Armored Cars

[kbadler]

I am looking for info on Armored Bank car extrication, recently I witnessed a near miss accident of a tractor trailer and armored car. From that a discussion has been ongoing in my dept. What would we do?, oddly enough yesterday an adjoining dept. had an accident involving a tractor trailer, mini van and a armored car, luckily no entrapment, but according to some sources it had alot of potential. Does anyone have any input?

[lutan1]

Going through the archives of posts and found this one....

Does anyone have somehting to add? Has anyone responded to an incident involving an armoured car?

[dragonfyre]

One of the body companies I use at work also makes armoured trucks so you might want to try to contact them.

It's Monroe Truck Equipment in Janesville, Wisconsin

http://www.monroetruck.com

If you get an answer please post it. It is an interesting problem.

[RESQYODA]

It is my understanding that if the truck is on its side go for the soft under belly. The bulk of the trucks protection is top side. Notice that the doors swing out, so the hinges are exposed. Use a power saw with metal cutting blade and lop off the hinges. Use an extinguisher stand by for fire. Don't stand in line with the door for fear of it falling on you. the top may have a roof vent, another weak area for attack. Most armored truck manufacturers are reluctant to talk to you about the construction of their vehicles, for obvious reasons.

[lutan1]

I've done some investigation on these, and unfortunately Yoda, the underbelly is not soft.

The trucks in Australia have safes mounted to the floor. I beleive there is little chance of gaining access through here as I'd assume it would be reinforced to habdle the loads involved in the cartage of coinage, etc....

[MalahatTwo7]

There was a MVA involving an armoured car that had been renovated into a RV in Victoria last summer (2001). Got t-boned in an intersection and was rolled on its side. Seems to me, if I remember right, they had to use a torch to cut the hinges because everything was still pretty much original except the interior, which was typical camper styled inside.

[SilverCity4]

My knowledge of armored vehicles comes exclusively from what I've seen on the Discovery Channel.

I would think you would approach an armored vehicle extrication similiar to a heavy equipment extrication (tractor, combine, etc). You can't cut heavy equipment up like you can a standard automobile--you have to dismantle it as you go.

Would this approach seem plausible towards armored vehicles?

[SPIPER]

Having been a weldor before I joined the fire dept. I would have to say that an oxy-acetelyne torch would be the only option. If the armor is anything like what was on the apcs from my Army days, I really dont think there is a saw that will cut it.

[lutan1]

The following info is from a source that shall remain anonymous for obvious reasons, suffice to say that this person spent quite a few years working for an armoured car company as a collection officer then a firearms, safety and emergency procedures instructor for them, also.

"Armoured cars (commercial) are rated to withstand pre determined levels of gun fire up to approx 7.62 mm. They are not heavily armoured as is the pre conceived notion of the general public.

They are not made of steel as this is magnetic and people have previously used magnetic mines to (shall we say extricate the contents).

The shells are normally made of aluminium or similar with Kevlar insulation therefore any standard disk cutter will slice through them like a hot knife through butter.

As for hinges being on the outside and being able to be cut off, you can forget it as the doors have internal reinforced locking hinges concealed within the door frames to prevent that very activity from taking place.

Personal experience in accessing Armoured vehicles is relatively easy.
One option is grab a sledge hammer and smash the windows as they are only designed to withstand hits from rifle fire and a sledge hammer produces a lot more force than a bullet.
You would probably need about 3-5 hits to break the glass / plastic. When the window breaks it tends to explode in small pieces.
I have seen an armoured car door window get smashed simply by slamming the door.

Second option is to grab a disk cutter and literally cut it in two, I am not kidding you can slice one completely in half in about 20 mins.
The floor panes are normally reinforced (on some models) to withstand small bombs therefore attempting to get in that way is not worth the time or effort.

Getting in through the top is similar to getting in through the sides, just cut it with a disk cutter. Oxy acetylene is not the way to go as some models have chemical agents added to the Kevlar to extinguish the flames.

In general getting into Armoured cars from the point of a rescue is so easy it is a joke, there is one little detail however that you may have overlooked.......

The guards are armed and may be inclined to not appreciate your efforts in accessing their vehicle, so they may just want to shoot you for your efforts. Also the Police may be inclined to think along similar lines.

When considering a rescue involving an Armoured car, treat it as if it were a simple 5 - 15 ton truck, in fact forget that, as getting into an Armoured vehicle with a disk cutter is even easier.

Just don't get shot in the process!"

[AJM108]

It depends on the specs of the truck itself,most of the bigger trucks that I have come across are of steel construction yes they do have trucks that use kevlar as armor but that is found mostly in Mini vans and full size vans and yes the vans would be easier to gain access to than the trucks the size of an International 4700 series you would not be able to simply grab a disc cutter and cut it half in 20 min that would not happen because of the steel walls and the diamond plate floors and as for the glass like I said before it depends on the specs of the truck and the level of armor it has so the windows could be relativly easy to get into and then again they could be hard and as for the hinges i don't think they would be an issue.

LUTAN what kind of trucks have you come across?
and to say to treat it as a regular truck I think is false in my opinion but it all depends what kind of trucks that you have been exposed to .

[lutan1]

AJM- Read the post. The info came from a person that worked for an armoured car company, not from my experience. This is why I got this post up and running again- to find out info....

As for the type of truck we have- we don't have prime movers or "heavy" trucks, only smaller vehicles. I'll try and get a few photos.

[SilverCity4]

Still giving this some thought.

Of course, I haven't seen an armored truck since I got involved in this discussion, so I'm still guessing.

Are the cabs of armored trucks as heavily armored as the box? Obviously to some extend they are, but the discussion about going through the floor and meeting heavy armor and safes being attached to the floor--would that be something to be concerned with in the passenger compartment? Surely they don't keep some poor guy locked in the box all the time. I wouldn't think you'd need to worry much about gaining access to the box.

Not to take the discussion off-track, but I earlier mentioned approaching this similiar to a heavy equipment extrication (and being from the country, you'd think I would know something about it)...seems as though Firehouse had an article a while back about extricating police officers from cruisers. The focus of the article was working around the fortified cage where prisoners are kept. Anybody have any experience with that? Police officers are involved in crashs all the time.

Not trying to change the course of the discussion, but I thought if we can drag someone in with experience in one of those examples, we might make some more progress.

[AJM108]

I have been in the armored car indsutry for 14 years and I have come across some of the most secure vehicles and then again there are some home made armored trucks that if you kicked them the doors would fall off which I am sorry to say in my first day's being in the industry I had the pleasure :( to operate after looking back, I think to myself what was I doing in something like that but anyway some of the homemade vehicles some of them simply have diamond plate bolt to the doors and bullet resistant glass bolt up so that it covers the stock glass and then they call it an armored truck those trucks I agree you could take a saw or a hydraulic tool to them and they open up but some of the factory made ones may pose a different problem.