PPE on wildlands

[MTForestFires]

Just wondering what the various departments around the country require as far as personal protective equipment. I've seen everything from full turnouts to t-shirts and tennis shoes. What does your department do?

[721]

Nomex pants and shirt, 8" or highter leather boots, brush fire helment/hard hat with goggles, leather work gloves, drinking water and FIRE SHELTER.

Thats the minimum, and if you show up with less you will be invited to leave. State forest service and all departments in the area subsicribe to this standard. The general opinion is that a department that allows a firefighter in the woods in sneakers, jeans, and a t-shirt is as reckless as not requiring full turnout and SCBA for interior firefighting, or seat belts use in vehicles. Turnout is seen from time to time, but it is way to heavy to perform the type of work required on woods/brush fires, but far better than street cloths.

You can be overrun and injured/killed by wildfire only yards from a road, or safe area and to not be prepared is reckless on the part of the department and the firefighter.

Fire fighters responding to a woods/brush fire are expected to be on scene for 12+ hours if necessary before being rotated out. This only applies for major fires, but until it is under control every fire has the potential of being a major event.

Head lamps/flashlight & batteries are also expected for response that may have the member on scene after dark. Every deparment makes an effort to get food and drink to the firefightes on calls of any duration. However the smarter responders have enough in their pack to work without this support for a minimum of a 12 hour period.

Fires in our area do have the potential to be major as our area is mountainous with heavy forest and an ever growing urban interface.

[Tim Schaffner]

Our Dept is part of a Pa State Forestry Strike Team. We are rquired to have PPE in acordance with their regs. Our Dept team members have them following: Nomex overpants,nomex jacket, 8" leather boot, work helmet w/ lamp, eye protection, bandana, hood, all leather work gloves, leather belt, and cotton under clothes. WE also carry special packs with the following: extra gloves, first aid kit, 2-3 containers of water, spare batteries for lamp, fire orders, flaging tape w/ marker, note paper and pencil, 10" file, spare cotton shirt, Luminous sticks, and the all important: toliet paper!!! I also carry snack bars and 10' of webbing and 30' of 6MM rope w/ beiner

[Captain Hickman]

Like many firefighters, we have worn serval different types of clothing, not all of it being protective in nature. First we wore normal street clothes: shoes, pants (what ever they were made of) and shirts (same as the paints). We then had a new chief come in and being from a large city, required full structural fire fighting gear, less SCBA. That lasted until he ended up on a 300+ acre fire. It took him a week to heal the blisters. We were then allowed to start working on clothing which was suitable for our area. Our natural cover PPE at present it made up of a good pair of boots, with minimum 8" tops, which offer ankle protection. Levi's, without tears or loose threads, No Polyesters. Nomax shirts, leather gloves, and brush helmets (which meet standard for wildland firefighting). The Levi's may not give the best protection, but in our area, we have large amounts of hard wood for fuel. The same holds on the shelters. With the type of fuel, types of fire conditions, and area where we work, we felt the shelter was not needed. Some area have light grasses, but usually we are not making a direct attack on high grass, unless we are in a brush unit. Nomax Pants are a possible purchase for the future. The lighter helmets, leather gloves, which are not used in structural fire fighting, are allowed. We still carry our structural PPE's with us just in case we run into a problem with structures or large areas of blackberry, heavy brush, or briers. All personnel carry some type of light, helmet mounted or carried. During high fire damge and hot times of the year, drinking water is also carried on the apparatus. Some fire fighters also carry their own drinking supply. the largest part of our wildland fires are extinguished within an hour and a half. We have had some last as long as 8 to 10 hours, and one lasting for 4 days, but they are far and few. Training is also given annually and we have several members which have met required training and worked on out of state fire crews in Idaho, California, and Florida. Normal training covered the Standard Wildland Fire Fighting and Survival Training.
PASS or PAL devices have also been discussed as being added to the PPE. Sometimes we end up some distance from each other and the PAL or PASS device could be used to alert for a need of assistance
[This message has been edited by Captain Hickman (edited July 03, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Captain Hickman (edited July 03, 1999).]

[SNOWMAN]

I noticed that no one mentioned respiratory protection in any of their PPE lists. How are you dealing with the new OSHA respiratory standard? We are struggling with attempting to distinguish when their is a situation that is immediately dangerous to life and health (IDLH). There are definitely times when the air quality is IDLH but making that determination is a little more difficult. Any ideas on how to do that and then what would be appropriate respiratory protection? Any ideas would be appreciated.

[SWIDFCWINS]

Snowman:

Proper safe Respiratory protection during wildfires is difficult to acheive during wildfires, as we are all aware. The cotton bandana is barley useful for dust and some smoke particulates. And it does zero for filtering out the gaseous products of combustion. There is a product being sold by
"HOT SHIELD USA, Inc. of Victorville, CA
Web Site is:www.hotshield.com
They sell a filter system that I have field tested. The item is far superior to the cotton bandana. I'd suggest looking up "HOT SHIELD."

RMW

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[AFFF]

I am from the same area of Pa. as Tim Schaffner is. I personnel know Tim and the crew he speaks of. I am on a differant crew in that same state forest area it is in the other end though. The crew I am on is just a young crew and we do not have the nomex clothing and most of our crew uses old military web gear as the packs. A few of us have bought our owen gear but the few that has has not gotten nomex yet. As far as the respritory protection I personnelly have the Hot Shield but have not got the chance to usee it yet. As the fire season around here goes I expect to maybe use it. If anyone knows how a young crew can get help in getting the proper equipment please let me know. Thank you.

Trying to get safe.

Dennis

[SWIDFCWINS]

AFFF/Denis:

I have field tested the Hot Shield device on an actual wildland fire situation. It works real well to filter out much of the smoke, but not the gasses of combustion. This product is not for prolonged use at a fire and the manufacturers recommended use needs to be followed. It is far superior to the cotton bandana, though.

For your PPE and equipment needs, I suggest that you obtain the latest GSA catalog for wildfire protection equipment and supplies. Good prices and lots of items to choose from.

Look up, down and around/LCES!!!

SWIDFCWINS

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[Bigegg]

I am a fire fighter form Australia.
Most of the Ozzie servuices have a layered apporach to all the turnout and PPE.
For day to day Statiion Duties we wear the Wildland uniform which consists of
Leather lace up boots
Yellow Cotton Proban treated pants. Designed to be a very loose fit so it looks as if some of the smaller crew members have pajamas on.The loose fit is designed to assist with the movment of air around the body to reduce the metabolic heat rate
Cotton T shirt with service logo .
Over the Tshirt goes a Cotton Proban treated jacket.Also a loose fit to assist with the lose of the haet. It has holes that can be opened at the armpit at assist in the movenet of the heat.The movment of your arms acts as a bilow to move the heat Straps at the bottom of the jacket that can be pulled in if thing turn bad and a very large collar that comes up to about level with your nose.
Brush helmuts with a fuull brim.
Resptory protection we use disposable wooten filters. Theyre not that popular with the teams makes communicatons hard and are not that comfrotable
If we are called to a Structuere fire or incident above the clasification of Bush/Grass fire we discard the Wildland jacket pull Aramid overpants over the Cotton Pants and then add a woolen Turnout Jacket and a structural Helmut. Bullards are big with us at the moment.
The layered idea works well the crews are well drilled in what to wear at what job but the truck can turn into a bit of a mess because we take the lot and change to siute the job on the way.

Stay safe

Biggegg

[Bigegg]

After reading my last post there is a lot to be said for using Spellcheck!!

You get that!
As smooth as a gravy sandwich!
Biggegg

[AFFF]

Bigegg,

Don't worry about the spelling I'm from Pennsylvannia in the United States and belieave no one is perfect and besides ---- happens. Know what mean. To tell you the trueth I'm not a good speller either.

AFFF

[*Chinaman*]

Now that we are talking about spelling...no...I won't go down that path.
I com from the same country as Bigegg. Only difference is that I am from South Australia and we have some funding issues. So we wera the proban pants, the leather boots (lace-up or straight), the proban top (without the fancy breather holes), bushfirefighting helmet (that is also used for structure firefighting), leather gloves, masks and bandanas. Some people have opted to purchase air filter masks. For structre fires we use the same items, only that we add a turnout coat on top of that. We have now been allocated enough money to slowly purchase structure gear as well and the CABA operators will slowly be fitted out with this sort of clothing. They are a nomex two piece suits, without pockets. We are also wiating for the helmet standart to be finalised before we go ahead and purchase new helmets.
So that's it...hope the spelling is fine! http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

[721]

Saw some recient footage on the news of a stubborn woods fire in a different part of the state. They were talking about how difficult it was to fight due to the remoteness of the area, and everyone had to hike in.

Every firefighter shown was in turnout pants (actually bibs style) turnout boots, and a structural fire helment. Not the kind of 2 mile hike I want to take in 90 degree weather, then be expected to cut a fireline in the deep woods.

At best this is tough, rough, hot work even in brush fire gear (or jeans and a t-shirt for that matter) but must be brutal in turnouts, even without the coat.

All the gear looked new, and everyone had a new 1010 helment on, so I don't think this was a department operating on a shoe string and not able to afford wildland PPE.

But at least they had PPE on, vs. the jeans and t-shirt which does not offer protection.

[SWIDFCWINS]

721:

Your observation about structural firefighters wearing structural PPE while fighting wildland fires is correct. It should NOT be done. This is a serious problem in many fire departments around the country, especially east of the Mississippi River. Structural PPE is too heavy and too bulky and is not designed for or recommended for wildland firefighting for obvious reasons. It is a paradox that fire departments will spend huge sums of money on PPE to protect its firefighters from structural fires, vehicle fires, flammable liquid fires, for EMS, technical rescue and bio hazard incidents. And rightly so. Yet, many departments are reluctant to spend money to properly outfit their firefighters with PPE designed for wildland fire operations. These lightweight wildland PPE turnouts are not nearly as expensive as structural turnouts. NFPA Standard 10-51 outlines the proper PPE for wildland firefighting.

I have given many presentations to fire departments about wildland urban interface firefighting and the use of wildland PPE for the structural firefighter. I have written many articles about this subject. I cannot stress enough that the proper PPE be worn at wildland fires for the health and safety of firefighters.

DFCWINS

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[Nathan]

Another comment from Australia (and the spelling will be write...or is that right http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif)

I'm both a career and volunteer firefighter with the NSW Fire Brigades and NSW Rural Fire Service. Both the NSWFB and NSWRFS now have the same structural firefighting overpants and, unlike in the states, they aren't padded. They're made of aramid fibre (for those that don't know, it's 'flame resistant') and are lightweight. NSWFB firefighters wear black aramid 'stationwear' trousers under the overpants, NSWRFS firefighters wera whatever they were wearing when the pager went off!!

So it doesn't seem I'm getting off the point, I prefer to weat the overpants to bushfires (wildfires), in conjunction with a cotton drill shirt (as most NSWFB career and retained firefighters wear) or if the conditions require, the standard issue bushfire jacket. The overpants are more comfortable, have bigger pockets and are more roomy than the standard issue pants. Our structural boots are not much different to bushfire boots - an added zip to speed up the donning process, so I wear those. Structural jacket for property protection, and I prefer the structural helmet over the bushfire helmet (unless I'm fighting fire in a remote area). I know they're a lot heavier, but I've seen what force is required to damage a lightweight bushfire helmet compared to a Bullard. You only get one head!! Falling branches are a BIG hazard during wildfire operations in Australia. Then of course there are the leather gloves, knife, water bottle, webbing belt, nappy (filters smoke, not used for toiletries!!) and torch.

Remember, what you have is all you get - protect it!!
Nathan

[ff emt-p bleve]

Most fire departments in kentucky are attacking brush and grass fire in structural gear.Some are using this gear without liners OR LESS while battling these blazes. Very few have any type of wildland gear. My volunteer department
uses OSHA compliant treated cotton coats and pants (yellow) with leather gloves,8 inch leather boots,eye protection glasses with a structural helmet.We limited funds all around.
This year we purchased nfpa 1977 fire shelters.
Firefighters using a leaf blower use all of the above with hearing protection.
airway protection dust mask cover with a bandana.
New S.O.P. with a real awareness of safety,watchouts, and fire weather will go a long way.
I hope the rest of the state followup.
Budget problems abound all over kentucky and most departments put wildland fires on the back burner.April 6th 1999 has created a lot of new awareness statewide and with the divison of kentucky,and the fire associations we can hopefully make must needed change.That day has change my life forever.They are dearly missed.

[ProfVol]

We wear structural fire fighting gear at what we call brush and woods fire. As a VFD, we dont have extra money to buy separate gear just for woods fire. I agree it is hot, but we dont fight fire as big as out west. If the fire is not threating structures or lives, we usually let burn to a more manageable area, then extinguish it. Yes, this will allow more area to burn but if it is only woods, it does regrow. Remember, nature allows for fire to ensure new regrowth. I do agree if you are fighting fire in areas over 10 acres it makes sense to wear wildland fire gear but common sense should determine what is worn. We seen brush fire put out with a deluge gun from an air condition cab. It works and the fire fighters stayed cool.

[721]

ProfVol, don't under estimate the danger of wildland fires in other parts of the country. East coast fires may not have the news making magnitude of the fires out west, but they can kill the unaware or unprepared just as quickly. Though not common, I have seen 100 to 150 foot flame lengths during wildland and urban interface fires.

It is far less common to have the extreem dry conditions, and wind that drives western fires, but it happens and any department that covers wildlands or UI that have heavy fuel loads better have the equipment needed.

Our department provides all wildland gear, with the exception of 8" all leather boots. This includes nomex pants & shirt, hard hat, head lamp, backpack, fire shelter, leather gloves, and goggles. A firefighter in wildland PPE, and carrying his own drinking water and somekind of food can work for 12 hours in some pretty tough conditions. The same firefighter in structural PPE won't make it an hour, and he probably won't have water or snacks with him, as we normally don't carry that with our structural gear.

Every firefighter that participates in wildland fires is expected to come prepared to spend 12 hours in the woods, and to have sufficient water and food to do so. Quite often we can scale back and start releasing people in an hour or so, but ocassionally we have a big one, and are calling for relief crews at the 12 hour mark.

Encourage your department to invest in wildland gear, it makes a tremendous difference!

[SWIDFCWINS]

Relative to all of the above postings, point your mouses (or is it mice?) onto "BACK" and go to my latest posting, "LODDs and INJURIES and TRAINING...."

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[DED1645]

We still wear full turn out gear, but some of tend to take out the heavy liners in our gear and wear just the coat shell. We are pretty dense w/ wood. And about 3 years ago we had fabric sown onto our coats to hold PASS devices on our gear. For we seldom wear packs in brush fires, but we still have the protection of the PASS on ourselves not the packs. Yes, it can be expensive to buy enough PASS devices for the entire station, but it would only have to be utilized once for anyone to say it was worth it.

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David DeCant
firefighter/NREMT-B
Originally Mantua,NJ
Presently Lindenwold,NJ(I'm not a member of any of this District's dept's.)



[This message has been edited by DED1645 (edited November 04, 1999).]

[jvfd]

Someone in the forum mentioned obtaining a GSA catalog. I am a volunteer wild land firefighter in North Texas. I am also a paid investigator. Can someone please tell were or how to obtain a GSA catalog.

[Captain Hickman]

jvfd
start at this web site: http://www.gsa.gov/regions/7fss/7fx/products/fire.html
Bet it will help

Hickman

[NYTINARMOR]

With my department, we wear either nomex or cotton duck/firestop cotton yellow pants and shirts, helmet, goggles, shroud, leather gloves, 8" leather boots, fire shelter harness with water. Also every line firefighter is equiped with an HT, usually a King reprogramable. These are just the minimums. Most of us have purchased a different line pack, a hot shield with the ultra shroud, and the assorted stuff that you learn works for you. And now for my one manufacture shameless plug. I think the best boot on the market the the White's Boot Smokejumper in the 10" height. Other than the price, I dont think you can go wrong.

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[This message has been edited by NYTINARMOR (edited November 24, 1999).]