Specialized Rescue Teams (?)

[Knighthawk]

My question to you is a simple and opinionated. Is it better to specialized in one form of Technical or Sepecialized rescue (i.e. Confined, High/Low) or be well versed in others as well? (Kind of Being a Jack of All Trades but a master of none)<br />The Dept. that I run with is restructuring our rescue team. Our current team is made up of a small or core group of individuals from my dept. and a small group from a mutual aid dept. We are both equiped to compliment and support each other at drill time and incident time. We both can do confined space, high angle/low angle, and trench rescue. We also have a basic understanding of structural collapse and by that I mean just a few members know how to set up Raker Shores and shore up an opening after breaching a wall.

[ 01-14-2002: Message edited by: Knighthawk ]</p>

[NCRSQ751]

Don't spread yourself too thin to start with. As long as you have other potential resources for the things you have yet to master, ensure that you are entirely confident on the things you are currently proficient on.

At the same time, arrange for training on the other items, like the collapse skills. Your entire team should have at least an awareness if not operational level of knowledge of anything you may respond to.

After you get to that point my best suggestion would be to sit down with the entire team and have everyone pick their 'favorite' area of rescue. Send a few for each discipline to more advanced training so you have at least a few 'gurus' and hopefully instructors for every area. They can come back and teach the rest, gradually advancing everyone's knowledge.

This also assures that you'll have at least a few that are advanced on each incident and can lead the rest. It takes time but be patient, it's worth it.

If you are low budget (I know all about that) the training doesn't have to be big $$) Search for 'rescue colleges' put on by community colleges which are generally low or no cost. I also know some good insructors that will travel and put their classes through such colleges so that the departments don't have to shell out the big bucks.

As for lodging, look for FD's or Rescue Squads in the area of the class and see if you can work out a low or no cost arrangement for staying at their facility. You'd be surprised what you can get from others in the same boat.

[benford1]

Susan is right, Knighthawk. If you try to do too much with your small group at one time, you will definitely suffer burn out and lose interest. I am sure that you have a few guys who love the rope rescue stuff, as well as a few who love the trench rescue, and so forth.......

Each time you drill, make sure you incorporate as much realism as possible into the exercise. Sure you can sit at the station and rig a 3:1 z-drag in the bays, but it just doesn't sink in for some unless they see it in action. Either use a training tower or a good steep embankment or something to use to lift a "victim" from. I have found that if you have a rescue manikin, it frees up everyone to participate. If not, find one of your other members that will volunteer to "be the victim". Just make sure there is added safety in the systems when using live people.

Also, talk to some of the industry or businesses in the area. Ask if they would help finance some of the more expensive classes, like FEMA Rescue Systems I and II for structural collapse. The community colleges in the area may be willing to help offset the costs. These classes are usually a week long, but they can be broken up into a couple of weekends.

Overall, don't expect everyone to be an expert in everything. The important thing is to have a good working knowledge of it all and have an expertise in just a few areas. If everyone has that approach, then the whole team will benefit.

Good luck and train safe!

Benjamin Lunsford<br />Captain / Training Officer<br />Fire & Rescue Instructor<br />Upper Hominy Fire Rescue<br />Candler, NC

[MtnRsq]

Knighthawk -

You're getting good advice from the other posts.

Look at what type of incidents you are likely to respond to - no sense in developing a huge expertise in something that will have no return.

Build from awareness level and up. Make sure you have well trained and competent leadership if they will be directing those w/limited experience on a specialized rescue incident. Remember - a little bit of competence and/or a newly-certificated "expert" is often the most dangerous person on scene.

Train, train, train. Look to other (verfiably experienced) entities that may allow you to participate in a training they sponsor. Invite them to provide training to you. Benford raises an excellent point - doing a high angle system on the apron of the station doesn't count other than to get down the very fundamentals. You MUST put these skills to use by training in the field. We often do scenarios (planned by sr. leadership) that are treated just like the real thing (within limits of course)and call for a full set of skills - doing medical mid-cliff, etc. It is also a good chance for those training for command-level positions to put the thing together under the guidance of experienced personnel.

Since you appear to run a joint rescue operation - plan and train that way. Find out what other entities in the area could cover for you on an incident type where you don't have much depth. Offer to provide support to them in areas where you have expertise.

[Techresq]

Knighthawk,<br />If you are looking for the training that your team will get the most out of, have your team attend a good rope rescue course! Rope is the back bone for technical rescue. If your team has a rope background then they can apply it to Confined Space, Water and some but not as much in Trench and Structural Collapse Rescues. Once you have a working knowledge of ropes then you can start moving out to the other disciplines.<br />David Gerrer<br />Owner/Lead Instructor<br />Technical Training Solutions, LLC<br /><a href="http://www.TechTrngSols.com" target="_blank">www.TechTrngSols.com</a>

[Knighthawk]

Thank you to everyone that has replied so far to my question.

One of the leaders of the team has some really good ideas (I think so anyway), like going over knots, basic rope rescue is a pre-req. for the team, lashing in of live patient, doing different riggings. I would like to see an actual toned drill like the real thing.

We have actually had a couple of high angle rescues from water towers. This week we plan to go over trench setup. A lot of our Gurus that started our team back before I joined the dept. and team have left for whatever reasons of their own.

I look forward to seeing what others have to say.

[10-75k]

Knighthawk,

You need to send some of these post to some officers in our department. There is alot of good points on this topic. The problem in our department is they only want to be firefighters when the pager goes off. No one wants to go to training or pick up a book/magazine and read articles from experts that have alot more knowledge then we do. Seating assignments would work great if 1) people would read there assignments 2) if the fire officers would train and reenforce the seating assigments. One person (me) can't do it by myself. I have to much on my plate now. Also to the members have to raise there level a notch.

"JACKS OF ALL, MASTERS OF NONE" that statement can't be any truer. We are getting ready to buy a new rescue truck designed around tech. rescue. And I have this deep rooted fear that this reorganization of the rescue team is its last shot. And I feel that it might not succeed. I also feel alot of our equipment is out of date and we need more equipment. Example ice rescue has changed alot in the last 7-8 yrs since we first started it. But the answer you get when you say we need to update equipment is we don't need that. So if you are going to do this type of rescue you'd better get on board and up to date with what is going on.

Back to the rescue concept: if we did just vehicle extrication a rescue/pumper is more than enough to carry the equipment we need. However with us having to carry all this other equipment for this tech. stuff we need the compartment space.

I hope the rescue team does succeed, but I feel it will only make it with the dedication of the members involved. Which in theory are supposed to be our best firefighters and don't need to drill as much on the fire side of things. The only other thing I can say is TRAINING, TRAINING, TRAINING, AND MORE TRAINING. You play like you practice!!!!

" At no time should a fog patteren be used in an interior structrual attack"

The late Andrew Federicks Squad 18 FDNY

A person that knew a hell of alot more than we know. God bless

[ 01-22-2002: Message edited by: 10-75k ]</p>

[10-75k]

Knighthawk,

Hey, do you think you can get the specs. for the FDNY Ladder co. and engine co.? I have and idea.

10-75k

[Knighthawk]

I have another question to ask most of you. How do you handle the training issue when members of the team (either from the mutual aid dept. or your own dept.) either can't find the time or won't make the time to train other than on drill night?

I will leave it at that I don't want to start a war or get away from the original topic of discussion.

[Techresq]

Knighthawk,<br />If you look at the NFPA 1670 Standard Chapter 2 (2-6.1.1). It states: The AHJ shall provide for the necessary continuing education to maintain all requirements of the organization’s identified level of capability. This shall include annual performance evaluations of the organization based on requirements of this standard. <br />If your people aren’t attending the continuing education then they will not be able to pass the annual evaluation. As the AHJ you can set training requirements for team members. Set the standard and ensure they meet it, if they don’t, do you really need them on the team?<br />David Gerrer<br />Owner / Lead Instructor<br />Technical Training Solutions, LLC<br /><a href="http://www.TechTrngSols.com" target="_blank">www.TechTrngSols.com</a>

[Knighthawk]

So if you have a minimum set of pre-req.s for being on the team and some members don't even meet the min. req. do you give them 6 months or the year to obtain the necessary req.?

Do you (all that have responded so far) have a set of min. req.s for joining a rescue team if you have one already in place? I am just curious to see what others have. I believe we just have the one that being Basic Rope Rescue from an acredited training co.

[NJTF1Bowman]

Originally posted by Knighthawk
So if you have a minimum set of pre-req.s for being on the team and some members don't even meet the min. req. do you give them 6 months or the year to obtain the necessary req.?

First, you don't want to start a clique. Don't alienate other members of your department because they don't have the training yet, you can never have enough people to help of a tech. rescue scene ie; gophers. Second, Entice them with what they could be doing if they had the training, They need the desire to get the training not because they have to have it

[i]Do you (all that have responded so far) have a set of min. req.s for joining a rescue team if you have one already in place? I am just curious to see what others have. I believe we just have the one that being Basic Rope Rescue from an acredited training co. [/B]

I'm not sure on what part of the State your in, but in the County I'm located in the County Fire Academy has a In-House training where they will send an instructor to your station to teach any one of a dozen or so classes and Confined Space Awareness and Operations and Basic Rope rescue are two of them, also you can check with the State Police Training Divison into the Confined Space classes as those classes fall under them as do the Haz Mat classes.



"Training as you work & Work as you training"