Women in the fire service

[Fireman Ry]

Why is it so hard for guys to accept the fact that females can do the same job as they can. Believe it or not, but I am a male. I know one female that would like to join a fire department, but she is a little afraid of what the reaction would be if she did. The way I see it, if a female can do the job, let her.

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Ryan B.

[emt9898]

I think she should go for it!! I am a female who is in a company who until 2 years ago would not think of letting a female in! now there are 4 females in a company that has over 130 members! There are about 30 that are active. But i can see where the guys get ****ed off we have one who never comes to calls or drills and last week when we had drill we had a call she comes in as we are getting gear and leaves!!! She said she had to go to work at midnight and did not want to have to go home and take a shower again because she would smell like smoke!!! Now me and the one other female we dont care both of the guys we are seeing are in another fire company... and they understand! But i even get ****ed at that so i can see where a guy would!!!

[This message has been edited by emt9898 (edited March 14, 2000).]

[bfd1071]

Women in the fire service....what do i feel? Well, I have no problem with it as long as the standard stays the same. What that means, well, if a male has to raise the fly of the 40, so shall the females. The PAT test should not be changed for the females. Nothing in training should be changed. If you do any of this, females will be looked at as the weaker side of the fire service. If they can perform all functions and do the job, i have no problems with females.

[NCRSQ751]

I agree. Standards should be the same for men and women. After all, your buddy isn't going to be any lighter for you if you have to haul him out of a burning building just becaus you're female... And any self respecting woman would agree that it should all be the same for everyone.

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Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[firemedic28]

I am new to the fire service as a career ff from the world of EMS. I am a female. There is nothing easy about fighting fire whether you are a male or a female. The important thing is that all members of the team hold up their end and support each other.

[Captstanm]

I think all of you are right on track. The Dinosaurs need to wake up and get a life! If you can do the job...Man or Woman.... then let you do the job!

[Gin]

WOW! Welcome to a new century... buddy, I'm impressed. If a woman can do the job - go girl! There should be no double standards... NONE - it's dangerous. Why can't some men accept this? If she's just as good at the job, just as motivated, and just as well trained. Perhaps some men are afraid of having one of the "last great frontiers" (a.k.a. Good 'ol boys club)of male dominated employment invaded by women. Other men may see it as an opportunity for males and females to be totally equal. This can't just be about bathrooms anymore!

God Bless,

~g

[Diane]

With full gear and SCBA on -- how can one tell who's who anyway?? http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

[FyredUp]

Gin,

I am all for anyone who can meet the standards getting a job as a firefighter. In fact I can recall when the first woman came through the Tech school I teach at part-time. I guess maybe that tells how old I am.

Unfortunately, the reality of the situation is this, standards were changed in many places. Now before you jump on me and call me a good old boy, let me explain.

In some places tests were changed to make them more job oriented. Basic job skills as tests replaced the old strength and endurance non-job related testing. This seems to me to be fair and just. The same job related tests for all. Unfortunately this occurred at the same time as a large influx of women into the fire service, hence the perception the standards were changed for women.

I have heard enough stories of bias and favoritism towards whatever type of candidate the FD needs to hire at that time to have to believe that at least some of them are true. How do we end those instances and stories? I don't know. But as long as favoritism in hiring is given to any group, whether white males, females, or those of color the stories and the hard feelings will continue.

I am in the process myself of trying to recruit women for my volunteer FD. I believe that women can do the job. But I don't anymore believe that every woman can do the job than I believe every man can. This isn't for everyone, plain and simple.

Fairness and equality in hiring practices as well as promotional opportunities must be just that, fair and equal to all.

Remember the mission, save lives and property.

Stay safe,

Don

[Chief Izzy]

My thanks to all that believe that if a woman can do the job, then so be it. I came into the fire service 13 yrs ago, at a time when we weren't readily accepted, and it took more to prove myself than others, but I stuck it out, and I now am a career firefighter, as well as the EMS Chief of our Dept, as we are a combined Dept.

I, too, agree that standards should NOT be changed to suit the sex of the employee/member. I dont find it fair, plain and simple.

If you can do the job, then so be it, no matter what you are. But for any women toying with the idea of becoming a firefighter, let me tell you, don't go into it, just to have the " title ",,,, go into it with an open mind, be tough, and be ready to be an equal, and pull your weight.
Put your mind to it, and you can do it,
and you will be accepted.

It may be a struggle, as some other women have expressed, be it with the S/O's, or feeling out of place when you are a rookie, and there is always going to be that constant worry, " am I going to be good enough?"
Take it one challenge at a time,
If it is your dream, as I found that it was for me,
then nothing can stop you.
And I can say that these past 13 yrs have been the best. There is no other job that I would ever do.
Each year, I find more challenges to take on, and our dept is close knit,,, I am the only full-time female in the Dept,
(we had one other, but she has since gone part time)
I am not looked at as " her " or " the woman ", I am the Chief, Izzy, or whatever,
I am an equal in the eyes of my brothers.
I can do what everyone else does.
HazMat Tech, Instructor, etc.

so, don't let the older, closed minded men keep you from your dream, if that is what it is,
and to all those that stuck it out with me, I thank them,
and to those that accept women for the job that we CAN do,
thank you


Stay Safe

Chief Izzy
Chf. 198

[Fyrebugg41]

Okay, i'm a female firefighter. I've been in since i was 14. I could care less what the guyz think. I do have lots of friends, maily because i grew up in the FD and i'm not crying if a break a nail. LoL. But see, i finished my Junior years as captain. I'm 21 now and currently the only girl in my engine company. I am a Fire Warden and secretary for my company. I'm getting the fire prevention committee organized, and currently hold the office of 1st asst. captain on our brush truck. And yes, i can even drive and pump the damn thing http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif And as for everything being the same...i sometimes run into problem with guyz thinking i'm too weak for some stuff. And it's true, but i'll tell you what i can and can't do, NO ONE else will be telling ME. I wouldn't give it up for all the money in the world!!! Stay safe!

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~*That's why we're here, to help those in need, we're not here for money, fame, or greed..To help those fellow friends, who can't help themselves..We're volunteers because we care, because we want to help, to help others who are in need, not for ourselves*~

[Gin]

FyredUp,

Hey... I'm not saying you're a "good 'ol boy", in fact, I commend you for being open-minded. Bottom line: if women want to be equal, we should be hired equally. Many departments have no affirmative action policies in place anymore. Women ARE earning their jobs. Ladies, earn it. This profession is too dangerous to be hired because they need 5%. Don't settle for that.

God Bless,

~g

[csgos]

I began in the fire service thrity years ago (I am now 46). There were no women in the service. In 1981, I met one of the female firefighters. I saw her work at overhaul. I thought she did a fine job, and I complimented her on it. Now, she is a captain of an engine house (I am also a captain in a double house). I have a lot of respect for her, and her judgement is preety sound. She is also a member of our bomb squad (our fire department handles bomb incidents).

She has earned her position, no one gave it to her.

As a matter of fact, a neighboring fire department (professional) has a female fire chief.

To summarize, if a woman feels and demonstrates through testing and OJT that she can do the job, then more power to her.

Remember this, if you get caught in a bad situation, a woman may be the only one available to get you out of it

[FyredUp]

Gin,

Thank you for understanding What I was saying. Sometimes this topic gets so mired in retoric that the points being made aren't listened to, let alone heard.

We have had as many as 5 women at one time on my volly FD. They were expected to do everything everyone else did. And...they did. Unfortunately, they have all moved out of town. In some cases to other jobs and others for Love. I was not disappointed with their performance and would welcome any and all of them back in a heart beat. In fact I lost my best MPO(motor pump operator) when she moved out of town.

Reality says both sexes are doing the job. The thing that I fail to understand is the remaining confrontational attitudes. It isn't only the men either. I have known women firefighters who seemed to revel in the controversy. Some that seemed to almost challenge guys to say or do the wrong thing. Again, let me explain. I understand there are dinosaur attitudes amongst many men in the fire service. But I have worked with a woman who scrutinized every encounter with the men on the job to see if she could use it against them. Why? Why go out of your way to do that? Of course if you are being harrassed, overtly or covertly, you have a right to follow appropriate means for rectifying the situation. But why be purposely looking for trouble? It only makes sense that trouble will find you then.

Maybe I am naive or perhaps more open minded to giving people a fair opportunity to prove themselves. I refuse to allow the negativity of others in this area to destroy my idealism.

Take care all of you, I wish you much success and happiness in your lives and careers.

Don

[Quint1Medic]

I get frustrated the same way you do, Chief. Either people can be realistic about the time it takes to adjust to a new situation, or they can go charging in expecting everyone to act JUST right, right NOW. Attitudes and perceptions take time to change, and it would be nice if firefighters and administration could remember that.
Fair or not, what I do reflects on every other woman in the fire service, simply because there are still so few of us. Several years ago in our department, there was a situation where it was perceived that a female firefighter had done exactly what you describe. It's been years-I wasn't even in yet-and I still hear about it. We don't have a license to act however we want to, because the men have been lectured and nagged so much they're afraid to open their mouths!
Mind you, I'm not criticizing women (or men) with a legitimate complaint-I've been through that, too, and it's not fun. However, when I hear about women that act in a self-serving, constantly gender-conscious manner, I just want to thump 'em. I suspect a lot of other female firefighters feel the same way.

[Captstanm]

Some interesting reading in this post for sure. To Chief Izzy, I say...way to go. You started at the bottom and climded the ladder with all the rest. As I have said, there are several women who I have worked with that could out perform some male firefighters on the fireground and behind the wheel. I am sure they will move up to be fine officers. In fact I have encouraged some of them to compete and make some of those "wanna be's" work for those promotions. I am sure if they were to compete, they would be a force to be reckoned with. On the other hand, I know of several female firefighters, some of which are paramedics, that have no desire to be promoted and they are still darned good at their jobs. All's fair as long as the same rules and standards apply. Keep up the good work!

[Chief Izzy]

To Captstanm, thank you.....a compliment from someone more experienced than me means a lot.

Yes, I did climb the ladder the same as the rest,
and I now have a list of qualifications that still amazes some people, but I am the type that is always looking for more to learn, and more to master.
I have always been fortunate, in the sense that anyone in my depts, be it either Vol. or career, that have stood by me, and have also encouraged me to do more. I dont have a problem with the men that i work with, when I am in charge, I don't have anyone questioning my calls or judgements, and I also am not afraid to ask for help, when i am teamed with someone with more experience and more knowledge on a given situation. And that seems to add to the respect that I have gained.
I remember, when I was going through training, and we were doing ground and roof ladder ops, I was given the choice of taking a smaller ladder to the side of the building, as I was smaller, and they didnt know if I could do it, and to the amazement of my instructors, I told them NO,,,,, I will do what everyone else is required to do,
and I took the 24' extension,, and layed it to the side of the building, unassisted,and to this day, I think that THAT type of attitude has helped me in many ways...
I normally don't brag about the qualifications that I have,
I am proud of the fact that there isn't anything that i won't do,
but , as you said, there are women that can go the distance BETTER than some men, and our former Fire Chief, had his reservations at first,
but now that I am an Engineer, have ICS, am a HazMat Tech, Confined Space Rescue qualified, an Instructor for our Fire Dept,to include extinguishers, alarm systems, fire suppression systems, pump qualifications assistant,I am also currently working on an Instructors certification for EVOC, [as I am the best driver of the pumper at the station...heee heeee ] as well as many titles on the EMS side,to include instructor for CPR, AED, and others,
he has changed his story. Everyone wonders if someone can do the job,at first, its normal... I dont try to rub it in, that because of being a woman, I can do all this,
that is just as unfair as different standards, although, I imagine that there have been times that we all have done it, whether intentional or not....

I dont treat anyone any differently , as I would expect them to do the same.
I DO have a problem with " slackers", everyone has them in their depts, but they aren't looked at as slackers due to their sex.

I also agree with Captstanm, as there is interesting reading in this post, no doubt about that,

stay safe to all

Izzy

[WOODMAN]

HEY IF THE STANDARDS ARE THE SAME SO WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME FIELD I DO NOT HAVE A PROBLEM
IN SOME AREAS THEY(FEMALES)MAYBE BETTER.AS LONGAS THEY PULL THEIR WEIGHT AND DUTIES I WILL GO FOR A WOMAN ON THE DEPARTMENT.TELL HER TO JOIN UP AND HELP OUT LIKE YOU WOULD ANY NEW MEMBER THAT JUST JOINED

TOM

[hmcemt]

As a current Emt-b student and a wife of a firefighter this is certainly interesting reading. I will say this... I do not believe that standards in testing or training should be different for women. In real life there are no extra minutes to drag your partner out of a burining building, there may be no help there when you have to lift that 300lb patient or carry the jaws across the road to a vehicle and people are counting on you. If a female cannot fullfill the same standards that men can in testing and training then she needs to get back to the gym and get a mindset in place if it is what she wants to do. I made the decision to become an EMT-P and as I am in school I am not only preparing myself for my job responsibilities but I am also putting myself in a mindset that I will be expected to perform just as well as any male on the department and that I must be in top physical condition in order to fulfill my duties properly and efficiently. Coming from a pretty independent female ..... take it from me and all the other brave females that have posted their responses here. We should not and will not make excuses for ourselves in this career choice.

[Rail Buff]

I have a real basic attitude, if you are a qualified, capable hand, grab some gear and come on. I don't care if you're male, female, or green with purple polkadots.

Tim Rogers, Lt., NREMT-P
Baytown Fire & Rescue
Baytown, TX

[Sherlock]

I just finished rookie school in September and I have been on Shift since then. I was the only female in a class of 25. There were no separate standards and I did everything that everyone else did. I was not the strongest in the class, but I was not the weakest either. It was a good class full of good people and 24 of us graduated. I was ranked 3 in my class. This ranking was based on test scores, PT scores, and evaluations during drills. I went in to the whole thing thinking that if I showed that I was capable of performing well in all of the tasks that we were required to perform, I would be accepted by everyone. I was a little nieve in my thinking. I was given the cold shoulder by some of the men in the class and at first it hurt my feelings a little. I know that everything I do is scrutinized and picked apart by some of my coworkers, and I know that things are said behind my back sometimes, but I also know that the majority of the guys know that I can do my job well, and that every one of the people in my department, including the ones that have a problem with me being here, are great people and I would do anything for any one of them. For those of you who are thinking of going into the service, don't be surprised if there are people who don't want you there, but keep in mind that no matter what, these guys are still your brothers. If you keep doing your job, maybe do a little extra, your reputation will push through the gossip.

[Quint1Medic]

Sherlock - That was succinctly put. They should print that up and hand it out to every female rookie! I've had a similar experience-people will talk around you, behind your back, and above your head, but not TO you. That takes some work to get through, and all I can say is that it does get better. Everyone IS watching what we do, and the fact that we're in a minority makes it that much easier to pick us out when we do goof! It's part of the territory, though...I don't s'pose any of us took the job because we thought it would be easy http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/smile.gif

[JAKE28]

If a PERSON is qualified they should be given a equal shot at the job. And Chief Izzy sounds like a really great role model, and not just for the women. See you at the BIG one. BE SAFE.

[firepony]

As a female with a "male" job I have learned quite a bit about the attitudes of men when you step into their "world"--I was a long-distance trucker (solo driver) for 12 years and have heard it all--it is a boy's club but if you are able to perform the job and do not ask for favors and changes of policy,if you can handle the associated stress and take a bit of abuse,then they will accept you.Looking to be hired as a firefighter once my training is over will not be easy,but my heart is in it more than they expect--the only problem other than the stereotyping is the fact that I am almost 40--so far I have been able to keep up with the boys in all the tests and actually do better in some,because I HAVE TO--and as with all the other male dominated jobs--persistance,heart and ability will win--as long as you don't fall back into the "girlie" mode and blame your gender for your inability to perform a task.

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[This message has been edited by firepony (edited May 06, 2000).]

[BamBamEMTD]

It's 2000 folks, if a female can do the job then let her have at it, its hard enough these days to even recruit volunteers. I do believe STRONGLY in equal standards.
I hear alot about how women need to be strong enough to do the job and i agree, but not all guys on a department are of equal strength.We all know what we are capable of handling.
Some of the women are small and lack a lot of strength which may make them a liability, but what about the guys on the department that are WAY over weight are they not a liability.A woman of small stature might have a problem hauling me,6'0-195lbs, but what about me having to haul out some of the guys that go 280 to 350lbs. They might be smaller but less likely to die on scene of a MI.

[Robert P Jorgensen]

Been doing this since 1988. Have no problem with a female in the fire service as long as they can do the same job. I do have a question for all that have posted - How do "we" as the fire service get rid of the stigma that came when standards were changed and a sudden in flux of women and minorities were hired? Hate to say it but I know of a test that was given to a minority community service to assist with "studing for the test", only problem - IT WAS THE SAME TEST! Also everyone is interviewed as john or jane doe - only I personally was asked TECHNICAL FIREFIGHTING questings based on my background, kind of put me on the spot/hot seat for what they wanted.

This is the problem, so again I ask how do we get rid of the stigma they "we" the fire service put on ourselves when we changed the standards and had the influx.

If a Women can do it so be it and if my wife don't like it - and eveyone knows what I'm talking about - She, the wife has the problem. We've talked on this topic and we've been married 20 yrs.

[Quint1Medic]

Tell ya what, it steams me every time I hear about standards being lowered. If I can't manage to haul a relatively lightweight dummy a hundred feet when it really counts (to get a job) then am I going to be able to do it when it REALLY counts (to save a life)?

I'm perfectly willing to admit that I'm not as strong as the others in my company - but I also know that if there's a little attic hatch to be crawled through, or a narrow gap between buildings to be slithered down, they're gonna turn around and look at me. I get sent up on the ladder tip to do overhaul because I'm a "little guy," and that suits me just fine. Still, a lot of the tasks that are easier for the men simply because they have more "***" to put into it, I have to finesse. Sometimes that's not an option, though. I've carried a 240-lb firefighter in full turnout down a ladder, and if it wasn't the fastest or most graceful process, we made it down and I didn't drop him. We all have strong points, and mine just happen to involve tight spots!

[code3firefly]

I am a female that has just joined the fire service about a year ago. I have always wanted to be a firefighter ever since I was a little girl. I curently Vol., but the attitudes are still the same. Some of the old guys smile to my face, and watch me just waiting for me to screw up so they can say, "see a girl can't do it". But the young guys are eager to help me learn, and let me make mistakes with out blaiming it on gender. I love the fire service, and had I gotten into it earlier I would be doing it full time rather than vol. but that is neither here nor there. Our chief told the guys that since there are three ladies on the dept, they'd better get used to the fact that if we are the better trained firefighters on scene then WE would go into the fire and not the guys. I have told several of the guys I know to have a problem with females being there that I am one of THEM in the turnout gear. I can do the same job, and I expect to be treated the same. They respect that, and no one seems to have a problem with it. I know that years ago women didnt do this kind of stuff, and the older guys have a time adjusting to seeing women on the fire ground. I know some women dont take the oddd looks, and snide comments that they get some times very well. I take it all in stride. I say that if you cant take the heat, dont fight the fires.

[Chief Izzy]

for the question of how can " we " change the stigma,,,,, well, for starters, dont look at what is UNDER the uniform,,,,,, treat all the rookies as they are, someone new, that may need a little guidance,and take them for the job that they can do, and the job that they want to do, the comments and sarcasm is never going to end, that is just the nature of humans, although I have found that the most common reason for this type of behavior is the fear of being out done, and shown up, which, if you think about it, is quite childish,,,,
if we can all keep the being treated as equal attitude, then it WILL go away,,,,,
IF the newbie can do the job, if they cant, well, then, Im sorry, they shouldnt be there,
plain and simple,
its one thing if they just need a little help, but when you lower the standards, so that others can get in,,, that isnt right, and its only asking for trouble...
the only way to start to change attitudes is to act different, it will eventually catch on, there is no easy solution,
and yes, the S/O's need to learn to deal with being in mixed company at work,
my god, would they worry that much if you had a job in an office? if they are that insecure, then, and no offense is meant by this, then there might be a need for some counseling. There must be an underlying reason for not trusting a guy, because there is a woman in the dept
and women,
you dont have to try and outdo yourselfs to be accepted, but you do need to learn how to keep up with the men, and by that, I mean some of the conversations that go on, and y'all know what I mean by that,
you have to be mature enough to handle the comments, and the conversations, you would be surprised at the change in attitudes when you get into an " adult" conversation, just for example.... you dont have to be crude about it, but everyone knows what I am talking about,
its not just that women might not be able to do the job, anymore,
there is also that hint of " watch what you say around her,,, we dont need the sexual harrassment allegations..."
women, you have to make your brothers understand that you know that there are going to be certain topics that are going to be " sex-related"
just because there is that kind of conversation, doesnt mean that they are harrassing anyone, and it also doesnt mean that you cant join in,
there are ways to get along, that will ease the fears of the latest FAD,,,,, those dirty words..........

if you see something starting, like accusations, that person can be pulled aside, and get them to understand that its a new millennium,,,,,,,,,,,, things are different, but ya gotta be tactful about it,,,, they will come around, its not a quick fix, overnight type of thing,,,,,,,

and to Jake28,,,, thanx so much for the compliment,,,,,,,,,,

take the newer ones under your wing, and show them the right direction, and lead by example, dont preach,
and you will be surprised at your results,
I've found that it works wonderfully.........


remember." we go in together,,,we all come back alive............"

Izzy
izzy

[WOODMAN]

Way to go Chief Izzy.When ever we got a new
member of the department I never carried if they had a different color skin,different ethnic background,or where a different sex then I was,cause on the fireground the people you protect do not care who is there do does the fire care who is there and I am sorry to say not enough departments and chiefs do not have this same view and until we treat everyone as a equal we will always have this problem.

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[FFCadet16]

In Some cases I know of men are afraid that things will change. Also, tell your friend that she shouldn't have to worry about what the guys think of her in the department,and that guys should have to worry about her being great.

[icewoman]

I think anyone mentally and physically fit can do the job. It's all the matter of state of mind and state of body. Women definitely have to be athletic and physically fit. I love the feeling of making a difference. It's still hard for the "good ole boy" system to act around us. Our department has over 600 firefighters with 16 women and our Chief is a female. Everyone respects her from all over the world. Our department will be hosting the 2001 Women in the Fire Service and I would recommend it to any officer (especially male) to try and attend. All types of women's issues wil be addressed from all over the world. If your department has or is planning to hire women, this will help alot.

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Michele Ice
Firefighter
Cobb County, Georgia

[Daisy]

I am a British girl who has just joined a vol FD in the USA. I have experienced no bad feelings or comments at all. In fact just the opposite. I have been treated with patience, helpfulness and a willingness to share knowledge.

[CHFD126]

A good friend of mine is a female FF. She has been doing it for about 10 years. I'd go anywhere with her. She pulls her own weight, doesn't ask for special considerations, and would even fight you for the nozzle at a good job. My theory is that if someone can do the job, not whine about the work (male or female), and allow you to trust them... then let's give him or her the chance.

[huntere6]

Just a reminder to those who have not been paying attention over the, oh last 20 years , THE STANDARDS FOR ENTRY LEVEL FIREFIGHTER HAVE BEEN LOWERED INORDER TO FACILITATE THE FEMALE GENDER ON THE JOB. ONE MORE NEWS FLASH, MEN AND WOMEN ARE NOT EQUAL...Those are stone cold facts.

[NCRSQ751]

Hunter, I don't know exactly what rock you came out from under, but most progressive (decent) departments these days do not lower the standards, they are the same.

And as has been posted over and over here, the women don't want the standards lower, they want the same shot and expect to do the same work. That is why women are progressing in the fire service, because they CAN do the same job and they are proving it daily all over the country.

Come out into the sunshine and view the reality - women in emergency services - including the fire service - are here to stay - EQUALLY.

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Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[FireRebel]

I am all for it, I know women who can do a great job out there in the field! god bless the woman!

[firegal]

I think that Hunter may have a few insecurities about having women on the job. I've met men like him, and I am glad to say that there is currently no one like him serving on my department. I don't know what gave him an attitude like that, but this job is about teamwork. I agree there are a lot of women out there that can't do the job, but I have also seen a lot of men that have NO business being on the fireground. I know that I can pull my weight on the fireground. Luckily I don't have to deal with a LIEUTENANT like Hunter on a daily basis.

[This message has been edited by firegal (edited July 04, 2000).]

[Fireman Ry]

First off, I want to thank all of you for replying to my post. Congratualtions to Chief Izzy for her accomplishments. To Hunter, I see that you are an Lt. I'm assuming in Washington, DC. An attitude like that is not good for an officer to have. An officer should be open-minded to new ideas and EQUAL to everybody.

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Ryan B.
Stay Safe
Warminster Fire Department
Station 90
Bucks County

[RetFireCapt]

Having served in the fire service almost 37 years, I have seen many changes. Females joining the previously male brotherhood was one of them. I have served in both career and volunteer departments and have worked with females in both. As far as I am concerned, gender has nothing to do with a person being a good firefighter or being able to hold their own on the fire ground.

I retired from a department that has over 100 female firefighters. Can all of them do the job? No, but neither can a lot of the white or minority males.

I was asked the question many times if women belonged in the fire service. My answer was always the same. I don't care if the person is male, female, white, hispanic, or whatever, I expect them to perform any assignment given to them in a timely manner. Time on the fireground can be critical and any firefighter who is not proficient in his/her skills can be a determent on the fireground.

As far as females feeling they are not accepted into their assigned companies this holds true for males as well. Until a new firefighter can prove themselves as part of their assigned crew, there is speculation as to whether or not they can perform their assignments. Yes, you completed recruit school and were the top of your class, however, you haven't shown your abilities in a true emergency!

Rich


[This message has been edited by RetFireCapt (edited July 07, 2000).]

[Snackbar]

Being that Im from the Wash. DC area, I just want to say thanks to Bonnie, Lori, Diana,and Lorrie. They were part of my crew at Co. 13, and they were more dedicated and worked harder than most of the guys I know.We put our lives on the line many times together and I never thought of them as "girls". It was a pleasure working with them. Maybe one day we can do it again...
Love and Peace,
Snackbar

[JMP17]

I scan these post just to see how people feel about different things and on this one they are varied. I just want to say I don't care who or what gender you are as long as you can do the job, and Ive seen a few gals out there that can do it better than alot of guys I know. I had my *#s saved from going through a floor by a lady Capt. whom I've had the pleasure of takin on Mr. Fire severaltimes with. I would have never thought she could lift me(I'm a little on the large side.) but as I was going through she put out an arm and pulled me up. So don't tell me a lady can't do the JOB!

Stay safe & Take care of each other!!!
JMP17

[battoneb]

I am new to this forum, in fact, I just registered today. I am a member of a paid department with some 275 uniformed personnel. We currently have no women in fire suppression.

I don't know what that says, except that so far to date, no women have scored high enough on the written test to be hired, and only one has passed the physical agility test. She wasn't hired due to her position on the eligibility list. I am not sure how many women have applied over the years, but I know it is well over 150 or so.

What I think that all means is that MOST women aren't suited for the fire service. LIke most of the posters to this forum, I think that women who can demonstrate the ability to do the job should be hired. I don't think any preferences should be given to anyone based on their gender or skin color.

[de_fibber]

lemme see....
brains work the same,well maybe women tend to pay more attention to detail as a gender in the whole.but as a gender they also tend to be smaller,slower,weaker in muscle and bone density there i reckon that women in the fire service,esp. ones who crack iaff are the elite women of the word,bar none.
my sisters

[de_fibber]

before ya burn hunters balls remember he's right,he's seeing it.our dept gives standard civil service written followed by basiccally,a combat challange,but you also must be able to sit in drivers seat and reach the pedals,(there went a bunch).our standards have been the same,an we been around a while.3 yr list if you make the top twenty you got a good chance,and its never been done,by a women.been some very good ones too,which brings me back to the fact that the ones who are are just like my sister the ponygirl

[Diane]

When the gear is on -- how can you tell who's male or female, black or white anyway??

And isn't it a good thing to be small sometimes -- confined space?? Maybe some of you don't have that training in your area.

As for the gentleman (and I use that term loosely) who mentioned the 150 applicants in TX -- maybe it's mentality like yours that keeps the women from applying?

Women have only actively been in the fire service about 20 years or so and the fire service has been around for 300 years -- it certainly isn't going be all peachy overnight. I've been in almost 10 years and we only have 3 women. It's just not the "norm" yet. Godwilling, maybe someday it will be.

[firediver2000]

I don't understand why anyone would not accept women into the fire service. My wife is a member of a small Union fire department her in Ohio. She is the only full time female. She was one of those who helped to bring on board the IAFF. Members of the Command Staff did what they could to keep the union out. But they failed. They are all young members and their inexperience is their biggest stumbling block. Their inmaturity shows when they try to pressure her into leaving. she has no one to turn to in the department or the local government she works for. She has proved herself very able to do the job and to perform with superior performance. She has spent her own money to advance her skills and has out done those other male she work with. While the other complain all the time and DO nothing, she does her details and keeps busy with other projects of her own. I have been in this job for better than 20 years. I have worked with men and women and have found most are an asset. I treat every member fairly and make my own opinion of them. If they're was a problem, I would talk to that member and would expect the same in return. Their wanting her out shows me that they are afraid of their own self and the ability to do the job. Too much freelancing! The Fire Chief is only part time where he works full time with another government (county) non fire agency. The Deputy Chief is another part timer who works for the Federal gov't full time as a members of the fire service. I would intrested in what the N.O.W. people would say why you don't have more females and why don't you keep the ones you have. I have no problems with anyone in doing the job, just for the the ones trying to slide through it.

[Sunshine]

I really love this subject. For the simple reason that I had to fight for the right to be EQUAL. Now 3 years later i have moved up the ladder, as many other women have. My respons to this issue, I have been on my department for some time now, I have seen women come and go by the handfulls, some being afraid of the 12 station practical test that you have to take at the end of our training. Well Ladies I completed the training and passed all the physical test at 5 months pregnant. My instructors were impressed to say the least, when I graduated
I got a standing ovation, from the insturctors and all of the men in our class of 34. I know what I can and can not do on the fire grounds, and being the only woman that works on our department,as a career ff, so do most of the guys. We have 2 other women on the department as vollys, and I know they are there for the same reason that I am.

To Protect and Conserve Life,limb,and Property.
Stay Safe

Sunshine

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[Ratman]

The truth is that the people "in charge" (I mean politicians and human resource people) really don't understand what fire fighting is all about. I have no problem with female firefighters. I've worked with them. Some are very good, others I would never go inside a house with. The same goes with some men I work with. The simple truth is that men are sronger. You know that firefighting is a very hard job. Not many women could pass the pat test so the standards were lowered. This is what ****es the men off. The job is the same so why treat them different? The day the standard was lowered was the worst day for the female firefighter.This did a huge disservice to the women who worked hard and really deserved the job.They were all put in the same group. Women want to be treated like equals but yet want different standards, go figure. The fact that they ask on the application your sex and race is disscrimination.In This job you need the best, so take the person who is the best, don't look at the gender, race, age. The people you serve deserve the best, not a number for a report.

[SRVFD2]

We have men in our vol. f.d., and we have women - but the backbone of the dept. is the husband-wife teams!! It's a whole bunch easier to understand why your husband is going to a fire in the middle of the night if you have to go with him!!

[Fire Line]

The problem with woman in the fire service is there isn't enough. Right now we only have one with two more in training. We train side by side, nobody gives them slack and they don't expect it.

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[Trooperchelly]

Go for it girlfriend!
I started in the fire service when I was 18 and the daughter of the Captain. You want to talk about having to pull my own weight and more so no one could say I was being given special privileges or babied! I'll be the first to admit some of the best Captains and BC's I ever worked under were female.
I'm all for women in the fire service. In general I prefer to work with women in EMS situtations. I think if the woman can pull the wieght of a man then go for it.
The day I can't do the job as well as my fellow male firemen is the day I'll step down before I compromise a situation. Pride is not an excuse for being honest.
I wish all women the best in the their careers.
Michele Talley
Training Officier
Helix Rural Fire Department

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Live life on purpose.

[bruno]

It's a case by case thing, just like any job. I've met men who can't do the job, the problem can be that they get more slack from thier buddies than the women. I don't have any station related problems with our female training officer. (she's quite a neighbor though) She really knows her stuff & could save my *** from a bind if needed. Being real tall helps, heh.

[mrsfirefighter]

I am one of two females at my department of 45 paid personnel. I'm proud to say that I have been treated as an equal over my 5 years of service. I made it clear when I started that I didn't expect any special treatment and earned their respect. I work hard, stay fit, love training and have...as everyone in this business should...a good sense of humor. http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/biggrin.gif

I've only run into a couple of problems that were concerning gender. My depatment has mandatory 2 hour PT every morning which I love. A firefighter complained about my PT attire...a fitted workout t-shirt and baggy sweatpants. I found it humorous since this FF spent his PT time on the couch. Needless to say, that was over before it got started. http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/wink.gif

Being that I am a firefighter, most of my friends are guess what...firefighters. Which of course means they are men. As a matter of fact I am very close to several of the guys. We talk on the phone, take classes together, go out and whatever else friends do. After working 24 hour shifts with them for 5 years and entrusting eachother with our lives...what are we supposed to be? OK...so we're FAMILY! My husband has never had a problem with this. He knows they're my buddies. Unfortunately, there are people who can't understand how we can "just be friends" and like to "stir the pot" with accusations. It really bumms me out that I actually do get treated as an equal and others try to make it a problem. http://www.firehouse.com/interactive/boards/rolleyes.gif

[bigmamamedic1]

I happen to agree with the others, if she is serious and can handle the professional side as well as adjusting, which there is the adjusting side, for both sexes, Hell Go For It!
I was the only female on a department with 32 men, finally another female joined, I thought it was going to be great.
I was suprised to find out what a squirrel she was. That made me have to work 10x's harder to prove that I was serious about my career in emergency services.
I hope all works o.k.

[mossh]

I am a female volunteer in a dept. with only 3 women and I agree. As hard as the work is, it is imperative that all standards be the same. There are times in training when you wish it were easier but this would not benefit anyone. Woman, I think are a great asset to the fire service. When you put your life in someone else's hands weather they be female or male you bet they'd better be capable of that responsibility.

[BMTFD]

Just remember somewhere at sometime your services will be needed and then your work speaks for itself.Just be patient your time will come and the guys will come around.I know Ive been there and now I have 39 guys that go out of there way to make me feel as though I belong.

[duerr2]

I don't think the standards should be changed for anyone. The fire doesn't care if you're a man, woman, mother, father, friend or jerk! You'll still be just as dead if you aren't capable of handling the responsibilities of your position. We have a dangerous profession and we can't afford to change standards to meet quotas. As far as liabilities go, I think there should be re-evaluations of firefighters physical well being on a periodic basis. This job requires strength, stamina, agility, etc, etc, etc. The practice of "passing the test to get the job" and never doing it again is silly, not to mention dangerous! Stay safe and keep healthy.

[OSIRIS500]

I go who is able to do the job. there are men in fire departments who are loads and are not good fireman and just collect paychecks. If women can do the job let them be, but I can't stand female firefighters who can't do the job.

[Firelover]

I would like to see more women in the service. In our Deptartment, we have 3 and everytime that we hire, we try to encourage women to apply, but there just isn't anyone out there that's intersted.

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Joel

If you sent us to HELL, WE'D PUT IT OUT!!

[Pastor Dawn]

I've been on the job for 17 years now, and there will always be some men who just won't accept women, just like there will always be women who think they are better than anyone else. The best thing to do is be yourself. The women will appreciate it, the men will respect you and (most) everyone will be happy.

Let's all be safe out there!!!

[fieryred]

I have always had the belief that if you can pull the same weight as everyone else you deserve a chance to be there. Standards shouldn't change because it is your life and the lives of those you work with.

The only person who will tell me I can't do the job is me. I know my limitations, I know how far I can push myself. And the time when I can no longer do the job to the best of my abilities is when I retire.

We all wear the same uniform... tc & ss

If you sent us to Hell... We'd put it out!!