Balance between work and socializing

[IAH Rookie]

OK, guys and gals... maybe you can help me.... I am new to the fire service and could use your help because I don't seem to be doing this balancing act too well.....

OK, when I am at the station, I am one of the guys, or as much as I can be because being female, I know I will never truly be one of guys realistically... but I am accepted as a part of the crew and have no problems with that.... The guys I work with, in my opinion, are the best crew anyone could ask for.... where I run into a problem is when it is time to socialize...... when we are out away from the station, and I am dressed up, with makeup on, (anything not in duty uniform)... they treat me differently.... which is good, they do recognize that I am female.. but the problem is that the wives and girlfriends are stand-offish towards me no matter how friendly I am, or what I do... so, this makes it hard.. these guys are my best friends.. the ones I would count on for anything, but yet when out socially, I don't fit in with them, and don't fit in with their wives/girlfriends...

Guys that have worked with females before, know that it is very professional at the station.... that the "hanky panky" doesn't go on... but civilians seem to have a problem with this... not only wives/girlfriends.. but guys that I meet while out socially. Yes, I am single... and although a general assumption about females in the f.d. is that they are there to meet men... that is 99% of the time not true... especially in paid departments... I have no desire to date another firefighter ... I love my job and would do nothing to jeopardize it or my relationships with any of the guys in the f.d. I know....

Even when I have shown up with a date to a function, the wives/girlfriends have been stand-offish to me.. so my date ends up hanging with the men and have more fun... Don't take me wrong.. I do get in and joke around... there is just a lot of tension in this type of setting and like I said before, the guys treat me different, and I am sure I act a little different. I just feel out of place. I do have a completely different set of friends that have nothing to do with the f.d. but I would like to figure out how to be able to go out with the group that are like my family and none of us feel awkward... barring showing up in duty uniform.....

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated as when we have talked about it at the station, the guys say they don't know how to treat me because it is different... and I agree, it is completely different.... and I am sure that if they joke around with me too much, their significant others would be a little perturbed (even though I never would be a threat and would never do anything to jeopardize any of their relationships.... that is why i am having this problem... i end up being more quiet and reserved to not cause problems for them, therefore I have an entirely different personality... I feel like I am just tagging along, that I don't really belong.)

Does anyone have any suggestions for this dilemma? Any would be greatly appreciated and considered. It has been almost a year and nothing any of us has tried has seemed to work.

(And for those of you thinking that women should not be in the fire service for this reason alone, or that I should have been prepared for this... I knew it would be hard... I am just trying to get assistance in how to make things easier by ones that have been in this situation before.... only thing I can come up with to not cause problems is just not to go out with them as a group)

Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

Lynn

[sleepy]

Cant say any of this is gonna work, and in an ideal world you wouldn't have to worry about it, but...

Can you try making an extra effort to get to know the spouses at the social functions instead of sticking with the guys? If you can get to know some of them maybe you can talk about your worries that they don't understand your intentions, and at least you might get a few female allies. I'm sure they'd be interested to hear about what it's like to be a female firefighter or what their guy is like at work. Or you might decide all your coworkers are involved with jerks, which will save you a lot of effort.

Also, consider how you dress at these functions. If you had a mug like fred flinstone I bet the other females wouldn't be too concerned. Sure you want to look nice, but it makes the other women wonder why. Wearing attractive clothing, jewlery, makeup and perfume are things women do to attract men. Unfortunately, being attractive, without making any effort in your appearance, comes across the same way. If the other women feel threatened by you they'd probably love if you showed up for these functions straight from working out in an old pair of sweats, but that might be a bit extreme.

This may not be what you wanted to hear, but the people I've known with similar problems all had personalities that seemed to cause it. One of my good friends is in a similar situation. She is much prettier than she realizes and she tends to wear especially nice clothing and jewlery and makeup. When she talks to people it comes across as flirtatious. It's not really what she says but how she says it--her posture, tone of voice, and a teasing/joking manner. The problem is that this is just how she talks. She doesnt sound any different when talking with females because she doesnt intend to be flirting, but males respond to her much more enthusiastically, which makes other females hostile. Its a problem at work because people dont feel she's professional. If you can, try asking a female friend if she sees anything in your behavior that could be upsetting those women.

Good luck, but do try to remember that if they insist on disliking you before they know you, their approval may not be worth the effort.

[IAH Rookie]

Thank you for your ideas..... Just so you know... I have shown up with and without makeup..... dressed up and in jeans and t-shirts... if anyone thinks I am going to go out to a club scrunged out they are wrong.... I have asked female friends if they see me doing anything to offend anyone and they say no, in fact they think I am too quiet and reserved..... Even when the wives/girlfriends come up to the station they are stand-offish with me... one of them (they have a 3 year old daughter) whenever she comes up I always play with the child, the wife tells the child to go find me and play with me, but the wife won't talk to me.... I guess I am good for a babysitter, but not good enough to have an adult conversation..LOL.... And every time we do go out, I do start out with the females.... but it gets old just standing around when they talk about things that I either don't do, or don't have anything in common... I am more of a tomboy type.. I hate shopping, usually don't wear a lot of makeup, play a lot of sports, not a mom, very low maintenance and definitely not a phoo-phoo type .....One of the guys always dates the "trophy type" (you guys..and gals know what I am talking about... beautiful, no brains, ornament for your arm) and then always complains that they are ok until they open their mouth..LOL...how the heck do you find something in common with that when their biggest concern is what the summer fashion catalog is going to have in it... when it comes to talking about work... Some of them have asked questions, but then ask why I want to do it, why would I want to do a "man's job"... etc...sometimes I think the women are worse than the men about women in the fire service...LOL...or in one instance, right after I first started I had a wife call me when at work and tell me nothing better ever happen to her husband, because she didn't believe I could do the same job and didn't have the strength and ability because females just aren't made that way.... etc... if you catch my drift...

As for talking to them about how their guys are when they are at work... there is kinda an unwritten rule... what goes on at the station stays at the station... and then again, I don't think many of them care, with the exception of whether or not something is going on between them and me...

I am not the flirty type.. like i said before, i am pretty much a tomboy and have actually been praised on my professionlism by my capt. in my 6 month review... that I was a hard worker, carried myself in a very professional manner, willing to do anything assigned to me, had yet to be in a position that I was unable to fulfill my duties, and was an asset in representing the station and department.. off the review he said sometimes he wishes I would loosen up a little more, that I get along and joke with the guys and they like having me on their crew... but sometimes he will notice that I will withdraw and keep quiet (which I know I do because I don't want anything to be construed wrong)

One thing you mentioned, about looks... the guys have told me that part of the problem could be that I am attractive with or without makeup (or so they say...I don't know whether or not I believe that...LOL...)and they have said that I have a very strong personality and am very confident and that can be intimidating to others.. but it is part of what they like about me and they have noticed that I am as time has gone on, I am getting more and more quiet and they hate seeing that when we are out.

They look at me like a little sister and that is all, and I wish the sig others could just understand that.

I am not worried about getting their acceptance, well maybe I am a little, it is more that I would like to enjoy the time out socially with the people I spend a big chunk out of my life with.

I will eventually make it through this hurdle, heck, I have been through worse...LOL.. but I thought maybe there would be some help out there from those in the fire service that have encountered similar problems with no avail.... or atleast even if I don't get it solved, to know that I am not alone out there...

Thanks once again for your reply

Lynn

[NCRSQ751]

In two words: Good Luck

I've been in it for over 12 years and it hasn't changed much.

In my own department we have enough women where it really isn't a problem, we have lots of couples that joined together.

When it comes to other departments around us it's another story. For instance, I stopped by a fire station to drop something off for one of the guys and another guy's wife shows up. She assumes that I was there to see him and they get into an argument.. ridiculous? You bet.

A female in the firehouse is a threat to insecure people no matter what you do. The key is that it isn't your problem, it's theirs. If you are there to do your job and enjoy it, including the friendships that go along with it they will either get used to it or continue to act like territorial felines. Either way you can't control it so stop trying.

Be you, dress as you are comfortable, go where you want and speak to who you want. As long as you don't go after someone's boyfriend/husband you will be fine in the long run - at least with the people that matter - the other department members.

There are unfortunately women that do join these departments to find men, and clandestine relationships that do form.. the 1% that gives everyone else a bad name. But to say that all women who join the Fire/Rescue service are looking for a man is like saying all men are looking to cheat.

Bottom Line: If they trusted their men and/or had the appropriate amount of self esteem, you would't worry them.

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Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[FFJenn_143820]

Lynn,
I'm the only female on my company, I've been a member for almost 4 yrs. It is tough. It has taken alot of hard work to get the guys to trust me and treat me like one of there own. As time goes on, you'll see for yourself who you really fit in with. It took about two years before I started to really fit in. I rarly go out socially with the guys, but when I do we have alot fun.
As far as wives/girlfriends, that's a whole other social click. The girlfriends/wives are probably more afraid of you moving in on their man more than anything else. Even though that is not your intention, thats how they see you, as a threat. And even though it makes perfect sense to try to make friends and get to know you as a FF, not just a women on the company. They'll watch you like a hawk at company social gatherings. I'm talking from experience too. Unfortunalty, you can't please everyone in general. The public eye is going to have their own views, weither they be positive or negative. No matter what you do, they will always have their own opinions, you can't change that.
My only advise, don't try so hard to get everyone to like and accept you. Let things take a natural course, be yourself and don't forget why your there. For the love of the job. I love my job as a firefighter, and at 5'0" 98lbs, people shook their head when I said I'm going to do this. It's not easy but I wish you all the luck in the world.
Be safe.
Jennifer Masi FF/EMT-D

[lady firefighter]

Hi Lynn,

I understand how you feel. I have a hard time making friends with certain women because I am a very confident, no nonsense kind of person, and I think a lot of people,women especially,are intimidated by that.

Being a single female and being a firefighter does put you in an awkward position, not only from you crew's significant others, but yours as well.

The only advise I can offer is keep doing what you are doing. Try to be friendly, but at the same time you don't have to pretend that the latest sale catalog or whatever else interests you if it doesn't. Do your best to find common interests, but that is a two way street. They have to put forth that effort too.

So keep your chin up, be proud of who you are and what you are. You must be a unique person do be successful as a firefighter...those other women are probably just jealous that you are strong, successful, and independent.

Take care.

Felicity

[Diane]

Well, I am one of three women in my dept. I hold the record at almost ten years. I also went to college and studied fire science in a very male dominated program. I came across a Mary Kay consultant last May and decided to join the company for the discount on product and for the women......It's the best thing I ever did. I now have women friends! What a concept! And they're nice!! Nothing caddy, there's no competition.......It's a great change.

[Rail Buff]

I don't know if a male view is welcome but here goes. It seems to me that part of the problem is not between you and the wives/girlfriends but with your crew. It seems that they haven't been able to convince their mates that you are not a threat. Unfortunately, this does take time. I'm a lieutenant on an engine company not too far from you and I have a very basic approach to the on-duty issue. If you are a qualified, capable hand, I don't care about anything else. I couldn't even if I wanted to. When I was stationed with the only woman in our department some years ago, my wife set out some pretty strict guidelines she wanted adhered to. Of course, they were all common sense relating to how I dressed (especially at night) and some basic habit changes along those lines. After a while, my wife did take the time to get to know her and she is now a close family friend. It takes an effort on your part (looks like you're making it), on your crew's part and on the part of the girlfriend/wive's. Please don't give up. I've been working with women in the firehouse for 22 years in two states. When you treat people as people and stop labeling or stereotyping, the rest comes together. Hang in there.

Tim Rogers, Lt., NREMT-P
Baytown Fire & Rescue

[Firewoman]

Hi Lynn

It has been very interesting following your forum, and I think we female fire fighters have all been in your shoes. I too have had times when the other FF's spouses gave me a hard time. I have found that having the fire fighters sit down with their wives and discuss the situation goes a long way toward smoothing things out. There are however always going to be wives who think that you are just going to come in and sweep their man off his feet, no matter what you do. These wives are either extremely jealous, or have a good reason to fear you (husband may have strayed in the past). There will be no pleasing some, unless you quit your job. Definitely out of the question!!! It's easy to say, but don't let it bother you. Be yourself, dress, act, and talk like yourself. The only person you hurt by being reserved and qiuet is you! These wives probably work beside men all day at their jobs, there is no difference. If the wives cannot get past the fact that you sleep in the same station, perhaps in the same room as their husbands, invite them to do a shift with you. Then they can see for themselves how things work, what the sleeping arrangements are. This simple gesture may be all it takes to open some eyes. Good luck, be yourself. Some day we will win the battle!

Lt.Sandee Crooks
Halifax Regional Fire & Emergency Service
NS, Canada

[emt_chick]

I understand where you are coming from. I too am the only female on a all male crew. The wives/girlfriends have refered to me as the "fire house slut." I have taken great offense to being called that name. After a while, I have just gotten use to it and begin to ignore it. I love what I do and I just deal with it.

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Sarah

[tigger]

I too, have seen the effects on women in the fire deprtment. I am fortunate in the fact that I don't currently have your problem. The potential is there, due to the fact that I am a Resident (I live at the fire station), but the guys that I work with are either single, or their wives/girlfriends are friends of mine. These guys are my "brothers" (I have a few "sisters" here as well). I have, however, seen this problem in other departments in this area. It can get pretty bad. (But in these specific cases, the girls in question are known for "dating" inside their department). I have a standing rule that I don't get "involved" with anyone inside my department. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a foolproof way of avoiding this situation. I wish you luck! Stay strong! (Bottom line, you are there to do a job, don't kill yourself trying to make someone else happy).
tigger

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Pull to the Right for Sirens & Lights! ;)

[FFCadet16]

I went through something like that. My cadet crew and I are starting to get along better now, but a few months ago one at training towards the end we were doing firefighter rescue well it was my turn at lifting the legs,and of course at that time on of the guys girlfriends decided to come in see what training was like. Well she saw the exercise,and was talking with other guys girlfriends and then they wouldn't talk to me or gave me these dirty looks. I finally decided to talk to them about it. I told them that the only reason I do it is because it is my job. I also said frankly that," I know you don't like it that I work so closly with your boyfriend, but in the crew those guys are my brothers and my friends, and you should know that nothing will ever come about from that relationship. also I don't want there to be any animosity between us. A friendship is all I am asking for." She was a little shocked after I said that but she agreed that she was a little jealous. She said that it would take some getting use to. But at the Department Banquet we sat next to each other and talked about a lot of stuff. I don't like to wear skirts that often so the guys really don't see me in them. Now they act just how they should, and my boyfriend is somewhat friends with some of them so he talks with them and me when we go out.