Clinton Makes Jokes As Alarm Bells Ring

[webteam]

On Friday, as alarm bells rang signaling a real fire in the Washington Marriott, President Clinton made jokes before the audience at an awards ceremony was finally told to evacuate.

As America's firefighters work daily to ensure that school children know to evacuate when the alarm sounds ... and just a month after the fatal Seton Hall University fire where many students ignored the alarm, what kind of example does the actions of America's leader set?

Alarm bells had rung previously for a short time before Clinton took the podium, but rang constantly as firefighters were called and arrived.

The full story is online at http://www.Firehouse.Com/news/2000/2/26_clinton.html

Feel free to share your comments here.

Thanks
WebTeam

[This message has been edited by WebTeam (edited February 26, 2000).]

[JAPFPE]

Just another example of "poor" judgement........

Joe Pechacek
Hamilton, NY

[Bob Paden]

Unfortunately, another example of how our society has become immune to warning devices that we have put in place to warn them of the dangers of fire.

[Captain Hickman]

It seems to me that in todays world we have to many alarms. Use to be there were burglar alarms and fire alarms, now everything has an alarm, even car radios. We have become oblivious to what alarms are for. Even smoke detectors in some of our own homes mean nothing. How many car alarms have you heard today and walked by. Even in the article about the incident with the President, it was stated that the alarm sounded once before and was secured. If it had been a back-up alarm, would they have started the presentation over...?

[Diane]

This is a tough one. I live in a small fire District with two hospitals, several nursing homes, a hotel and a residential area for mentally handicapped people. We do 99% of our alarms at these places. And they are 99% of the time false. I can't imagine evacuating all the people every time an alarm went off......We barely get people down at 2 am to go to these places because they "know" they are false alarms. The mentally handicapped people do get evacuated thanks to their counselors. Yeah, in this case it was the President......He probably should have had is people find out what was going on instead of joking about it.

[raricciuti]

The alarm wasn't a joke - maybe the message or the speaker himself was. Why would Clinton pay attention to a fire alarm? He has set so many good examples to date - add ignorance of the dangers of fire to the list. Alright, off my soapbox. The President aside, this is just another example of how far too many people either believe it won't happen to them, or it's just another false, or this happens all the time, etc. Even when buildings burn to the ground, people get injured or killed, firefighters die doing their jobs, very few people seem to get it. I wish I knew how to get their attention - guess I'll have to get inline for that answer.

[twkick]

Once again poor judgment, he's not the firefighter's president, just look at his funding of NFA, USFA and other fire service issues.

[knewburn]

It seems only fitting that Clinton would joke the situation.We have our fair share of false alarms in areas that are set up with alarms.But one day Peter is going to cry wolf for real.Perhaps the crews that responded to the incident felt that they should be able to protect in place vs.evacuation.

[FF McDonald]

As many others have said, and I agree with, the President set a rather poor example.

Enough said.

Marc

[craig7404]

Amen most Politicians show poor judgement when it comes to important things and this is a good example.

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Good Luck And Be Safe
Captain
Craig Lambert
Harmony Consolidated
Volunteer Fire Department

[TLKLT24]

Once again our President shows that he has poor judgement. Instead of joking about something as important as this, it should have been checked into and then people evacuated as soon as it was found to be real. Too many people will look at this and learn the wrong lesson from someone who should be setting the right example.

Tom, Emigsville , Pa.

[FL14]

Unfortunately, there are more forces to deal with then just what we see. I was assigned as part of a fire service detail for a visit by the First Lady. As per the instructions of the Secret Service, if the fire alarm sounded we would conduct our normal evacuation of the people in the room, however the First Lady would remain where she was until the Secret Service decided to move her. Although we were there as a fire safety precaution, our man concern was with the 200 other people in the room who the Secret Service was not concerned about in the event of a fire or an alarm. There respnsibility was solely the First Lady, we had the rest. We were instructed to do what we nedded to do to protect the rest of the people in the room...they had the First Lady! According to the Secret Service this is there SOG for anyone they protect including the President. Was it right? Was it wrong? Whatever it was its a special situation.

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John L. Pascale

[Haligan125]

One of the things with this is that if the evacuation had happend right off, there would probably be a lot of commotion since the president was talking. I think that they did the right thing investigating it first, only because of the president. As for the hospitals and nursing home brought up by another person, most use "defend in place" tactics so that they don't have to eveacuate. This works in these types of situations
That is my opinion

[Drewbo]

Just think: Al Gore almost had a shot at being President over yet another really stupid Clinton thing. Oh, I am laughing!!!

What would have been their first sign if the fire marshall didn't show up first: a truckie with a pike? oh that would have been classic.

Being serious though, this goes to show the lack of respect, even a group of well educated, mature (even Slick Willy) adults, show for a fire alarm. How can we expect school age children to take an alarm seriously, and respond to their fire survival trainning (check the door, keep low, ect...) if the leader of the free world does not even set a good example.

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* God Looked down and
* saw this was bad, it
* was bad, it was Drew
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[Lt. Frank]

As I see it the President was following standards set down by the Federal Gov't. You know the one I am speaking of...Federal buildings, etc., are excempt from fire codes, sprinkler standards, etc. There are standards, laws and gudelines that we must follow and live by...but not Slick Willey! This is almost as bad as Lassie running into a burning building to save Timmy. How many times have we had to debunk another TV show or movie doing Pub. Ed. to our school children? Thanks Mr. Clinton. You just set us back another couple of decades.

Lt. Frank
Hampden, Maine

[jdturner]

You would think with the concern's the sercert service when they come to town and make a big deal over one person that a fire alarm would be something very serious to respond to. As seen before by our nation's leader once again poor judgement and poor response to something so serious. As said before in one of the other reply's. Look at the funding of the USFA and the NFA and that's were our leaders put the fire service at. (bottom of the list) The funny thing about this whole thing is, they don't care and the day go's on.

[EXJAKE]

The President reacted exactly like anyone else would. He did the same thing as any other human being would have done.

The fault lies with the Marriot personnel not notifying the attendies including the Secret Service of a situation requiring evacuation.

I have been in many situations, in hotels,court houses,movie theaters,warehouses and resturants where people have stood around waiting for instructions and didn't get them.
The management of the building is responsible for the safety of it's occupants.
The point cannot be streched to the point of blaming the President of these United States for setting the example for other people's reaction to a fire alarm sounding. That is unless you have a personal AXE to grind. I'm voting for McCain anyway!!

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Good Luck and be careful out there,EXJAKE:-)

[fireman4ever4u]

Once again our Commander in Chief has set a bad example for our nation. he should have been the very first one to get out of the building. This is an ongoing problem the we have to put up with all the time. We arrive on the scene to find that the employees and/or residents have not evacuated the building. WHEN THE ALARM SOUNDS, GET OUT !

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[John N]

You can not compare the Seton Hall tragedy to the situation involving
the president. The Secret Service, Local Police, and Fire Dept.
personnel performed as planned. All contingencies are well thought out
in advance. Seton Hall was just the opposite. There was no plan and no
supervision.

[rescue14]

WOW! I continue to read the stories on; in essence disobeying fire systems. This is COMMON...why? I ask...
In regards to the Presidents circumstances, I'm sure the regulations for his safety is taken care of. Why isn't there a regulation that deals with acknowledging the fire exits before the conference? State at the beginning, "If the fire alarm goes off during this speech, please exit through here, here and here calmly and swiftly", for example.
In regards to the welding operation during the speech...I'm in the Air Force FD and for ALL welding operations that include an open flame, you must obtain a permit. Cutting, brazing, soldering...etc. This permit states you must be in a well ventilated area, have a serviceable fire extinguisher on site and includes many other factors. This obviously with knowledge of the
welder(s) obtaining the permit, reduce fires. It's proven through this permit! Look at the statistics! The AF never had a permit, like the civilian community, until it started to lose facilities left and right! I'm sure it would be a little harder for a large area district to have someone issue permits all day long. It is definitely something to look at though!

[EPFD-AL]

If my memory serves me right, this President was a lawyer before entering politics. What else would you expect from a lawyer?

[rivefire]

For the person that is probably the most protected individual on the planet, who probably does not visit the washroom unless it is on his itenary.....President Clinton's reaction to a second fire alarm during his speech was probably quite appropriate. Would one have preferred him to holler "FIRE !!!"..probably not.

Additionally I fail to see the correlation between a fire in a university frat house in the early morning hours and an activation (2x) of a fire alarm during a speech of the President of the United States....in fact in the latter case everyone did aparently evacuate. I can well assume that along with any risk management situation it was probably well within the scope of any Secret Service coverage to anticipate and react to an alarm of fire, which aparently from the press reports is exactly what happened.

This issue though, particularly in light of the tragic Seton Hall incident, appears to be the increasing complacency surrounding fire detection activations which I would suggest is not restricted to the general public but the fire service as well.

In light of the recent Y2K debacle this is certainly not going to create any more compliance to alarms......
Much like visiting New York and hearing the constant car horns........I am sure if I lived there for more than a year I would never notice them. Have we reached a state of over detection ???...... perhaps less detectors and more sprinklers !!

[El Capitan]

Most comments here have been made by people with little experience with fire alarms in occupancies containing large numbers of people. Evacutation of such places can be extremely dangerous for the occupants in and of itself.

Fire alarm systems in large buildings consist of many components, any one of which can trigger a false alarm under the right circumstances. Smoke heads, for example can be set of by moisture, dust, insects, or lack of maintenance. Some can even be triggered by wayward radio signals. Good security personnel in these occupancies, have procedures in place to investigate alarms, notify the FD, and communicate with occupants. Automatic total evacuation in these facilities is both impractical, and unnecessary in most instances, even impossible in many instances. Consider how long it would take to evacuate a 30 story office building containing 3000 people! In the case of the World Trade Center bombing in NYC it took several HOURS to evacuate the towers.

I have had occassion to work with the Secret Service when dignitaries are in town. You can rest assured that the alarm was being investigated and the threat to the president evaluated even as he was joking about the noise. They preplan for every contingency and knew exactly what they were going to do in the event of a fire alarm even if Slick had no idea himself.

There should have been an annoucement made that there was a fire alarm and that it was being investigated. Instructions should have been given to the occupants as to what to do and where to go if it became necessary for them to leave the building.

Evacuation sounds like the most logical answer to any fire alarm, but in reality, you must evaluate the threat and the danger posed to the occupants by the evacuation process itself. Evacuate if necessary, but consider the consiquences before you do.

El Capitan
Downtown Heat
Houston Fire Department

[theelder]

I understand everybodys concern about "when an alarm goes off everybody must evacuate" but when the alarm systems in most establishments are so terribly maintained that they go off for no reason you have to consider even though the president is a jerk he is still human. If you cry wolf too many times nobody will believe you.

[Leslie Gifford]

Our jobs remain secure in the knowlege that our species is still ignorant of the lethal danger of uncontrolled fire. Natural selection will eventually prevail, but evolution takes time.

[resqb]

I have to agree with el capitan. Even we in the fire service have used the term protect in place in regards to fires in multiple occupancies. I too am aware that the Secret Service is running the deal when the prez is around. Heck the guy probably can't go to "contemplate the meaning of life" without six guys watching him.
In a perfect world, should everyone have evacuated, sure. This ain't a perfect world folks and all the arguing on this topic isn't going to solve the fact that people don't think they have to worry about fire.
The president isn't going to evacuate until the guys with the guns tell him that it's OK.

[macky137]

This is another good but, rotten example of human nature when we consider alarms as a common nuisance.(All comments are for those in the building not the president himself.)

I wonder how many people do that during warnings for hurricanes or tornadoes or worse air raids in wartime.

For a example I am on a job interview I look for exit signs floor plans and fire extinguishers it takes a second or two no big deal.

I was on a job interview one day and the fire alarm went off (people followed me out the door). I asked the interviewer if he/she was coming he/she started to ask a question about something in my resume. I did not wait for the interviewer to even finish his/her question. He/she was still sitting and I was already out of the room heading down the hallway to the nearest exit.

I owe this reaction to my growing up with a safety conscious father and for paying attention to what he had to say. (Thanks dad a.k.a. Exjake)

I know what my reaction would have been to simply leave (I have done it when others have not more than once).
Stay safe

[This message has been edited by macky137 (edited March 01, 2000).]
I just hate spelling errors.
[This message has been edited by macky137 (edited March 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by macky137 (edited March 01, 2000).]

[morriss]

Having been personally involved with protection for three Presidential visits to our area within the last ten years, I can tell you that things are done the way the Secret Service directs. We had a crew stationed at the fire panel for the buildings the President would occupy. Their function was to identify the problem and communicate it to a joint "command" team to determine the correct action. This could be to start fire suppression activities, evacuation, or to do nothing until the SS directed.

Alarms could be diversionary tactics for other intentions. An immediate evacuation probably was not the best action in this case, however, I agree more information was needed to be provided to the personnel in the area.

[9m18]

Just a quick comment...several people have mentioned "defend in place." Is the building in question designed as a "defend in place" occupancy? If the President is speaking there, I seriously doubt wether the building meets defend in place requirements, separation, rated enclosures, etc.
Just a thought.

[Jeffrey P Smith]

I am rather appalled by the vast majority of the responses to this posting. Instead of addressing the topic of the posting it appears that the majority of those posting responses have used the space to slam the President instead of addressing the issue. Are we really going to compare the Clinton scandals to how he responded to a fire alarm sounding?

[Lieutenant Gonzo]

President Clinton reacted just like 99.9% of the general population...is it a fire alarm? He then did what 99.9% of the general population does...ignore it until someone finally realizes that it's a real fire! I teach fire saftety in our schools and have used this as an example to show that even the President of the United States can be put into danger by fire. I would love to see a national press conference with the President and members of the fire service talking about fire safety! (I can dream, can't I? http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif)

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We boldly go where no one else dares...
take care and stay safe
Lt. Gonzo

[This message has been edited by Lieutenant Gonzo (edited March 22, 2000).]

[mike335]

Before we place the blame on everyone else, let's look at ourselves. Do we dress out and use SCBA on all automatic alarms. NO. Although that is usually the SOP, we also become complacent whenj it comes to automatic alarms. We are all guilty of it at one time or another. Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones. At least not big ones.