Politics Defined!!

[ScareCrow57]

I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day.

Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, If you were President what would be the first thing you would do?

She replied, I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people. Her parents beamed.

Wow...what a worthy goal, I told her, but you don't have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50. Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked; Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50??

I said, Welcome to the Republican Party!

Her parents still aren't speaking to me

[scfire86]

You're not fooling anyone idiotboy. We all know you don't have any friends.

[ScareCrow57]

You're not fooling anyone idiotboy. We all know you don't have any friends.

Same old typical condescending liberal. Funny how if you don’t believe in what they believe in you are labeled an idiot. You aren’t fooling me Libby, I know when you try to denigrate people you are really saying you have no argument and cannot defend your stance.

[BryanLoader]

I recently asked my friend's little girl what she wanted to be when she grows up. She said she wanted to be President some day.

Both of her parents, liberal Democrats, were standing there, so I asked her, If you were President what would be the first thing you would do?

She replied, I'd give food and houses to all the homeless people. Her parents beamed.

Wow...what a worthy goal, I told her, but you don't have to wait until you're President to do that. You can come over to my house and mow the lawn, pull weeds, and sweep my driveway, and I'll pay you $50. Then I'll take you over to the grocery store where the homeless guy hangs out, and you can give him the $50 to use toward food and a new house.

She thought that over for a few seconds, then she looked me straight in the eye and asked; Why doesn't the homeless guy come over and do the work, and you can just pay him the $50??

I said, Welcome to the Republican Party!

Her parents still aren't speaking to me

That was good Crow. I diasgree with you strongly sometimes, but this one was bang on the money.

[scfire86]

Same old typical condescending liberal. Funny how if you don’t believe in what they believe in you are labeled an idiot. You aren’t fooling me Libby, I know when you try to denigrate people you are really saying you have no argument and cannot defend your stance.
What argument? The determination of you being an idiot was decided long ago. Hint: It didn't go in your favor.

[ScareCrow57]

What argument? The determination of you being an idiot was decided long ago. Hint: It didn't go in your favor.

Stupid is as Stupid Does... :rolleyes:

[ActionGoose]

This tired joke wasn't any better when I first heard it.

[txgp17]

You're not fooling anyone idiotboy. We all know you don't have any friends.That's all this jester has.
Personal attacks.
Editing other's posts when he quotes them.
Baseless claims founded only on rhetoric.
More of the same.

[scfire86]

That's all this jester has.
Personal attacks.
Editing other's posts when he quotes them.
Baseless claims founded only on rhetoric.
More of the same.
Much like your claim that Obama isn't a citizen.

Hey moonbat, do the black helicopters keep you awake at night?

[DaSharkie]

This tired joke wasn't any better when I first heard it.

But just as true as it always has been. Never an argument made against that point.

[scfire86]

But just as true as it always has been. Never an argument made against that point.
Not really. The story assumes that everyone has the same opportunities available to them.

That isn't the case in real life.

[ScareCrow57]

Not really. The story assumes that everyone has the same opportunities available to them.

That isn't the case in real life.

All men are created equal. In this country some people have more opportunities available to them do to preferential treatment via affirmative action programs.

Unfortunately, people born into welfare families are destined to become welfare recipients themselves. Not because they lack opportunity, but because this is the environment they grow up in. Without the proper motivation, they are doomed to fail.

[DaSharkie]

Not really. The story assumes that everyone has the same opportunities available to them.

You have more control over the events that occur in your life than anyone else. The individual chooses to use drugs or quit drugs, which grades to get in school, which jobs to take, which colleges to attend, which way to go in their life.

Nothing is guaranteed in life, you chart the vast majority of the path that you take in life. The world is loaded with people who have started at the bottom rungs of scoiety and done exceptionally well in their lives, rising to the top of their fields of study, work, and choice.

The nonsense of saying that those opportunities do not exist just gives people an excuse to hide behind. Roadblocks, closed doors, and other barriers are there to challenge you and make those that truly want something rise to the occasion.

So you were born to a single mother in the slums of Detroit with no male influence. So was Dr. Ben Carson, head of Pediatric Neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore.

So you were born to a single mother, lived below the poverty line all your childhood. You went to college, attended Yale Law School, went to Oxford, and became President William Jefferson Clinton.

You, as an individual, allow yourself to be beat down - or use it to motivate yourself to do better and bust your *** too do it. You can run with a gang, get shot and die on the street, or you study hard, go to college, and get out of that corrosive environment. The choice is the individual's, not society's.

Stop making excuses for people to use for making their own failures out of life, and tell them to bust your *** to make something out of yourself and provide more for your family.

That isn't the case in real life.

Only if you choose to not make it so.


I am by no means an optimist, but I am tired of being told that everyone cannot do it. It is a load of crap. You can do what you want if you push yourself to do it. Or you can fall to the wayside and let others pass you by. The choice is the individual's.

[ScareCrow57]

You have more control over the events that occur in your life than anyone else...

Truer words have never been spoken. I paid someone a lot of money one time to have them point that out to me. I can only control myself, I cannot control anyone else.

[scfire86]

You have more control over the events that occur in your life than anyone else. The individual chooses to use drugs or quit drugs, which grades to get in school, which jobs to take, which colleges to attend, which way to go in their life.

Really? So if I'm driving down the street and get hit by a drunk and now have to drive a wheelchair with a straw in my teeth, I had control over that. I can list any number of things that can happen to an individual that are beyond their control and would be life devastating.

I agree there are personal choices one makes. Becoming obese and then demanding to be treated via Medi-Care is one of them. I would have no problem having a fat tax for folks whose personal health and lifestyles will burden all of us as they get older. But telling someone how to live their life because of consequences like that is considered government intrusion by conservatives.

[DaSharkie]

Really? So if I'm driving down the street and get hit by a drunk and now have to drive a wheelchair with a straw in my teeth, I had control over that. I can list any number of things that can happen to an individual that are beyond their control and would be life devastating.

Don't play stupid, it is incredibly unbecoming of you. Do I really need to connect the dots for you? In case you choose to answer in the affirmative (which only proves that you lack basic common sense) I will do so.

In the case that you mentioned, you are covered under your personal healthcare, the driver's/owners automotive insurance, the driver's/owners umbrella insurance policy, the driver's/owner's personal assets, Medicaid, free-care, SSI, Medicare, and numerous other healthcare policies.

I can give you several names of people who have done well even though they are paralyzed. Christopher Reeves, Travis Roy, Stephen Hawking. Thousands of soldiers, sailors, airmen, Coast Guardsmen, and Marines from current and previous conflicts have done amazing things despite devastating lifetime injuries. Even Max Cleland, a former Democratic Senator from Georgia survived having 3 limbs literally blown off of him while in the military - confied to wheelchair he fought hard, overcam his injuries, and rose to be a seasoned, effective Senator. He chose to not let it keep him down - as have thousands of men and women throughout time.

If you are able-bodies, have no disability that limits your ability to work, then you can still make those choices to do what you want in life. You know it, but you choose to play stupid, even though you know exactly what point I was making - and you could not come up with an argument on fact, so you show your hypocracy and use the same hypotheticals that you berate others for using frequently. You just cannot stand being called on it, because in your mind you don't make mistakes and are never wrong. Are you?

I agree there are personal choices one makes. Becoming obese and then demanding to be treated via Medi-Care is one of them. I would have no problem having a fat tax for folks whose personal health and lifestyles will burden all of us as they get older.

Many people would say otherwise. Many find the thought of charging more for a person who chooses to smoke, be obese (lets face it - it is a choice), use heroin/crack/cocaine/meth, etc.., loathsome and say that it is unfair - despite the choice of folks to continue living in this manner while costing society an inordinate amount of money.

But telling someone how to live their life because of consequences like that is considered government intrusion by conservatives.

I am not telling anyone anything. Nor am I telling someone how to live their life. I am saying that prolonged, lifelong monetary distributions to an able-bodied, healthy person is not appropriate. I am not telling you anything, other than you need to get a job and stop living off of my money. I have a chronic, eventually debilitating disease myself which will only get progressively worse - despite modern medical advances..... You get a finite amount of resources as a hand up in life, they ought to expire after no more than 2 years. You can either do something, or do nothing - but the choice is yours.

[ScareCrow57]

Really? So if I'm driving down the street and get hit by a drunk and now have to drive a wheelchair with a straw in my teeth, I had control over that. I can list any number of things that can happen to an individual that are beyond their control and would be life devastating.

Even though you are in a wheel chair you can still be productive, ever hear of Steven Hawking?

There is a girl that works at the local DSS office who is crippled. Drives here nuts when these young kids come in and claim they can’t work because they can’t deal with people.


I agree there are personal choices one makes. Becoming obese and then demanding to be treated via Medi-Care is one of them. I would have no problem having a fat tax for folks whose personal health and lifestyles will burden all of us as they get older. But telling someone how to live their life because of consequences like that is considered government intrusion by conservatives.


Who determines what the perfect lifestyle is? Do we really want a society that strives to have all blonde haired, blue eyed, beach bum bodies? How about the dangers of eating too much granola? Or drinking too much milk? But what about the people who just put on weight because that is the way their body works. How about a surcharge for people who are too thin? Next question is who determines who is too fat or too thin? FYI. It doesn’t matter if you are conservative or liberal, the government telling you how to live your life is an intrusion of freedom.

[scfire86]

Even though you are in a wheel chair you can still be productive, ever hear of Steven Hawking?
Great example idiotboy. You continue to prove your stupidity has no bounds. Hawking was born with his disabilities. Like your credit card agreement, my point flew past you at warp speed.

There is a girl that works at the local DSS office who is crippled. Drives here nuts when these young kids come in and claim they can’t work because they can’t deal with people.
And how do you so much about the workings of the DSS office?

Who determines what the perfect lifestyle is? Do we really want a society that strives to have all blonde haired, blue eyed, beach bum bodies? How about the dangers of eating too much granola? Or drinking too much milk? But what about the people who just put on weight because that is the way their body works. How about a surcharge for people who are too thin? Next question is who determines who is too fat or too thin? FYI. It doesn’t matter if you are conservative or liberal, the government telling you how to live your life is an intrusion of freedom.
You truly are stupid. I would very much like to have your sense of freedom. However, those who purposely engage in unhealthy lifestyles because of their desire to have their "freedom" then shouldn't be allowed to impact others whose lifestyles are so self destructive. Yet that is precisely what happens. If someone seriously overweight so resented governmental intrusion concerning diet he or she should be willing to sign a waiver declining any and all government-funded medical care forever more, I think that would be more than fair.

[ScareCrow57]

Great example idiotboy. You continue to prove your stupidity has no bounds. Hawking was born with his disabilities. Like your credit card agreement, my point flew past you at warp speed.

Doesn't matter, he was still able to function, and many others have as well.

And how do you so much about the workings of the DSS office?

I have a good friend who works there and we converse on a daily basis. I get all the inside info on how screwed up the system is.

You truly are stupid. I would very much like to have your sense of freedom. However, those who purposely engage in unhealthy lifestyles because of their desire to have their "freedom" then shouldn't be allowed to impact others whose lifestyles are so self destructive. Yet that is precisely what happens. If someone seriously overweight so resented governmental intrusion concerning diet he or she should be willing to sign a waiver declining any and all government-funded medical care forever more, I think that would be more than fair.

So then by your rules we should also have gays pay a higher premium because they are at risk for AIDS. :rolleyes: Keep spinning.

[DaSharkie]

Great example idiotboy. You continue to prove your stupidity has no bounds.

Once again you prove yourself completely incapable of making a point or a post without insulting someone. Your hypocracy is so incredibly amazing it baffles the mind.

Hawking was born with his disabilities.

Hey skippy, might want to learn about something there. Dr. Hawking has a form of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis which struck him after he graduated from college - as it often does. Since then he completed his doctorate and became a pre-eminent physicist despite being paralyzed, requiring around the clock care, suffering numerous infections, and requiring a wheelchair to get around.

Pretty much makes my point for me doesn't it? Much like your hypocritical hypothetical guy struck by a drunk driver requiring the same level of care, he rose to the top of his field of study, has written numerous books, statements, and opinions, is respected and known around the world. I guess he should have just rolled over and cried "wo is me."

Don't you just hate it when your own ignorance on a subject gets turned right around on you to disprove your own point? Next time research the issue before you make a fool of yourself - then again you don't want to research a matter for your own self improvement.

Like your credit card agreement, my point flew past you at warp speed.

Aparently it did not, seeing as how you were wrong.

And how do you so much about the workings of the DSS office?

Another veiled insult. How pathetic.

Here is another. At my local RMV office, the manager (who is one of the nicest folks I have ever interacted with) was born deaf, partially paralyzed, partially blind, and with a speech impediment works harder every day, excels at customer care, and knows his and everyone else's job there backwards and forwards overcame the insults, tormenting, roadblocks, difficulties, and limitations society placed on him - because he wanted to.

Most people that I interact with who have severe disabilities are the same way. They refuse to suck off the tit of society and government and bust their *** to work and be productive. Perhaps you ought to be more observant of the same.

A girl who graduated the year before me in high school was in a car accident which left her paralyzed and confined to a wheelchair - while still in high school. She returned to school as soon as able to, and never let her disability beat her down. I guess you would have just wanted her to roll over and let life beat her down.

You truly are stupid.

More insults. So typical and predictable.

[scfire86]

Once again you prove yourself completely incapable of making a point or a post without insulting someone. Your hypocracy is so incredibly amazing it baffles the mind.
How is insulting idiotboy being hypocritical? If he were truly slighted he could claim slander in which case my only defense would be the truth. I dare him.

Hey skippy, might want to learn about something there. Dr. Hawking has a form of Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis which struck him after he graduated from college - as it often does. Since then he completed his doctorate and became a pre-eminent physicist despite being paralyzed, requiring around the clock care, suffering numerous infections, and requiring a wheelchair to get around.

Here is another. At my local RMV office, the manager (who is one of the nicest folks I have ever interacted with) was born deaf, partially paralyzed, partially blind, and with a speech impediment works harder every day, excels at customer care, and knows his and everyone else's job there backwards and forwards overcame the insults, tormenting, roadblocks, difficulties, and limitations society placed on him - because he wanted to.

A girl who graduated the year before me in high school was in a car accident which left her paralyzed and confined to a wheelchair - while still in high school. She returned to school as soon as able to, and never let her disability beat her down. I guess you would have just wanted her to roll over and let life beat her down.

All very interesting stories. And all very compelling in their desire to overcome adversity.

However earlier you said:

You have more control over the events that occur in your life than anyone else.


Did Hawking choose to have ALS? Did the RMV manager choose to be born partially deaf and paralyzed? Did your fellow HS alum choose to be hit by a car and confined to a wheelchair? I sincerely doubt the answer to any of those questions is "yes."

I never said those who have faced adversity don't or aren't capable of overcoming. The allegory that spawned this thread assumes we all start at the same place. My point is that isn't true and that is what makes this story a simplistic example put forth by morons to reinforce a point that is mythology.

[DaSharkie]

How is insulting idiotboy being hypocritical? If he were truly slighted he could claim slander in which case my only defense would be the truth. I dare him.

Because it wasn't more than a couple of years ago that I was telling folks to not insult you and you were whining about folks insulting you. That is how you are a hypocrate. We have had this discussion at least once before. Try to keep up.

All very interesting stories. And all very compelling in their desire to overcome adversity.

Instead of lay down and cry "wo is me" like you would have them do.

But you implied that they would not be able to make that choice to move forward and should wallow in self pity. How enlightening of you. How open minded of you. Remind me to never look to you for any amount of encouragement.

Did Hawking choose to have ALS? Did the RMV manager choose to be born partially deaf and paralyzed? Did your fellow HS alum choose to be hit by a car and confined to a wheelchair? I sincerely doubt the answer to any of those questions is "yes."

You are very bad at playing stupid, you know that was not the intent of the post.

You may not choose what happens to you in life by way of cancer, accidents, and disabilities, ut instead of rolling over and playing dead, sucking off of the tit of government, saying give me more, give me more, I need your pity, they chose to overcome the adversity that came about in their lives. You would rather they roll over and not be productive members of society? I eagerly await your typical non-answer. As usual.

By the way, you have not admitted that you were wrong yet about Professor Hawking. Not that I am surprised.

I never said those who have faced adversity don't or aren't capable of overcoming. The allegory that spawned this thread assumes we all start at the same place. My point is that isn't true and that is what makes this story a simplistic example put forth by morons to reinforce a point that is mythology.

I never said we started in the same place. Nor did the original poster (please show me where he said that, because it is not there.)

We choose what to do in our lives. Those with HIV choose to wallow in self pity or continue in their lives. Those with amputations choose to wallow in self pity or continue in their lives.

That is the entire point I made - apparently I did not explain that clearly enough for your enlightened mind to comprehend when I tried to that in my earlier post - or you chose to play stupid again (likely the latter since you do that frequently.)

So you got hit by a car. So you got a chronic disease. You choose what you are going to do in that moment. You choose to believe all the crap, nonsense, and tripe that because you are poor you have to stay poor. Because you are black you will never get out of Compton. Because you have lost one or two limbs you cannot do this or that. You choose to move forward or blame everyone else in the world because of where you are or end up.

You know that is the truth, but you would rather opt to defend the continual tripe and nonsense that allows others to stay down when no one is beating or keeping them down. You keep yourself down, or you pick yourself by the proverbial boot straps and keep going.

It is your choice, no one elses.

[scfire86]

Because it wasn't more than a couple of years ago that I was telling folks to not insult you and you were whining about folks insulting you. That is how you are a hypocrate. We have had this discussion at least once before. Try to keep up.
Point me to where I was whining. I was making the point that others complain of my insults after calling me every name in the book.

Instead of lay down and cry "wo is me" like you would have them do.
I've never any such thing.

But you implied that they would not be able to make that choice to move forward and should wallow in self pity. How enlightening of you. How open minded of you. Remind me to never look to you for any amount of encouragement.
Please don't. Encouragement from the outside is a luxury. One must be internally capable of encouragement in order to succeed against adversity.

You are very bad at playing stupid, you know that was not the intent of the post.
Not really. I made the point that not everyone has the same starting points which is the point of the allegory. You claimed that wasn't the case.

You may not choose what happens to you in life by way of cancer, accidents, and disabilities, ut instead of rolling over and playing dead, sucking off of the tit of government, saying give me more, give me more, I need your pity, they chose to overcome the adversity that came about in their lives. You would rather they roll over and not be productive members of society? I eagerly await your typical non-answer. As usual.
You're proving my point. Let me repeat myself. I stated the point of idiotboy's story is it assumes everyone has the same starting point. I claimed that isn't the case. You've cited numerous examples proving my point. More power to all those who've triumphed over the adversity they have endured. I've never faulted anyone for that character trait. I'm sorry if you fail to understand the meaning of my statement.

By the way, you have not admitted that you were wrong yet about Professor Hawking. Not that I am surprised.
I admit I was wrong. Feel better? I confused him with someone else.

I never said we started in the same place. Nor did the original poster (please show me where he said that, because it is not there.)
It's easy to see for those who want to understand the allegory.

We choose what to do in our lives. Those with HIV choose to wallow in self pity or continue in their lives. Those with amputations choose to wallow in self pity or continue in their lives.
I've known individuals who've triumphed over both. Met an HIV victim who was starting a 401-K. Something he didn't think he would have to worry about since he was told he was going to die in a very near time frame at the age of 27.

That is the entire point I made - apparently I did not explain that clearly enough for your enlightened mind to comprehend when I tried to that in my earlier post - or you chose to play stupid again (likely the latter since you do that frequently.)

So you got hit by a car. So you got a chronic disease. You choose what you are going to do in that moment. You choose to believe all the crap, nonsense, and tripe that because you are poor you have to stay poor. Because you are black you will never get out of Compton. Because you have lost one or two limbs you cannot do this or that. You choose to move forward or blame everyone else in the world because of where you are or end up.

All which are beyond the choices of the individual. Thanks again for proving my point.

You know that is the truth, but you would rather opt to defend the continual tripe and nonsense that allows others to stay down when no one is beating or keeping them down. You keep yourself down, or you pick yourself by the proverbial boot straps and keep going.

It is your choice, no one elses.
Some people don't even have boots as a starting point. What about them?

[DaSharkie]

Point me to where I was whining. I was making the point that others complain of my insults after calling me every name in the book.

Which makes you a hypocrate. You don't insult others just because they insult you, especially when you don't like it.

I've never any such thing.

Gonna have to clarify whatever the hell it was you were trying to say here.

Please don't. Encouragement from the outside is a luxury. One must be internally capable of encouragement in order to succeed against adversity.

Encouragement is not a luxury. It is something you get or don't get. You either pick yourself up or move on. Dr. Hawking - sinc ehe was your example - was told all along that he would not be successful. Guess he was not getting that 'luxury." Everyone is capable of that internal "luxury" it is a matter of whether you choose to do it or not. Hence it is a personal choice. You can either let yourself be beat down, or push yourself to succeed. Your choice.

Not really. I made the point that not everyone has the same starting points which is the point of the allegory. You claimed that wasn't the case.

And no one here, except you, implied that everyone had the same starting point. Once again, you choose to NOT point out in the story where that was mentioned. No one will have the same starting point, but what you choose to do with life, life's hardships, the difficulties and joys in life is an individual choice. Do you choose to stay on welfare, or do you choose to go to college? Do you choose to wallow in self pity, or do you choose to get out of the situation you are in? It is a personal choice.

Unlike you, instead of continuing to beat a person down and tell them they cannot do it alone, I would rather push a person forward, help them up, and might even perhaps show them a way to do it. Think about it.

You're proving my point. Let me repeat myself. I stated the point of idiotboy's story is it assumes everyone has the same starting point. I claimed that isn't the case. You've cited numerous examples proving my point. More power to all those who've triumphed over the adversity they have endured. I've never faulted anyone for that character trait. I'm sorry if you fail to understand the meaning of my statement.

Again, what starting point in the story? There isn't one. One is a small child, and one is an adult. Both make choices or have made choices. I am sure that most homeless people were not born that way, it was a choice (to an extent) that they made, and/or continue to make.

I do understand your point, I am just saying that you can either pick yourself up or stay down. Your choice.

I admit I was wrong. Feel better? I confused him with someone else.

Now was that so difficult? I don't fell better, just wanted you to admit your error - something that I have never seen you do.

It's easy to see for those who want to understand the allegory.

I understood it quite well, I am still looking for where the same starting point comes into it, and why you think we believe that is what is going on here.

I've known individuals who've triumphed over both. Met an HIV victim who was starting a 401-K. Something he didn't think he would have to worry about since he was told he was going to die in a very near time frame at the age of 27.

Thank you for proving my point. He made a choice. Imagine that. Such a novel concept.

And HIV infected people are not "victims", they are infected with a virus.

All which are beyond the choices of the individual. Thanks again for proving my point.

Never said they weren't. Perhaps I need to connect the dots for you again. No one said they weren't. We said they could either choose to be kept down, be pushed down, be run over, or get up, dust themselves off, and move forward.

Regardless of where you start off in life, you can choose where you are going to go.

Some people don't even have boots as a starting point. What about them?

You find a pair of boots. And start walking. (Hopefully I do not need to explain that one to you.)

[ScareCrow57]

Gonna have to clarify whatever the hell it was you were trying to say here.

That happens a lot. He spins so fast even he doesn't know what he is saying ;)


Encouragement is not a luxury. It is something you get or don't get. You either pick yourself up or move on. Dr. Hawking - sinc ehe was your example - was told all along that he would not be successful. Guess he was not getting that 'luxury." Everyone is capable of that internal "luxury" it is a matter of whether you choose to do it or not. Hence it is a personal choice. You can either let yourself be beat down, or push yourself to succeed. Your choice.

Actually, Doctor Hawking was my example.

And no one here, except you, implied that everyone had the same starting point. Once again, you choose to NOT point out in the story where that was mentioned. No one will have the same starting point, but what you choose to do with life, life's hardships, the difficulties and joys in life is an individual choice. Do you choose to stay on welfare, or do you choose to go to college? Do you choose to wallow in self pity, or do you choose to get out of the situation you are in? It is a personal choice.

Once again, I actually stated that "all men are created equal", after all, let's give credit where credit is do. And I stand by that statement. Of course, what happens to you after you are created is what determines how you succeed in life. One can choose to work hard and lift themselves up or they can blame someone else and take the low road. Granted, not all people have the same mental or physical abilities. But everyone can use their god given abilities to be the best that they can be.

Unlike you, instead of continuing to beat a person down and tell them they cannot do it alone, I would rather push a person forward, help them up, and might even perhaps show them a way to do it. Think about it.

I am reminded here of an excellent saying - Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach the man to fish and feed him for life.

[/quote]Again, what starting point in the story? There isn't one. One is a small child, and one is an adult. Both make choices or have made choices. I am sure that most homeless people were not born that way, it was a choice (to an extent) that they made, and/or continue to make.[/quote]

That is another thing I don't understand. If I go to the local DSS office and say I have no place to sleep and no food, they have to put me in a shelter and give me food. I'm inclined to believe that those who are homeless and living in the streets choose that lifestyle instead of taking the governments help.

[scfire86]

That happens a lot. He spins so fast even he doesn't know what he is saying ;)
Which really means you lack the ability to keep up.

[scfire86]

Encouragement is not a luxury. It is something you get or don't get. You either pick yourself up or move on. Dr. Hawking - sinc ehe was your example - was told all along that he would not be successful. Guess he was not getting that 'luxury." Everyone is capable of that internal "luxury" it is a matter of whether you choose to do it or not. Hence it is a personal choice. You can either let yourself be beat down, or push yourself to succeed. Your choice.
Hawking was the example used by idiotboy. Read the posts again.

And no one here, except you, implied that everyone had the same starting point.
The story that started this thread implies that as well.

Again, what starting point in the story? There isn't one. One is a small child, and one is an adult. Both make choices or have made choices. I am sure that most homeless people were not born that way, it was a choice (to an extent) that they made, and/or continue to make.
I dealt with enough homeless people to know that you never know what caused them to be in that situation.

I do understand your point, I am just saying that you can either pick yourself up or stay down. Your choice.
Not really. I've shown several examples where folks have their lives thrust upon them.


Thank you for proving my point. He made a choice. Imagine that. Such a novel concept.

And HIV infected people are not "victims", they are infected with a virus.
Except my example was someone who contracted HIV back before there was adequate screening of the blood supply. He's not gay. Though I'm sure that's what you immediately thought. I guess he chose that according to you.

You find a pair of boots. And start walking. (Hopefully I do not need to explain that one to you.)
That assumes there's a pair lying around. Unless you steal them.

[ScareCrow57]

I dealt with enough homeless people to know that you never know what caused them to be in that situation.

But no one should be homeless, they are homeless by choice. Just got to your local DSS and they will put you up in a hotel. Single people get sent to a mission, and when they hear they they decline the assistance.

Not really. I've shown several examples where folks have their lives thrust upon them.

Yes, I have shown one as well, MINE!!!!

Except my example was someone who contracted HIV back before there was adequate screening of the blood supply. He's not gay. Though I'm sure that's what you immediately thought. I guess he chose that according to you.

Anecdotal :rolleyes:

[DaSharkie]

Hawking was the example used by idiotboy. Read the posts again.

Man, what the hell is with you being incapable of posting without insulting or demeaning someone?

So he did. I have no problem admitting my errors - unlike you.

The story that started this thread implies that as well.

Show me where? It shows a girl asking a question, says nothing about where someone starts. Admit it.

I dealt with enough homeless people to know that you never know what caused them to be in that situation.

I deal with enough homeless folks on a daily basis to know that I have seen people pull themselves up, to push themselves forward. Regardless of what led them there. Dealt with and deal with are two different stages in life - one is past tense, and on is ongoing.

And it does not matter what got them there, or what gets them there. It is what they choose to do when they get there. Perhaps you ignore the homeless Harvard student who graduated last year - spent most of his college life being homeless, while attending one of the most liberal colleges in the world, with the largest endowment of any school in the world.

People choose to move forward, or to remain in the status quo. Their choice. How many times do I have to explain this to you before it actually sinks into your brain. I do not think I can make it any simpler, but I just might have to come up with a way to do it.

Not really. I've shown several examples where folks have their lives thrust upon them.

And I have shown several examples of where those with those events thrust upon them refused to listen to naysayers like you and overcame the very adversity that you point out. You seem to rather have them become unproductive members of society, and I say they have the opportunity to do anything that they are both physically and mentally capable of - regardless of what has been thrust upon them, where they were born, how they were raised, or what some person would tell them they cannot do.

Except my example was someone who contracted HIV back before there was adequate screening of the blood supply. He's not gay. Though I'm sure that's what you immediately thought. I guess he chose that according to you.

I know people who contracted HIV from medical procedures, I know people who contracted it while practicing medicine, I know people who contracted it from having sex with infected individuals. Considering that in the United States there is still a 1 in 300,000 risk of contracting HIV from our blood supply - even though we test every person who donates blood, and every unit of blood we collect in this nation. Don't forget that the largest groups of people with a growing HIV infection are those under the age of 25, gay men, and the elderly population (the latter for a variety of reasons.)

As usual, you assume that I thought the guy was gay. I did not, you likely won't believe me, but that is fine - you ought to be used to being wrong and not admitting it by now.

HAART regimens for HIV have come a long way from when we both witnessed HIV and AIDS arise in the early to mid 1980s from a 20 pill regimen a day to a single pill daily regimen that is well-tolerated. Thankfully we have turned HIV and AIDS into a relatively chronic disease, from the ravage that it initially was.

People with HIV are still not victims. Your example chose to move forward. He contracted a disease, sadly enough. But he, by your own statement, chose to move forward, as hard as it was, as much adversity as was placed in his way, he chose to not let it keep him down. I guess you would rather that he did so.

That assumes there's a pair lying around. Unless you steal them.

Or you find a way to acquire a pair without breaking the law. Perhaps he might even be able to find a used pair or ask someone for help. Instead, you would rather have them just roll over and wallow in self pity.

[DaSharkie]

Which really means you lack the ability to keep up.

Or that you did not speak clearly. You evidently did not read the post, because it does not make any sense, and cannot be linked to any post made.

[DaSharkie]

Actually, Doctor Hawking was my example.

Understood. Amazing when one can admit they are wrong without having to be hounded and pointed out numerous times isn't it scfire?

Once again, I actually stated that "all men are created equal", after all, let's give credit where credit is do. And I stand by that statement.

Actually, great men more than 200 years ago said that, and now everyone needs a handout from the government right scfire?

I am reminded here of an excellent saying - Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach the man to fish and feed him for life.

Now now, no using common sense, even if it is true. No use of the Bible to battle with a Liberal. They don't like it.

That is another thing I don't understand. If I go to the local DSS office and say I have no place to sleep and no food, they have to put me in a shelter and give me food. I'm inclined to believe that those who are homeless and living in the streets choose that lifestyle instead of taking the governments help.

Come on, scfire would rather a person just roll over and milk the federal, state, and local governments instead of bettering themselves, moving forward, and making something of themselves - regardless of what life throws at them - short of being a vegetable.

[scfire86]

Understood. Amazing when one can admit they are wrong without having to be hounded and pointed out numerous times isn't it scfire?



Actually, great men more than 200 years ago said that, and now everyone needs a handout from the government right scfire?



Now now, no using common sense, even if it is true. No use of the Bible to battle with a Liberal. They don't like it.



Come on, scfire would rather a person just roll over and milk the federal, state, and local governments instead of bettering themselves, moving forward, and making something of themselves - regardless of what life throws at them - short of being a vegetable.
Is there a reason you responded to idiotboy while asking me questions?

I've never said anyone should roll over and milk the state in perpetuity. I believe there should be safety nets, not hammocks. You're the one who claims that I believe people should milk the state. My point is not everyone starts at the same place. Which is what this story assumes.

If you don't understand that, you're not much brighter than idiotboy.

[gamewell35]

Is there a reason you responded to idiotboy while asking me questions?

If you don't understand that, you're not much brighter than idiotboy.

He has a bad habit of doing that; furthermore I believe his true motives are not of having rational discussion.

[ScareCrow57]

The fact is, it all comes down to one thing. Do you want your government to provide for you and tell you what to do. The more government gets into your life the less freedom you have. If you desire socialism or communism then go where they have it, America became the worlds greatest nation because of our capitalistic views and our free society. There is no way anyone with at least half a brain can argue otherwise.

[ScareCrow57]

He has a bad habit of doing that; furthermore I believe his true motives are not of having rational discussion.

If you are referring to Dasharkie he has put forth some very compelling arguments, facts, and logic. And all you get form SC is some adolescent one liner, the second liberal, nozzlehead, usually offers up something incoherent, and the third liberal, (that is you) is rarely heard from. Of the three, you seem to offer up the best arguments but are rarely heard.

[gamewell35]

If you are referring to Dasharkie he has put forth some very compelling arguments, facts, and logic. And all you get form SC is some adolescent one liner, the second liberal, nozzlehead, usually offers up something incoherent, and the third liberal, (that is you) is rarely heard from. Of the three, you seem to offer up the best arguments but are rarely heard.

Granted he may at times, but i've noticed other times in my opinion, he's meanspirited, condensending or otherwise irrational. Aside from that I'm sure he's a nice guy. But that's really all i want to say on him; this threads not about him but politics defined.

[DaSharkie]

He has a bad habit of doing that; furthermore I believe his true motives are not of having rational discussion.

Whatever pal. I am not the one who routinely insults people of other opinions, refuses to answer questions when asked of him - while demanding others answer his, and back my arguments up with facts, instead of tripe and nonsense from less than reputable sites, and who knows what else.

You don't exactly do much better.

My motives - not that you'll choose to believe me - are to educate others, and break down the nonsense that is spewed forth by those who don't know what they are talking about.

[DaSharkie]

Is there a reason you responded to idiotboy while asking me questions?

Yes there is.

I've never said anyone should roll over and milk the state in perpetuity. I believe there should be safety nets, not hammocks. You're the one who claims that I believe people should milk the state.

Until now you never did. Yet people here have been saying that no one should be on it for a very long time, but you never mentioned that until now. Since you never addressed the matter, despite numerous proddings to do so, how am I suposed to pull away anything from that?

My point is not everyone starts at the same place.

And I, and no one else here, ever said they did. We only said that it is up to the individual to choose what they will do with their lives, and offered up numerous examples of people starting from adversity, poverty, and life events and chose to bust their butt and accomplish something.

Meanwhile, you opted to offer up hypotheticals - while you insult and deride others for doing so. Like I have been saying, you are a hypocrate.

Which is what this story assumes.

No it does not. It is what you assume - and I have asked you point out where you get this on several occasions, and you opt to not address the matter.

If you don't understand that, you're not much brighter than idiotboy.

Whatever you say. You are (almost) always right.

[DaSharkie]

Granted he may at times, but i've noticed other times in my opinion, he's meanspirited, condensending or otherwise irrational. Aside from that I'm sure he's a nice guy. But that's really all i want to say on him; this threads not about him but politics defined.

How am I meanspirited? I do not insult others, do not demean others, do not talk down to anyone, and provide points backed up by facts in my arguments.

You, Nozzle, and scfire offer up hypotheticals, insults, derision, assumptions, and unsupported points in an argument.

It is also apparently acceptable for your fellow liberals to insult others, show their meanspiritedness, be condescending, and irrational, but not those with an opposing view to yours. Amazing hypocracy.

I gave up caring what people really think about me a long time ago. Rest assured that I will lose no sleep over telling anyone what I think, how I feel, or what their reaction to it might be.

And if the thread is not about me, why did you make your post about me?

[ScareCrow57]

How am I meanspirited? I do not insult others, do not demean others, do not talk down to anyone, and provide points backed up by facts in my arguments.

You, Nozzle, and scfire offer up hypotheticals, insults, derision, assumptions, and unsupported points in an argument.

It is also apparently acceptable for your fellow liberals to insult others, show their meanspiritedness, be condescending, and irrational, but not those with an opposing view to yours. Amazing hypocracy.

I gave up caring what people really think about me a long time ago. Rest assured that I will lose no sleep over telling anyone what I think, how I feel, or what their reaction to it might be.

And if the thread is not about me, why did you make your post about me?

You mean you don’t use terms like moonbat, idiotboy, pelosi and reid?

[DaSharkie]

You mean you don’t use terms like moonbat, idiotboy, pelosi and reid?

Nope. Like most ideologues (on both sides of the aisle) when encountered by facts and shown to be wrong, you get insulted.

Don't you just love the free flow of ideas and "open-mindedness" of some people?

[scfire86]

Don't you just love the free flow of ideas and "open-mindedness" of some people?

You mean like your claim that I believe people should say "woe is me" and live off the government the rest of their lives despite the fact I never said any such thing.

The point you keep missing is my claim that people don't have the same starting point in life or the same opportunities. You seem to believe that isn't true.

Fair enough. It's a free country, you're allowed to have that opinion.

[DaSharkie]

You mean like your claim that I believe people should say "woe is me" and live off the government the rest of their lives despite the fact I never said any such thing.

And unlike you, I have dropped that issue once you actually addressed it. You did, after all, leave me no other choice but to come to that conclusion from your posts.

You said that people could not overcome adversity in their lives and the government needed to step in and take care of them. I said that they did not have to lie down and suck off the tit of government and listed at least a half dozen people I knew personally or know of that did not let the disastrous events in their lives keep them down. Then you went into your hypocritical hypotheticals.

The point you keep missing is my claim that people don't have the same starting point in life or the same opportunities. You seem to believe that isn't true.

Apparently you are incapable of comprehending plain English. I never once said that we all have the same startign points in life. I said we all have the ability to move forward from our starting points and overcome each and every obstacle that others put up in our way.

I have also never said that it is not true. We are born. Whether we be born dirt poor, poor, eating off a silver spoon, or wallowing in $100 bills. You choose what you will do with your life, regardless of your birth circumstances or what occurs in your life.

The individual has the most control over what happens in their life and which direction their life will take.

And I have asked you multiple times to point out where I said what you accuse me of saying, but like most of your arguments you do not substantiate it with facts. I am not really surprised.

Fair enough. It's a free country, you're allowed to have that opinion.

I don't need your permission to have my opinion. Free will is a beautiful thing.

[ScareCrow57]

You mean like your claim that I believe people should say "woe is me" and live off the government the rest of their lives despite the fact I never said any such thing.

The point you keep missing is my claim that people don't have the same starting point in life or the same opportunities. You seem to believe that isn't true.

Fair enough. It's a free country, you're allowed to have that opinion.

You have never said that explicitly, but it is implied in all of your messages. Will you at least admit that there are generations of lifers living off the government and something has to be done about them. My solution is to do away with food stamps and replace that with a box of food that is picked out for you. Eliminate sending people to hotels, send them to a county owned building where they cook for themselves, pick up after themselves, and have no TV. Reduce payment to people who use the system more than once in a 4 year period. In other words, punish the lifers. Make SSD income non-exempt. And use a graduated system of payments, not a pass fail.

[ActionGoose]

You have never said that explicitly, but it is implied in all of your messages. Will you at least admit that there are generations of lifers living off the government and something has to be done about them. My solution is to do away with food stamps and replace that with a box of food that is picked out for you. Eliminate sending people to hotels, send them to a county owned building where they cook for themselves, pick up after themselves, and have no TV. Reduce payment to people who use the system more than once in a 4 year period. In other words, punish the lifers. Make SSD income non-exempt. And use a graduated system of payments, not a pass fail.

I'm sure there are people like you describe, but you are doing an incredible job of inflating them to suit your moral crusade. According to the GAO, 98% of benefits went to eligible households, and only 4% were considered to be overpaid (and this number is falling).

[scfire86]

I'm sure there are people like you describe, but you are doing an incredible job of inflating them to suit your moral crusade. According to the GAO, 98% of benefits went to eligible households, and only 4% were considered to be overpaid (and this number is falling).
Don't confuse idiotboy with facts. He wants to believe all those needing handouts are actually living on MTV Cribs.

[DaSharkie]

Don't confuse idiotboy with facts. He wants to believe all those needing handouts are actually living on MTV Cribs.

Like you make arguments based on facts yourself. I needed a good laugh from a hypocrate this morning.

[ScareCrow57]

I'm sure there are people like you describe, but you are doing an incredible job of inflating them to suit your moral crusade. According to the GAO, 98% of benefits went to eligible households, and only 4% were considered to be overpaid (and this number is falling).

Never said they weren't eligible. The problem is it is to easy to get benefits especially for those who know how to work the system. My friend works at the DSS in chronic medicaid. She likes that a bit better than dealing with the same old low life's. Ask anyone who works there, they will tell you about how screwed up the system is. They will also tell you it is the same people coming in all the time. It is supposed to be a temporary assistance. I have seen people refuse jobs becuase they make more on public assistance, although I think that has changed.

[ScareCrow57]

Don't confuse idiotboy with facts. He wants to believe all those needing handouts are actually living on MTV Cribs.

:rolleyes: I'm still waiting for yo to produce facts and research. P.S. The Huffington post is not a good source. I have no idea what an MTV crib is so I can't address that. What I can tell you is that there are many out there who have learned to work the system such that they get temporary assistance for life.

Perhaps you should get a job at the local DSS and learn what really goes on.

[scfire86]

:rolleyes: I'm still waiting for yo to produce facts and research. P.S. The Huffington post is not a good source. I have no idea what an MTV crib is so I can't address that. What I can tell you is that there are many out there who have learned to work the system such that they get temporary assistance for life.

Perhaps you should get a job at the local DSS and learn what really goes on.
You were just cited facts by the GAO regarding those on public assistance. I'm sure it's run by the liberal MSM bogeyman as well.

[DaSharkie]

You were just cited facts by the GAO regarding those on public assistance. I'm sure it's run by the liberal MSM bogeyman as well.

No, a statement was made. in order him to "cite facts" Goose would have had to post a link in order to verify that the quoted numbers were indeed from a government report. Conveniently, this was not done. Kind of like dealing with your posts. At least we addressthe matter when "facts" are introduced. You, on the other hand, do not.

Considering the loopholes and ways the Medicaid/SSI rules are written, almost anyone can get this money - all you have to do is have someone write the recommendations for it. There is a huge industry of lawyers, medical professionals, and other personnel who exist solely to help this happen.

This is why we have 23 year olds disabled with "Fibromyalgia."

[txgp17]

You were just cited facts by the GAO regarding those on public assistance. I'm sure it's run by the liberal MSM bogeyman as well.Hey libtard. How's that case going that proves the Iraq war cost $3,000,000,000,000.00?

[scfire86]

Hey libtard. How's that case going that proves the Iraq war cost $3,000,000,000,000.00?
Pretty good. (http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2450753720071024) I'm a lot closer in my claim than you are with yours.

[txgp17]

Pretty good. (http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN2450753720071024) I'm a lot closer in my claim than you are with yours.That article reads:

"The U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion by 2017..."

And now you resort to rolling the cost of a war in another county to pad your still incorrect figure. It's an estimate of two separate wars 8 years into the future. At least you're consistent with your propaganda.

Just two months ago you said...Current allocations to the Iraq war are already in excess of $600B so your figure is your typically stupid nonsense. Nothing is more stupid than a liar who boasts a grossly exaggerated figure, then posts links that contradicts his own libtarded statements.

Thanks for taking the time to prove yourself wrong again libtard.

[scfire86]

See response here. (http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1070300&postcount=26)