Who gets to "play" with the siren?

[LynFD49]

Without getting into a debate about Priority 1,2,3 or Red/White responses...I was wondering who in the front seat has control of the siren/airhorn. In the combo. ambulance service I used to Volly with, the Driver had complete and total control over the warning devices. Their reasoning...he is the one with his eyes on the road totally commited to driving, so he may see something that the Paramedic may not. The driver's usually knew the area much better than the Paragods, so they knew the low spots and blind curves.

The FD I'm with now, the officer has control. However, when driving the EMS unit, I "instinctivly" change the tone and use the airhorn. I have been told that that is not my responsibility...I have to concentrate on getting there safely, so that requires my complete attention.

I know that both have their pro's and con's. I have had no problems,AND have run into problems when the other guy up front turns around to talk to the crew in the back or has his face buried in a map pack.


So, what do you do?


Stay Safe and Stay Low

Brian

[BVFD]

Our dept. "rules" state that the driver does just that...drives. The officer takes care of the siren and horn. That way total concentration is on driving. Unfortunately, I just can't seem to get this through my head if I am driving! http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

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Learn all the jobs, at some point you'll have to do them

[Ten8_Ten19]

We don't have any SOP (that I know of) but when I'm driving I want the guy in the shotgun seat handling the siren and radio. I'll handle the air horn myself because I don't want him (or her) scaring the crap out of me if I don't happen to see them reach for it. In most of our trucks the siren is not situated for easy use by the driver anyway, too much of a stretch for comfort.

[Eng 48]

We've got a set up where the driver has a foot switch to activate the "Q", and the air horn works from the horn button o the wheel. The electonic siren is mounted in the middle where either officer ar dirver canactivate it. And the officer has a dash mounted button for the Q and the air horn. This way if either one of them see an obstical ahead they can activate the proper warning device.

------------------
Be safe everyone!

[Dalmation90]

Driver's choice -- normally the shotgun runs the sirens, but the Driver can "call it" and let the shotgun know they prefer running the siren themselves.

[Lieutenant Gonzo]

We have the siren button for our FedQ's
on the floor of the cab on both sides of our rigs, with the air horn control mounted on the ceiling. Two sets of eyes are better to view the road, most of the time whoever is riding shotgun will operate the siren and horns, freeing the driver to steer his way around the nitwits that insist on cutting you off, pulling over to the left instead of the right when the rig approaches and speeding up to stay ahead of the rig. It's just like a thrill ride at Disney World (only scarier)!

Did you ever notice that when you are going down the road people without lights and siren people tend to pull over for you, but when you go Code 3 they turn into the aforementioned nitwits? Just an observation....

------------------
Take care and be safe...Lt. Gonzo

[Romania]

Another vote for the officer.

------------------
Alan Romania, CEP
romania@uswest.net
IAFF Local 3449

My Opinions do not reflect the opnions of the IAFF or Local 3449.

[PTFD21]

If I am the D/O (driver/operator), I usually (with the exception of officers) tell the shotgun it is my siren. We have a few that think the "Q" button is to stand on for just about every call. Myself I use the amount of noise I think necessary for the situation. Winding that thing up behind someone who is stuck in traffic behind others is not going to make them move any faster.


------------------
ED C.
PTFD21@firehousemail.com
"Doin' it for lives and property !"
<A HREF="http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/ptfd21/index.htm"" TARGET=_blank>Pittsfield Twp. Fire Dept.</A>

[Bob Snyder]

Ideally, it should be the officer that works the radio and sirens, but should defer to the driver if he/she chooses to intervene. I've seen a few alternators killed by excessive officer use of a Q, for example, which could have been avoided had the officer gotten off the button when told to.

Having said that, I usually take control of the warning devices (but not the radio) when I'm driving...there just aren't that many people who make enough noise to keep me happy...

[Engine508]

Lieutenant Gonzo is right on that observation..When we take our Truck out for a ride we have the back strobes on and the bottom headlights and strobes on but we dont have them on all the time because people pull over and we arent going anywhere! It is funny but yet annoying.. But when we are responding to a call people dont know where to pull they go to the left right right left its confusing especially during a traffic jam. and Idiots are trying to get ahead and you are flying on the opposite side of the road and some moron with his radio blasting doesnt hear the sirens and horns and decides to pull out in front of you then you are in trouble but luckily nothing like that has happened yet.

------------------
Andrew
"You Go....We Go"
"Emt's Don't Die They Stabalize"

[Drive P17B]

On My Rig the Capt. in the shotgun seat runs the sirens and horns. I prefer to keep 100% of my attention on the road.

Mark

[rfd246]

As a general rule or guideline, the driver is responsible for the apparatus and the safety of the crew while enroute or returning to and from the station. I can only suggest that the driver have complete control unless specifically arrainged with the officer or firefighter in the front seat. This allows the driver to apply the neccessary audio and visual warning devices at the correct times. As a general rule for me I drive with my window down so that if I hear a different audio device then what I am emmiting, I know to be extremely cautious. If I am not controlling the audio device how am I to know whats being emmitted. Helping the driver watch for traffic and other apparatus as well as handling the radio is what the officer or the firefighter in the front seat should be concerned with.

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To gain knowledge one must study, to gain wisdom one must observe.

[Captain88]

That's why you have two hands. Both should be on the wheel. You have several firefighters to protect on your way there and you should be concentrating totally on driving. Let the officer(or passenger) do the siren changing, the radio traffic, and everything else that needs to be done on the way. If it were me the sirens in the engines, ladders and other apparatus would not be able to be reached by the engineer. In our ambulances the driver only has to press the horn to change the siren which helps them keep their eyes on the road.

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Cappy

[e33]

Well, i dont know about most people, but I generally handle the noise makers if I am driving. I say this because I get annoyed by other overzealous passengers standing on the pedals and drowning out the radio traffic as well as making an ungodly amount of unnecessary noise. I have never had a problem trying to drive and reaching over to flip the siren on, or driving and pressing the siren pedal. I keep my eyes on the road always. I am also a believer that certain responses dont warrant as much siren commotion as others. If I am riding officer, whoever gets to it first handles it, no big deal.

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The opinions and views expressed herin are solely mine and not on the behalf of any department or organization I belong to.

[Truckie from Missouri]

I support the opinion that both the driver and passenger have eyes, and they may see something that the other does not. When I am driving, I may not see something the captain sees, and therefore he hits the horn. No big deal. Same goes if I see something that he does not, I hit the horn, no big deal.

I have also noticed that, for me anyway, the speed of the vehicle I am driving is directly disproportionate to the amount of noise that is being emmitted. I only use the horns when there is a problem, and when approaching a problem, I feel that I do NOT need to be travelling as fast.

Just my thoughts.

------------------
Proud Member of IAFF Local 3133!

Stay safe.

Kenny

***DISCLAIMER***
All postings I have &/or will post are strictly my opinions. I am representing only myself here, not the IAFF, Local 3133, or my employer. No animals were/will be harmed from the production of this disclaimer. Thank you.
***END OF DISCLAIMER***

[stvfd88]

Our department has controls where either the officer or the driver can control the "Q" or the air horn...the electronic siren typically is activated by the officer. Be safe!

------------------
Scott Lambert
Seminole Trail Volunteer Fire Department

[Fyrball105]

Here the shot-gun runs the siren, lights,radios> all driver does is drive, and has contrel of air horn, has floor petal on driver side. I think the driver should just have to worry about driving, I know If I'm in the truck that's all the driver has to do is drive.I play the siren..

[Joseph Mowery]

In our Department the Officer has
control of the siren and the radio. He has
a foot switch for the Mechanical, Electrical,
and Air Horn. However, the driver still has
the mechanical siren activated by horn button
on the wheel and the air horn by foot switch.
The electrical siren controls are mounted on
an overhead mount that will swing to either
side for the driver or officer to control and
I can flip a switch to switch control for the
horn button from Q2B to Electrical.
Yes, the riding officer can be a pain
playing with the Q2B. I have even asked the
Bat Chief if he has a stuck Q-pedal before.
Yes, I have had to use the the siren
when the Right seat had his nose buried in
the map book or busy getting his harness
adjusted.

[smitheps]

The officer in my opinion has three jobs between the barn and the fire

1) Maintain calm, effective communications with county control and whomever is on the street calling the shots
2) Making sure that he has the proper assignment and that he has informed our crew of our job long before we arrive
3) Being completely dressed in PPE including having his SCBA at donned to the point where all he needs to do is place his mask on AND having a portable radio

I, am the one that is gonna go to jail if the wagon doesn't make it safely to the scene and therefor I would prefer to run the Q and the trumpets. Between communications, PPE, and our crew the officer has enough to do.

[LynFD49]

Well, I'll be honest...when I posted this topic, I honestly, truly expected it to be decididly one-sided~~hopefully in my favor (the driver) but I figured the Officer would win hands down.

If you havent been keeping track as you read, here is the results to date:

7 Driver
9 Officer
2 Un-decided (see remarks like Truckie
from Mo.)

That kinda shocked me to have it so close. Thank you for your inputs, now I have some good info to "defend" myself!!

thanks again

------------------
Stay Safe And Stay Low

Brian

[tc1chief]

In my department ot is our training practice for our engineers to safetly convey the apparatus to and from calls. and by doing this the he is responsible for the safety of the men and the unit. The engineer is responsible for the immeadiate area around the unit ONLY. The shotgun person which is an officer most of the time is responsible for the lights, radio, siren, fed-Q, air-horn, and keeping the engineer warned of any vehicles that may be intersection ahead of the unit. It is my department's opinion the the engineer cannot have total control of his apparatus unless he/she has both hands on the wheel especially on Code 3 response. I know that this sounds like one of those grouchy old chiefs but we havent has an accidient in our department in the six years that this SOP has been enacted.

Be Safe
Bill

[oldrepeater]

I must agree with the majority... although I feel the driver has the right and duty to sound the air horn as needed since he is responsible for being behind the wheel... Most of the time the driver is occupied with driving...so the Officer should be involved to help out as "co-pilot". Like others have stated elsewhere 4 eyes are better for safety.

[Wills]

Well I will say that when I am driving the engine all of the siren and stuff is on my side so I dont have a the option. I do know that my Capty will blow the horn though. That is if I dont get to it first. In the ambu. all of the sirens are on the steering wheel so it is also the driver. But the passenger gets all of the radio traffic and map book reading.


------------------
Take Care,
Wills

[FFCode3EMT]

Although there is no written SOG, the OIC usually controls the siren and airhorn unless the FAE specifically says that they will control it.

[sarg226]

The driver has to be able to control the so the controls should be easiest accessed by the driver, however available to the officer to make life easier on the driver.....But in the case of a situation where the driver sees something the officer doesnt-he has to be able to operate the siren.

[csgos]

I have been involved with firefighting for 30 years, 26 as a career firefighter. There is/was an unwritten rule that the officer handles the emergency sounding devices (horn and siren). I have driven different types of apparatus during my career. Some of the older trucks only had a siren button for the driver, but not many now. Most of the fire apparatus have the "Mechanical Siren (Fed Q), along with an electronic siren and air horns. I should state at this point that the State of Georgia requires for an emergency vehicle, during an emergency response, to operate BOTH the lights and siren simultaneously. To fail in this could hold you liable in event of a motor vehicle accident.

When I was an engineer, I would not handle the sirens, because I wanted to stay focused on driving. We all know that emergency driving is a skill that must be obtained throught written and practical testing. No one is born with this skill. However, if I was alone on the apparatus enroute to an emergency, then I had no option but to do both. I will say this was not good position to be in.

Now days, I am a captain of a truck company. As stated in an earlier response, a mechanical siren will pull considerable power from the electrical system. We too have had many alternators damaged due to this, and I am guilty of this.

My truck driver and I have come up with a compromise on this: He operates the horn and I operate the sirens (our ladder truck has both the electronic and mechainical siren). I must be careful when operating the mechanical because of power requirements.

To summarize what I am saying, if the officer is in the "shotgun" position, then let him/her operate it. The driver has enough problems with watching out for us and the IDIOTS we encounter on the road.

CS Gosdin, Captain
Fulton County (Ga) FD

[FireMedic38]

I prefer the officer to use the electronic siren. I'll use the Federal Q equipped with a foot switch so I keep both hands on the wheel at all times.

THE AIRHORN IS DEFINITELY THE DRIVERS!!!!

If you see someone who needs an attentions getter you've got it. We have no airhorn pedal or lanyard on the officer side of our apparatus. It doesn't belong there!

------------------

[ChiefDog]

Question: When do you need to make the noise and where? My experience has been at intersections... most would agree I would think. At that time what should the driver/operator be doing?? DRIVING! Taking your hands off the wheel or eyes off the road is not a good idea at this point in time.

The noise makers can and should be accessible to both the right and lefthand seat. But when you want the noise makers to change to get people's attention it is at intersections, for the most part. When I am riding shotgun I am constantly talking to the driver as to what I can see at intersections. Not to the point of being a problem just 4 eyes are better than two.

[Lieut706]

The Driver should drive, the officer,if in fact there is an officer in the right seat, should operate the radio, siren etc, as well as watch the right side traffic. If the driver sees a situation requireing "noise" he should open his mouth and communicate to the officer, not be looking for buttons.

[sgfd]

We do not have it in writting. I have stressed that the officer/member in the officer seat should take care of the radio traffic. Siren should be done by the officer as well so the driver has full attn to the road, however the siren can be controlled by both. It's hard for me if I drive to keep my hands off the siren. It is a distraction from the road.
As always drive with due regard, you never know if you get in a wreck driving the big rig the people in the other vehicle maybe family or friends.

[Ward Watson]

The paid department I'm on, has switches for the "Q" siren and air horn on both the driver's side and Officers side. However, the siren brake is located on the officer's side only. Due to the fact that we have such a small response area, it's left up to the Driver / Operator most of the time.

The volunteer department I'm on has the switch on the Officer side. The air horn switch is located between both seats.

I agree with the statement made before about people pulling over when not running lights and siren. I've seen this this even cause a seconary accident.

Take care and be safe

[Burl]

When I drive I like the officer to run the siren, it keeps him occupied away from telling me how to drive. However our Dual Binford 3000 airhorns are operable from both sides of the truck (foot pedal for him, stearing wheel for me) so i can make all the noise I need.

[Smokeater95]

In my opinion, the driver has to be in complete control of the vehicle. This means he/she has to be able to communicate with joe public on the roadways in front of him/her. I know when I am uncomfortable with a citizen's driving, and since I am the one who will be responsible for arriving safely, I should be the one attempting to gain the right of way. Also, nothing grinds my gears worse than an officer who just likes to make noise on a desolate straightaway at 3a.m., but at high noon on the busiest road in town forgets where the siren buttons are!!!

[FireMedic38]

What a bunch of whining cry baby officers we have replying to this post. My earlier post stated that the driver should control the airhorn! This can safely be done with the use of a toe switch with the left foot (which is not being used). I agree with BFD it is my job to get the crew there safely if I'm driving. Play with the siren all you want but let me control the attention getter THE HORN! We give control of the Q to both sides and the officer runs the electronic siren. I agree the driver should have both hands on the wheel to keep good control of the vehicle. Lighten up!

------------------

[TRicker]

As a driver, it seems easier to let the officer/shotgun make the noise and talk on the radio. If the driver sees a need to "wake somebody up" he can activate the appropriate audible device from his/her side.

When I have worked at other fireshouses on a two man apparatus, I have seen drivers that feel it necessary to drive, run the siren, talk on the radio and do everything else. Just how much attention is being directed at the road and traffic? Probably not much.

[BamBamEMTD]

In the State of North Carolina the law states that to be emergency traffic, you must be using all audiable and visual warning devices.Smitheps has a great point, the Driver will be the one on trial if someone gets injuried or killed.
Our American LaFrance has foot pedals for the "Q" and the airhorn on both sides, with the electical siren on the officers side. It's ser up this way to keep the Drivers hands on the wheel where they belong.
If the officer wants to "play" with the "Q" fine, but as others have stated "THE AIR HORN IS MINE". If my officer isn't getting enough from the "Q" he can have the PA.
When i ride as company officer I let the Driver handle his warning devices, his duty is to get me and my crew to the scene, my duty is to make sure that my crew and I are prepared to do our job when we get there.

[iwood51]

Having been doing this for 16 years on both sides of the plate, I have to say that it should be the officers responsibility to make the noise and if they're making too much or too little, then the driver should use his own noisemaker - his mouth.

Chiefdog hit the nail right on the head, the time you need the most noise is when the driver needs the most attention on his driving. How much clearer can it get than that?

[tanker1-5]

In our department, the passenger (not always an officer). The passenger has control of the horn and the siren. If you can reach the radio, go for it. Take control of everything but the driving. Help the driver but don't ask stupid questions and stuff to that affect. When I am in the truck with my father, i take control of everything. There is a pedal on the floor for the airhorn, and I do that, but if there is a place that needs a blast, he adds it in. It just all depends on who is driving. If there is somebody that doesn't really know what the truck is capable of, you take control of everything. If it is somebody that knows, you can share the duties. Some drivers in the department do not let anybody but a officer in the passenger seat. Others don't care. It al depends.

[NCRSQ751]

We leave it up to the driver.

If he/she doesn't mind the passenger 'helping out' then they may.

We have many however that can't stand having someone else change the siren while they're driving, it tends to un-nerve them.

We also have some passengers that get siren/airhorn happy and need to be told to sit on their hands.

Personally I like to have control - and I can find better uses for my passenger, like being an extra set of eyes or reading a map.

------------------
Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[Patch]

As an engineer for the past 3 years, my opinion is the OIC should handle the Q and the sirens, but the AIRHORN IS THE SOLE CONTROL of the operator. Once while enroute to a house fire I had a new LT grab the airhorn and he nearly depleted my air supply just as I was attempting to slow to make a corner. After a few choice words that were louder than the sirens, I convinced him to let go long enough to gain control of the vehicle. Never again did he play with that cord.

------------------
Michael Cooper
Dispatcher
St Charles County Alarm and Dispatch

[engine10_iaff12]

hehehe, Funny you should mention this. We have foot pedals on both sides, so the Captain and I both activate siren and airhorn. We laugh about it and make plenty of noise between the both of us. Six of one, or half dozen of the other. We get the job done! That's what counts.

------------------
G.B. Yoho (member)
IAFF Local #12
Wheeling Firefighters
Wheeling, WV.
Be Alert and Be Safe!!!!

[E229Lt]

The driver should NEVER touch the siren or horns. This way the officer can control the speed of the apparatus.
Face it, the louder and higher the siren, and the more you hit the air horns, the faster the truck moves. (Sirecide)

[Shoeless]

A lot of our rigs have the "Q" pedal on both sides along with the airhorn. The electronic siren is in the middle for either one to use if they want to. The last couple of rigs that we have purchased do not have "Q" pedals on the FAO's side. I think both should have access. A lot of times the Capt. has his nose in the map book and not watching the road much.

[TXFIRE6]

NO SOP on it. The Engineer and Officer both have access to all warning devices except the lights. It's not looked at as "playing with the siren." we are professionals making an emergency response trying to get there in a safe fashion. We aren't playing a game out there.

[Lieutenant25]

Hello all!

Some rather interesting posts. Many perspectives, all with validity to them.

In Virgina, Motor Vehicle Laws for Emergency Vehicle operators are always suffixed with the very important statement:

"With due regard for safety"

When I drove regularly (moreso than I do now), during the initial response, I would operate whatever I had while the officer "tanked up". When done, he/she would indicate they were taking control of the warning noisemakers from that point on. I do the same now with my drivers.
There were times when I was assigned to drive the "back pump", I was the only person on that apparatus, so it is obvious as to what I had to do. Still, I concentrated on driving defensively

In my opinion, please folks, just MY "opinion", a Driver's primary job is to get the equipment and the crew to the incident SAFELY.
You do not help the citizens by getting into a situation where you can't get to the scene.
The driver's total concentration should be operating that vehicle safely and driving defensively. Yes, there are times when situations dictate certain actions, but then again, we learn with our experiences and our good judgement will hopefully prevail.

Ladies and gents...keep the shiny side up and the rubber on the road.

Ya'll take care!

Goat

[Lieutenant Gonzo]

Firemedic38...in reference to your post about whining, cry baby officers...whose butt is going to be in the sling when the rig gets into an accident? The officer in charge...that's who. That's why I prefer to run the sirens and horns...I've been in the engineer's seat before, and when I am riding shotgun I keep an eye on two things...the speedometer and the air pressure gauge. I have to trust the driver to get me and the rest of the crew to a call safely, and if he's going to fast I will tell him to slow down...you aren't any good if you can't make it there in one piece!

------------------
We boldly go where no one else dares...
take care and stay safe
Lt. Gonzo

[bigaxe551]

I do the engineer

[Lieutenant25]

whose butt is going to be in the sling when the rig gets into an accident? [b]The officer in charge...that's who.

I know where you are coming from LT!

I Learned one valuable lesson in Military service. You can delegate authority, but never the responsibility.

The Big chief will have both of you on the carpet, but he is going to look the officer square in the eye and ask WHY?

[RDWFIRE]

If I am fortunate enough to have someone in the right seat he/she is more than welcome to operate all of the toys. I like focusing on driving. I don't want to be hunting for the siren button as some moron pulls out in front of me. 36,000 lbs of fire truck is a bit hard to stop on a dime. My point is this....ALL of the driver's concentration needs to be on the road. LT GONZO has a point, the OIC has ultimate responsibility, but in a volunteer dept. where you may be taking the engine to the incident alone, do what works best for me, turn the lights and siren on and forget about them until you get to the scene!
We all do it a bit differently but the goal is to get to the scene safely, in a timely manner.

Just my opinion.
Be safe. The dragon lurks!!!

[This message has been edited by RDWFIRE (edited August 26, 2000).]

[Tinylad]

Sorry Lt. it is not the officer who's butt is going to be in a sling. The Driver of the apparatus is ultimately responceble for his passengers. Its his license. When I am driving i don't need to be talking on the radio (we have head sets if I do. I am also not really concerned with the siren unless the guy next to me is not paying attention. What gets me is the air horn. When i am driving i have the window down so i can listen to the truck and traffic. i don't need the officer scaring the bejeeses out of me with the airhorn when i am not ready for it. With that said, whatever you decide to do play or not, just keep you eyes and ears open. Remember its not our fault that we are going to the emergency. Take your time and get there safe. Your can't help when your rig is on it's side.

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Be Safe All
Tiny

[Fireguy49]

I agree with Tinylad. The driver is the one who will be legally responsible for any accident not the Officer. The drivers the one who will be charged for any criminal or vehicle violations.. The officer may be responsible to the chief but thats it. In a civic suit the driver, then the officer, then the chief and finally the municipality will be named in that order. I know this for a fact as our department is in this legal process now for a civilian fatality at an intersection. The driver just got cleared of all wrong doing yesterday but the civil trial is yet to come.

[Brian Dunlap]

THE EMS UNIT I BELONG TO THE DRIVER HAS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ALL WARNING DEVICES/SIREN/RADIO WORK....I AM STRICTLY A DRIVER AS I'M NOT EMT CERTIFIED....BUT WHEN RESPONDING MY FRONT SEAT PASSENDER GETS INVOLVED IN SIRENS/RADIO...IT USUALLY DEPENDS ON WHO'S HAND GETS TO THE CENTER CONSOLE FIRST

[Dwight Conrad]

Just a little comment to ALL drivers and officers: Especially to Lt. G.

Is anyone familiar with Commercial Driving? Well, I am. And my comment will be that the only thing the driver shall control is the air horn. Because, he/she will know when not to use the horn due to the ability to control the truck. As in all air systems, Lt. G, they have an alarm which will sound at sixty pounds that you are running out of air.

So, you will not have to watch the air gauge on the panel.

I, too, am an officer. And I'll let my driver(s) have the horn and I'll have the others.
Thank you and have a nice day.

[ENGINE 52]

The firefighter in the officer seat will operate the warning devices. The driver keeps both hands on the wheel driving the engine.

[HAMMER14]

First thing: The DRIVER is ultimatly responsible for the apparatus and safety of his crew. What the officer is responsible for, is telling the driver if he is driving like and Idiot and to watch out for things he may not see.
2nd: Most of the newer apparatus will not let you blow the air horns if the air pressure gets too low(so you don't lose too much air).

All of our apparatus has controls for the airhorns & Fed "Q" on both sides. Driver side the airhorns on the steering wheel and Fed "Q" with a foot switch. On the old Squad & Truck The officer has control of the Power Call. On the new Squad the driver has control of the Power Call, We got tired of the officers forgetting to shut of the electronic siren before getting out. Usually the officer handles most of the noise making. As a driver the most I usually do is turn on the Power Call going out the door and using the airhorn every once in awhile.

If you have to ask what a Power Call, is goto
http://www.powercallsirens.com/pluspage1.htm

there is a sample in the middle of the page, you want the "Warble". This is about as close as heard to the original.

[flash32]

In my vollie dept. the chief very strongly suggests that the driver drives and that shotgun runs the sirens and air horn. the driver also has the control over the air horn. i remenbered the hard way we had a footswitch for the horn though, it was going off for about a block before i noticed it, i was trying to buckle up.

[res7cue]

My dept's SOP is the driver does just exactly that, DRIVE.

The member riding the seat is in responsible for the entire operation of the vehicle, this includes what the driver is or is not doing.

Yes, at the criminal/ traffic court level the driver will be held accountable. BUt you can bet your a** that in todays society that the case will end up in civil court, and I ain't getting hung out just because the drivers wants to get his yummies.

If he sees something ahead, tell his OIC or hit the horn, but that's it.

In safe operation of the vehicle, the driver MUST have complete control of the vehicle. How can he do this when he is;
1. Looking at the siren/ horn controls
2. Taking one hand off the wheel to operate
siren or horn
3. If the vehicle has clutch, he has to use
his clutch foot to operate the siren/ horn

Remember, we all have to get there in one piece to perform our jobs, if the traffic is that bad that the operator needs to run the siren/ horn. then he is obviously going to be busy trying to manuever thru heavy traffic. If that's the case where should all his concentration be?

Be safe and have fun!!!



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[Medic_E3411]

In my short career with AMR, it was the driver who controlled the warning devces. In my town, both crewmembers of the rig are PARAMEDICS, so we would take turns driving for each run.. so each of us got our glory in controlling the siren/horn.

However,in our department, It is usually the officer's job to control the warning devices. The engineer needs to have his/her attention on getting the crew to the scene safely. More glory for the officer.. they get to do the fun stuff

[Malahat27]

Well it seems the "ayes" have it. Our common policy is that the guy in the jump seat runs the sirens and radio. The guy with the big black wheel in his hands has enough to do without looking for buttons on the side. Cheers from Malahat ETO, play safe ya'all.

[Firelover]

I agree with all of you, but I have one question. Why is the siren controls pointed towards the driver? To me I'd rather have my shotgun run the sirens, and radio, but at the same time, if they have to lean over, and I make a sudden move or turn that jerks the truck around, that puts me and my crew in danger if my shotgun goes flying onto me. I think that interior placement is going to have to be reconsidered.

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Joel

If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

**And of course these are only my opinion and only mine. Don't take it out on anyone else but me.**

[Plug-Ugly]

The officer.

[LT-5-11-1]

At the compamy i'm in the siren controls are on the officers side so the driver can keep his eyes on the rd not looking for switches. but the driver does have an airhorn button in the sterring wheel and a "Q" button on the floor. but it is mainly the officers priority for the sirens. they were put on the drivers side because the officer dosen't always see everything. he has other jobs as well.

[BonCreChief@Yahoo.com]

Controls accessable from both sides. Radio belongs to the officer and he has primary responsibility for horn and siren. Driver has authority to use horn or siren if he feels it necessary.

[Scotty4035]

In my Dept, The officer controls siren. Airhorn is controlled by the driver because the officer cannot see the air gauges from his seat. i would be really annoyed with the officer if I was approaching the intersection, & he is laying on the horn & I couldnt stop. Our ladder has a footswitch on both sides for horn & our rescue has button on steering wheel & footswitch on officers side.

[Edgewood Fire Department]

I'm from a combo department, I'm a paid engineer. Our SOP states that the Engineer is in charge of the apparatus. It is our sole responsability to operate the apparatus in a safe manner. The person seated in the officers seat is responsable for the radio,siren,air horns, and any other audable devices. I took PA State Police EVOC class a few yrs back and thats what they also recomend. There is a safety issue, if your driving using the sirens, air horns and talking on the radio, do you really have control of the apparatus? Don't forget it's you and you alone that has to answer to the police if your involved in a wreck. The first thing they'll ask is did you have total control of the apparatus. If you answer well I was applying the air horns and sirens while talking to dispatch. Does't sound like total control to me. I don't know how well it would stand up in a court of law. The lawers will have a field day. Never had to go through it and hopefully never will. 15 yrs and counting.
I would sit down with your line officers and set up a SOP for this just incase something does happen while enroute to a call. After you crash is the wrong time.

Good Luck and Be Safe
Engineer 137

[jackdatno1]

Officer/firey in charge of appliance runs the siren, driver uses airhorn if required

[CAPN22]

In my dept the Driver runs the siren. Officer gets the radio. Siren changes tones with the touch of the horn button or a tap on the air horn foot switch will sound the horns and change the siren at the same time. As I see it the Officer is busy getting updates, instructing crews and requesting needed support teams. Normally I'm not watching the road or even paying attention to it aside from taking the odd look.

The driver is the one with his eye on the road and can sound the air horn and change siren tones as traffic conditions require with out taking his eyes off the road or even removing his hands form the wheel (foot switch).

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: CAP22 ]

[hauckfd]

Due to the size of my dept. I am usaully the sole person in the cab of the engine. So that leaves me in total conrol of the warning device. Which are all in my immediate vicinty, usually a little tap of the Q siren is all it takes.

[wmellin]

The driver is responsible for the safe operation of the vehicle and should control the safety devices. The officer should be concerned about what his crew will need to be doing at the scene and should be preparing for that effort, using the radio and talking to his crew members. I can drive and use the siren and horn safely without taking my eyes off the road. I know when I need the siren. Let the driver get the truck there and the officer do his job.

[truckie_ladderco_147]

The officer runs radio and siren but if I am driving I run the air horns :D :D TOUCH THEM AT YOUR OWN PERIL!!! Be safe all !

[MikeF25]

Our engine have the siren box mounted out of the drivers reach. But, the Q and the airhorn have a switch where the driver can operate either one they chose by flipping it then pushing the horn button on the wheel.

I am just starting to drive but I have used the siren and the 'Q' quite often. Depending on the driver is how much I use it.


My personal feeling is "If the people walking aren't plugging their ears you aren't making enough noise." Daytime only of course. :D

[duffer]

If you are in an accident and they can prove that 1. you weren't seatbelted in, or 2. You did not have both hands on the wheel, you are toast. Unless you have foot operated airhorns or sirens don't worry about it. I have always thought if your are relying on your siren for much more than just getting through intersections that the opticom didn't catch you are driving to fast for the conditions and traffic volume. Your span of control is the safe operation of the apparatus and the well-being of the three or four lives you hold in your hands along with safe interaction with any civilian vehicles encountered enroute. I have been on both sides of the cab, and I have no doubt that the officer or rider is in a better position and much safer position to operate the sirens.

[Captain203]

Our SOPs call for the officer to be responsible for the radio and siren. This works well because it allows the driver to concentrate on driving. The officer has a floor button to change the electronic siren tone while the air horn control is on the ceiling between the driver and shotgun seat.

[captstanm1]

The driver should drive....but still needs access to the siren (preferrably footswitch and airhorn (horn button). But...I agree...he is responsible for driving and the safety of the crew. Only time he/she should use the warning devices is if he sees a danger the officer does not.

MY OPINION

[FARMINGTONM1]

Within my dept. alot depends on who is in the cab of the truck. 99% of the time it is the guy in the shotgun seat with the driver having it 1% of the time. As for myself I prefer to have control of the lights and noise. Some guys like to run the "Q" when the road is empty and that irratates the daylights out of me. Also alot of times we roll the truck I'm assigned to ( Ladder 1 ) as a single person truck.

[rcbadabing182]

it's a free for lyn thats why rigs have siren and air horn controls on both sides..

[CanFiremedic1]

In our service either person may operate the warning devices although in my opinion a good officer should be looking at the map and the preplans to come up with a plan and leave the ride to the driver.

[litlrudy20]

My feeling on the matter is that the officer should have siren and air horn control so the driver can consintrate on driving, especially in a fire truck. How ever on one of our trucks we have the horn in wheel type air horn so the driver has to operate the horn but the officer operates the siren. litlrudy20@aol.com :cool:

[3greyhounds]

My personal (and probably unpopular) opinion...

The driver should control the Q and the airhorns... leave the radio and the electronic siren to the officer. Why??

1. Have you ever had your officer wind the Q up to the max and leave it there when approaching an intersection? Now what if other responding units are coming through the same intersection from another direction? I need to be able to hear what's coming at me in case the officer/shotgun gets tunnel vision or has his head in the mapbook.

2. I've had officers blow out the air pressure by leaning on the air horns. If we don't have air in the brake system, we're not going anywhere. You feel pretty stupid when that ICC brake pops on and you come to a dead stop in the middle of an intersection.

3. In heavy or gridlocked traffic, all the noise in the world isn't going to make John Q. Public get out of your way any faster. In fact, it's going to scare the h*ll out of them and may cause an additional incident or accident. It's better to ease off of the warning devices if you find yourself blocked in and let the civilians get out of the way safely.

All the warning devices in the world do not remove the responsibility from the apparatus operator to convey the apparatus and the crew to the call safely. We aren't worth a d*mn if we don't get there in one piece. However, excessive use of the airhorns or sirens can (IMHO) actually make the response more difficult.

Just my two cents from the FADO's seat... :)

[MFD]

usually at my Department it's like this the driver all he does is drive the radio man which takes care of the radio work to the fire and once we get back to the station works the lights and sirens.usually i do the radio/siren and lights job. But if i have to I'll drive. only really thing the driver has to worry about is the air horn. thats cause on my truck it's on the steering wheel.

[firefighter26]

Who ever is riding in the passanger seat works the siren and radio. In the case of our engine, the driver works the air horn.

We have a very basic fire protection district when it comes to finding addresses, and the fact that 65% of our calls are on the highway means that maps are not a priority. Anything else, and a quick look usually finds it, or our radio operators can check, cross reference, and relay it for us.

[CDNFFWayne]

In my opinon, as driver I would like controll of the siren and air horn. I think the officer beside me has enough on his plate already. Most of our runs are most likely only a few minutes long(5 min.max.).So he has to get all the info he can via the radio, figure out who he has for a crew and if it looks like we are first on scene he may also be thinking of whats ahead.And if need be pack-up on the way.
I feel if I am to get the crew to the scene safely I should have total control over the apparatus from point-A to point-B.

Thats my two bits!

[Donuts]

our trucks have foot pedals on the drivers and officers side of the cab for the Q and the air horns. the electronic siren is in the middle of the dash so either can opperate it. when i drive i feel it is easy to use the foot pedals, you never have to take your eyes off of the road. these pedals could be added to just about any vehicle allready in service.