battery operated recip saws

[billy]

Who is using the new cordless recip saws. What are your experiences? What do they do best? What will they not do? Any problems with blade changes?

[SBrooks]

We have a couple cordless DeWalt recip saws, as well as a few corded Milwaukee Super Sawzalls. We don't use any of them on a regular basis, as we tend to go with our hydraulic cutters. We've used them a couple times that I can think of...they worked fine on roof posts, just like the corded ones. Well they work fine until you get bound up or whatever your cutting starts to move.
We had a problem with the cordless saws batteries draining if they sat in the saw for a few weeks, so now we keep the batteries disconnected.
I'd like to hear how well other companies use recip saws, vs. hydraulics. I hear stories about how the recips are supposed to be better on modern cars, but. . . the hydraulics work pretty good for us.

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Sean Brooks
Firefighter
Berwyn Heights V.F.D.
Prince George's Co., MD

[Marv Walton]

We have Milwaukee cordless and a Bosch corded saws. The cordless is OK, but I have noticed a lack of power in the cordless an opposed to the corded saw. Battery life is also a problem. We have found you had better have a spare battery ready to use in case the old one gives out in the middle of an evolution.

[jsteele]

I've used cordless saws in competitions and was happy with them. I haven't used in the street, and my concern is keeping a charge when they are stored on the apparatus. How long can they sit without drain down, and batteries sitting in the charger all the time is just as bad as it will kill the battery life. A side note, I also used the cordless in a RIT class. With a demolition blade, you can breech walls in a hurry, and really open window openings.

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James Steele
Second Assistant Chief
Portland Hook & Ladder Co. #1
Portland , PA

[Halligan84]

We use the 18V Milwaukee and leave the battery in saw. Once a week we pull both batteries and put them in the charger, so far its worked well. The quick chargers also give you the option of charging them up on scene.

[ECBURT]

In a word, they SUCK.

We have the entire rechargeable line. Mini-steel cutting circular saw, recips, light, drills, etc. The recip saw if everything is perfect, will cut 4 posts and it is time to change batteries. Several times they have come off the rig and died in use before one post is cut. Often times replaced by a corded saw.

Why pay more money (almost 3 times more) for a saw that works once in a while. We have six spare batteries in 12 volt chargers and it is still iffy.

I'm very glad we didn't pay for them, they were donated. The bright spot is the Starrett vari pitch blades that never break, ever.

The corded sawzall will beat our hydraulic cutters on a post everytime and are ideal for C posts. They are a wonderful, low cost method to allow multiple tool operations.


[Note: This message has been edited by rmoore]

[FSRIZZIO]

We anticipated the same problem you guys are having with battery powered recip saws. So we demo'd and bought a gas powered RYOBI recip saw, a small 2 stroke engine that has pretty good power, starts every time, and you don't have to sweat spare batteries- recharge times- etc. It's worked real good assisting our hydraulics on complex extrications. Get a demo and see what you think.
Good Luck, Frank

[Halligan84]

I'm with Frank, the Ryobi is the ultimate cordless. Outcuts any electric saw, corded or battery. Longer and faster stroke. Only downsides are noise, exhaust and the maintenance problems of another small engine.

[rmoore]

Posting from Ron Moore

I conducted a school bus rescue program on the East coast where one of the participating fire departments had two Ryobi gas-powered reciprocating saws. I had never seen such a tool and kidded them about having a weedwacker for a rescue tool.

With a top-of-the-line fuel additive, the saws burned clean without smoking and were relatively quiet for a gas motor.

I was astounded however, by the work that those saws could put out. In fact, two firefighters working with both saws set a record for the least amount of time needed to cut a picture window and drop the sidewall on a school bus.

Now, here's the BAD news. Ryobi has a website (www.ryobi.com). I recently checked on their latest model of the gas-powered reciprocating saw. I could not find it listed in their online catalog so I wrote an email. The reply was... "the saw has been discontinued!"

[Halligan84]

Ryobi previously only sold them through their regional warehouses, you couldn't buy them in stores as they say on TV. These saws were unavailable once before, but you could find them in outfits like Harbor Freight and others that buy out lots of discontinued stuff. If you can find one, they are worth it, I'm going to have to look for another one now.

[billy]

Can ANYONE provide a source for purchasing the Ryobi gas-powered recip saw?

[rmoore]

A Posting from Forum Moderator Ron Moore

An upcoming multi-part series for the University of Extrication will focus on the use of 18volt cordless reciprocating saws for extrication work. Through the outstanding cooperation of DeWalt and Milwaukee, I have been conducting a series of informal field tests. There has been some very interesting information discovered during this project.

I need suggestions on what else you would like to know about when discussing 18v saws and vehicle rescue.

Here's what info I'll be reporting on;

the average length of time a battery will run unloaded

the number of A-pillar cuts possible with one fully charged battery

average length of time to cut through a typical B-pillar

the number of door hinges one battery will cut before it is depleted

temperature on the surface of a saw blade while cutting

length of time for an 18volt battery to recharge after being exhausted

the effect of a month of sitting around 'aging' on a battery without being used or recharged

What else should I research and include in this series that would be of interest to you or members of your department?

Any personal experiences with 18volt would also be of value to me.

Thanks

[Phred]

Ron,

Additional ideas for cordless recip saw article:

1) Are the "rescue" or super-duty blades really better than the standard ones?

2) What is the best number of teeth per inch for heavy metal cutting (rescue cutting)?

3) Is there any benifit to cooling or lubricating the blade during metal cutting operations?

------------------
Phred from Ohio
Phred322@aol.com (http://Phred322@aol.com)

[FSRIZZIO]

Billy/Halligan84, my supplier called ryobi, the sales rep. physically checked warehouse stock... they have two left on the shelf, however she said they are discontinued
Frank

[This message has been edited by FSRIZZIO (edited 02-06-99).]

[This message has been edited by FSRIZZIO (edited 02-06-99).]

[billy]

I've checked, and the Ryobi saws ARE still available. The model # is EJ100, price $469.00. Although they aren't in the catalog, they remain available. For further info., call Robin at 800-847-5993.

[eng4]

Better add a chart that shows amp draw seeing as how they go from 4 to 15 amps. Some kind of a chart that shows wire gauge and length limits.

[billy]

Most any reputable electrical supply house can furnish info. regarding correct wire gauge AND outer jacket. These items should follow NEMA suggestions. DON'T buy cheap lightweight cords--get the best! Same goes for junction boxes. Do they meet load requirements?

[rmoore]

Post from Ron Moore, Forum Moderator
rmoore@firehouse.com

As I am moving forward in my research about the abilities of 18volt cordless reciprocating saws and various saw blades, I have received several great suggestions to add to my project.

Here's additional information that will be addressed in the upcoming University of Extrication series on DeWalt and Milwaukee brans of 18 volt recip saws.

From firefighter Craig Wickham, Selkirk,N.Y;

-What voltage chargers are available? 12v dc? 120 volt ac?

-Are multiple battery chargers available?

-What does cold do the condition of the batteries and does cold affect the charging rate?

-What blade would work best for use as a windshield saw?

From Asst Chief John Morris, Berlin Twp (OH) FD;

-Regarding the proposed vice break test, heat the blade, then operate the saw plunge-cut style into a solid block of wood to simulate the pinching and stalling action of a typical cut???

-loss of capacity that the typical NiCad battery experiences as it ages?

-have manufacturers ever considered using sealed or gelled lead-acid batteries?

-have manufacturers ever thought of supplying a battery eliminator module for us fire types? A dummy battery housing with a
long extension cord with jumper cable clips. When the rechargeable battery goes south, attach the clips to the apparatus battery and saw your heart out.

[Curt Isakson]

CARRY CORDLESS DEWALT'S ON ALL RESCUES IN MY DEPARTMENT WITH TWO EXTRA BATT. AND HARD WIRED CHARGERS. IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS I'VE USED THEM EXTENSIVELY ONSCENES AND IN TRAINING AND ALL IS GREAT.

USE THEM TO REMOVE ROOFS INSTEAD OF HYD. CUTTERS LESS TIME AND NOISE, ALSO REMOVED A GARAGE DOOR DURING A RESIDENTIAL FIRE. GREAT FOR TIGHT SPOTS LIKE CUTTING THE SEAT BRACKETS. DURING TRAINING WE TOOK ONE SAW ONE BLADE AND A BOTTLE OF SOAP AND WATER AND REMOVED THE ROOF OF AN OLDER MODEL CHEVY STATION WAGON.

[Jeff]

I would encourage folks to look at the Ryobi gas powered saw. I and my teaching partner own two and the squad we volunteer with has one as well. Now, it has the draw back of exhaust, but it makes up for it in cutting power. This power is especially good when dealing with school buses and heavy truck extrication, which we teach. Also, for those interested, the gas powered saw can cut a PTO shaft on a tractor in half the time a conventional corded saw can (using Lenox blades). Just my thoughts.

Jeff Hinshaw
Assistant Training Coordinator
Winston Salem Rescue Squad
Winston Salem, NC

[John Burruss]

We are true believers in sawzalls and have been for a number of years. On both or our squad trucks, we carry 2 8-amp cord models, 1 battery model (all Milwaukee) and 1 gas (Ryobi) model and they all get heavy use. We use the battery & gas models for quick action while a cord model is being stretched. Using demolition blades, there is very little you cannot do. When talking about vehicles of the 90's, think saws. Hydraulics are becoming dinosaurs.

[E41toolman]

Another one for your research.

What are the effects on a battery when left in the chargers on the rigs and rotated every shift change? Rotation varying depending on number of chargers and batteries. Our saws will have two chargers on the rig with a total of three batteries ready to go.

[DD]

A building contractor told me that DeWalt is going to have a 24 volt recip saw available this fall. I called DeWalt and was told that they are currently looking into a higher that
18 volt tool system. It will be at least a year or more before it becomes available and
then it may never be manufactured.

DeWalt said that the nicad battery should not be recharged when it is hot. It will take a deeper charge when allowed to cool. It should
be charged in a cool location such as an air conditioned room in the summer.

[Lou]

From what I've heard and from past experiences, I like good old fashioned AC electric power tools. Yes the cords get in the way, but its a much more dependable power source that batteries. I have seen them in competitions, but we are always prepared for these events. When an emergency happens and you have overworked or overcharged or just plain not charged batteries, this is always a problem. I know that good batery conditioning comes with a good maintenance program, but I think regular power tools are easier to maintain also. Just my opinion.

LJV

[This message has been edited by Lou (edited June 24, 1999).]

[K Romer]

After reading all of the posts, I agree with Lou.

Give me the corded Tiger saw anyday. I accept that the cord might get in the way, although it never did prior to battery powered saws. I can count on lots of continuous power, cut as many posts as I want and still not worry about whether or not the battery is too hot to charge or do i need to find an air conditioned room.

JMO (just my opinion)..... KBR

[Sfrsc4]

Speedway Fire/Rescue uses the 18v Milwalkie sawzall. We carry 2 battries, one in the saw, and we rotate the chargers whenever someone thinks about it. Should we happen to run out of rechargable batteries while operating on-scene, we have the jumper cords to run the saw off the "Power Hawk" rescue systems battery, or a plug on our rig.
According to "Power Hawk",they were working with Milwalkie to develop the adapter to run the saw off the 12v battery, the slower SPM developed by the lower voltage reduced the blade temp, and improved the cut, and blade life.
We are still trying different blades, but have had good success with Milwalkies demolition blade with 6-8 TPI.

------------------
Roger Ellis, Capt. Speedway Fire/Rescue

[dfire]

I agree!!! Want to get the job done? Grab the Porter Cable Tigar saw along with a Lenox 960R demolition blade and with out a doubt the task will be done in short order.
Hydraulics will never be dinosaurs! There is a time and place for every tool and if you become a one tool rescuer, trust me you will get bit sooner or later and hopefully not at the expense of your patient.