Kentucky Engine Burnover at Field Fire.

[coldfront]

Nov. 6th 2008

Elkton (KY) VFD Brush Engine is burnover on a field fire in Todd County.No other information available at this time.No injuries reported.The engine was overrun after winds changed.The engine was a 1990 ford 1 ton,it was a total loss.

[doughesson]

Nov. 6th 2008

Elkton (KY) VFD Brush Engine is burnover on a field fire in Todd County.No other information available at this time.No injuries reported.The engine was overrun after winds changed.The engine was a 1990 ford 1 ton,it was a total loss.

Someone's gonna be standing in front of the Chief with his hat in his hand explaining a simple one word question:"Why?"
Glad no one got hurt.

[Deputy10D9]

wow..at least no one was killed.
Any more info? Did the crew make a run for it? Deploy shelters?

[onlocation]

anyone seen that training video "Attack from the Black"
i know it doesnt deal with wooded areas really but it talks about fighting grass fires from the black and about the horror stories of those who didn't
pretty good training aide for department with grassland

[doughesson]

wow..at least no one was killed.
Any more info? Did the crew make a run for it? Deploy shelters?

When I was on a volunteer department outside of Paducah Ky,we were given wildland firefighting turnout gear,rakes,axes,flappers and the like but no shelters like they have out West.To my knowledge,nobody has seen a need to have them in wildland fires in that area,nor do I know from my most recent vist (9-08) if that has changed.coldfront might know.
I pray to God that no one has to learn the hard way.

[coldfront]

Onlocation is right about the attack from black DVD produce by the Texas Forest Service.If you run a grass/brush rig its a great training tool.

http://txforestservice.tamu.edu/main/article.aspx?id=2662

I do not have alot of information about the burnover in Elkton.When I get more information I will post it here.Some fire departments in Kentucky do have fire shelters for each seated postion on their brush trucks.They should be available to all kentucky firefighters running brush and grass calls.It a awareness issue for most departments. Not my department.It always happens to the others guys.

[BWTFD2]

I can tell you from experience that it only takes 1 time where you are close to needing a shelter to realizing that if your Dept. doesn't provide all the PPE that you need that you just go and buy one. I've been there done that. In Wi. the State of Wi. DNR now requires that all their personnel MUST have a shelter. They just started this in the last year. In the end you are responsible for your own safety. It doesn't matter the size of the fire, they all can kill you. A push needs to be made that all Firefighters need to have shelters regardless of state. All fuels that burn will hurt or kill you no matter where you live.

[Deputy10D9]

Here in NJ, we are all required to carry shelters. (state forest fire) We also carry a few spares on all of our trucks.

[RangerJake72]

in Florida, all of us in DOF are required to carry the new gen shelters on fire attack and mop up, municipal fire departments may or may not issue them (some wont issue brush gear), some of the cooperators have them (new or old style) they are heavy, cumbersome, and unfortunately not designed nor tested for the fuel types we have, esp. in south Florida

[ChiefKN]

Here in NJ, we are all required to carry shelters. (state forest fire) We also carry a few spares on all of our trucks.

Actually, in NJ you are only required to wear a shelter on federal land. The state does not issue shelters to anyone, there are some kept on the apparatus.

[MTWILDMAN]

Even in timber if you are working up close to the fire it is best to carry fire with you as you go. This is why I wish folks would at least get basic wildland training and stick to that training. I own and operate a wildland engine company under contract with the US Govt and our training and quals are more tightly inspected than most VFD's or Career Departments. We fight fire from here at home in Montana to FL - CA and everywhere in between. We need everyone to go home to their families and that means using or heads & our training.

TRAIN LIKE YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT.........BECAUSE IT DOES!!!!

[RangerJake72]

nothing wrong with carrying the line, but most muni departments are lucky to get S130 & 190 here (only because we (FL_DOF)) are starting to push the new Fire in the Field class for them, and that's not really enough to know about stringing fire. We try to teach the structure companies to catch spots and watch our back, let the fires burn up to our plow lines, and then knock it down if it looks like it will slop over, other wise protect structures in danger, an back us up. bare dirt or burned fuels stop the fires, water only goes so far

[MTWILDMAN]

nothing wrong with carrying the line, but most muni departments are lucky to get S130 & 190 here (only because we (FL_DOF)) are starting to push the new Fire in the Field class for them, and that's not really enough to know about stringing fire. We try to teach the structure companies to catch spots and watch our back, let the fires burn up to our plow lines, and then knock it down if it looks like it will slop over, other wise protect structures in danger, an back us up. bare dirt or burned fuels stop the fires, water only goes so far

Our company is in the process of training all new hires in ignition operations. We do a large amount of RX work in the spring which gives us a great training base. I also feel that basic ignition ops should be included in basic classes.

[Gnufsh]

Onlocation is right about the attack from black DVD produce by the Texas Forest Service.If you run a grass/brush rig its a great training tool.

http://txforestservice.tamu.edu/main/article.aspx?id=2662

I do not have alot of information about the burnover in Elkton.When I get more information I will post it here.Some fire departments in Kentucky do have fire shelters for each seated postion on their brush trucks.They should be available to all kentucky firefighters running brush and grass calls.It a awareness issue for most departments. Not my department.It always happens to the others guys.

Thanks for the link, I ordered a copy. Might be good for training my crew (or my volunteer dept...)

[volfirie]

All the new wildfire trucks we're being issued (similar in concept to the Cal Type III's) are fitted with drop down heat shields in the cab, and a sprinkler system all around the top edge of the truck. These are for burnovers. Mind you, we shouldn't be there in the first place, but it happens. The older trucks don't have those new features, so we're trained in a routine to get the water spraying over the truck. It works, we have burnovers at large fires. It can be very hard in the hill country to tell where the fire is going to go next.

Oh yes, we don't have those personal shelters.

[SilverCity4]

The only shelters I've ever seen in Oklahoma were carried by federal Foresty guys that were helping when the whole state burned in 2006.

How effective are shelters on a grass fire? I've seen the training videos on deploying them on forest fires, but never for a grass fire.

[Deputy10D9]

Actually, in NJ you are only required to wear a shelter on federal land. The state does not issue shelters to anyone, there are some kept on the apparatus.


Wow...thats a new one on me. We've been required to carry them on every fire for the last 5 or so years. Try calling the Trenton office with that and see what they say.

[ChiefKN]

Wow...thats a new one on me. We've been required to carry them on every fire for the last 5 or so years. Try calling the Trenton office with that and see what they say.

I've been with the FFS for 21 years, and in the northern part of the state it's still acceptable to wear jeans on the fireline. Shelters, definitly not required.

[Crwb4104]

The only shelters I've ever seen in Oklahoma were carried by federal Foresty guys that were helping when the whole state burned in 2006.

How effective are shelters on a grass fire? I've seen the training videos on deploying them on forest fires, but never for a grass fire.


I havn't ever deployed a shelter, (have co-workers that have, and I've been close, knock on wood), so this is all what I've learned and theory. Yes shelters work in grass fires under the same principles as in wooded areas, reflecting radiant heat and protecting breathable air inside the shelter.

I am shocked to hear that fire shelters are not required by all personnel on the fireline. If anyone has seen this, and knows why their particlular state does this, in Nevada you can't step foot on a fire without a shelter. Thanks.