chain saws vs. k-12 saws for pitched roof ventilation

[telehead]

i am trying to get my captaain to buy some chain saws for performing ventilation on pitched roofs. I believe the are benificial becuase they are quicker for performing there operation and getting off the roof quicker. he believes that the k-12 saw is safer any suggestions?

[Capt68]

I would have to say that the Chainsaws are a lot more safe then K-12s. I look at it from the aspect of being able to stop the blade, and as you know (unless there is something new out there) there is no way to stop the blade of the K-12 saw. The chainsaws we use have a lever right next to your hand that will shut down the blade immediately if engaged. I found this very useful recently when we had an attic fire and I was standing on 2 floor joists opening up a wall. My foot slipped and I went through the dry wall of the floor beneath me. When I was falling I hit the bar lock and thank God I did because the blade ended up sitting on my leg when I stopped. That is why I like the chain saw but the K-12 is also good and has its place, but I would consider it at all safe. Ryan

------------------
62 Engine 67 Truck ... The Pride of the West Side

[Looper]

For us, chainsaws are the weapon of choice when doing roof ventilation. A K-12/XL-98 will do the job, but the chainsaw is lighter and more manuverable. We use 16" Craftsman chainsaws, bought from Sears for about $150 each -- we got tired of repairing our Echo vent saws. Just keep sharp blades on them and they work fine. We still carry several of the circular rescue saws, but mostly use them for cutting metal (like fences around apartments & burglar bars).

[apatrol]

K-12's weight also can be a factor to consider. Chainsaw's are lighter and make those high peeked roofs easier to vent...

[ENGINE18-3]

I would have to go with the chainsaw with the special angled blade. But most of the time the saws don't like to work when you get them on the roof so give me an axe and I'll go to town.

------------------
The statements above are my own opinions

FF Greg Grudzinski
Oaklyn Fire Dept.
Station 18-3

[Hamy91]

Chain saw will win in my book every time. K-12's are good for trench ventilation of a mall or warehouse but as far as pitched roof they are not as safe.

Chain saws for the fire service can come equipted with a depth gauge. K-12 does not to my knowledge. Chain saws have emergency stops.

The bottom line is do you want to have to carry and operate a 20-30 pound K-12 two floors or three floors up when you can use a 10-15 pound chain saw.

There are some departments that use a circular saw, like a Craftsman. Very light. No fuel mixtures to mess with and if there is a problem just unplug it. It is quick, efficent and safe.

------------------
Hamy91

FIrefighters are the chosen people.
_________________________

My views do not reflect that of my department or the United States Air Force

[RescueCoFireman]

There is a more recent post on this topic but doesn't anyone use an axe anymore?

Glen Bordas
FFII/EMT-B

[This message has been edited by RescueCoFireman (edited 12-27-2000).]

[ALSfirefighter]

I have to agree with my brothers. I have always preferred the chainsaw over the k-12 for peaked roof ventilation, and any other type of saw needing ventilation/operation that a chainsaw is feasible. I have used everything from Stihl's, Cutter's Edge, and Craftsman. But I have to honestly say that overall I have always liked the Echo Quickvent. While the first couple of them we had, we experienced some minor problems with breakage (mostly with the braking mechinism)the newer models we have had no problems with. It is light, easy to handle, and the guide bar on the bottom of the saw prevents some of the senior guys, and the rookies from digging into the roofs deeper than necessary. Solving the problem of trusses. I have never run into anyone in my career who thought the K-12 was safer. Its heavy, had no blade brake, and from my experience, is harder to train firefighters to use it effectively. I have had 8 years of experience on a ladder truck, and 9 times out of 10...its the chainsaw.

-----------------------------
The above are my thoughts and opinions only, and do not reflect that of any dept./agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of.
http://www.firehouse.com/forums/biggrin.gif

[ME93]

I would prefer a chain saw over a K-12 any day on a pitched roof. Especially the cutters edge. It is made specifically for firefighting. If you have the money purchase one of these babies. It's pretty expensive but worth it in the long run.

------------------
Fishers Fire Dept.
FF/Medic
Local 416

[David Polikoff]

Build a roof simulator. Use both saws give them both an honest test. If you use the partner K950 saw with a 24 tooth carbide tip blade vs. a chain saw with a bullet chain, you will see that the K950 will cut faster and in the end you will be off the roof quicker. in this day with the light weight construction we need to spend as little time on roofs as possible. You will also find that if you are cutting through more than one roof the chain saw will start to bog down due to the excess tar. I will tell you that the K950 is heavier than the chain saw. The only way for you to make a true decision is to have a vender from both companies come out and make a head to head comparison.

[FFCode3EMT]

My department uses the chainsaw for pitched roof ventilation. It is easier to use with the angled blade and depth gauge, and safter with the bar lock, compared to the K-12. The K-12 is still useful and has many applications, just not pitched roofs.

------------------
**The preceding comments in no way represent the views of my department, its members, or associations that it may belong to.**

[TXFIRE6]

Chainsaws without a doubt for pitched roofs. K-12's have their place for heavier application, but not on a pitched roof.K-12's are difficult to handle at times, throw a pitch in there, and you could hae problems. Echo Quick-vent work well on pitched roofs. They are quick, easy to use, lightweight, and its easy to control depth of cut.

------------------
Any Opinion expressed, are my own, and do not reflect my Department...RB

[airpack]

Chiansaws with a carbide chain are by far the best choice for pitched roof. Chainsaws with a normal chain are virtually useless after you make contact with shingles. But if you like to swing things (safely of course) try a 10lb. shorter than normal handle sledge. It often will work better than an axe. What we did is bought a regular sledge, cut the handle to comfy working length, spiral wrapped coax cable around the handle with athletic tape,and wala you have an inexpensive very useful vent tool.

[E1114]

I prefer a chainsaw over the K 12 on pitched roofs for ease of use. Unfortunately a chainsaw is not much use if the roof covering is not removed. All to often we get in a hurry and cut through the shingles which gums up and dulls the blade. Then the K 12 makes it to the roof to finish the job.

[MB1213635]

Personally, I'm taking a circular saw...Partner K-650 or K-950 to be exact. They might be heavier than a chainsaw but with some practice I can get through a roof quicker. I have also found that chainsaws bog down more often then circular saws. Whichever saw I take my axe is still going with me.

[FWDbuff]

In honor of the 10th anniversary of fh.com............:eek: :D

[Weruj1]

we are looking at these :http://www.stihllibrary.com/flash/MS460R/main.swf

[ajpettis3]

There are some good points made through this about both the K-12 and the chainsaw. My dept. has 1 chainsaw and 7 K-12 saws. All the K-12's are set up for different things. Some for wood, some for steel, and some for concrete. It all depends what you train with. Some prefer the chainsaw because of the weight difference, but i prefer the K-12. It has always been reliable and gotten the job done. Use what you are more comfortable with and train with it.

P.S.- For the comment made about there is no way to stop the blade on a K-12, I do not agree with. When you are cutting, all you need to do is take your finger off of the throttle and bury your blade.

[Dave1983]

All of our rigs carry both, but the chain-saw is by far the most utilized.

[Northeast68]

P.S.- For the comment made about there is no way to stop the blade on a K-12, I do not agree with. When you are cutting, all you need to do is take your finger off of the throttle and bury your blade.


Perhaps bury it in your leg...

I think his point is that there is no mechanical safety device to stop the blade, and I have to agree that the chainsaw is faster and safer.

I imagine most of you have seen the video of the roof being vented with a sledge faster than with an axe. (For all you "traditionalists").

Also hoping that the previous 2 posters realize this thread is older than some of the nut bags that frequent these here forums.

[volfireman034]

what is the best blade for the chain saws that won't clog up or dull fast?

[Dave1983]

what is the best blade for the chain saws that won't clog up or dull fast?


You use a blade on your chain-saw? No wonder it clogs. :D

[don120]

what is the best blade for the chain saws that won't clog up or dull fast?

Bullit chain.....$$$$$$$$


Don

[WD6956]

http://www.cuttersedge.com/Products/BULLETChain/tabid/78/Default.aspx

[bneice]

In my opinion I prefer the K-12 to the chainsaw. I'm a former mason and hodd carrier and we'd use'm all the time to cut anything in front of us. They are heavy but..... they can take a beating. Chainsaws are a one trick pony and require a ton of maintenance so for smaller departments it's more bang for the buck to purchase one K-12 with some cut all blades.

[nnjfmba]

Chainsaws are used for cutting tree limbs that fall on cars and similar situations. On my shift you will carry the K-12 to the roof, and if you can't take the weight you belong on an engine. Other shifts at my department have taken the chainsaw and sometimes it worked and sometimes they had problems. Try cutting through 2-3 layers of shingles with a chain and see how far you get.

In addition you don't need to worry about what the depth gauge is set on or if the chainsaw even has one. A k-12 will not allow too deep of a cut if you miss a rafter and don't pull up on the saw. The blade cover allows only about 4 inches of cutting, and for all the people who don't understand how you stop the blade, you bury it in the roof.

[nbrown9333]

This saw was mentioned in the thread. We use one and it works great! It replaced our old cutters edge chainsaw which worked great to, but the Stihl service center is next door to us. Just make sure you use it with the Rapid duro rescue chain or "RDR" (costs about $175). As for Chainsaw vs K12, I prefer a chainsaw for many reasons. One of which is that a chainsaw is light enough that you can keep your weight supported with your legs, but a K12 will cause you to bend over because of the weight and short reach of the blade.

If your having to remove shingles before you cut a hole, your chainsaw has the wrong chain on it. Buy the right chain (Bullet, Raptor, or Stihl RDR) and you firefighters will spend very little time on the roof!