LDH Reel Practical?

[Pilgrim]

Does anyone out there have any experience with large diameter hose reel trucks? We are looking into one, however, there is an enormous amount of skepticism regarding them. Any first hand experiences good or bad would be appreciated. What are the strengths and weaknesses? I don't see many of them in use to speak of, so I am skeptical myself. I would much rather get opinions from those on the line rather than salesmen!
I personally figure if they were so great, more departments would be using them. Any help would be appreciated.

John

[SBLG]

We are currently running a '97 IHC 4900 Saulsbury LDH truck set up as follows:

IHC 4900 series chassis with 300hp DT530
Marmon Harrington 4x4 Conversion
Hale CSD 1250 Front Mount ( pump will pump 1750 from draft with dual 6" suctions)
Hannay Hydraulic reel with 4000 feet 5" Hose
Saulsbury Aluminum Body
NO Water

We set the truck up for water supply only and have had very good luck with it. We are able to lay 4000 feet hose go to draft and supply a manifold with 850-1000 gpm in 12-13 min with only two men. We also use the unit for tanker filling again we are able to fill tankers at 1400-1500 gpm with only two people. The unit deploys hose very fast , pick up is better then a standard hose bed. We are able to pick it up in 30-45 min with 4 people. We spent a lot of time talking to people who ran this type truck and took there good and bad point into consideration. Over all this truck has changed the way we do things here and opened up many new water sources for us. IF you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

Chris


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[DFDGREG]

Chris, would you recomend one of these reel's for use on an engine or strictly for use as a water supply?

Greg
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[This message has been edited by DFDGREG (edited July 23, 2000).]

[Fyrtrks]

I used to deliver for Saulsbury and we also did a unit for Tavener Florida. I am not sure of the spelling but it is close. It was much like Sister Bay's but it did not have a pump.

------------------
Dan Jenkins
Fyrtrks

[SBLG]

Greg,

Based on conversations with other departments they like them on attack engines. I believe there is a county in Florida that runs them on all attack engines. I spoke with several departments on the East coast that have them and like them. The one dept. no longer uses them due to all hydrants in district now.
So i guess to answer your question yes i would not be afraid to use them on a attack engine.
Chris

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[This message has been edited by SBLG (edited July 23, 2000).]

[M G]

In New Jersey, Middlesx Boro (Somerset or Middlesx County) has a Pierce with an LDH reel, North Wildwood (Cape May County) also has one on a Mack Chassis, Washington Valley (Somerset County) has one as well. Mortlake, Conn. Has them ("Dalmatian90" posts here, this is his company).

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The information presented herin is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

[Pilgrim]

MG,

Are those units being used as primary attack engines? Or as a hose truck with a large pump for long lays? I am wondering about the validity of them being used as a first due engine due to the sacrifice of rear compartments for storage.

Thanks

John

[M G]

The following departments (that I last recall of) have Reel equipped engines (their exact use is uncertain to me, however they appear to be more traditional designed engines). None of these engines is strictly a reel and pump truck that I know of.

New Jersey:
1. Middlesex Boro (Beechwood or Beechwood Heights Fire Co. unsure exact name)(Somerset County, maybe Middlesex County).
Try: (908) 356-1900
2. Washington Valley Fire Co (Somerset County)
Try: (732) 356-1432
3. Wildwood Fire Department (Cape May County?)
4. Slackwood Fire Co (Mercer County?)

I hope this helps, if I can dig up more stuff I'll post it for ya.

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The information presented herin is simply my opinion and does not represent the opinion or view of my employer(s) or any department/agency to which I belong.

[This message has been edited by M G (edited July 23, 2000).]

[LHS']

Seminole County FL went through 3 generations of pumpers with 750 water tanks over a 30 year period. Approximately 30 rigs. They worked just fine as engines, hose layers and EMS/medic units.

If you learn how to load the hose right, have someone build it with a clue, you'll do fine. Strawpump PA near Pittsburg had a very conventional E-ONE with a roll up door over the reel and a conventional hose bed over their reel.

[SBLG]

Holland Town ship in the central part of Wisconsin also has a reel with a standard hose bed over the top. Underhill VT runs a attack pumper with a reel 2500+- hose with a 500 tank with a front mount pump.

Like LHS says you need to work with a builder that understands reels and the big picture of how they work in the field not just how to hook it up and paint it.

Chris


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[MetalMedic]

A local department in this area has one on their Pond Pumper to use as a support/supply pumper to fill tankers or set up a long relay. The only problem I have heard they have with it is that it is very heavy when loaded and their chassis wasn't suitable to handle it. Otherwise, I guess it has served them well. So the lesson learned is that if you elect to put one on a truck, be sure you anticipate the total load with your brand of LDH when you specify the chassis.

------------------
Richard Nester
Orrville (OH) Fire Dept.

[neiowa]

Bump thread

[DellroyVFD08]

Wow..this was a pretty good thread. I'm glad someone bumped it to the top.
Our attack engine has an LDH reel with 1300' on it. We are a rural dept. and it makes things MUCH easier. When the first truck gets on scene, we drop the manifold and start reeling off line. It doesn't slow us down more than a few seconds and when we get up the drive, road, etc to the structure a few more seconds and that engine is completely done setting up to receive water.
When the second engine in gets there, the manifold is laying right at the intersection and pulls the line off, hooks to the manifold, and is ready to pump directly to the first engine. We've had that truck since I joined the department so I don't know what it was like laying it all by hand, but I can't imagine doing it without the reel now. Putting it back on the truck isn't much more difficult than deploying it and, again, is done in a matter of minutes.

[Ledebuhr1]

Ok I have a question. If the reel holds say, 2500ft of LDH, do you have to unreel all of the hose if the scene is only 900ft from the water source? Do they have break off points in the hose so you dont have to unreel the whole reel?
thanks

[DellroyVFD08]

Ok I have a question. If the reel holds say, 2500ft of LDH, do you have to unreel all of the hose if the scene is only 900ft from the water source? Do they have break off points in the hose so you dont have to unreel the whole reel?
thanks

It's just normal LDH....ours is at least. 50' sections. We drop the manifold and run about 50' off to have extra until the reel gets spinning with the truck and go to the scene. When we stop, we look at what we have and decide if we want to run more off to the next break, or if we break it at the last coupling. We do keep a 25' section on the truck to make a connection if we're a little short to get up to the intake. The line on the reel isn't connected to anything...just on the reel. It's all stortz couplings so it's quick and easy to break where you want it.

Does that help?

[Ledebuhr1]

Yes thanks a lot,

Any pics of a setup like this. We have a large pump on a trailer that our grass rig pulls. It can supply water from a pond several thousand feet away. We hate using it because it takes so long to fold the hose back on the trailer. A reel would be great.
Any Idea hoe much they might cost?

[Res343cue]

Ledebuhr,

Talk to one of your local power / phone companies. They often have trailers that have powered reels on them for retracting cable and whatnot. I'm sure one of those would work beautifully for our purpouses....

[neiowa]

Wow..this was a pretty good thread. I'm glad someone bumped it to the top.

thanks very much

Working thru this issue for our dept. We are putting together a rural/"city" solution to moving ISO water. Have acquired 5000ft of 6" we are going to use. Working thru details on what we are doing reelwise (trk mtd, trailer mtd etc).

[confire]

5000 feet of 6” hose WOW!
I’ve seen 6” on Oil refinery apparatus, now that’s a supply line. An’t drive over that.
I wonder how many depts. use 6” LDH?

[npfd801]

thanks very much

Working thru this issue for our dept. We are putting together a rural/"city" solution to moving ISO water. Have acquired 5000ft of 6" we are going to use. Working thru details on what we are doing reelwise (trk mtd, trailer mtd etc).

So what surplus program did you find this stuff in? You never cease amaze me with the resourcefulness of the stuff you've done.

In case anyone can't tell, this is a compliment.

I'd bet Hannay has a contact list of customers who use their LDH reels.

[neiowa]

So what surplus program did you find this stuff in? You never cease amaze me with the resourcefulness of the stuff you've done.

In case anyone can't tell, this is a compliment.

I'd bet Hannay has a contact list of customers who use their LDH reels.

You got me.

The Navy/USMC use 6" LDH in 100ft sections, victaulic couplings, for ship to shore transfer of fuel. Huge reel mounted on the deck of a tanker and they tow the hose to shore to pump into portable bladder tank farms. Very nice.

The Army lays miles of 6" LDH in 500ft sections, victaulic couplings, across the desert, as portable pipelines, to move fuel forward (do the same for water). Relay pumps stationed along the way, as required, to keep it moving. Typical is 600gpm. For many many miles. Nice stuff, typically made by Angus.

Also have 9000ft of DOD surplus 4" LDH we were going to use until we obtained the 6".


The largest users of LDH is not the fire service. It's the manure handling (farm) business. Typical is to lay a few miles of 6" hose from a multimillion gallon lagoon. Pump with a 2000gpm tractor powered pump at 100psi+/- to a distant field. At the field the 6" is hooked to a lighter weight 4" hose several 1000ft long the is connected to a tractor mounted "knife"/plow unit. The liquid manure is then knife/injected into the soil for fertilizer as the tractor drives a pattern thru the field. These guys know more about LDH and reels than the fire service will every know. Hundreds operating across rural American moving billions of gal of wet stuff. Google on manure drag hose.

Anyhow, we are working with a local mfg of reels for manure drag hose for our reel. Hanney is nice but in the paint it red/price it for NASA business. I think will do a trailer rig with 2 reels w/hydraulic rewind.

[neiowa]

5000 feet of 6” hose WOW!
I’ve seen 6” on Oil refinery apparatus, now that’s a supply line. An’t drive over that.
I wonder how many depts. use 6” LDH?

From what I understand 8" and 12" LDH also available/used in refineries

[SBLGFD]

As posted previously we have 4000 feet 5" on a Hannay reel - we use 200 foot lengths of angus - we carry a assortment of shorter lengths in the compartments 50's and 25' to make up connections as needed. Also use a inline pumping valve for higher flows / longer distance / hills / ect. Our biggest problem has been with the brake on the reel - our brake is on the gear of the hydraulic motor - small gear trying to stop a big reel. if we did it again we would have a disk brake fabricated on the disk at the end of the reel and use a caliper on that. Current system works ok - just have to replace the pads once a year no matter what.

SBLGFD

www.sblgfd.com

[Mzanghetti]

Fishers Island NY is a small dept in Suffolk County and they have used a LDH reel for most of the last twenty years or so. They have a surplus 6x6 that the dept modified and put in service. It is used for water supply and not as an attack engine. I can give you contact info if you email or PM me. I grew up there and have seen the truck but never worked with it personally

[jfTL41]

The Dept where i live has a 1995 KME with 1500' of 4" LDH on a reel, it is the third and last rig purchased here with a reel. We use 100' lengths, and for our purposes it sucks! If you are in a more rural setting with long hose lays it may work out ok for you. Some of the shortcomings we've encountered include:
The chauffer cannot handstretch back to a hydrant without at least one other FF (to operate the reel).
Loss of compartment space
Hose bed above reel is like 9 miles from earth
Body is wider than cab due to length of reel and space for hydraulics
Overall length is increased because reel sits behind the rear axle
Repacking it is an art every coupling has to sit just right or the reel will hit the back or bottom of the opening

The reels have their place, mainly I would think in areas lacking hydrants. If you decide to spec one out do not enclose it, leave the top open, we had one like that on an old international and it worked great. Also make your mechanic check the mounting hardware periodically, we had one on another rig that broke free (how'd you like a reel of 1700' of 4" on a steel reel rolling off the back step at you?).

[neiowa]

LDH reel on an attack pumper does not make much sense to me. A water supply pumper or a hose wagon better concept.

Check out forestry application of LDH reel.
http://www.forestnet.com/archives/June_04/forest_fire_fighting.htm

[DellroyVFD08]

LDH reel on an attack pumper does not make much sense to me. A water supply pumper or a hose wagon better concept.

Check out forestry application of LDH reel.
http://www.forestnet.com/archives/June_04/forest_fire_fighting.htm

Like jfTL41 said, it works VERY well for our department, which is all rural. We have no pressurized hydrants and everything is done using tanker shuttles. The LDH reel is much quicker to drop the supply line and get the attack teams to the fire. We don't have the luxury of connecting to a hydrant, so our only option is dropping the line, use our tank water, and have the dump site truck connected before we need more water.

[neiowa]

Like jfTL41 said, it works VERY well for our department, which is all rural. We have no pressurized hydrants and everything is done using tanker shuttles. The LDH reel is much quicker to drop the supply line and get the attack teams to the fire. We don't have the luxury of connecting to a hydrant, so our only option is dropping the line, use our tank water, and have the dump site truck connected before we need more water.

Your previous post was you hated the thing. 1500' seems to hardly to be a large enough load to justify the space required for a reel (or the expense). Hosebed better option? A hosewagon/water supply pumper with a large reel on a reverse lay to the dump site/road seems much more useful/flexible.

Yes I understand the rural need, thats why we are putting together reel/LDH. 4" barely qualifies.

[DellroyVFD08]

Your previous post was you hated the thing. 1500' seems to hardly to be a large enough load to justify the space required for a reel (or the expense). Hosebed better option? A hosewagon/water supply pumper with a large reel on a reverse lay to the dump site/road seems much more useful/flexible.

Yes I understand the rural need, thats why we are putting together reel/LDH. 4" barely qualifies.

I'm not sure what you're talking about neiowa. Maybe you got my posting confused with someone else? I have always said that I like out LDH reel. We have 1350' of 6" LDH with Stortz couplings. We don't really need more than that on our reel and that's all it will hold. To put more than that on it, in my opinion, would be a waste of time and space. I guess maybe you don't understand the set up that we have or I didn't describe it well enough, but a reverse lay to the dump site as you said would be much more difficult and time consuming. We can have our LDH layed in a matter or a few seconds and then the line is there for the dump site pumper to hook to.
We have a lot of home owners with long narrow drives or off of short township roads that we set up the dump site at the intersection. Does anyone run a reverse lay from a hose wagon or water supply pumper as neiowa said? I'd think that would take too much time to get water up to the attack engine. LIke I said though, my department has had the engine with the LDH reel since I joined so it's just what works and makes sense for me.

[BlitzfireSolo]

We used an LDH reel with ~3,000 feet of 4" for 20 years. Suffice it to say that it's replacement will have a mile of 5" loaded in a BED.

If you're looking for an ultra-short wheelbase, single-role source pumper (like SBLG's), go with a reel, as long as you design it properly: controls in cab for single-person layout, rear vision camera with two-way communications, remote for reloading (so that nobody is riding on the tailboard), etc. Otherwise go with a bed.

Some disadvantages of reels:

-Hose will always sag if you don't load it perfectly

-Can't lay dual lines unless you spec dual reels or a reel and a bed

-Added expense, added maintenance, added training

-Pushes main hosebed (if so equipped) way up high

-Pushes tank (if so equipped) forward and up, resulting in higher center of gravity

-Virtually impossible with rear-mount pumps


If you're using big hose (i.e. 6"+), consider a bed with a system equivalent to the Angus FETCH or the LiquidTrans hose recovery device.

[neiowa]

...

If you're using big hose (i.e. 6"+), consider a bed with a system equivalent to the Angus FETCH or the LiquidTrans hose recovery device.

Know of anyone using either that is a referance?

Our plan B (hosebed) working with the local sheriff is jail inmate labor for reloading the LDH. Not going to lay the LDH that often and volunteer FF labor/enthusiam for reloading is not particularily strong (thus reel). The Angus equipment just looks EXPENSIVE.

[hoseheadmaps]

we had one of the early models of reels on a '77 ward LaFrance, it had dual reels and the hose would always sag. it was slow to load because it work off the hydralic brakes system. i'm sure things have changed but we never looked at getting another one after dealing with that mess.

[turbodraft1]

We use a old lowes home delivery truck that we built a flat bed on it carries 6000 feet of 5 inch with all the equipment needed and hose ramps works great its low to the ground pick up 1 mile in about 55 min. Turns on a dime really nice truck about 12,000 investment

[neiowa]

Bump it again.

[Rescue101]

We've got an 80's something GMC 6500 that USED to carry 4500' of 4" with two inline pumping valves.The rig has a 1000 GPM frt mount pump.Now it's carrying 2600' of 5".This unit was built by us from scratch.Hyd power comes from a Chevette powered hyd pump running a HUGE Char-lynn drive motor,We used a 'yoda master cyl to activate a Chrysler interceptor caliper on a 2' diameter brake rotor(built inhouse)to control the reel.It has a seat that mounts to the outside of the rig so you don't get clubbed by flying couplings,Hose is coupled 100' to minimize lumps in load.This system will allow two operators to lay hose at up to 30+ - mph.We've used it a lot and it's worked pretty well. T.C.

[RFDACM02]

Damn TC, you guys have tried everything! We were thinking our next engine would be a source pumper with a LDH reel Blitzfire gave me some user based thoughts that have me really re-thinking this. We were thinking 4wd., short wheel base, front mount pump, 2000+ ft. of 5" and a very basic load of anything else to be ISO credited as a class A pumper. Though ISO may be out of the picture by the time this truck comes around.

My real (reel) fear is reloading 2000+ feet of LDH. I can see some people waiting until the last minute to pull the trigger on laying out that much hose to repack in a bed. I like the inmate idea! We have a jail in town and the State Prison 10 minutes away.

Anyone in the PA area know of the wagon with the LDH reel mounted vertically? On the final inspection trip for our tower ,the Chief and A/C buffed a fire in an old plastics factory with tons of M/A and saw this rig. I'll try and get the picture they got of it.

[neiowa]

We've got an 80's something GMC 6500 that USED to carry 4500' of 4" with two inline pumping valves.The rig has a 1000 GPM frt mount pump.Now it's carrying 2600' of 5".This unit was built by us from scratch.Hyd power comes from a Chevette powered hyd pump running a HUGE Char-lynn drive motor,We used a 'yoda master cyl to activate a Chrysler interceptor caliper on a 2' diameter brake rotor(built inhouse)to control the reel.It has a seat that mounts to the outside of the rig so you don't get clubbed by flying couplings,Hose is coupled 100' to minimize lumps in load.This system will allow two operators to lay hose at up to 30+ - mph.We've used it a lot and it's worked pretty well. T.C.

WHERE ARE THE PHOTOS!!!

[chiefengineer11]

Anyone in the PA area know of the wagon with the LDH reel mounted vertically? On the final inspection trip for our tower ,the Chief and A/C buffed a fire in an old plastics factory with tons of M/A and saw this rig. I'll try and get the picture they got of it.

I'm sure that there are others, but look in www.philliesfireco.com.

Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

[Rescue101]

Oh yeah,now you want everything! I'll see if I can get one of the techno-geeks to put up a few.Adam,you REALLY ought to take a ride some Sunday.I've got a crew in house from about 0800 to 1700,if you happen to land around noonish you can get in on the five course that my resident gourmets put together.If you leave hungry it's your own fault.Give you an excuse to get out of the house. About a two hr ride depending on Wiscasset and Bath. T.C.

[Resq14]

Oh yeah,now you want everything!

I like my steak cooked medium.

And I'd like to see pics of this rig too.

:cool:

[Rescue101]

14,Up to your arse in seafood and you want my steak! I knew I liked you for a reason.You're LESS than an hour away.bring your camera and your a** and I'll see what I can do to accomodate your wishes.REMEMBER my gourmets are ONLY in house(guaranteed)on SUNDAY. Outside of that,it's hit or miss.Remind Mikey(Robitaille)he owes me a visit. T.C.

[RFDACM02]

Give you an excuse to get out of the house. About a two hr ride depending on Wiscasset and Bath. T.C.
My girlfriend is trying to find excuses to keep me in the house. I told her if she set it on fire I'd be there!! :eek: I'd love to pop over some Sunday, though this summer is quickly fading as we're runnig a Firefighter 1/2 Academy (Firefighter one-half I call it due to the mistakes in the Bartles and James Curriculum:mad: ) on Sundays.

I did get a chance to head to Resq14's area last night for clams. Beautiful '53 Seagrave in the parade! I did get to straighten out my "brother-in-law" on why they need a 95' tower when they dont have tall buildings. Being a school teacher he appreciated the use of the Pythagoreum Theorum. :D

[Rescue101]

Hehe,Bartles and James.Yup.I like it so well we DON'T use it.I hear you on the honey do,there is never enough hrs in the week.But the invitation is still open,just E-mail me so we know you're coming.We still have to make the pilgrimage north to look at your new flying machine;that's supposed(along with my raise)to be happening.We tried the "theorum"in a news article(in fact we stole it from you)but I don't know how many people understood it.But they funded the project so all is good. T.C.

[RFDACM02]

Hehe,Bartles and James.Yup.I like it so well we DON'T use it.I hear you on the honey do,there is never enough hrs in the week.But the invitation is still open,just E-mail me so we know you're coming.We still have to make the pilgrimage north to look at your new flying machine;that's supposed(along with my raise)to be happening.We tried the "theorum"in a news article(in fact we stole it from you)but I don't know how many people understood it.But they funded the project so all is good. T.C.
Well as long as your funded, all's well that ends well. The big Lobster Festival is starting Aug. 1st. Plenty of Bug's to go with the major traffic issues. The doors are always open (don't tell MMA). As for the JB FF 1/2 program: this will be the last time we use it as well. Too much classroom with barely anyhands on. Last week my crew assisted with Salvage and Overhaul, there were 9 hands on skills drills for tarps, chutes, and catch basins. The week before: zero skills drills for Firefighter Survival!!! :eek: Needless to say, we had to add our own stuff. It's unconscionable to send these students out there with no mask confidence skill, self rescue procedures, and the like.
Anytime you get that raise let me know we leave the light on for ya!

[Rescue101]

Well,I got my techno wizard to snap a few shots this afternoon so hopefully we'll get those posted soon.I goofed up on the pump too,it's a 750 not a 1000.Either way it's still a handy piece especially at take up time. T.C.

[BlitzfireSolo]

Damn TC, you guys have tried everything! We were thinking our next engine would be a source pumper with a LDH reel Blitzfire gave me some user based thoughts that have me really re-thinking this. We were thinking 4wd., short wheel base, front mount pump, 2000+ ft. of 5" and a very basic load of anything else to be ISO credited as a class A pumper. Though ISO may be out of the picture by the time this truck comes around.

My real (reel) fear is reloading 2000+ feet of LDH. I can see some people waiting until the last minute to pull the trigger on laying out that much hose to repack in a bed. I like the inmate idea! We have a jail in town and the State Prison 10 minutes away.

Wimps! If our guys only had to pick up 2,000 feet of 5" after a fire, they would be rejoicing! Lol

Honestly, I think that if the guys are going to be hesitant to lay out with a bed, they will be just as hesitant to layout with a reel. Although it would be nice, the reel still doesn't re-rack hose for you. I polled a few other members of the department after I talked to you, and most indicate no preference between re-loading the reel or the bed (I, personally, actually prefer reloading the bed).

A clean (correctly sized, straight shot) bed of 5" can be re-loaded by a moderately experienced crew nearly as fast as a reel. If you were to make a few enhancements, such as spec'ing enough dividers so that each stack of 5" hose is in its own single stack partition, I think that it would be very fast and easy to re-load - keeping all of the advantages of a bed.

[RFDACM02]

If you were to make a few enhancements, such as spec'ing enough dividers so that each stack of 5" hose is in its own single stack partition, I think that it would be very fast and easy to re-load - keeping all of the advantages of a bed.

Yet, another very interesting idea!:rolleyes: I think we're going to try to load the new 5" LDH on our E2 like you have on the Beast with the couplings side by side and see if we can't make a more manageable load.

[Rescue101]

Blitz,you'd need a REALLY FAST crew to pick up 2000' as fast as I can.We can pick up hose as fast or faster than a man can walk which doesn't generally happen with a bed.If you are going to REGULARLY lay out LDH in lengths over 1500" a reel is the only way to go. If not,a bed will work fine.We try to keep 1000' of 5" on our primary Engines along with the reel.That gives us the capability of putting down a little over a mile of "pipe"if the situation warrants. T.C.

[BlitzfireSolo]

T.C. - Like anything else, I'm sure that your guys have practiced with the reel enough to become quite proficient at it. I'm definitely interested in seeing the pictures, and would be curious to see it in action at some point - reloading faster than a man can walk is very fast!

ACM - Another thing with the multiple dividers - if you have everything in a single stack, your guys only need to pull a fraction of the load off at any one time (e.g. for hose testing). This makes it a lot more manageable, and not the dreaded "oh geez, we're testing hose again today. I can't wait to re-load 2,000' of 5" before lunch!" :cool:

[neiowa]

We've got an 80's something GMC 6500 that USED to carry 4500' of 4" with two inline pumping valves.The rig has a 1000 GPM frt mount pump.Now it's carrying 2600' of 5".This unit was built by us from scratch.Hyd power comes from a Chevette powered hyd pump running a HUGE Char-lynn drive motor,We used a 'yoda master cyl to activate a Chrysler interceptor caliper on a 2' diameter brake rotor(built inhouse)to control the reel.It has a seat that mounts to the outside of the rig so you don't get clubbed by flying couplings,Hose is coupled 100' to minimize lumps in load.This system will allow two operators to lay hose at up to 30+ - mph.We've used it a lot and it's worked pretty well. T.C.

What did you use for a reel?

When recovering hose do you back up, drive forward over the hose, or drag the hose in?

[BFDFIRERESCUE46]

We've got an 80's something GMC 6500 that USED to carry 4500' of 4" with two inline pumping valves.The rig has a 1000 GPM frt mount pump.Now it's carrying 2600' of 5".This unit was built by us from scratch.Hyd power comes from a Chevette powered hyd pump running a HUGE Char-lynn drive motor,We used a 'yoda master cyl to activate a Chrysler interceptor caliper on a 2' diameter brake rotor(built inhouse)to control the reel.It has a seat that mounts to the outside of the rig so you don't get clubbed by flying couplings,Hose is coupled 100' to minimize lumps in load.This system will allow two operators to lay hose at up to 30+ - mph.We've used it a lot and it's worked pretty well. T.C.

Here is the pictures of BFD's LDH Reel Truck....
I posted them at this site : http://firephotos.awardspace.com/gallery/

T.C.'s Tech Geek

[RFDACM02]

Here is the pictures of BFD's LDH Reel Truck....
I posted them at this site : http://firephotos.awardspace.com/gallery/

T.C.'s Tech Geek

It's a good thing that drivers side rear seat swings otherwise it looks like you'd be spitting chicklets after hitting the door frame on the way out! :D

[Weruj1]

uhmmmmmmmmmmmm I got a question .............whats the little seat thing for ?

[BFDFIRERESCUE46]

It's a good thing that drivers side rear seat swings otherwise it looks like you'd be spitting chicklets after hitting the door frame on the way out! :D

The seat does not swing you have to lift it back and forth...
It was mounted on the side so you don't eat couplings...
and mounted in the rear for driving or exactly what you said...

[BFDFIRERESCUE46]

uhmmmmmmmmmmmm I got a question .............whats the little seat thing for ?

The seat is for one man to control the reel there is a control lever right in front of where the seat is mounted on the side..

[Rescue101]

Neiowa,the reel and everything else you see was shop built.The reel is made of a pipe center,steel plates sides on industrial bearings.We had to "play"with the gearing for about a week to get it fine tuned.Adam, the seat DOES NOT swivel,if the driver is numbing it the reel operator just pitches the seat and you come get it later.There is a set of stirrups and a grab handle so you can keep working.Werju,can you run 35mph? The seat is there so you can control the reel speed and run the reel brake without having to run beside the truck.To pick up hose you can back up(we discourage this)drive back over the hose(preferred)or drag it on(only on short lays).4 people can make short work of a hose load plus the reel squeezes the water out as you load.For the investment,it's been a good rig. T.C.

[Weruj1]

Thanks fellas for the reply ...............us "big city" firemen :D havent seen anything like that.

[RFDACM02]

Wait, you mean I can't come ride the seat to a call? I figured it was a Rural Man's Tiller! :p

Seriously though: When picking up the hose, do you drive forward over it or have to back up?

[Resq14]

Wait, you mean I can't come ride the seat to a call? I figured it was a Rural Man's Tiller!

haha

Cool rig 101.

[Rescue101]

RFD,your question is answered in my last post.Method of retrieving hose is to drive over(straddle)the hose(preferred)although you can back up or drag.The pictures aren't the best depictation,the rig while homely actually is a neat working package.There is a "kill"switch for the "tillerman"so on the rare occasion the driver is out to get him,he can kill forward progress.The reel is set up so you can control rotation in either direction from nothing to FLING.The big thing you see just to the left of the roller drive chain is the brake rotor.As I said earlier it is about 2' in diameter and able to stop the reel under ANY circumstance.It is possible to lay hose with just the driver but the line is gonna be tight.I don't recall what the costs were but the biggest expense was the hyd pump, hyd motor,and steel for the reel.Everything else we scrounged from existing supplies. T.C.

[RFDACM02]

RFD,your question is answered in my last post.

You caught me napping! I guess spending a week in Augusta had the same affect on my brain as the rest of the people we send over there! I still like the idea of the reel, but Blitzfiresolo had me thinking. I just remember reload the same 1200 ft of 4" hose eight times one afternoon as we had an officer who was trying to ensure he got the *-hole of the year award. :mad:

[Rescue101]

Now imagine loading the same 1200' HYDRAULICALLY where all you have to do is guide the hose directionally on the reel.Sorry,in my mind it's a no brainer,I'll take the reel every time.1200 on a bed isn't that bad but on a reel it's t*t.We carry 1000-1200 on all the primary Engines.Because of this the reel doesn't get used as much as it used to.But if you need to put down a bunch of pipe,well a reel's the only way to go. T.C.

[RFDACM02]

Our original intent was for the supply engine to be as bare as possible and meet ISO requirements and use the hose reel for 5" LDH. Then Blitz kinda got me with the round reel in a square box and the fact that it creates a lot of wasted space. Couple this with the fact that Mike Wilbur showed us why space on fire appratus is the most expensize real estate we'll ever buy, I cetainly have questioned our overall design (still have a few years to this engine being purchased). Presentaly I'm less worried about the space than functionality, as this won't be a frontline attack peice. But maybe we'll play with hosebed loads a little more to see what's what. I definately will make it over to the mountains to look at you reel truck though. I'm not giving up yet, just thinking it through.

[BlitzfireSolo]

Our original intent was for the supply engine to be as bare as possible and meet ISO requirements and use the hose reel for 5" LDH. Then Blitz kinda got me with the round reel in a square box and the fact that it creates a lot of wasted space. Couple this with the fact that Mike Wilbur showed us why space on fire appratus is the most expensize real estate we'll ever buy, I cetainly have questioned our overall design (still have a few years to this engine being purchased). Presentaly I'm less worried about the space than functionality, as this won't be a frontline attack peice. But maybe we'll play with hosebed loads a little more to see what's what. I definately will make it over to the mountains to look at you reel truck though. I'm not giving up yet, just thinking it through.

Heheh - I don't mean to sound like I am 100% against reels. If you look at my post from 2/06, I'll still stand behind those comments. (http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost.php?p=651061&postcount=30)

I suppose part of my dislike for reels must have come from a bad experience with one - in all the years we had a reel, I know we could potentially load it faster than a bed, but I never experienced an operation that made it possible to reload faster than a person could walk. I'd be really interested to see the BFD's rig in action and find out what we were doing wrong.

One of my dislikes of reels that hasn't been mentioned is that you can actually go too fast (which often makes it slower overall): unless you have plenty of extra capacity on your reel, you need to get each wrap of hose in exactly the right spot - not on a high point, not on a coupling, not on the side where the approaching coupling would be too high, etc. If you're reeling very fast, we always found ourselves stopping and unreeling a few coils, because a wrap ended up in the 'wrong' spot. This is also not to mention the gloves and turnout coats we wore through with sandy hose abrading them as you gripped the hose while guiding it on. (Sorry if there's any confusion here - this whole paragraph is probably much easier for those with "reel experience" to understand.)


Emphasizing an earlier point, two of the biggest reel issues that get to me are the inability to 1. change hosebed layouts and 2. lay multiple lines (assuming a single reel).

(1.) The issue of flexible hosebed layouts may be a moot point if the rig is truly sole purpose (i.e. dedicated water supply vehicle, like Sister Bay), but we can't afford that kind of specialization here - our first due engine must be able to lay 4,400' of 5" hose, and that same engine must have a large tank, attack lines, CAFS, generous compartment space, etc. With a standard engine (i.e. not a completely dedicated water supply unit), the ability to change hosebed layouts - add an extra bed of 2 1/2" for a preconnect, put in some 3" for additional working hose, load a longer preconnect, etc - seems like a pretty basic necessity, given the life expectancy of the apparatus.

(2.) The ability to lay multiple supply lines may not be a requirement in specific situations. However, in most applications, I consider it a necessary tactical option for an engine to be able to layout at least dual supply lines - even with 5" and larger hose. As I've noted in other threads, while we may need to layout a single 4,400' line with our engine, the primary reason for the 4,400' number is because of the need to lay dual 2,200' lines. If you're in a situation where you're calling in a "water supply unit", it seems that you have at least as much of a chance of needing dual (shorter) lines as needing a single (lower flowing) longer line. Dual reels are an option, but now you've doubled the number of mechanical items required, and you still have the other disadvantages outlined earlier.

Reels: very good option in very specific situations.
Beds: best option in every other situation. :D

[Rescue101]

Blitz,right on all counts.That's why we have a SPECIFIC vehicle for a SPECFIC job.It's a nightmare rig.If it comes out(short of annual testing or training) we have a NIGHTMARE.And you're right about routing and couplings.That's why all the reel hose is coupled in not less than 100' lengths and some 150's.Minimizes couplings.And I DO NOT recommend reloading hose at full speed but this unit IS capable of putting down or picking up at a good clip.To do so.you need the guys that run it regularly.I never did a rev count at wide open but I can tell you it will really shed some hose.For most ops less than 1/4 hyd throttle is plenty.To do a multiples with this rig:Well,you don't.Either the Engine drops the first load or you make a to and from with the reel.For what we do it's great.For a front line Engine? I'd probably do something different.It fits our operations and we don't have a lot of "gold"tied up in it.And it's handy when you have the "big one"(fire or flood,your pick). T.C.

[BFDFIRERESCUE46]

RFD,your question is answered in my last post.Method of retrieving hose is to drive over(straddle)the hose(preferred)although you can back up or drag.The pictures aren't the best depictation,the rig while homely actually is a neat working package.There is a "kill"switch for the "tillerman"so on the rare occasion the driver is out to get him,he can kill forward progress.The reel is set up so you can control rotation in either direction from nothing to FLING.The big thing you see just to the left of the roller drive chain is the brake rotor.As I said earlier it is about 2' in diameter and able to stop the reel under ANY circumstance.It is possible to lay hose with just the driver but the line is gonna be tight.I don't recall what the costs were but the biggest expense was the hyd pump, hyd motor,and steel for the reel.Everything else we scrounged from existing supplies. T.C.

Hey Tim,

Maybe some weekend we can put the rig to work and get some video..
We got that technology, I can get it posted... Maybe that will interest some of these fellers..

-T.C.'s Tech Man-