Milwaukee Fire Hiring Process

[pedalinmedic]

I understand the Milwaukee fire department is starting a new hiring process, and I have a few questions.

What written test do they use?
What is the interview format (chiefs board or a video taped)?
Academy length?

And for some general questions:

Staffing levels for Engine, Truck and Rescue?
Number of personal?
Number of firehouses?

[pedalinmedic]

Ok in an effort not to appear to lazy I located the following info.

The City covers 96.5 sq. mi. and a population of over 560,000.

36 fire houses housing 37 Engines , 16 Trucks, 12 medics, within 5 Battalions Approx. 800 ffs.

[MTGillinois]

I've writtne NUMEROUS e-mails to various members of the FD itself, as well as members of the civil service board. There aren't any answers for the kinds of questions your asking in regards to the testing process, frankly because they haven't decided yet. NFSI is the test... which there is NO information about... Fly by night operations should insue.

[eaglesrule1024]

check this out it will definitely help

http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=97314

[pedalinmedic]

ok, so heres a question that i cannot find the answer out too... how does Milwaukee Fire do EMS?? are new recruits required to ride the medic or are the ems personel hired from a different pool??

[jasper45]

ok, so heres a question that i cannot find the answer out too... how does Milwaukee Fire do EMS?? are new recruits required to ride the medic or are the ems personel hired from a different pool??


All engine and truck companies first respond, and are the primary EMS providers in the city. The city utilizes four private companies for BLS transport, and some first response. The department places about 40,000 annual calls directly to the privates.
All ALS is handled by the department, which operates as a part of the county system. There are twelve paramedic units in the city, and on any given day twenty to twenty-five ALS engines, out of thirty-seven engine companies.
The department runs a tiered system, ranging from just a private-only response, (lowest priority) to an engine/truck company and paramdic unit.



Paramedic is somewhat of a 'promoted' position, as there is competition for the spots, and more money.
There are about 200 paramedics in the city, out of about 1100 uniformed.

New hires do not ride paramedic uits, and if you have your paramedic license already, that means nothing as well.
You are required to maintain your State of Wisconsin EMT license during employment, and new hires could be mandated into the paramedic program, if there aren't enough volunteers.

[pedalinmedic]

according to the city website:

"The second part of the selection process consists of a ten week EMT training course provided at no cost by the Milwaukee Fire Department to the top ranked individuals on the eligible list."

is this mandatory or will you be considered exempt if you already hold a WI EMT cert.???

[detroitfire1552]

It is up to you to believe me but recruits with EMT already will not have to attend that portion of the training... I read it somewhere on the MIL WC site

[evanbell]

I just got my letter to take the test Tuesday, August 12th. My question is, should I even bother with this test? I'm from Virginia so it's going to cost me an arm and a leg to get a flight this late. I don't have veteran or resident preference and am a white male. Honest opinions? I really just don't want to spend 400 dollars on a plane ticket to place 300th or something because 150 people jump me due to living in the city.

[jasper45]

If it were me, I would take the exam, but that also depends on how badly you want to move in order to get a job.

The information that is out there is that they are going to advance a certain number of people in the process, based entirely on your written test score. Any bonus points, i.e. education, city residency, military and so on, will only be added to a score at the very end of the process.

What this means, is that the higher your written test score, the better off you will be, at least initially. It could be that no "city" people score high enough to advance.
Right now they're talking about advancing the 300-500 highest written scores. The number is going to vary based on cost, and total money allotted for the exam.

There are a tremendous amount of vacancies right now, even with the upcoming cuts. If a person is able to make it past the written exam, their odds of being able to earn a job will increase dramatically.

Look at it like this, if you don't take the test, you absolutely will not get hired. The written test is shaping up to be the fairest test that has been administered in some time.

[evanbell]

Jasper, just out of curiosity are you on with MFD or is this just what you have heard through the grapevine? I'm not calling you out on what you are saying, just simply trying to see what your sources are.

[evanbell]

nevermind, i answered my own question seeing that you are a member of local 215. that's all good to know. i guess i will see what i can manage to do regarding getting tickets there to test

[GWBJR1]

I just got my letter to take the test Tuesday, August 12th. My question is, should I even bother with this test? I'm from Virginia so it's going to cost me an arm and a leg to get a flight this late. I don't have veteran or resident preference and am a white male. Honest opinions? I really just don't want to spend 400 dollars on a plane ticket to place 300th or something because 150 people jump me due to living in the city.

Looks like someone who should not be in the Fire Service, Milwaukee has no minority points, you have not tested and are playing the race card in your question. A lot of people would like to not have the competition. Why don't you accomodate them?

[evanbell]

Looks like someone who should not be in the Fire Service, Milwaukee has no minority points, you have not tested and are playing the race card in your question. A lot of people would like to not have the competition. Why don't you accomodate them?

I am not playing the race card at all dude. I was also not implying that MFD had minority points . I was simply trying to get some insight. Around me, if you are a white male without your EMT-I or EMT-P your chances of getting a job are slim. That doesn't keep me from testing. What I had read on the other forum which includes madison didn't sound promising about the department hiring many people so I was just asking for insight. No need to be paltry.

[pedalinmedic]

FACT: you cant get the job unless you test.... TAKE THE FREAKING TEST, whats 400 bucks for the career of a lifetime.

dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to be a *****, but it is what it is.

also where in va are you?

[evanbell]

FACT: you cant get the job unless you test.... TAKE THE FREAKING TEST, whats 400 bucks for the career of a lifetime.

dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to be a *****, but it is what it is.

also where in va are you?

good point...that's why i'm flying in the monday before the test and camping out overnight at the airport to save some money. i'm in arlington...volly in prince william

[clark918]

jasper... I have a question. I will be graduating with my Fire Science degree in December of this year. Because you said that the points will not be added on until the end, do you think that I might be able to get them if I make it that far? I figure that by the time the final eligibility list is out, it will be 2009 since big cities move pretty slow with things because of all of the applicants.

Also, any word on if they will be taking CPAT certs? Or will they make you take it again? Or maybe even using their own PAT like in the past? Thanks.

[jasper45]

I will be graduating with my Fire Science degree in December of this year.

I would call the commission by phone, or go down to the office and ask in person.
When I was hired they established a cutoff date for education points to count. The way they run around here, the list probably will not be established and presented for approval until November/December/January. However, that is just a guess on my part.

The information that I have is from sources I consider to be good and sound, but it is still "rumor" only. The commission is the only place to get true facts.
In the past, all a candidate has had to do was ask and they would tell you whether your diploma would be be eligible.



Also, any word on if they will be taking CPAT certs? Or will they make you take it again? Or maybe even using their own PAT like in the past? Thanks.

It's going to be CPAT, and the word is they are going to make you take the exam, regardless if you have taken it elsewhere.

[evanbell]

If anyone else is flying in Monday night and wants to camp out with me at the airport and then catch the bus over early in the AM on Tuesday, then hit me up with a pm. The more the merrier!

[Lakerpyro318]

I didnt know that they announced the test day. What is the date of the test going to be.

[evanbell]

the form i got in the mail yesterday says the test is on august 12, registration from 8-845am

[pedalinmedic]

i know some guys that are testing on the 11th. but mine is also on the 12th.

by the looks of the building its not that big. So i would imagine that there will be multiple days of testing

[jccrabby3084]

FACT: you cant get the job unless you test.... TAKE THE FREAKING TEST, whats 400 bucks for the career of a lifetime.

While this is true, I can understand where evanbell is coming from. When testing, the cost factors do add up. Think about this a bit, $400 to fly in to take the written test, then if pass, you fly in again to do the physical agility, then you have to fly in again for the BPAD. Factor in meals, hotel, ground transportation and so forth and testing can truly add up...much more than what it takes to make it for the original written test. Sure can be a lot of money to spend where you may or may not get hired.

He asked about his chances, and I don't see that as out of line and Jasper's post hints at possible move ups for those who score high on the written test, which IMO is an incentive to test. However, residents do get points and it is not out of line to gauge one's chances.

I have tested for numerous places before getting hired and applied to countless more that I never tested for because I could not afford to do so. This is the reality of the world we live in today. In a sense I could spend say $2000 to go through the entire hiring process for say Phoenix Fire, only to get placed on the list and not get hired. However, I could save that money and test for several departments close to me and improve my odds of getting hired.

Career of a lifetime or not, these decisions and choices have to be made. The question is, is it worth it financially to take the risk on a lone dept, vs several others closer to one's home?

[evanbell]

At least somebody sees where I'm coming from...especially during these times of increased gas cost and air fare! It does add up...quickly, but i'll be there.

[pedalinmedic]

At least somebody sees where I'm coming from...especially during these times of increased gas cost and air fare! It does add up...quickly, but i'll be there.

I do see where you are coming from. Before I decided to chase a girl to the outside and get married and I lived in Alaska. So, I do understand the cost associated with traveling/testing. I just drank a few less beers and ate ALOT more cup-o-noodles.:)

My point was this. Sure your chances may be slim for MFD...but you have zero chance without testing. I "Could have", "should have" or "would have", dont have near the effect as "I did".

Ill see you there and should you desire I will buy you a drink! (after the test that is).

[thanojon]

If anyone is from northwest Indiana (or near Fort Wayne, South Bend, Elkhart) and would be interested in car pooling or something to that affect let me know.

[thanojon]

If I havn't received anything in the mail regarding testing should I call them or wait a bit? Is there anyone else yet who hasn't received a notice yet? I did apply too.

[evanbell]

Does anyone have any information on the format of the test? I/O, CWH? If not, any ideas on what they test on?

[LittleNail]

Does anyone have any information on the format of the test? I/O, CWH? If not, any ideas on what they test on?

I think it is the I/O Solutions.

[pedalinmedic]

Any new news regarding MFD budget for 2009?

Jasper, can you contact me via email: broark@southbendin.gov

[detroitfire1552]

I am Leaving Detroit tonight at midnight and driving to Milwaukee anyone on the way that wants to car pool Call me ASAP 313 7327377 JERRY

[LittleNail]

i know some guys that are testing on the 11th. but mine is also on the 12th.

by the looks of the building its not that big. So i would imagine that there will be multiple days of testing

I called the recruit information hotline and it says there are 6 different testing sessions. Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday at 8:45am and 1:00pm.

[evanbell]

Wow...I've never heard of that many.

[evanbell]

How's everyone think they did on the test so far? From my count I don't see how there is any way more than 5000 people are testing. Unless there was more than one room testing at a time.

There were 10 tables per row, 18 people per table=180 people per row, 3 rows=540 per test (MAX, the 8:45am test was only 2/3s full). There's two tests per day 1080 people test per day and there's only three test dates. Even if they crammed more people into the tests on some times that doesn't even equal 4000...

[MTGillinois]

I miss-posted this...

[jsin925]

How's everyone think they did on the test so far?

some of the math threw me for a loop (it's been a long time since i've done math, other than adding up prices at a store), but i think i did pretty well on the rest. the psych questions at the the end were a bit confusing. maybe i missed it, but did it define stress? what one person considers stress might not be what the next person thinks is stressful. either way, i just answered honestly. oh well, i did the best i could. at least i get the extra resident points, but i'm not holding my breath. there's always next time (if i'm not too old).

[Hydrashock]

It wasn't that bad, I've taken harder ones.
Had about 45 mins left so I spent 10 more mins going over the math questions.
I’ll be at the CPAT. Good luck to you guys.

[TangoTango]

some of the math threw me for a loop (it's been a long time since i've done math, other than adding up prices at a store), but i think i did pretty well on the rest. the psych questions at the the end were a bit confusing. maybe i missed it, but did it define stress? what one person considers stress might not be what the next person thinks is stressful. either way, i just answered honestly. oh well, i did the best i could. at least i get the extra resident points, but i'm not holding my breath. there's always next time (if i'm not too old).

I think I did pretty well. The sample exam I took online for $10 had identical questions (with different numbers and slightly different situations), so it was easy seeing the same types of questions. I also messed up a couple math questions, I'm sure. Who does actual math when you have a calculator handy?

The personality test was kind of tricky. You obviously had to answer similar questions similarly. I think they're trying to weed out people who are already stressed out or feel they don't handle stress well...and those who have high anxiety over dangerous situations and the general outlook of the world. I was really stumped on the "the world is a dangerous place" questions. Yes, in fact, I do believe that the world is basically a dangerous place, and you should always "be careful," but if I answer "Agree/Strongly Agree", does that somehow not make me a good candidate for EMS/FF career?

I heard some say this was a "Pass/Fail" exam. I heard some say this is not a Pass/Fail and you are placed on the eligibility list according to your numerical score on the written exam. So, say a guy with residency preference points scored an 86 on the written exam...and they give 10 pref points for residency...does that mean his score is increased to 96? How does that work?

Any ideas?

[Irishfireman817]

I was told that out of over 10,000 people that applied, they only invited 6,000. And out of those 6,000, only 4,000 people even showed up. I guess odds keep getting better.

[pedalinmedic]

5800 tested.

[Japhro84]

5800 tested.

Where'd u get that number (just out of curiosity)?

Did any one else find this test to be almost exactly the same as the practice test in the enhanced study guide? I even had a few questions that were exactly the same just with different numbers or different names. I feel pretty good about it. We'll see though! They say that the personality section can really make or break your total score, BIGTIME! I don't know how true that is. But, Good Luck guys!

[jsin925]

Where'd u get that number (just out of curiosity)?

Did any one else find this test to be almost exactly the same as the practice test in the enhanced study guide? I even had a few questions that were exactly the same just with different numbers or different names. I feel pretty good about it. We'll see though! They say that the personality section can really make or break your total score, BIGTIME! I don't know how true that is. But, Good Luck guys!

i knew i should have taken the practice test. instead, i got a book from the library and studied a bunch of stuff that wasn't even on the test.

how do they score the personality section? are they looking for deception? it all seems subjective to me, and hard to really get a sense of someone's personality. some of the questions i would either agree or disagree with given the exact circumstances. like, do i usually pretend to be friendly with people when i don't want to be? what do they mean by usually? in a professional scenario or personal. i've worked retail and i was usually friendly when i didn't want to be, but on the street i'm usually going to tell you how i feel. the questions seemed vague to me.

[evanbell]

The practice test was only about 15 questions long...not extremely helpful quite honestly. I bought a study guide...about 300 pages long and there were more questions directly from that book than I had expected. At least 15 questions from this written were pulled directly out of my study guide.

[pedalinmedic]

I got that number (5800) from two different MFD employees. One was the Lt. with the bullhorn on day 2 of testing and another was a Lt. at 13 Engine.

[EgressOne]

5800 people took the test....Ive also heard that only 300-500 people will be moving on to take the CPAT!!!...Remember guys...extra points dont mean anything until the very END of the process with everything combined, so as long as you do your best on everything else you could very well beat out the people who do have extra points!!!

[MTGillinois]

I've also heard that they will only be moving 300 people past the written exam.

[Japhro84]

The practice test was only about 15 questions long...not extremely helpful quite honestly. I bought a study guide...about 300 pages long and there were more questions directly from that book than I had expected. At least 15 questions from this written were pulled directly out of my study guide.

The one that came with the Enhanced study guide had 100 very similar questions on it. VERY HELPFUL!

i knew i should have taken the practice test. instead, i got a book from the library and studied a bunch of stuff that wasn't even on the test.

how do they score the personality section? are they looking for deception? it all seems subjective to me, and hard to really get a sense of someone's personality. some of the questions i would either agree or disagree with given the exact circumstances. like, do i usually pretend to be friendly with people when i don't want to be? what do they mean by usually? in a professional scenario or personal. i've worked retail and i was usually friendly when i didn't want to be, but on the street i'm usually going to tell you how i feel. the questions seemed vague to me.

I am not too sure about how they exactly score it. I have heard that each department can "tweak" that section to there own liking. I just made sure that I was honest and that my answers to certain questions were the same as the ones that were "worded" differently.

I know what you mean. The wording on a lot of those is how they try and trick you! I have never taken this test for a department. I bought the Don McNea package with the psychological prep guide and I believe it helped to open my eyes a little more.

[Kobe1212]

When the CPAT is?

[jsin925]

Japhro84:
this is off topic, but what's up with that pic?

[TangoTango]

Do any of you who sat for the Milwaukee exam have an Associates or Bachelor's degree in Fire Science/Tech?

I have a Bachelors degree, but not in Fire.

PS-Expect a letter in the mail with your result by 9/5.

[Japhro84]

Japhro84:
this is off topic, but what's up with that pic?

It's a pic someone sent me a while ago as a joke.. I don't think I would be passing a CPAT at that size if that was me... HAHA!

[evanbell]

Tango, I was wondering the same thing. I have a four year degree from a State University but not in Fire Science. I was wondering if they still give bonus points for that too...

[jsin925]

Tango, I was wondering the same thing. I have a four year degree from a State University but not in Fire Science. I was wondering if they still give bonus points for that too...

i believe the bonus points are only for a degree in fire science. i hope i'm wrong, because i have a degree too in something else, but i believe it only counts towards an associate or bachelors in fire science.

[TangoTango]

i believe the bonus points are only for a degree in fire science. i hope i'm wrong, because i have a degree too in something else, but i believe it only counts towards an associate or bachelors in fire science.

The education pref points are given only to those with an AA or BS in Fire Science. I was just wondering if most of you guys had Fire degrees...doesn't sound like it! Glad I'm not the only one.

[thanojon]

anybody have any idea when the letters will be sent out?

[MTGillinois]

Letters will be sent on 9/5/08
Waiting game...

[TangoTango]

I think I did pretty well. The sample exam I took online for $10 had identical questions (with different numbers and slightly different situations), so it was easy seeing the same types of questions. I also messed up a couple math questions, I'm sure. Who does actual math when you have a calculator handy?

The personality test was kind of tricky. You obviously had to answer similar questions similarly. I think they're trying to weed out people who are already stressed out or feel they don't handle stress well...and those who have high anxiety over dangerous situations and the general outlook of the world. I was really stumped on the "the world is a dangerous place" questions. Yes, in fact, I do believe that the world is basically a dangerous place, and you should always "be careful," but if I answer "Agree/Strongly Agree", does that somehow not make me a good candidate for EMS/FF career?

I heard some say this was a "Pass/Fail" exam. I heard some say this is not a Pass/Fail and you are placed on the eligibility list according to your numerical score on the written exam. So, say a guy with residency preference points scored an 86 on the written exam...and they give 10 pref points for residency...does that mean his score is increased to 96? How does that work?

Any ideas?

[jasper45]

I heard some say this was a "Pass/Fail" exam. I heard some say this is not a Pass/Fail and you are placed on the eligibility list according to your numerical score on the written exam. So, say a guy with residency preference points scored an 86 on the written exam...and they give 10 pref points for residency...does that mean his score is increased to 96? How does that work?



No. The preference points, be they residency, veterans, or education are added on to the final score at the end of the process, following the physical agility, written and interview. So in the end, if your cumulative score is 94, and have residency points, your final score would be 99.
Three points are added for an AAS, five points for a BS, five points for residency, and ten points for veterans. The most points you may accumulate are ten.

The written is not pass/fail. What a person scores on the written will be the sole decider on whether they advance in the process. The word is that the top 300 written scores will be moved on in the process.
The CPAT will be pass/fail, however.

Hope that made some sense.

[TangoTango]

No. The preference points, be they residency, veterans, or education are added on to the final score at the end of the process, following the physical agility, written and interview. So in the end, if your cumulative score is 94, and have residency points, your final score would be 99.
Three points are added for an AAS, five points for a BS, five points for residency, and ten points for veterans. The most points you may accumulate are ten.

The written is not pass/fail. What a person scores on the written will be the sole decider on whether they advance in the process. The word is that the top 300 written scores will be moved on in the process.
The CPAT will be pass/fail, however.

Hope that made some sense.

It did make sense. Thanks for sharing the info re the pref points. They're only taking 5% of the people who tested. What a cut that is! I wish I would've MASTERED the written; I don't qualify for any preference points if I make it that far. Then again, I may have scored way better than someone with 10 pref points up their sleeve going in. Knowing I missed at least a few of the cognitive questions bothers me now. Oh well...we'll wait and see I suppose.

[badax3]

Here's just a thought on the Milwaukee process; The last list was good for almost 5 years. Im not sure how many classes they took on in those five years but if they did one a year with about 30 or 35 people,that would be in the area of 150 new hires. If you get past the written and past the cpat and make it on the list, even if your not in the first class you'll probably be hired on a year or two later. With that said good luck everyone.

[novinska]

Just out of curiosity I was wondering if anyone knew in regards to the preference points what constitutes be able to earn veterans preference point? Is there a certain amount of time that is needed to have been served on a paid department in order to earn them?

[evanbell]

Veterans points are for military vets...not paid department vets

[Dan619]

Results are out, they started emailing folks! Good luck everyone!

[clark918]

Results are out! They emailed them to me. I'm moving on to the CPAT. Gives practice dates, but no actual test time or date. Says it will be in early November. Also if you have a CPAT after 2/4/08, you can use that.

[TangoTango]

Results are out! They emailed them to me. I'm moving on to the CPAT. Gives practice dates, but no actual test time or date. Says it will be in early November. Also if you have a CPAT after 2/4/08, you can use that.

Congrats.
I guess I've already been 'weeded out'. Didn't get an email from them. I assume they'll be notifying those not moving on via snail mail.

[clark918]

Congrats.
I guess I've already been 'weeded out'. Didn't get an email from them. I assume they'll be notifying those not moving on via snail mail.

Did you even include an email though? I don't think it was required. I'm sure everyone is going to get a letter via snail mail. Then those that gave an email just get to find out quicker. Remember there's also 5700 people that they need to get a hold of. My last name starts with "C" which could also be why I got mine earlier.

[MTGillinois]

Congrats.
I didn't get an e-mail yet either (As I'm sure there are, obviously, many of us who didn't). I can't remember if I included my e-mail or not, so I'll be watching the mail very carefully for my letter. Hopefully it's the good one.

[evanbell]

Same here...can't remember if I put an email down or not. Has anyone else gotten an email yet? There has to be someone else on here that's gotten one I'd think. I've never heard of sending email results...that's a different way to do it. Not sure why more departments wouldn't use it.

When and where did you write your email address?

[clark918]

I think we may have put it down during the written? Or maybe it was on the app? Not sure. I've gotten results from Orange County, CA like this before, but they ONLY sent things out by email so it was different. I haven't talked to anyone yet that has gotten an email besides myself. Don't get discouraged though. They should be sending letters to everyone anyway regardless. So it may just take awhile.

[clark918]

I just got my hard copy by US mail today. Same thing as my email though.

[evanbell]

Has anyone else gotten a letter yet?

[MTGillinois]

I got my "You didn't make it" letter.

Good luck guys.

[clark918]

Did that letter come just today or the day before? When I got mine last week I only found two others that got one and they both passed as well. Sorry to hear that your not moving on though.

Anyone else move on? I'm mailing in my CPAT tomorrow. So if that goes fine then I've got awhile before anything happens. I'm guessing interviews will be Dec/Jan.

jasper... do you know when the deadline would be to get extra points? I'll have my AS in Fire Protection Technician after this semester ends in December. Not sure if I would be able to use that. Also, do you know how long you have to be a resident of Milwaukee for? I'll probably just give them a call, btu figured that I would ask here first.

Also, I was talking to a teacher of mine who is an retired Battalion Chief for MFD. He stated that MFD might move to oral interviews instead of the BPAD. Any word on this lately? Thanks.

[TangoTango]

[QUOTE=clark918;984792]Did that letter come just today or the day before? When I got mine last week I only found two others that got one and they both passed as well. Sorry to hear that your not moving on though.

Anyone else move on? I'm mailing in my CPAT tomorrow. So if that goes fine then I've got awhile before anything happens. I'm guessing interviews will be Dec/Jan.

QUOTE]

Of the other 2 ppl that passed with you, did they also get an email stating that? I haven't gotten an email yet. I'm sure I would've listed it. I'm expecting the 'not moving on' letter in my mailbox today. Damn.

The job announcement stated that education/resident preference points only counted if you had the degree or were a bona fide resident as of the application deadline, which was 8/1, I believe.

[evanbell]

[QUOTE=clark918;984792]Did that letter come just today or the day before? When I got mine last week I only found two others that got one and they both passed as well. Sorry to hear that your not moving on though.

Anyone else move on? I'm mailing in my CPAT tomorrow. So if that goes fine then I've got awhile before anything happens. I'm guessing interviews will be Dec/Jan.

QUOTE]

Of the other 2 ppl that passed with you, did they also get an email stating that? I haven't gotten an email yet. I'm sure I would've listed it. I'm expecting the 'not moving on' letter in my mailbox today. Damn.

The job announcement stated that education/resident preference points only counted if you had the degree or were a bona fide resident as of the application deadline, which was 8/1, I believe.

Same here...expecting the not moving on letter sometime today or tomorrow...I wish they'd at least list your ranking position so I'd have an idea how I did with DCFD

[clark918]

Tango... 1 guy got an email. The other I didn't talk to. I just heard from another firefighter while we were at a fire yesterday about it.

Evan... I agree about DC. I hope we get those this week.

[evanbell]

don't get me wrong...i'd love a job in dc but if i were in the running for both milwaukee and dc and offered a job both places i'd take milwaukee in a heartbeat. cost of living on average is 75% less in milwaukee than what it is here in dc...

[MTGillinois]

To be honest, I mailed the FPC and they mailed me back. I didn't get my hard mailer yet.

[clark918]

don't get me wrong...i'd love a job in dc but if i were in the running for both milwaukee and dc and offered a job both places i'd take milwaukee in a heartbeat. cost of living on average is 75% less in milwaukee than what it is here in dc...

Yea I agree that's a huge factor. A very nice one bedroom in downtown Milwaukee is well under 1k/month. DC it seems to be well over 1k just for a studio in maybe a not so good place. However, you do get paid more in DC and you don't have to live in the city like you do with Milwaukee.

I also like the higher call volume in DC, as well as the more exciting city. However, as I get older, I may not that higher call volume. Also, if you get stationed in certain areas of Milwaukee, you can be just as busy. I also have most of my family in the Milwaukee area, and I would never have to ride the ambulance.

In my opinion, they are both outstanding fire departments. They both have their pros and cons. I'd just have to find out what's right for me. However, that's only if I was offered both jobs. I'm still a long way from that.

[jasper45]

jasper... do you know when the deadline would be to get extra points? I'll have my AS in Fire Protection Technician after this semester ends in December. Not sure if I would be able to use that. Also, do you know how long you have to be a resident of Milwaukee for?

Clarke, I don't know any dates or other factual information. Call the fire and police commission and ask them when the cut off will be for your points.
When I went thru the process, they established a cutoff date to be eligible.
Typically they will allow a date that is close to the semester end, so students who are soon to graduate may use their points.

They should have a date for you, or they will establish one soon. They may not have an exact date set as of yet.

I don't believe that there is any length of time required for residency, as I think the same rule will be used to define residency as is used for us. Having your drivers license with a city address, bills with an address, or information consistent with "an established residence". Basically, it's up to the powers that be to determine if you qualify, but those are some of the items they use.

Again, give them a call and ask specifically. The last thing you want is to be fraudulent.






Also, I was talking to a teacher of mine who is an retired Battalion Chief for MFD. He stated that MFD might move to oral interviews instead of the BPAD. Any word on this lately? Thanks.

That is a rumor that is out there, and it's a rumor I think carries some weight.

[jasper45]

I also like the higher call volume in DC, as well as the more exciting city. However, as I get older, I may not that higher call volume. Also, if you get stationed in certain areas of Milwaukee, you can be just as busy. I also have most of my family in the Milwaukee area, and I would never have to ride the ambulance.


Clark,

We had several members of DCFD stay in my engine house for the Harly 100th five years ago, and then again over this past weekend for the 105th.
We talked a lot and compared stories, as all firemen do. We also both bitched about our jobs, and listened to each other.

The biggest difference between here and there, is that we toss close to 50,000 calls a year to the private ambulances, and the guys from DC wished that's what they did.
Where they use fire department ambulances and their fire companies for all 911 originated calls, we hand over a good number of them to the privates, based on our triage system.
I'm not slamming them or saying one place is better than the other, but don't use the run volume as a sole decider.

There are advantages to DC. The nations capital is a huge draw, that environment is very cool. They are a part of FEMA's USAR program, something that we never will be here. DC will always be a major player in business, commerce, and just about everything else, Milwaukee never will.

If you choose to start a family, it will be a burden on you to raise your family in the city. The cost of living is lower here, but the tax rate is much higher. You will not be able to send your kids to public schools, unless you hate your kids, and you will be stuck living with crime.
Crime is a significant issue here, and it is getting worse, at least for the foreseeable future.

There are very busy fire companies here, and there are very slow. We have special teams, paramedics, and promotional opportunities, just like DC.
The pension is in fantastic shape. We have a very good plan in place that will be there when you retire, as it is at a 150% funding right now.

[clark918]

Thanks for the reply jasper.

I completely forgot that the run total is lower because you guys don't run as many medical calls as other places since you don't have ambulances. I'm not a huge fan of EMS so this would be perfect.

The reason I ask about the residency points is that I would be willing to move to Milwaukee right now if it would work. With only about 300 people left in the process, and most likely less after the CPAT, I figure that if the list is good for 4 years again, I may have a good shot. However, I don't want to make the move if it won't help because that would mean quitting my job with a great FD in Milwaukee County that requires my to be at call backs within 20 minutes.

As fun as DC is though, I'm starting to like Milwaukee more and more. The one thing I absolutely hate is the cold weather. DC is warmer, but not by much. Then July and August hit and I hear it is terrible there. Here in Milwaukee, I think we had one of the best summers in years.

The MPS system is terrible. I definitely agree on that. I've heard the some schools like Rufus King are okay, but its still located in a pretty bad area of town. There's always private schools or the suburbs though. I went to Oak Creek and had a TON of Milwaukee kids bussed over.

Also, do they usually throw you into a busy fire house after graduation from the academy? Someone told me that it's usually like that and after 10 years, you can usually pick where you want to go. Also how do they pick whether you are on a truck or engine? I have a friend who got placed on the truck right away out of the academy.

I hope I don't sound ****y. I just want to be prepared and have as much information about the job as possible in case I am lucky enough to get an offer. Thanks again!

[Cream7City]

so i got anxious waiting for my scores and whether i've been accepted, and it seems like some have already received their acceptance emails, and/or their acceptance or rejection letters. i suppose, from the looks of it, that if i didnt receive an acceptance through email, i should be expecting a rejection letter....but why are they taking so freakin' long to just let me know i didn't make it? seriously, i cannot be the last to know, right? does anyone know of another way to find out faster if you've made the cut, e.g., is there someone to call with this type of question?

[Cream7City]

where did my post go? btw, in case it's not posted: is there another way, a quicker way, of finding out if i've been accepted or rejected? i didn't receive an email, so i guess i'm rejected, but why are they taking so long? surely they don't want me to be the last to know, right?

[fyrfyter414]

i haven't recieved anything either.

[clark918]

I called about residency in case anyone else is wondering. You needed to be there by the application deadline. As far as education, they do not know yet, but the told me December will most likely be too late.

I asked when interviews were planned because I do not have to take the CPAT. They said sometime in November. So this thing is moving pretty quick for a big city. CPAT and interviews all in one month.

Good luck!

[TangoTango]

so i got anxious waiting for my scores and whether i've been accepted, and it seems like some have already received their acceptance emails, and/or their acceptance or rejection letters. i suppose, from the looks of it, that if i didnt receive an acceptance through email, i should be expecting a rejection letter....but why are they taking so freakin' long to just let me know i didn't make it? seriously, i cannot be the last to know, right? does anyone know of another way to find out faster if you've made the cut, e.g., is there someone to call with this type of question?

I'm in the same boat as you...dreading the trip to my mailbox everyday. No email = probably not moving forward. I know this is an assumption, but one I'm willing to take at this point. They indicate on their voicemail that all candidates would be notified by mail on or before 9/5 so they still have a day or two.

Another poster in this thread yesterday said he/she contacted the FPC directly (before receiving a hard copy) to find out if they are moving forward and the FPC already knew and told them they weren't moving on.

I'm stymied how I didn't "pass" the test or "make the cut." It makes me feel really, really, ignorant. I won't get into my education here, but unless a lot of the situational questions were "trickier" than I thought and I rushed to what I thought was the correct answer, and/or I really bombed the personality section, I can't help to wonder if there are other demographical factors that are playing a role in their selection process. Perhaps there is a reason they're not releasing numerical scores to either those passing or failing.

[EgressOne]

Whoa guy calm down. Do you really think that your chances are that good, why dont you try picking some numbers for the lottery. You have about the same odds. Did you not realize that "everyone" wants to work for a big city like Milwaukee, and that thousands of people were gonna apply thinking that they were the "best" for the position. Granted I wish the best of luck for you within the next two days of getting an acceptance letter, but come to reality you have a better chance of applying at smaller departments, that have only maybe 1000 people apply, and getting depressed cuz you didnt get accepted to the next phase. But remember Milwaukee had 5900 people apply and they are only moving 300 on. So lets say you had to have a passing score of 80% to even be eligible to move on....I gurantee more than 2000 people if not even more were "eligible" but its still a lottery, dont get so down on yourself. Keep your head up and stay positive!!!!!

[TangoTango]

Whoa guy calm down. Do you really think that your chances are that good, why dont you try picking some numbers for the lottery. You have about the same odds. Did you not realize that "everyone" wants to work for a big city like Milwaukee, and that thousands of people were gonna apply thinking that they were the "best" for the position. Granted I wish the best of luck for you within the next two days of getting an acceptance letter, but come to reality you have a better chance of applying at smaller departments, that have only maybe 1000 people apply, and getting depressed cuz you didnt get accepted to the next phase. But remember Milwaukee had 5900 people apply and they are only moving 300 on. So lets say you had to have a passing score of 80% to even be eligible to move on....I gurantee more than 2000 people if not even more were "eligible" but its still a lottery, dont get so down on yourself. Keep your head up and stay positive!!!!!

haha. I'm not that depressed about it! I knew going in it was a long-shot. I just thought I aced the thing.

[Cream7City]

i felt i aced the thing too! and i'm not being sarcastic here. that coupled with the fact that, with the exception of preference points for having an associated or bachelors degree in fire science, i fell into every other category that received preference points. i had a source that said they were openly recruiting a very specific demographic this time around, and the last i heared there were only three of us interested in becoming a ff for milwaukee. in terms of preference points and test scores on the written section, i would like to believe i rank quite high. qualifications-wise, i'm sure there are others way, way more qualified. i'm expecting a rejection letter anyway. congrats on those moving on.

[jasper45]

Also, do they usually throw you into a busy fire house after graduation from the academy? Someone told me that it's usually like that and after 10 years, you can usually pick where you want to go. Also how do they pick whether you are on a truck or engine? I have a friend who got placed on the truck right away out of the academy.


There is no real formula for where they put people right out of recruit school. They do try to keep the cubs in busier houses, but it also is dependent on where the vacancies are and how many are graduating the school.
I've been told by some bosses who have taught at the school, that they try to fit the needs of the department. Some stronger guys, with a great work ethic have been sent to slower spots available at the time, mostly due to their being able to work and stay busy on their own. Others get placed because of the boss on the shift where they're going; some cubs need more supervision that others do, some need less. Sometimes, guys who are already EMT's, with experience will be placed in busier engines, because they have more of a clue with EMS.


For the rest of the department, companies and shift are picked by seniority, and is covered by our CBA.

[clark918]

Thanks jasper. Have you guys always put the applicants through EMT BEFORE the background check, physical and psych? I'm already a certified EMT for WI so I'm guessing I wouldn't have to take the class if I made it that far. It would just suck to have to wait 10 weeks while people go through the EMT class before you find out if you are going to get the job or not.

[TangoTango]

[QUOTE=Cream7City;985271] and the last i heared there were only three of us interested in becoming a ff for milwaukee. QUOTE]

Now you've really peaked my curiousity. What demographic would that be?

[jasper45]

Have you guys always put the applicants through EMT BEFORE the background check, physical and psych?


No. This is the first time they have done anything like this. Being an EMT has been a condition of employment since 1986. Since then, the course has been included as a part of recruit training, which in turn extended the length of the school.
The goal now was to require people to have that part done on their own, so that it could be removed from the academy, thus shortening the length of the school, thereby reducing the cost of running a class.

This is all new ground for the city and department, so you'll have to tell us how badly they screw it up.

[clark918]

No. This is the first time they have done anything like this. Being an EMT has been a condition of employment since 1986. Since then, the course has been included as a part of recruit training, which in turn extended the length of the school.
The goal now was to require people to have that part done on their own, so that it could be removed from the academy, thus shortening the length of the school, thereby reducing the cost of running a class.

This is all new ground for the city and department, so you'll have to tell us how badly they screw it up.

Haha will do. It sounds okay since it would make the academy faster, but I don't think they are putting it in at the right point. They will put people through 10 weeks of EMT and then the people may fail the background or medical. Would make more sense to be before the hire date. Or maybe after the academy. If it was after the academy, those with EMT already completed can start their shifts.

[MTGillinois]

For those of you who may be wondering... If you feel like you did well on the test, let me just say, as far as the NFSI goes the "Personality Profile" can be a VERY large decider in who moves on and who doesn't. I've talked to people who have taken this test before (not the Milwaukee Test, the NFSI) and they have said that it isn't uncommon for someone who misses 1 question on the whole test to get a 77%. So... if there are 105 questions and you answer 1 wrong you're looking at a 99% on the cognitive portion and then you end up 'losing' 22% worth of points on the personality profile. The needs of this test can be changed depending on the department according to the man who makes the test. You won't get any hard and fast numbers, because the test itself is being kept a secret by the I/O solutions people (they own the test format), but it's basically a way to weed out candidates to streamline testing. Don't feel bad... I was one of them. Just move to your next big city dept and keep testing.

Keep working hard and good luck to all involved.

[Cream7City]

so the mailman has come and gone for the day, and today being the fifth, i realize i won't learn of my status with the milwaukee fire dept today. anyone have a number i can call to find out my application status? you folks are correct that they intend to notify everyone by the fifth, right?

[Dan619]

Does anyone know the numbers, like how many applied, how many took the test, how many are advancing to the CPAT, how many to the interview portion? Just curios. And when do the bonus points (vet, degree, local) get applied? After the test or after the interview? Thanks!

"America was not built on fear. America was built on courage, on imagination and an unbeatable determination to do the job at hand" Harry S. Truman, Thirty Third President, United States of America

[TangoTango]

so the mailman has come and gone for the day, and today being the fifth, i realize i won't learn of my status with the milwaukee fire dept today. anyone have a number i can call to find out my application status? you folks are correct that they intend to notify everyone by the fifth, right?

414-286-FIRE

[evanbell]

414-286-FIRE

I called Friday and the woman was pretty short and rude with me but she said that all letters were to be MAILED by the 5th...

[thanojon]

If we aren't selected in moving forward with the process, will we at least be notified that we have not moved on? Or if we do not hear anything back are we to just assume we weren't selected? Thanks.

[EgressOne]

Well guys the anticipation is prolonged even more.....According to the hotline which was just updated today....they moved the date from 9/5 to 9/12...and they say that if you havent recieved a letter by 9/15 to call and leave a message. I am assuming that means everyone SHOULD get a letter, be it an acceptance or decline. That just makes 4 more days of a nerve wrecking wait...Good Luck to all...and remember if you havent recieved it by the 15th call 1-414-286-FIRE and leave a message at the end of the recording!!!!

[clark918]

That's a long time to be sending out letters. I don't see why it's taking them three weeks between the first and last letters. Has anyone else but me gotten theirs yet?

jasper... I was talking to a guy from Engine 12 today in class. He told me that you guys are trying to get two Heavy Rescues sometime soon. Sounds pretty cool. Are there currently any other special teams besides Dive and HazMat?(USAR or Swiftwater?)

[pedalinmedic]

well i recieved my letter...2 weeks ago. Looks like my wife mixed it up with some junk mail. i passed but it looks like things are going to improve here budgetwise,...which means no layoffs! yea! and since i am happy where i am, too old to do another rookie school I will most likely not continue on with the process.

Good luck to you all.

[TangoTango]

well i recieved my letter...2 weeks ago. Looks like my wife mixed it up with some junk mail. i passed but it looks like things are going to improve here budgetwise,...which means no layoffs! yea! and since i am happy where i am, too old to do another rookie school I will most likely not continue on with the process.

Good luck to you all.

Congrats on passing. Another case of a passing candidate receiving an early notification...strengthens my hypothesis.

[Cream7City]

there should be absolutely no reason why we all were not notified in a timely manner: how hard is it to tell people you're either accepted or rejected based on your exam scores? my guess why they're taking so long is that some of us, or rather the majority of us who've not heard back yet, are fringe applicants; we probably scored well enough to warrant consideration, but they're sifting through the hundreds, if not thousands, to see who would add the most to the department, in terms of intangibles.

seems credible right? otherwise, seriously, how hard would it be to inject our names into the computer and print out a few hundred more rejection letters?

[EgressOne]

What hypothesis is this.....?? Do you understand that the FPC had to first send all the tests (all 5900 of them) back to the testing agency, then the testing agency had to correct them all, granted it was scantron, whenever they chose to get around to it, then the testing agency had to send it back to Milwaukee FPC, then FPC had to randomally, who knows how, choose which tests they wanted to keep. (300 out of 5900). Then FPC has to send letters both acceptance and decline to the post office, then the post office had to sort and then mail out. Well all know the post office aint the quickest, it takes awhile. Demographically speaking yes, some will get theirs quicker than others but I dont think someone who moves on or doesnt move on will get their letter quicker or longer than another testee.

[FFTEX55]

I am waiting patiently for my letter. I am assuming it is bad news given the odds and I took an NSFI test once before for Erie and failed. I am kind of surprised I didn't get an e mail as they obviously have my e mail since my application was online.

[TangoTango]

What hypothesis is this.....?? Do you understand that the FPC had to first send all the tests (all 5900 of them) back to the testing agency, then the testing agency had to correct them all, granted it was scantron, whenever they chose to get around to it, then the testing agency had to send it back to Milwaukee FPC, then FPC had to randomally, who knows how, choose which tests they wanted to keep. (300 out of 5900). Then FPC has to send letters both acceptance and decline to the post office, then the post office had to sort and then mail out. Well all know the post office aint the quickest, it takes awhile. Demographically speaking yes, some will get theirs quicker than others but I dont think someone who moves on or doesnt move on will get their letter quicker or longer than another testee.

Well wait a second there, professor...IO solutions was on site so the FPC didn't have to send them anywhere.

Here's my hypothesis: I/O Solutions was asked by the FPC to notify those with passing criteria via e-mail asap so they have more time to prep for the CPAT. All of the criteria defined for "passing" candidates was done WAY before you or I sat for the exam. Nothing was sent back to the FPC for them to decide who they want to keep. That's why they contract with I/O Solutions...to avoid the overhead of facilitating such an exam.

To those of you that received "passing" e-mails...who sent the e-mail? MKE FPC or IO SOLUTIONS? I highly doubt someone is sitting there manually e-mailing all those who passed--from either place. Same for someone sitting there and licking 5900 envelopes at the FPC. At least I hope not--that's what computers are for.

[clark918]

My letter was from the FPC. However, if I had to guess, I would say that everyone that passed has already received their letter. There are a few reasons for this:

1. Everyone that I know that received a letter passed. No one got a failing notice yet.

2. I've never seen a FD take this long sending out passing letters.

3. They've already had the first CPAT orientation last Saturday. I don't think they would have it before people are notified about it.

[chosenone414]

Ihave heard from a reliable source that 350 people have been selected to move on. Some people have been notified but I am not sure if everybody has. There is also no special demographics in the selections. There are only 24 females moving on and 18 blacks moving on.

So you should keep the faith until you get a letter.

[TangoTango]

Ihave heard from a reliable source that 350 people have been selected to move on. Some people have been notified but I am not sure if everybody has. There is also no special demographics in the selections. There are only 24 females moving on and 18 blacks moving on.

So you should keep the faith until you get a letter.

Got my letter today. As expected, I'm not moving along. Although I passed the exam and was ranked at 438/3889, they're only moving the top 350 along now.

"While you passed the exam, your score wasn't high enough to be included in the first group of 350 moving forward...You will be notified if you are reached [sic] for further testing..."

I wonder if they'll find their 50 firefighters from those 350...?

Close, but no cigar!
Good luck to the rest of you.

[clark918]

I got another letter today. Similar to Tangos. So I'm guessing that the passing letters were sent out before since the letters now are different.(and because they already had CPAT practices) I'm currently ranked 48. So hopefully everything goes good with the interview in November. I've been working my *** off. Graduating with my AA in Fire Protection Technician in Dec, have a ton of certs, work at two Milw County FDs, and TA at the MATC fire academy. However, none of that really matters to MFD. I'm super excited though right now.

I talked to a friend that went to the CPAT practice last Saturday. Only 50 showed up which is surprising. He said by the end of the session only 20 were left. When they did full practice run-throughs, only 12 passed.

[SCSmith]

I've been working my *** off. Graduating with my AA in Fire Protection Technician in Dec, have a ton of certs, work at two Milw County FDs, and TA at the MATC fire academy.

Just curious, what all certs have you gotten?

[clark918]

FFI, FFII, EMT-B, HazMat-Tech, and Fire Inspector I are the bigger ones.

[SCSmith]

FFI, FFII, EMT-B, HazMat-Tech, and Fire Inspector I are the bigger ones.

Did your degree include classes that specifically prepared you for HazMat-Tech and Fire Inspector I? I'm taking an inspector class now. Was the practical or written tough to pass for that cert?

[FFTEX55]

I haven't even gotten my letter yet. I know I didn't move on obviously at this point. If what that letter the previous gentleman says is correct then only three thousand and some folks took the test? Is it 5900 as said earlier? I am confused.

[EgressOne]

Didnt pass.....and yes there were I/O Solution reps present...but they still have to send them out....no they did not already have a "clue" who they were hiring....3xxx some people out of the 5900 people passed the test....and only the top....not by random...350 people are moving on at this point....clark arent you still awaiting ur results from DC or no???

[FFTEX55]

Thank you for clearing that up EgressOne.

[clark918]

SCSmith... now with the new program, all of those certs are included. I was in the middle of it when they changed it all so it was kind of weird for me.

I took Fire Inspector last spring so it was the very first one with a state written and practical exam. The class was very easy, but I struggled on the state written. I passed, but barely. The practical was a mess. It was a piolet program so I don't think they failed anyone. I failed one station, but passed the second time. I actually failed the second time at first, but then after going over it with the examiner, he realized that his answer key was wrong and I was right. It should be a little better organized this year.

EgressOne... Yes, still waiting on DC. Hopefully in the next week or two I will hear something.

[jsin925]

"While you passed the exam, your score wasn't high enough to be included in the first group of 350 moving forward...You will be notified if you are reached [sic] for further testing..."

i received the same letter, but i ranked at 513. is this implying that there will be a second round, and if so, will it be the next 350 people (at least the next 200 or 163)? is it common not to find 50 eligible people out of 350? sucks not to make the first cut, but congrats to all who made it.

i wonder how much the personality test played on the scoring, and how accurate it is? nonetheless, there's always next time. one guy i know who made it to the CPAT is 37 or 38, so i got a few years left in me yet.

anyone going to the combat challenge this weekend? i'll be there.

[TangoTango]

is this implying that there will be a second round, and if so, will it be the next 350 people (at least the next 200 or 163)? is it common not to find 50 eligible people out of 350? sucks not to make the first cut, but congrats to all who made it.
.

Good questions. The letter kind of makes it sound like they *might* be calling on the next XXX number of people after the first round of 350. This is the first time I've applied for a FF position, so maybe someone else out there can provide better insight. With a test as simple as this was, I really can't see how they would only want to take the top 8% or whatever and "automatically" make them the best-qualified candidates. I mean what's the difference between someone scoring a 93% vs. a 90%? 1 question on the test or a different answer to a heavily-weighted personality question?

There will be some candidates that don't pass the CPAT, do poorly on the interviews, or their situation simply changed and they no longer want to apply. I'm just glad they provided information regarding to rank and gave a test score. I don't feel "as bad" about not moving on right now.

The more I thought about it, it would be a really ballsy move for me to quit my current job in which I make much more than the starting MFD salary to take the 10 week EMT course only to not move on--for whatever reason--after that.

I'm sure there are at least a few other people in that situation too.

[clark918]

I'm sure there could be more chosen to take the CPAT in the future. However, they can't make that call yet. the 350 could be good enough for 3 classes, or it could be good enough for one. There's no way to predict it. Maybe 50 firefighters retire at the end of this year or maybe 10 do.

Read what I wrote about the first CPAT practice session a few posts ago. 12 of 50 that showed passed their first practice run. Only about 20 stayed throughout the whole thing. That's pretty bad. Also, the academy is WAY harder than the CPAT.

Tango... With the EMT class being 10 weeks, you may not have to quit your job. It might be at night since I'm sure that a daytime class for most would be pretty tough. It would probably be about 14-16 hours per week since its 10 weeks long.

[emtinmke]

I got a 90% and ranked 354!! Just missed it!

[jsin925]

I'm sure there could be more chosen to take the CPAT in the future. However, they can't make that call yet. the 350 could be good enough for 3 classes, or it could be good enough for one. There's no way to predict it. Maybe 50 firefighters retire at the end of this year or maybe 10 do.

Read what I wrote about the first CPAT practice session a few posts ago. 12 of 50 that showed passed their first practice run. Only about 20 stayed throughout the whole thing. That's pretty bad. Also, the academy is WAY harder than the CPAT.

not to be pessimistic, but i hope the first CPAT practice session is a sign of the the first 350 chosen to move on. i wish them all luck, but i want my chance at the badge too. i know some good people who didn't make the first cut. nonetheless, there are so many hoops to jump through before getting a chance at the academy, that i feel a lot of people won't make it through. at least i hope i get a chance at the academy too. such an honorable profession shouldn't be taken lightly. i mean, how many other jobs offer the perks of the fire department along with the pay? i might not make it through all of the hoops that one has to jump through, but i at least want a chance at it. if i fail then it's my fault. no one to blame but me.

[TangoTango]

Read what I wrote about the first CPAT practice session a few posts ago. 12 of 50 that showed passed their first practice run. Only about 20 stayed throughout the whole thing. That's pretty bad. Also, the academy is WAY harder than the CPAT.

.

Clark, what do you mean about the academy being way harder than the CPAT. I guess I'm not too familiar with that. How long are rookies in the academy?

[clark918]

I'm not sure about the length for MFD. I think 18 weeks. I don't know the exact failure rate, but there are always a few. LAFD for example uses the CPAT as well. Their academy has a 40% failure rate from what I hear. Some people dont get the material while others aren't in shape.

[Hydrashock]

Well I got my letter yesterday. I passed with an 89.68, which puts me at rank 390. The down side is they took the first 350 and will do an as needed basis for everyone else. Hope everyone got there letter good luck to you if your moving on.

[EgressOne]

I too believe the academy is in the range of 18-22 weeks...but yeah their are quite a few people that get dropped out of the academy pretty easily....the physical aspect just takes a toll on people cuz it is very hard....and for the classroom aspect people just dont take it seriously....this last class that went through i believe somewhere in the range of 8 people got dropped...not to sure on the number...but i have a friend that was in the last one...at just couldnt believe the amount of people that didnt take it serious

[Dan619]

Does anyone know if your ranking matters for the interview? For example- would the person who ranked #1 have a better chance at the interview than the person who ranked #349?

From the FF1 Manual- “Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.”

Go Packers!

[clark918]

Does anyone know if your ranking matters for the interview? For example- would the person who ranked #1 have a better chance at the interview than the person who ranked #349?

From the FF1 Manual- “Build a man a fire, keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire, keep him warm for the rest of his life.”

Go Packers!

Yes and no. I'm sure while interviewing they won't know your written test score. So it wouldn't matter at the interview. However, #1 will definitely have a better chance at getting hired. I think the written is 50% of your final score. Then the interview is 50%. Or it might be 40/60 or something, but it will definitely impact your final ranking.

[brewers]

Does anybody know exactly when we are supposed to move to Milwaukee? I am not sure when the date of hire exactly would be and I read that you have to have be a citizen of the city of Milwaukee 6 months prior to the date of hire.

[LittleNail]

Does anybody know exactly when we are supposed to move to Milwaukee? I am not sure when the date of hire exactly would be and I read that you have to have be a citizen of the city of Milwaukee 6 months prior to the date of hire.

You have to live in the City within 6 months of hire and throughout employment. You do not have to move to the city before you are hired.

[LittleNail]

Proposed 2009 budget calls for a $1.4 million cut for the fire department. The mayor wants the truck companies to go from 5 fire fighters to 4 and shut down 2 engines. This is before it goes to the council so don't get to worked up about it yet.

[clark918]

I just received a new letter from MFD today in the mail. It was letting me know that they received my CPAT cert and that I would not have to schedule one for Nov 2-4.

Then it says that I will be invited to the oral examination which is tentatively planned to be on Nov 17-21. Interview dates are to be sent as soon as possible after Nov 4.

Not too much info except for the CPAT and interview dates, but thought some of you would like to know.


Also a question for maybe jasper... I was recently talking to an MFD guy that other day who is on the HURT team. He said that everyone is pushing for two Heavy Rescues(same as FDNY, DCFD, CFD, etc) He said they would be staffed 24/7 and not respond to EMS calls. Is this just talk or is it something that will most likely happen? If so, then the engine companies being cut may not be AS bad as it seems. Since there will still be those two crews, but on different apparatus.

[jasper45]

Proposed 2009 budget calls for a $1.4 million cut for the fire department. The mayor wants the truck companies to go from 5 fire fighters to 4 and shut down 2 engines. This is before it goes to the council so don't get to worked up about it yet.


Wrong. Get worked up, get mad, call the elected people in the city of Milwaukee and voice your opposition to the cuts.
These cuts are GOING to happen, and then some. Since all you guys on this thread seem to be worried about is your getting a job, let me tell you this; when these cuts happen, and as of right now they are GOING to happen, none of you guys will get hired.

I don't think you guys are realizing how deeply we are going to be cut-this time. We are talking about 160 positions, altogether.


In case you're wondering, this information is what is being passed on tot he local via members of the common council. This is the same information that is being relayed to our union.

[jasper45]

I was recently talking to an MFD guy that other day who is on the HURT team. He said that everyone is pushing for two Heavy Rescues(same as FDNY, DCFD, CFD, etc) He said they would be staffed 24/7 and not respond to EMS calls. Is this just talk or is it something that will most likely happen? If so, then the engine companies being cut may not be AS bad as it seems. Since there will still be those two crews, but on different apparatus.


Clark, no one knows for sure. Any information you were told is nothing more than rumor right now.
The latest word coming down to us is very, very grim. They are going to cut the **** out of us, again.


Here's what we have as factual information. The city has two heavy rescues, and both are fully equipped for collapse, rope, trench, and automobile extrication. Only one is in service right now at truck 11, in which the truck company dual staffs.
How and where those rigs will be staffed next year is any ones guess. Right now, the chief of department is the only person who knows, and he ain't talking.
It's not like anything he says is worth listening to anyhow, he is a liar and a puppet for the mayor, and is sticking a knife in everyone of our backs who have worked with him while he was company officer.

We don't even know which companies are going to have staffing next year, so no one knows where those rescues will be detailed to, or how.

[jsin925]

Wrong. Get worked up, get mad, call the elected people in the city of Milwaukee and voice your opposition to the cuts.
These cuts are GOING to happen, and then some. Since all you guys on this thread seem to be worried about is your getting a job, let me tell you this; when these cuts happen, and as of right now they are GOING to happen, none of you guys will get hired.

I don't think you guys are realizing how deeply we are going to be cut-this time. We are talking about 160 positions, altogether.


In case you're wondering, this information is what is being passed on tot he local via members of the common council. This is the same information that is being relayed to our union.

geez, talk about sticking it to the working man (and woman); the firefighters and the the people who need them. i don't understand our common council. they don't seem to do anything productive, but still pull in a nice income, and continually get re-elected.

i've noticed some "support our firefighters" lawn signs in my neighborhood, do you know where i can get one?

so, if these cuts weren't going to happen do you think they would have advanced more than 350 people from the written test, or is that the norm?

[jsin925]

How and where those rigs will be staffed next year is any ones guess. Right now, the chief of department is the only person who knows, and he ain't talking.
It's not like anything he says is worth listening to anyhow, he is a liar and a puppet for the mayor, and is sticking a knife in everyone of our backs who have worked with him while he was company officer.

you would think that the chief would stand up for his men/women, and not hang you all out to dry. didn't he get a no confidence vote from the firefighters in st. paul when he was chief out there? i don't understand why the chief wouldn't fight for his fellow firefighters. isn't that what a good leader is supposed to do?

this city disappoints me in so many ways sometimes. you can never do more with less.

[jasper45]

i don't understand our common council. they don't seem to do anything productive, but still pull in a nice income, and continually get re-elected.

jsin, these cuts are completely stupid. Their first move is to take the guys off of the rigs, which perform the basic service that we are supposed to provide.
These cuts are going to cost people their lives, plain and simple. We have been cut every year for the past five years, and now they are going for the gouge.

Now they are talking about every company being cut to four, and the closing of firehouses.

i've noticed some "support our firefighters" lawn signs in my neighborhood, do you know where i can get one?

You can contact the local 215 office at 414-259-8000, and see if they have any left.
In all honesty, it would be better to contact your alderman, the common council president, and Mayor Barrett. Call them, e-mail them, and then do it again and again and again. Be respectful, factual, and make sure you tell them you feel this is going to be dangerous for you and your family, because it is going to be.

so, if these cuts weren't going to happen do you think they would have advanced more than 350 people from the written test, or is that the norm?

Honestly, I don't know. When I was hired, they ran five recruit classes off of my list and didn't come close to number 300. That is pretty much the same story for the list after me, in which they ran four classes. The list in front of me saw three classes.

I honestly believe they are just trying to be more efficient. When I went thru the process, they listed out to over a thousand. Anyone who passed the written advanced in the process. Testing was held over a period of weeks, which in turn was more expensive and time consuming. It also involved the testing of a lot of people who would never even be close to being offered a job.

What does impact this hiring though, is the number of guys who are on the job. We're talking about several hundred guys who aren't there now. Normal turnover is usually factored at about 5% per year, cut a significant number of people and that number drops dramatically, meaning fewer hirings.

[clark918]

I was on a call today and ran into a few MFD meds at the hospital. They told me that the FD was approved to hire 50 off the new list.

I'd definitely help in any way that I could with the cuts, but I'm not a Milwaukee resident so my opinion wouldn't really count towards anything to the city.

[jasper45]

I was on a call today and ran into a few MFD meds at the hospital. They told me that the FD was approved to hire 50 off the new list


Clark, I'm not trying to burst your bubble, but nothing has been approved. Nothing will be approved until the budget situation is cleared up. It simply can't be, because there is no one who knows how many spots will be left until the official cuts are implemented.

The budget process will not be finalized until the end of November/early December. Anything you hear before that is only a rumor, or an opinion, nothing more or less.
When I tell you this budget is in a crisis, it is a crisis. In fact, that term may not be descriptive enough.

In fact, an alderman who showed up at a fire I was working the other night, who is a friend of 215, stated that this will be a horrific budget for the department.

[pradermacher]

I have to take the CPAT and I haven't received a letter that indicates when this would be. Has anybody else? Also since they are accepting previous CPAT certs that would mean that this is just a pass/fail portion of the hiring process and therefore my time won't matter as long as I pass?

[clark918]

The CPAT is a Pass/Fail test(no matter where you take it). So no it wouldn't matter. The CPAT is 11/2-11/4 so you should probably receive your letter soon.

[pradermacher]

thank you much

[BrewCityFF]

13 OCT 2008


Union: Firefighters facing greater risks

Milwaukee firefighters' union leaders argued today that staffing cuts have increased the chances of death, injury and property loss in a fire. But Fire Department officials said the figures were open to interpretation.

Mayor Tom Barrett has proposed closing a downtown pumper engine company and slicing ladder truck crews from five firefighters to four in all companies that haven't been cut already. He says a second company will close unless the Common Council raises the solid waste fee 28%.

Since 2000, the city has cut 147 firefighter jobs, Milwaukee Professional Firefighters' Association President Bobbie Webber told the council's Finance & Personnel Committee. Although total fires and fire deaths are down, the rates of civilian deaths per fire, inflation-adjusted dollar loss per fire and injuries per firefighter are all up, Webber said.

Fire Chief Doug Holton and his command staff said they calculated the numbers differently than the union. For example, department officials noted, work time lost to injuries and illness is down for this year to date.

Webber and Holton also disagreed over the national standard for fire crew size. Webber said the four-person standard cited by Barrett, Holton and consultants was only for low-risk structures, while a five- or six-person crew is appropriate for Milwaukee's housing stock. Holton said his department compensated for smaller crews by sending more units to each fire.

The union has argued that larger crews are needed to ensure enough firefighters are on hand to aid colleagues trapped in a blaze. Barrett's budget calls for replacing two ladder truck companies with rapid-response units to rescue trapped firefighters.

[clark918]

Is that last night about the two rapid response units the same as the two Heavy Rescues that have been talked about? Sounds like they would be great, but I wouldn't want to take another two truck companies out for them. With the cuts of everything else and reducing the truck crews, they should be an addition to what already exists.

Also, I was just thinking, isn't Milwaukee's population going up? A lot more people are moving into the city. Especially people with money moving to places like the Third Ward. I don't see how a rising population should call for a smaller fire department.

[Dan619]

How are the CPAT's going? Any news on the interview process?

[clark918]

Just received a letter today from MFD. They said that instead of having my interview the week of the 17th, they are pushing them all back until after the first of the year. So more waiting game of course.

A Lt. from MFD recently told me that they were planning a class of 50 in March and another class of 50 in the fall, but I doubt it now.

[Breech31]

Just received a letter today from MFD. They said that instead of having my interview the week of the 17th, they are pushing them all back until after the first of the year. So more waiting game of course.

A Lt. from MFD recently told me that they were planning a class of 50 in March and another class of 50 in the fall, but I doubt it now.

So, if what the Lt. said was true, can we expect another recruitment in the future?

[clark918]

So, if what the Lt. said was true, can we expect another recruitment in the future?

Like a whole testing process again? He said he thinks this list will last about two years or so. Unlike the last one that was about four. With all of these cuts though, I have no idea. Even the guys on the job are confused about everything. I wish the guys on the job luck though. They are putting up with a lot of crap with all of these cuts.

[clark918]

Well I heard a rumor on why interviews are pushed back. I guess instead of taking just the top 350, they want the top 500. This is because so many failed the CPAT, and the small number of minorities.

It sucks that I have to wait longer for my interview, but at least I know I may have moved up a little farther since many failed the CPAT. I need to move up every spot that I can since I won't get any residency points in the end. I'm a little more worried about that since I recently got my DC results. I got a 94 on the test and finished at 84. A girl who got an 87 on the test is ranked 26 because she lives in DC. The one nice thing about MFD though is that only the top 350(well now 500) get those extra points. And that's only if they pass the CPAT.

I also heard word about the cuts. Maybe jasper could confirm this for me. Someone said that they ended up cutting about 20 total positions. So there are still 80 openings in the department without the future retirements.

So is anybody else on there ranked 351-500 that got a letter for the CPAT? If so, good luck.

[clark918]

I just found the new budget proposal on Milwaukee's website. I read through the FD part and found this:

Fire Fighter Recruit Class: The department will fill 50 vacant Fire Fighter positions by holding a training class in
March of 2009. The class and the existing vacancy rate are expected to leave the department with nearly 85 vacant
Fire Fighter positions by the end of 2009. There may be a need to hold a training class of at least 50 in 2010 to
further reduce the vacancy level.

In addition to the expenses contained in the proposed budget, the Mayor has proposed 2009 revenues which would
retain the remaining Fire Engine and Ladder Companies and provide five positions that would work 12 hour shifts
to provide some staffing flexibility.

So it looks like there should be a class of 50 for sure. However, that second class doesn't seem like it will happen to quickly.

[TangoTango]

Well I heard a rumor on why interviews are pushed back. I guess instead of taking just the top 350, they want the top 500. This is because so many failed the CPAT, and the small number of minorities.

It sucks that I have to wait longer for my interview, but at least I know I may have moved up a little farther since many failed the CPAT. I need to move up every spot that I can since I won't get any residency points in the end. I'm a little more worried about that since I recently got my DC results. I got a 94 on the test and finished at 84. A girl who got an 87 on the test is ranked 26 because she lives in DC. The one nice thing about MFD though is that only the top 350(well now 500) get those extra points. And that's only if they pass the CPAT.

I also heard word about the cuts. Maybe jasper could confirm this for me. Someone said that they ended up cutting about 20 total positions. So there are still 80 openings in the department without the future retirements.

So is anybody else on there ranked 351-500 that got a letter for the CPAT? If so, good luck.

I just missed the 350 cut and haven't received anything about the CPAT. Do you have any ballpark numbers of how many in the top 350 failed the CPAT?

[clark918]

No idea how many failed. I used a CPAT cert that I already had so I wasn't there to watch anyone else either. From what someone told me about the practice sessions though, well over half were failing.

What I heard about the 500 was just a rumor though so don't take my word on it. Next time I talk to a Milwaukee FF I'll try to ask though. I talked to a Lieutenant on Saturday, but he didn't hear anything yet.

[pradermacher]

When I took it there were about 20 of us and about 5 failed

[jsin925]

Well I heard a rumor on why interviews are pushed back. I guess instead of taking just the top 350, they want the top 500. This is because so many failed the CPAT, and the small number of minorities.

man, i was number 513.

[clark918]

jasper... my dad told me on that he heard something on the radio the other day about the union winning a fight with the city. He said they aren't going to cut all of the truck companies to four people like planned. Any truth to this? If so, congrats to you and everyone else in the union for a job well done. You guys deserved to win this fight.

[Breech31]

Like a whole testing process again? He said he thinks this list will last about two years or so. Unlike the last one that was about four. With all of these cuts though, I have no idea. Even the guys on the job are confused about everything. I wish the guys on the job luck though. They are putting up with a lot of crap with all of these cuts.

So,....and I apologize,..they will basically take names off 'the list' instead of accepting applications, correct?

[clark918]

So,....and I apologize,..they will basically take names off 'the list' instead of accepting applications, correct?

From what I understand, like most depts, this list should be good for a couple years.

[evanbell]

jasper... my dad told me on that he heard something on the radio the other day about the union winning a fight with the city. He said they aren't going to cut all of the truck companies to four people like planned. Any truth to this? If so, congrats to you and everyone else in the union for a job well done. You guys deserved to win this fight.

Check firehouse.com homepage...there's an article there that says the city council voted against the mayor to cut from 5 to 4 on trucks.

[clark918]

Yea, it was in the paper here as well today.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/35068904.html

So that's 24 positions that will stay which is nice. (8 spots x 3 shifts)

[clark918]

I was told the other day that only 47 of the 350 applicants invited to the CPAT actually passed. That's crazy. I know they wanted a class of 50 in by March, but that's definitely not going to happen. The letter I received after CPATS stated that my interview was moved to Jan, but now I could see it taking longer. Any news from anyone else?

[ffdustin22]

does that 47 include the people who didnt have to take the cpat?

[pradermacher]

When I took the CPAT we were told that we would receive a letter just after the new year stating our interview time. So anytime now.

[fallenaxe308]

I passed the CPAT along with about 15-18 other candidates, out of maybe 25. I also have heard about these "47" out of 350 that have passed. I'm not buying it. Perhaps there was 47 people who didn't have to take the CPAT because they had a CPAT certificate. I don't know. Wait and see I guess.

[pradermacher]

Anybody hear from them yet?

[clark918]

Nothing yet.

[TangoTango]

Nothing yet.

Just got this email so I guess I'm still in the running...

Thank you for your participation in the Firefighter selection process.

The Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission has recently directed that the candidates to be further considered in the selection process include the top half of those passing the written test (approximately 1,750). You are included in this group. Test scores will be based on the written test weighted 35% and the oral examination weighted 65%, with the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT) remaining pass/fail. Preference points (residency, educational and military) will be added to the overall test score to determine final score and ranking. Preference points paperwork will be sent with your scheduling letter.

The next step in the process is the oral examination which we are planning to hold the week of February 23-27, 2009. You will be notified of the exact date and time of your oral examination by February 9, 2009. If you have not received your test notice by that date please contact us at the number below. If you pass the oral examination and rank high enough to be considered for a position you will be invited to participate in the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT).

[evanbell]

Just got this email so I guess I'm still in the running...

Thank you for your participation in the Firefighter selection process.

The Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission has recently directed that the candidates to be further considered in the selection process include the top half of those passing the written test (approximately 1,750). You are included in this group. Test scores will be based on the written test weighted 35% and the oral examination weighted 65%, with the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT) remaining pass/fail. Preference points (residency, educational and military) will be added to the overall test score to determine final score and ranking. Preference points paperwork will be sent with your scheduling letter.

The next step in the process is the oral examination which we are planning to hold the week of February 23-27, 2009. You will be notified of the exact date and time of your oral examination by February 9, 2009. If you have not received your test notice by that date please contact us at the number below. If you pass the oral examination and rank high enough to be considered for a position you will be invited to participate in the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT).

Same here...I'm really confused. So they are going from moving on 350 candidates to 1800?? I just called someone in their Employee Relations Department and he confirmed everything on here. Guess they didn't have enough quality candidates in the top 350. Keep your eyes open in your mailboxes fellas!

[clark918]

This sucks. It's annoying. I've worked so hard to get a job so far. I did good on the written and finished 48. Then I'm one of 47 out of 350 to pass the CPAT. Interview gets cancelled and now 1500 more people get a shot. Then they also get their extra residency points. A few Milwaukee firefighters have told me that the chief isn't even hiding it anymore. He wants minorities and women. Just kind of hurts when you work this hard and it keeps getting pulled away from you.

[TangoTango]

This sucks. It's annoying. I've worked so hard to get a job so far. I did good on the written and finished 48. Then I'm one of 47 out of 350 to pass the CPAT. Interview gets cancelled and now 1500 more people get a shot. Then they also get their extra residency points. A few Milwaukee firefighters have told me that the chief isn't even hiding it anymore. He wants minorities and women. Just kind of hurts when you work this hard and it keeps getting pulled away from you.

I feel for you, man. How many FFs are they hiring this year? 50? Originally it was 100, I believe. How's this for affirmative action? Passing over the most qualified candidates for less qualified based solely on race and gender? I can't believe they changed the qualifiers mid-stream. Very interesting (and frustrating).

[mikej1]

I agree, it's very disapointing. I also have done very good at the written and the CPAT. I don't even know if it's worth driving back for the Orals because of the residency points.

[clark918]

tango... i think it was supposed to be one spring class and one fall. i'm sure that march academy isn't happening anymore though.

mike... one thing that might be fine though is that those getting residency points that aren't qualified at all, still have to pas the cpat at the end. so if say give it a shot.

[mikej1]

Clark, Thanks for the encouragment, I will be there. . That is true people still have to pass the CPAT. And when are the other people going to do the CPAT?

[jccrabby3084]

A few Milwaukee firefighters have told me that the chief isn't even hiding it anymore. He wants minorities and women.

Yep, because people hanging out of windows while a fire quickly encroaches care so much about the race and gender of that firefighter coming to the rescue.
Matter of fact I believe there is video of a recent Milwaukee apartment fire where it depicts exactly that of people concerned about the proportion of minority firefighters working that scene, vs any firefighter getting that ladder up to them so they could escape with their lives.

I can't believe that people still want to make race and gender an issue over the best applicant available.

[clark918]

Yep, because people hanging out of windows while a fire quickly encroaches care so much about the race and gender of that firefighter coming to the rescue.
Matter of fact I believe there is video of a recent Milwaukee apartment fire where it depicts exactly that of people concerned about the proportion of minority firefighters working that scene, vs any firefighter getting that ladder up to them so they could escape with their lives.

I can't believe that people still want to make race and gender an issue over the best applicant available.

I agree. That's why it's so annoying. I went through a hiring process with St Louis once and they administered the written test because over 90% of the minorities failed. Over half the city is African American so for some reason the department has to be. They used to have a 1 and 1 ruled where every white person that was hired, there needed to be a black. They should just survey the city and see that people will want the best possible applicants. I'm not saying someone of another race or gender is bad, but take they because they ARE good, not because of he color of their skin. One girl that I work with at a smaller department got to take the CPAT 3 times for MFD. They are already giving everyone extra chances. I know several MFD firefighters that I've talked to are very upset about everything.

mike... sounds like it might be after the interview. I think they might form a new list after that since the interview is 65% of the score.

[ffwife82]

Does anyone know if there's a "no moonlighting" clause for new recruits? i.e. Can new recruits/probies hold other jobs during their first year or so? My husband got the same email that was just discussed, so will be taking his oral exam in Feb., and he's currently in nursing school slated to finish in the fall. I would hate for him to waste his nursing by not being able to work another job during his first year or so, but if he gets on MFD then he definitely shouldn't turn it down. Any info/experience with this type of thing?

[MTGillinois]

Well I for one was not in the top of the list... and am now getting a shot... AFTER MOVING TO MONTANA. I WILL be there, not complaining, and hungry for whatever I can get with such a large department, with good guys. The opportunity is there. If it doesn't work out I'll continue my testing rounds... but to be honest... I'm happy to have some semblance of a shot.

[TangoTango]

Well I for one was not in the top of the list... and am now getting a shot... AFTER MOVING TO MONTANA. I WILL be there, not complaining, and hungry for whatever I can get with such a large department, with good guys. The opportunity is there. If it doesn't work out I'll continue my testing rounds... but to be honest... I'm happy to have some semblance of a shot.

Anyone with info regarding the interview format? I heard that MKE doesn'tt use your everyday traditional 'face to face' interview format. They employ some sort of situational scenarios that you're presented with and you respond accordingly in real time. Is this videotaped and scored at a later date or is this "live" with a panel watching and listening to your responses?

[evanbell]

Anyone with info regarding the interview format? I heard that MKE doesn'tt use your everyday traditional 'face to face' interview format. They employ some sort of situational scenarios that you're presented with and you respond accordingly in real time. Is this videotaped and scored at a later date or is this "live" with a panel watching and listening to your responses?

If that's the case then its just like the interview I had yesterday with Henrico County. I had 30 minutes to answer 8 scenario based questions in front of a panel of 5 people. They would be writing and taking notes on everything I said with very minimal eye contact. Seems like a silly way to "get to know" candidates. Not sure if that's how Milwaukee does it though. I'd rather have the oral interviews

[clark918]

If Milwaukee does the situational thing again, it's not in front of a panel. You are video recorded after watching short video clips. It's called the BPAD. You can get some information and practice here: http://www.bpad.com/pages/faqs.html Then it gets shipped off and a panel somewhere else reviews it.

I heard that they were going back to a traditional oral interview due to the cost though. However, this was when they only had 350 people moving on. I'm not sure what they will do now.

[thanojon]

So are they planning on interviewing 1800 candidates now?

[evanbell]

So are they planning on interviewing 1800 candidates now?

If so, and if they are doing oral interviews which is what the email said...I don't know how on earth they plan on interviewing 1800 people in 5 days. Even half that would be impossible

[thanojon]

If so, and if they are doing oral interviews which is what the email said...I don't know how on earth they plan on interviewing 1800 people in 5 days. Even half that would be impossible

Thats why I was curious. I mean.. is it even possible to do that many in such a short amount of time? I wish I had a clearer answer on how many they are going to be interviewing. Also, does this mean that all interviewed candidates will be scheduled for a CPAT as well?

[fallenaxe308]

I too am frustrated. I'm in the 170's after the written, pass the CPAT, have residency and a Fire Science degree. I think that makes me qualified for the job, pending oral interview. But no offense to all of those now able to move on, but over 1700 now? A little much. As for the interview, haven't heard any information regarding how it will be. 1700 applicants in 5 days sounds like a reach to me.

[thanojon]

bump. Any more idea whats happening here. Are the guys that were interviewed first off not moving on or what. confused as to why they're interviewing 1700...????

[clark918]

bump. Any more idea whats happening here. Are the guys that were interviewed first off not moving on or what. confused as to why they're interviewing 1700...????

No one was interviewed yet. Those of us that passed the CPAT got letters for it in November, but it was canceled.

[thanojon]

No one was interviewed yet. Those of us that passed the CPAT got letters for it in November, but it was canceled.


Ah ok I'm clear. So they're really going to interview 1700-1,800 then in five days huh? What the heck.

[evanbell]

Ah ok I'm clear. So they're really going to interview 1700-1,800 then in five days huh? What the heck.

I know right...it's going to be REAL fair. I mean how can you interview that many candidates in such a little time frame? The only way to have continuity in judging candidates across the board is to have the same group of people interview everyone but there's no way that's going to happen here.

[fyrfyter414]

I know right...it's going to be REAL fair. I mean how can you interview that many candidates in such a little time frame? The only way to have continuity in judging candidates across the board is to have the same group of people interview everyone but there's no way that's going to happen here.

How many of the 1700-1800 are going to show up? Who knows right. But I do know there have been a couple of people that have said they won't be going.

[APiernot]

It could be done just like a modeling audition. You walk into the room, they look and you and say one of two things:

1) "NEXT"
2) "Comeback for the CPAT"

Who knows what they are going to do with this process. But one thing for sure is that doing even 1100 interviews in 5 days is insane. Good luck to all that are in this process, because I see a long road ahead for not just myself but everyone else!

[EgressOne]

The whole reasoning behind allowing 1750 people to be interviewed is due to Holton was unsatisfied with how many, or lack of, minorities moved on. There wasnt alot that even passed the written, and heresay is that only 45 total people out of the 350 passed the CPAT. Even then dont get your hopes up with being included in this extention cause, when all is said at a final list is made..Holton gets to "selectively" choose who he wants in the academy. He will be taking 1-5 and selecting a "qualified" candidate...6-10 and selecting a "qualified" candidate and so on

[evanbell]

The whole reasoning behind allowing 1750 people to be interviewed is due to Holton was unsatisfied with how many, or lack of, minorities moved on. There wasnt alot that even passed the written, and heresay is that only 45 total people out of the 350 passed the CPAT. Even then dont get your hopes up with being included in this extention cause, when all is said at a final list is made..Holton gets to "selectively" choose who he wants in the academy. He will be taking 1-5 and selecting a "qualified" candidate...6-10 and selecting a "qualified" candidate and so on

That's the reason I'm not even sure it's really worth my time to come up there and interview. Hopefully I won't have that problem and I'll get a phone call this week with an offer and then I won't have to waste my time.

[thanojon]

.............................. .............................. ............

[jasper45]

Suck my ****.


There you go, that's the way to impress an interview panel. Don't show up for the interview then, we don't like working with quitters, anyway. :rolleyes:

[thanojon]

There you go, that's the way to impress an interview panel. Don't show up for the interview then, we don't like working with quitters, anyway. :rolleyes:

Yeah yeah i know it's just becoming a little ridiculous with having to be "politically" correct and worrying about facing law suits and discriminations etc etc etc etc. Just wondering what happened to the days of hiring the most qualified candidate, not worrying about whether the class (who would be the most qualified) has a law suit on their hands. Idk, never mind what im trying to get across is a tad confusing.

[manonfire08]

God damnit same **** as other processes. If your not ****ing black or a women then you better have a paramedic cert otherwise dont show up. I'm tired of this reverse discrimination. If i ****ing beat a billion people on the written test then I deserve to be selected before them. Not some homie gangster who decided two days before the test was advertised that he wanted "to be a firefighter dog." Suck my ****.

wow come on OJON keep it civilized we are all in the same boat nobody likes it but unfortunately thats reality. there are plenty of minorites that are great firefighters. all you can do is broaden your search and apply to as many fd's as possible, do everything they tell you to do, and be ready to perform when called upon

[clark918]

jasper... any word on if they are using the BPAD again? Also, anything on the new academy date since March obviously isn't going to happen?

[jasper45]

Just wondering what happened to the days of hiring the most qualified candidate, not worrying about whether the class (who would be the most qualified) has a law suit on their hands.


The fact is, no one knows what the interview is going to entail, there is nothing factual as of right now. Everything out there, outside of what you have seen in writing is a rumor.
It's not a fair world, and it is perfectly legal, the city is still under a court ordered quota for hiring new firefighters, stemming from a 1977 (off the top of my head) ruling in Federal court.

Just make sure you choose your words wisely. I work with some black guys who just showed up for the exam because they wanted work, who are very dependable and hard working individuals. Many of them are legacies, meaning that their father was on the job before them, just like many of us.
I also work with white guys who just showed up to take the test as well, who also are great guys to work with, all with no previous experience.

All of your certifications mean nothing here. This means that someone can walk in off the street, take the test and get hired, and do so over people who have every NFPA certificate known to man.
We don't care about certificates, we want good, quality, dependable people that are wiling to work.
If you want to criticize the process, criticize that part of it, because that part is truly wrong.

[jasper45]

jasper... any word on if they are using the BPAD again? Also, anything on the new academy date since March obviously isn't going to happen?


No clue. I know it's tough, but patience is the key. All we know is that there are recruit classes in the budget.

[clark918]

No clue. I know it's tough, but patience is the key. All we know is that there are recruit classes in the budget.

Thanks jasper. You're right, it is very tough. I was almost positive that I was going to have this job after being 1 of 47 to pass the CPAT. I'm going through my background check in DC, but Milwaukee is where I grew up. Many of the best firefighters I know are either MFD, or retired MFD. So this place really means a lot too me. Hopefully it all works out.

[thanojon]

So uh this is off topic but jasper, just curious. How come you guys dont have anything on the back of your turnout coat. No big deal just wonderin haha.. Like kinda plain.

[jccrabby3084]

So uh this is off topic but jasper, just curious. How come you guys dont have anything on the back of your turnout coat. No big deal just wonderin haha.. Like kinda plain.



Does it matter? What do you want a Superman "S" ?
The guys in bunker gear jumping off a MFD rig with MFD on the rig, what more do you need?

Point is, having names and what not on the gear costs more money, of which I don't see a lot of money going towards. The gear needs to protect you, not show the public and the media cameras who you are.

[clark918]

Does it matter? What do you want a Superman "S" ?
The guys in bunker gear jumping off a MFD rig with MFD on the rig, what more do you need?

Point is, having names and what not on the gear costs more money, of which I don't see a lot of money going towards. The gear needs to protect you, not show the public and the media cameras who you are.

Or to solve both problems, they could have a giant advertisement on back. Nothing like an MFD firefighter fighting a fire with a giant "Silk Exotic Gentleman's Club" logo on the back of their coat! :)

[clark918]

I got an email today with my interview date. Looks like it will be the BPAD interview this time.

[thanojon]

Yeah i know i was just curious as to why they were like that. And no, it doesn't matter. I've just never seen a turnout coat with nothing on the back of it. But no, i don't give a **** and its a question that just had curiosity to it.

[manonfire08]

Got my letter today

Once the test instructions have begun, late candidates will not be allowed into the testing room. Therefore, you must be on time. You should plan to spend approximately 1-1/2 to 2 hours at the test.


FORMAT: Candidates' interviews will be videotaped and evaluated at a later date by a trained rating panel. An Oral Examination Candidate Preparation Guide, explaining the format of this exam will be available on our website at www.milwaukee.gov/jobs/firefighter or from our office at City Hall (see above address)on or before February 6, 2009. Please be sure to review this Preparation Guide prior to attending your oral interview.

[thanojon]

Got my letter today

Once the test instructions have begun, late candidates will not be allowed into the testing room. Therefore, you must be on time. You should plan to spend approximately 1-1/2 to 2 hours at the test.


FORMAT: Candidates' interviews will be videotaped and evaluated at a later date by a trained rating panel. An Oral Examination Candidate Preparation Guide, explaining the format of this exam will be available on our website at www.milwaukee.gov/jobs/firefighter or from our office at City Hall (see above address)on or before February 6, 2009. Please be sure to review this Preparation Guide prior to attending your oral interview.

I noticed that the preparation guide wont be posted for a while. Question: Are we going to be in a group or will it be a personal interview. And this BPAD thing is a bit different it seems like.

[evanbell]

I noticed that the preparation guide wont be posted for a while. Question: Are we going to be in a group or will it be a personal interview. And this BPAD thing is a bit different it seems like.

It sounds more like a personal interview. From what I've heard, this interview type sucks...we'll see!

[TangoTango]

I noticed that the preparation guide wont be posted for a while. Question: Are we going to be in a group or will it be a personal interview. And this BPAD thing is a bit different it seems like.

How would they administer the BPAD in a group setting?

[thanojon]

How would they administer the BPAD in a group setting?

Idk. The only reason i thought that because i believe i read somewhere on the letter to bring two pencils.. so i was like eh wtf? Wouldn't really need that for an interview? But yeah i know stupid comment. Not sure at all though how this BPAD will be.

[EgressOne]

I also was wondering what the "bring two pencils was also about"....also not quite sure of the exact, but I thought my letter said later on that "once candidates are notified of passing the written they will be asked invited to participate in a video based written." I may be wrong, i dont have my letter with me at this time...but doesnt that sound that they will be giving another written test??

[TangoTango]

I also was wondering what the "bring two pencils was also about"....also not quite sure of the exact, but I thought my letter said later on that "once candidates are notified of passing the written they will be asked invited to participate in a video based written." I may be wrong, i dont have my letter with me at this time...but doesnt that sound that they will be giving another written test??

We'll probably need to fill out some kind of Scantron form before the BPAD starts just for the sake of documentation. Either that or someone got lazy and cut/paste from the written test notice.

Has anyone taken a BPAD before? I had a look at the sample video/scenario (the car accident) and I'm not sure if I'd be able to fill a whole 45 second slot (which will likely seem like an eternity) with my response. I guess you don't really NEED to fill the entire response time with words, but really, how long does it take to respond to 1 statement or question? 15 seconds max...

[coachleather]

The best way I ever found to get information from a specific dept. without sounding generic as if you found the information on the city website, is to actually meet firefighters from the department. When I was testing, anytime I got an offer for an oral board I would call the Dept. and found out if it was okay to come by to do a station visit. I would call the specific station beforehand to make sure it was okay to stop by, get a couple of quarts of ice cream and head down to the station to introduce myself and pick their brains. I cannot tell you how helpful it was for me. Literally in my last hiring process, (the one that got me the job) I met a LT. who was actually going to be an instructor at the academy they were sending recruits through, needless to say he has been a good friend of mine ever since and that station visit definitely helped me get hired. I know some depts. will not allow station visits but if they do its a huge advantage come interview time.

[thanojon]

Question. Are the people that FAILED the CPAT getting an interview too? Just wondering. Trying to get a rough estimate of how many are going to be at it

[thanojon]

After reviewing the oral interview preparation online, it really doesn't seem like it will be that BPAD interview. Correct me if I'm wrong. Any thoughts on this? Also, does anybody (Clark I'm sure you would know), the answer to my previous question. thanks

[clark918]

After reviewing the oral interview preparation online, it really doesn't seem like it will be that BPAD interview. Correct me if I'm wrong. Any thoughts on this? Also, does anybody (Clark I'm sure you would know), the answer to my previous question. thanks

Yea that's not the BPAD. I think BPAD is a company. This, I think, is the same company that administered the written test.

[thanojon]

Yea that's not the BPAD. I think BPAD is a company. This, I think, is the same company that administered the written test.

Got ya. Also, Clark, do you know if the candidates that failed the CPAT are going to be interviewing too?

[clark918]

Got ya. Also, Clark, do you know if the candidates that failed the CPAT are going to be interviewing too?

I work with one that failed and I think she said that they do not get to interview. Not 100% sure, but I think that's what she told me. So if the rumor was true about only 47 passing, then there are only 47 of the top 350 moving on. I'm also not sure if those of us that passed will have to take the CPAT again depending on how the interview goes.

One good thing happened for me though. It would have been nice to have my interview in Nov like planned, but with it pushed back, I'm eligible for preference points. I graduated in December so I will get 3 points for that.

[thanojon]

I work with one that failed and I think she said that they do not get to interview. Not 100% sure, but I think that's what she told me. So if the rumor was true about only 47 passing, then there are only 47 of the top 350 moving on. I'm also not sure if those of us that passed will have to take the CPAT again depending on how the interview goes.

One good thing happened for me though. It would have been nice to have my interview in Nov like planned, but with it pushed back, I'm eligible for preference points. I graduated in December so I will get 3 points for that.


Thank you for that information... glad to hear something of value in this confusing process... Congrats on the preference pts... wish I could gain some... however I am out of state and won't receive anything haha. Good luck to you I'm sure you'll be in that first class man. I'm anticipating that interview though! Wondering what it will hold...

[evanbell]

Thank you for that information... glad to hear something of value in this confusing process... Congrats on the preference pts... wish I could gain some... however I am out of state and won't receive anything haha. Good luck to you I'm sure you'll be in that first class man. I'm anticipating that interview though! Wondering what it will hold...

I feel ya with the preference points. I feel like it's going to be a HUGE waste of my time to come up there since I don't get a single preference point but I'll still be there...I'm just not holding out any hope for a job here.

[APiernot]

To verify what Clark mentioned earlier: Those candidates that FAILED the CPAT do NOT get an interview. I verified this with several people who failed, and they are not continuing in the process.

Clark, congrat's on earning your Associates degree!

[thanojon]

To verify what Clark mentioned earlier: Those candidates that FAILED the CPAT do NOT get an interview. I verified this with several people who failed, and they are not continuing in the process.

Clark, congrat's on earning your Associates degree!

Well, this may sound a bit stubborn, but I'm glad to hear that information. At least that eliminates some 300 people right there... considering they want to interview 1800 or whatever the number is.

[Hydrashock]

I’m confused, I got my interview e-mail and letter but I never took the CPAT.
Will I have to take it after it I pass?

[clark918]

I’m confused, I got my interview e-mail and letter but I never took the CPAT.
Will I have to take it after it I pass?

Only about 47 of the 350 invited to the CPAT. So the 47 of us who had interviews scheduled for November had them canceled. Now the top 1750 from the written test get interviews. Then preference will be added on followed by the CPAT.

[evanbell]

Only about 47 of the 350 invited to the CPAT. So the 47 of us who had interviews scheduled for November had them canceled. Now the top 1750 from the written test get interviews. Then preference will be added on followed by the CPAT.

City politics at their finest...

[thanojon]

Only about 47 of the 350 invited to the CPAT. So the 47 of us who had interviews scheduled for November had them canceled. Now the top 1750 from the written test get interviews. Then preference will be added on followed by the CPAT.

haha grateful for an interview but whyyyyyy so high on the list. Stop in the 500's haha

[fallenaxe308]

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think more than 47 people out of the 350 passed. I took the CPAT in Nov and only 5 didn't pass out of my group of 24 individuals. This "47" that I keep seeing may be the number that originally had scheduled interviews in Nov and NOT the number of people that passed the physical from the original 350.

From what I have heard, about 40% didn't pass the CPAT. Thats approximately 200 or so that did. That's my information.

A far as the oral, I have no idea what to expect. I know that it will not be the BPAD as it was used in the past. Any ideas out there?

[jsin925]

any advice on how to pass the oral? should i wear a tie or not? any examples of the questions that will be asked? i've been told that i will have to talk to a video, so what should i expect? thanks for any advice that is given.

[CaptBob]

any advice on how to pass the oral? any examples of the questions that will be asked? i've been told that i will have to talk to a video, so what should i expect? thanks for any advice that is given.

Will they be using B-pad or FireTeam Testing? Received this from a candidate:

I have an oral interview coming up with Milwaukee that will be video taped and sent off to be graded. Just wondering if you have anything else that will help me get this job. Test on Feb. 25th Thanks, Brett

Reply: This sounds like a b-pad type of test?

In B-pad, you will be presented with a video that shows many situations. You will be recorded by another video to view how you respond. At the end of each situation, you will be given an opportunity to pick one of several answers or tell what you would do.

B-pad is designed to see how you would react in situations if you were a firefighter. If you already had your answers in place, you would get high scores for an oral board, members of a city council hiring committee, B-pad or any other interview. The problem is most candidates don't have their script down to audition for the job of a firefighter.

We encourage candidates to prepare for b-pad like an actor does for a part in a play. Once they are in that part you only see their personal script on becoming a firefighter. This works especially well in the B-pad where you would want to act as if you were already a firefighter. Nothing short of this will do. It's show time. The bright lights of Broadway. It's time to grab your top hat, cane and step it out.

Key in B-pad is to listen and identify the issue, catching more than one issue, deciding the correct thing to do and using to total time you are given to answer each segment.

Here are four sample scenerios used in B-Pad:

Comforting a trapped child
Aiding an elderly and ill citizen
Responding to conflicting orders
Confronting a coworker's substance abuse

Previous posting:
I took a B-Pad about 4 months ago for a firefighter job. Luckily, I did get the job.

My advice to you would be to remain calm and relaxed through the process. They will give you 45 seconds-1 minute to answer. If you feel that you answered to the best of your ability and you have extra time, sit or stand there and DO NOT FIDGET and move around.

Sit still and wait for that scenario to end. Part of the evaluation is watching how you react after you answer. I think I had 8 scenario's that I had to provide answers for. To be honest, they are all common sense. Don't make more out of it than it is. Above all....remain CALM and COLLECTED. After all, if you can't do that in front of the camera, how are you going to do it on real calls. Good Luck!!

From Another Candidate:
I know a few people on the fire dept. of the b-pad. I was talking to one of the rookies about the b-pad. He was telling me my responses short and to the point and that people were screwing themselves over by making their answers too long. Is this accurate??

Reply: You should use the allotted time to give a complete answer. Not to the point of rambling. When you're done with your answer, stop.

Too many candidates end up rambling towards the end of their answers. I refer to this as trailing off. Keep it simple. Your mind will tell you when you need to stop. It you don’t, you will keep adding unnecessary stuff, mumbling, trailing off and the answer will be pronounced dead way out there somewhere ending with, “Blab, blab, blab. And, that’s about all . . .”

[CaptBob]

should i wear a tie or not?

You're going to be video taped for review later right? How would you like to be one of the few who doesn't wear a suit? How do you think this make your best first impression? Perception is everything! Dress for success!!!!

I had a candidate tell me he went to an interview wearing a tie, suspenders and no jacket. I asked him, "Who did you think you are Larry King?" His mother would have never let him out of the house like that. I asked him if they called him back for a chief's interview? No. The defense rests. McFly?

Even though this might be b-pad the strongest non-verbal statement you can make in any oral board is what you wear. It is time to step up and make the investment.

Men: Do wear a wool suit in dark blue or gray. Pinstripes are fine, but avoid brown, black, or high fashion brightly colored suits. Sport coats or blazers are out, so is polyester. Tie should be in a solid color such as navy, red, maroon, or yellow stripe, or paisley print. Wear a white or off white, or pale blue long sleeved shirt in cotton or a cotton blend. Starch it no matter what the instructions say. No patterned shirts!

Black is a little too formal, more for dances, funerals and being a star in the movie Men in Black. If black is all you have, wear it.

Don't: wear casual or novelty watches, too much jewelry, monograms, religious, political, or fraternity affiliation accessories. Beards are out; mustaches are a gray area. When in doubt, shave it off.

When my Son Rob was going for his interviews, he had a new suit, shoes, tie, belt socks and, yes, new underwear. He said it made him feel like the candidate he wanted to be.

Question: Is simply slacks and a collared shirt ok?

Reply: NO! Be professional and look professional. If you want to be taken seriously it's time to step up and make the investment in the career you say you're looking for.

But I don't have $500.00 to spend.

Reply:It won't cost you $500.00. Go to the Mens Warehouse or a department store that has a sale.

Ask for the personal shopper (this service is free). They will get you fixed up in your price range. It will make a big difference.

Absolutely nothing counts 'til you have the badge. Nothing!

[lafd007]

any advice on how to pass the oral? should i wear a tie or not? any examples of the questions that will be asked? i've been told that i will have to talk to a video, so what should i expect? thanks for any advice that is given.

I'm not going to try to sell you anything but you should wear a tie to the oral. Have you checked Capt Bob's page yet to see if they sell ties!!!!

Good Luck

[thanojon]

Does anybody have any new information on what the interview is going to entail?

[ritogixxer]

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think more than 47 people out of the 350 passed. I took the CPAT in Nov and only 5 didn't pass out of my group of 24 individuals. This "47" that I keep seeing may be the number that originally had scheduled interviews in Nov and NOT the number of people that passed the physical from the original 350.

From what I have heard, about 40% didn't pass the CPAT. Thats approximately 200 or so that did. That's my information.

A far as the oral, I have no idea what to expect. I know that it will not be the BPAD as it was used in the past. Any ideas out there?

I would have to agree. I am not sure if we were in the same group but I remember about 5 or so people didnt pass when I took the CPAT. You will have one less person because I am taking myself out of the process to start with Chicago in the March 3rd class.

[thanojon]

any new info on the interviews?

[manonfire08]

I would have to agree. I am not sure if we were in the same group but I remember about 5 or so people didnt pass when I took the CPAT. You will have one less person because I am taking myself out of the process to start with Chicago in the March 3rd class.

Make that 2 less people I pulled myself out as well. I didn’t go to my interview on Monday the 23rd. I will also be in the March 3rd recruit class for Chicago. See you 6am in a week Ritogixxer

[pradermacher]

Just curious- the two guys that are starting Chicago what was you rank for the Milwaukee test?

[thanojon]

So does anybody want to talk about what they thought about the interview, or more importantly, how they are going to select how many people move on, that type of deal?

[manonfire08]

i was ranked in the 1100's

[clark918]

I've got my interview Friday. Hopefully it goes well. I'm ranked 48 right now(maybe a little higher after the top 350 took the CPAT) and should hopefully be getting 3 extra points now that I'm done with my Associate Degree. Little nervous about the interview, but I think I'm prepared.

At least when I finish I get to go home and pack for my flight to LA later that night. I have a written with Orange County, but I think I'm more excited about getting out of this weather than I am about the test. haha I don't know about the rest of you but I can't take this WI weather anymore. I guess it's good though that my biggest complaint about the Milwaukee Fire Department if I get hired would be the fact that the weather sucks.(which really has nothing to the dept itself) haha

Good luck everyone!

[thanojon]

Clark, any idea on how the next selection will go? I.E. how many they will move on (another 350, another 500 etc?). Just curious if you, or anybody for that matter knows what will happen after the interviews are conducted.

[clark918]

Clark, any idea on how the next selection will go? I.E. how many they will move on (another 350, another 500 etc?). Just curious if you, or anybody for that matter knows what will happen after the interviews are conducted.

No idea. I haven't talked to any MFD guys lately. Even if I do, I don't think they would know. This process has changed so much lately that it seems like most of the MFD guys are out of the loop right now. Hopefully it moves fast. However, I'm not too sure that it will since they have to review 1750 interviews. I'm not sure what is going to happen to those of us that already took the CPAT either.

[ritogixxer]

Just curious- the two guys that are starting Chicago what was you rank for the Milwaukee test?

My number is 164 before the CPAT, not that it sounds like these numbers mean anything. To everyone looking for a full time job I would recommend testing EVERYWHERE even if it is a department you dont want to work for. The experiance you get from an actuall interview for this type of job is better than any advice someone can give you. They can tell you what to expect, but they cant tell you what to do when you get nervious you have to figure that out on your own. Good luck to you guys. See you in the March 3rd academy manonfire08.

[Jack7466]

Does anyone know when we will hear anything from the interviews? Or taking/retaking the CPAT? I found that most of my interview answers were roughly 60 seconds to 90 seconds and I finished pretty quick. Not sure if that's a good thing.

At what point do they add in preference points? was it with the original test score? or at the end with the test and interview?


Also clark918, Your AA doesn't count. You would to of had it done by application time, this past summer. According to the website information.

Thanks for any information! Be safe.

[ReallyGoodName]

The hotline says the results from the oral interviews should be mailed out by May 9. As for preference points, my understanding was that they're added on at the very end of the process, when determining the final eligibility list. I may well be wrong about that, though.

[Jack7466]

Where does Milwaukee hold the academy? What part of town?


Any news on what part of the process they add the extra points? (resident, degree, vet)

Be safe!

[ReallyGoodName]

Fire/Police academy is at 6680 N. Teutonia Ave.

And, from http://www.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/User/jkamme/FirePoliceComm/Firefighter_FAQ.pdf I see:

"Applicants who obtain a final passing score on the examination process may be eligible for additional points for military service, for being a bona fide resident of the City of Milwaukee at time of application, and/or for having an Associate’s degree in fire technology or a Bachelor’s degree in fire science."

That seems to imply, like I said before, that the preference points get added on at the very end, after you've obtained "a final passing score".

[APiernot]

Hey, just took some time to read the minutes from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission and guess what...there was actually some info pertaining to the process here. This should put most of the rumors surrounding Milwaukee to rest (i.e. that only 47 of 350 passed the CPAT):

The written test was given in August, and 3,897 candidates
participated out of the 5,712 who were invited to the test. The CPAT was given at Waukesha County Technical College in early November to the top 350 candidates (294 took the test, 243 passed).

The Commission decided to include the top half of those who passed the written test (approximately 3,500) in the testing process. Therefore, over 1,700 candidates will be invited to the oral examination and have the
potential of being included on the eligible list based on a composite of written and oral test scores. The oral examination is planned for late February, 2009, and the participation rate is estimated to be 80-90%. The oral examination question and rating criteria development is almost finished. A videotape process will be used to administer the examination. Approximately 15 rating panels will be trained and rate the candidates by videotape over a 2-3 week period in March, 2009. The eligible list will be compiled in April, 2009, based
on the written test (35%) and the oral examination (65%). Veteran’s preference, residency, and education points will be added at this point. There are currently about 90 vacancies to be filled.

Groups of candidates who have not already taken the CPAT will then be notified and scheduled for CPAT orientation and practice sessions based on need and placement on the eligible list. The next CPAT may be scheduled around early July, 2009. The background investigation process will most likely overlap with the CPAT process, and those candidates who pass both will begin the 10-week EMT training provided by the Fire Department in August, 2009. Those who successfully pass the EMT training will be given a pass/fail
medical examination, drug screen, and psychological evaluation.

This info is verbatim from the minutes but if you would like to read it yourself here is the link for the actual minutes
http://www.city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityFPC/Minutes/minutes_081218.pdf

[TangoTango]

Hey, just took some time to read the minutes from the Milwaukee Fire and Police Commission and guess what...there was actually some info pertaining to the process here. This should put most of the rumors surrounding Milwaukee to rest (i.e. that only 47 of 350 passed the CPAT):

The written test was given in August, and 3,897 candidates
participated out of the 5,712 who were invited to the test. The CPAT was given at Waukesha County Technical College in early November to the top 350 candidates (294 took the test, 243 passed).

The Commission decided to include the top half of those who passed the written test (approximately 3,500) in the testing process. Therefore, over 1,700 candidates will be invited to the oral examination and have the
potential of being included on the eligible list based on a composite of written and oral test scores. The oral examination is planned for late February, 2009, and the participation rate is estimated to be 80-90%. The oral examination question and rating criteria development is almost finished. A videotape process will be used to administer the examination. Approximately 15 rating panels will be trained and rate the candidates by videotape over a 2-3 week period in March, 2009. The eligible list will be compiled in April, 2009, based
on the written test (35%) and the oral examination (65%). Veteran’s preference, residency, and education points will be added at this point. There are currently about 90 vacancies to be filled.

Groups of candidates who have not already taken the CPAT will then be notified and scheduled for CPAT orientation and practice sessions based on need and placement on the eligible list. The next CPAT may be scheduled around early July, 2009. The background investigation process will most likely overlap with the CPAT process, and those candidates who pass both will begin the 10-week EMT training provided by the Fire Department in August, 2009. Those who successfully pass the EMT training will be given a pass/fail
medical examination, drug screen, and psychological evaluation.

This info is verbatim from the minutes but if you would like to read it yourself here is the link for the actual minutes
http://www.city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/Groups/cityFPC/Minutes/minutes_081218.pdf

Great find! Some useful stats in there. I found it odd that only 294/350 took the CPAT.