Rural Water Supply

[Blitzattak]

I am looking for additional information on LDH relays both by itself and in conjuction with a tanker shuttle

[This message has been edited by Blitzattak (edited 01-24-99).]

[ECBURT]

Well exchange them then

[dc45b]

The station that I am at test our water shuttle SOP twice a year. We use four tankers with a water supply unit (2,000 gpm with 1800' of 5" ldh) to supply the tankers at the fill site or at the dump site. We can average about 600 to 900 gpm four a couple of hours with the tankers driving a 2 mile round trip.

[ECBURT]

We have one tanker than moves 327 gpm two miles without a fill site pumper.

[billy]

Always willing to share info. on this topic. VERY interested in getting copies of ANYBODY'S SOP(G)s for water shuttle. Who is willing to send them?

[painter]

we currently have 11 stations and are about to open no.12 due to a lack of an adaquate water supply we have to use tankers in the outline territories. we currently have 7 tankers housed at stations where needed that respond in with thier engines. one that we have gone to, due to the lack of space on long drive ways in rural areas,is dropping a line at the entrance to the residence with the first in engine. the second in engine catches the hose and sets up to relay water. from there the tankers if needed can empty to the trucks or if the incident is big enough position a drop tank and start shuttling water. all incidents as you know are different and set up just depends on the circumstances that may arise.

[Ken Apel]

We do not wait to set up the drop tanks.Thats automatic. If the IC determines they are not needed he calls then off. While we also often use a relay pumper we are having success with a 350 gpm portable pump set up at the drop tank on the road pumping to a second drop tank at the fire site pumper. This works on most of our fires and frees up a pumper. We want to look further into this.

[Blitzattak]

Dropping fol-a-tanks immediately is definately the way to go. It should be a Standard at all times. The worst that can happen is that you have to pick it up.How does everyone feel about one large tanker vs. two smaller tankers in a shuttle? for instance a 2500 gallon vs two 1500 gallon. Yes the two smaller have more total water but can they shuttle it as fast as the 2500?

[ECBURT]

Blitzattak

<How does everyone feel about one large tanker vs. two smaller tankers in a shuttle? for instance a 2500 gallon vs two 1500 gallon. Yes the two smaller have more total water but can they shuttle it as fast as the 2500? >

According the the two best ISO rated rural water supply fire departments, both volunter by the way:

All figures include driing 200 feet to and from the filland dump sites and 35 mph road speed with acceleration factor.

Montezuma Cnty

Gallon per Minute Rate Per Tanker

Tank Distance
Unit 90% 1 Mile 2 Miles
CT1 1,440 213 142
CT2 1,440 221 145
CT3 1,440 217 138
DT1 2,880 295 219
DT2 2,880 308 232
DT3 900 142 92
MT1 1,620 196 139
LA1 1,350 179 123
LA2 3,150 317 236
LA3 2,700 273 203
PV1 1,620 253 165
PV 2 1,260 204 132
CNT1 3,600 365 272
CNT2 2,880 313 229
CNT3 2,880 313 229
CNT4 2,880 313 229
CNT5 2,880 313 229

Totals 37,800 4,327 3,154
Ave. 2,224 255 186

Churchill
Miles
# Tank 1 2 5 8
TRK-1 2000 305 193 92 61
E-2 2500 359 233 113 75
Tnd-1 4000 477 329 170 115
Tnd-2 4000 443 312 166 113
Tnd-5 3000 366 251 129 87
Tnd-6 4500 467 335 182 125
Tnd-9 2000 330 203 94 62
Tnd-12 7000 580 430 254 180
Tnd-13 4000 434 308 164 112

Total 63,500 7342 5071 2650 1797

Comparing the top dept with the bottom dept that are about 1000 miles apart. The best small tanker 253 gpm and the best big tanker 365 gpm.

The ladder truck quint moved 305 gpm in a shuttle represents the small tank, the pumper tanker 350 gpm and the big tanker 580 gpm and the smallest tanker 330 gpm. It all depends how you set them up to perform.

[Blitzattak]

ECBURT

Thanks for the info is any of this written? If so is it available I think any dept that trains for Water Supply Ops is doing themselves a favor. It is probably one of the least practiced SOPs we have if in fact there is an SOP at all. Most depts dont have anything dealing with water supply.
No other or at least very few other jobs cn be accomplished on the fireground with water yet we continue to ignore how to supply large volumes to the fireground and do it very quickly either by tanker shuttle or LDH relays or combo of both.

[Dalmation90]

Hi Blitz
There's a summary of my departments hose lays and tanker shuttles at:
http://pages.cthome.net/mortlake/T&T.htm

The main homepage is http://pages.cthome.net/mortlake which has links to our trucks, etc.

Matt

[eng4]

"I am looking for additional information on LDH relays both by itself and in conjuction with a tanker shuttle"

Here is some relay data

Hose Miles/GPM
1 2 3 4 5

12” 6000 4230 3449 2984 2671
10” 3789 2666 2172 1878 1680
8” 2202 1553 1263 1090 1010
6” 1038 727 589 506 451
5" 647 450 363 311 276
4" 373 234 200 171 151
3" 164 98 85 71 61
2 1/2" 95 58 50 42 36


One 2 1/2" line is equal to one 3000 gallon tanker in a shuttle, a 3 inch luine equals 2, a 4 " line equals 4, a 5" line 7, a 6" line 11 a 8" 22. a 10" 32 a 12" 60. At least using ISO rules. Hose always wins, I think thatis why the fire service switched from buckets. Now we have 500 hp buckets on wheels but the hose still wins. There are two ISO Class 1 rural water systems without hydrants. Both used hose.