LDH & ISO

[DD]

Could we use 1,000 feet of 5 inch to replace
1,200 to 1,500 feet of 2-1/2" or 3" as far as ISO is concerned. I know that 1,000 feet of 5" will actually move more water than several
1,000 foot lays of the smaller hose.

We are carrying 500 feet of 5 inch at this time and are considering going to 1,000 feet
on the hose bed. It will require the removal of some of the smaller supply hose.

[S. Cook]

Yes.

[This message has been edited by S. Cook (edited July 12, 1999).]

[Drew Smith]

The ISO schedule requires 1200 feet of hose with 2&1/2 inch couplings. You can use five inch. However, no matter how much five inch hose is carried, there still must be a minimum of 400 feet of hose with 2&1/2 inch couplings. This is so you can flow lines with a GPM of 250+. I know some departments can meet the 250+ GPM flow with 1&3/4 or 2&1/2, and perhaps you can convince your ISO grader of this BUT don't assume the hose smaller than 2&1/2 will get credit unless you ask.

Also, if you want to use the five inch in your front-line apparatus you will need it on your reserve apparatus as well. Here is why: If you laid 2000 feet of five inch to get a mobile water supply credit, the reserve pumper must be able to do the same. If the reserve pumper does not have the five inch then the credit for reserve pumper in those areas requiring LDH will be reduced possibly resulting in a lower grade.

[K A]

--The ISO schedule requires 1200 feet of hose with 2&1/2 inch couplings. --

Actually 1400 feet minimum including attack line of 2", 2 1/" or 3 inch hose, 200 feet can be on a hose rack.

-- there still must be a minimum of 400 feet of hose with 2&1/2 inch couplings.---

600 feet of 2 inch 2 1/2 inch or 3 inch, coupling size is irrelevant, 200 feet can be on a hose rack.

--=I know some departments can meet the 250+ GPM flow with 1&3/4 and perhaps you can convince your ISO grader --

No way will they credit anything but 2, 2 1/2 or 3.

If you want 100% credit for hydrant flow you need to carry enough LDH 1000 foot minimum of the right size to accomplish the water flow. That amount is the magic number on your first alarm and all reserve pieces. If you want to exceed the 1000 foot hydrant lay standard tehn all rigs need to carry whatever that number is. Ie 1500 feet etc.

[SCFF2304]

Kinda off the subject a bit, but is there anybody else out there who feels that ISO needs to update their rating schedule to the technology available today?

[K A]

-Kinda off the subject a bit, but is there anybody else out there who feels that ISO needs to update their rating schedule to the technology available today?_

Such as? They give credit for CAFS, who uses CAFS? LDH,all the NFPA stuff. Wat else?

[Jim M.]

KA - Where are you getting the ISO citations? I've tried navigating their web site and it's just an endless maze. Is there a publication list available? Trying to locate the specs for an ISO pump test - described as less time consuming than the NFPA test.
- - - - - - - - -
Jim M.

[Dalmation90]

The ISO Stuff is mostly found in the Fire Supression Rating Schedule, which you can order from ISO for around $40.

Also good is "Your Next Rating" which is a collection of Larry Steven's Stuff at http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Trails/5754/iso.html

For your specific question, here it is:
ISO Fire Supression Rating Schedule
Edition 6-80
Table 512.B
"A pumper service test is similiar to the Certification Test described in NFPA Standard 1901 except that the duration is reduced to 20 minutes at 150psi, 10 minutes at 200psi, and 10 minutes at 250psi. The overload test is not neccessary..."

Matt

[K A]

--Where are you getting the ISO citations? -

I use the Field Grading Manual. That is about 600 pages that describes how the ISO guy is suppose to interpret the 50 page rating schedule.

I'm not sure it is available to the public though.

[Drew Smith]

KA-

Size does matter.

If the couplings on your 2, 2&1/2 or 3 inch hose will not accept the nozzzles capable of flowing 250+ GPM it the hose doe not count. Same for rack hose. You cannot carry 2 inch hose (with 1&1/2 inch couplings) on the rigs and use 2&1/2 or 3 inch hose on the rack as spare if none of your nozzles will attach to it.

[Ray R]

Our dept. had an ISO inspection in May. I asked why it takes so long to change the rating criteria so that new techniques\equipment(IE Class A foam) would receive credit. ISO must have the concurrance of all 50 State Insurance Commissioners to make a change. The inspector is sympathetic but it normally takes years to get an agreement.

------------------

[K A]

Drew Smith wrote:

----If the couplings on your 2, 2&1/2 or 3 inch hose will not accept the nozzzles capable of flowing 250+ GPM it the hose doe not count. Same for rack hose. You cannot carry 2 inch hose (with 1&1/2 inch couplings) on the rigs and use 2&1/2 or 3 inch hose on the rack as spare if none of your nozzles will attach to it.----

ISO field notes and their check sheets say differently. Any couple, any nozzle that will flow 250 gpm or a TFT gets full credit, on any of those three sizes.

RAY R

Wrote:
--- ISO must have the concurrance of all 50 State Insurance Commissioners to make a change. The inspector is sympathetic but it normally takes years to get an agreement.---

They don't need 50 states to agree they need just one state to agree. CAFS counts in one state, Class 8 rating with just 4000 gallons of wzatercounts in 8 states, training from the a state academy and following state codes clounts as an additional 5 points in another state and CAFS counts as a fire hydrant in another.

Another wrote:

---is there anybody else out there who feels that ISO needs to update their rating schedule to the technology available today?---

I'd suggest they don't with the average grade for hydrantless departments being 8.999 and for cities being 5.6.... the fire service would only do worse. Most departments do not follow NFPA for fire apparatus, loose equipment, hydrants, dispatch or training.