The "big deal" about women

[prussik745]

Is it just me, or is any other woman tired of people making a big deal about us being in the fire service. It's like they have never seen a woman in bunker gear before. (I guess most haven't). But really, my fire dept. was established almost 100 years ago, and I was the first female to make Engineer or higher, and it's like some great "miracle" had occurred. (Like we can't pump a truck or something). The other thing that makes me laugh is, people will ask me what I do for a living. When I say I am a firefighter, their next question, 9 times out of 10, is "Well, do you fight fire?" DUHHH!!!!!!!!!

[NCRSQ751]

I'm with you, I don't see what the big deal is, but people continue to make it an issue.

Why? Because there are men that don't like women in the fire service (luckily they are becoming a minority) and because there are women out there that don't belong in fire/rescue.

Unfortunately for us there are still those women who think the standards should be lowered or that they deserve special treatment. One of those can ruin for the next 100 that expect to (and can) pull their weight.

There are men out there who don't belong in the job(and they aren't popular either) but you don't hear about them as much - why? I don't know. But a real firefighter/rescue person will tell you they'd rather have a competant person next to them (male or female) than an incompetant one.

After all - isn't the main goal to do the job and be able to go home? Somehow I doubt even the worst chauvanist would give a rat's butt who pulled them out of a fire or confined space as long as they lived to see their next shift.

One day this won't be a topic of discussion, I hope I live to see it!

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Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[N2DFire]

I hope you all don't mind a guy's opinion being posted here, but I have to agree 100% with several points made so far.

1) I agree that gender should be a Non-Issue and one day I'm sure it will be.

2) I agree that it shouldn't matter who your partner(s) is(are) as long as they are qualified for the job at hand.

3) And I think this is my biggest "pet peeve" concerning the Fire Service -
I'm also 100% for EVERYONE pulling their weight (not just women).

I happen to be a smaller guy compaired to most male firefighters, but I do not expect nor do I want any easier treatment because of it. The job will not change for me, so why should anything else ?

As I have said before in other forums to women who are having a tough time in their department - you are always welcome to come run with me.

Take Care - Stay Safe
Stephen

[fireangel_2000]

I agree - I was asked at out Fire Saftey Open House if I was the cleaning lady or the cook? How rude, huh? Just because I have boobs doesn't mean I can't do it as well, if not better than the men.

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-FireAngel

[Fire29_1999]

Hey women, I am all for women in the fire service, in some areas you just can't be picky, and women are joining to get the job done. My dept. is a hundred years old and the first woman joined a couple of years ago and couldn't cut it but she had the balls to admit it some men can't even do that.than we had another join, she went on to better things and we lost a great firefighter now we have one more that has graduated collage with a fire degree and is now taking a paramedic course she will also go on to a paid job someplace I am sure and we will again lose out. so keep up the faith and remember some day it will be commonplace to have women firefighters.
stay safe

[Diane]

I love being asked if I run on the ambulance when I say I belong to a fire dept. We don't even have an ambulance in our dept. Go figure.

[TDFDCaptain#5]

male or female, makes no difference at all!! As long as the job we set out to do gets done and everyone stays safe, the results are the same. I am curious as to how many stations have separate washroom facilities? Ours does, and we STILL don't have any female applicants. Just wondered how many Chiefs were planning when stations were built? BTW, our hall is 7 years old.

[Hammerhead338]

TDFDCaptain5.

Last year the city completley remodled my station, and they redid our sleeping area with the idea that any female firefighters hired will be sationed out of this station. It did bring out some problems with the personal, the bunk room is devided up into 4 bed rooms so that each person on duty would have there own room. Several of the personal asked it the city would put doors on the rooms but they said that they would not. There is 1 bath room in the bunk room and it will be used by both.

Have a good day and be safe.

Joe

[NC]

I agree.

Unfortunately, there are guys who are intimidated by a woman being able to do the same job as them. Think about it, you don't look very macho when there is a woman standing next to you. It doesn't matter that the woman had to work just as hard or harder to get there.

[duerr2]

I'm tired of the morons that are threatened by the education and training that I have...It's really not a lot(in my opinion), but I am FFII/InstructorI certified. The chief can't even claim that! I'm trying to be patient, but truth is, the town I'm in will never change, so I think it's their loss and I'm moving on to bigger and BETTER departments!

[ladyfire]

Yeah, who really cares if u are male or female? i would really want to know that u got my back, not what u have in your suitcase!.....lol lets just worry about keeping each other, and those around us safe!

BE SAFE ALL!

[mrsfirefighter]

I used to get a little bent when people asked me what I did at the fire department because I always look like a lady when not in BDUs. Of course they expected me to be the secretary or work on the bus. But after a while I decided I'm glad they don't look at me and think "you must be a firefighter". I still can't believe that it's Y2K and people are still amazed to see a woman come to their rescue...but, I've never had a complaint about the job I've done!

[Pastor Dawn]

Actually, I enjoy the notoriety. It gives me a chance to tell the public about fire safety issues. Also, when people find out that ordained ministry and firefighting are just two sides of the same coin; they tend to be more open-minded about fire safety and give more accolades to the men and women of the fire service. In reality, most people really have no idea what it is we do. They call 911, the big red truck arrives and all is well. I find that being a woman can be a big help in opening doors for discussion. So I don't mind the fuss one bit.

[fieryred]

I have been working with some old school boys and when it came time to do my 5 month appraisal... Lets just say I changed some minds. Do what you are trained to do... we all wear the same uniform.

You ever see the look on a guys face when you tell them what you do for a living? Definitely a Kodak moment.

Take care and stay safe

[FLAME5]

WELL I THINK WOMEN IN THE FIRE SERVICE IS A GREAT IDEA, BUT AS STATED ABOVE THEY MUST PULL THEIR WEIGHT, AND SOMTIMES OTHERS ASWELL. SOME SHOULD CONSIDER OTHER JOBS!
WE HAVE ONE FEMALE CAREER FIREFIGHTER IN MY HOMETOWN (JUST GOT HIRED IN ANOTHER DEPT.)
UNFORTUNATLY, I AM NOT IMPRESSED AT ALL WITH HER. NOT TO SOUND TO RUDE BUT, I WAS GLAD SHE WAS IN ANOTHER SHIFT.
COULDN'T PULL HOSE, CARRY THE JAWS FOR TO LONG, HER PATIENT TREATMENT WAS NON-EXISTANT
AND ABOVE ALL SHE IS THE HUMAN GOSSIP BOX OF THE DEPT.
I HAVE SEEN OTHERS AT WORK FROM OTHER DEPARTMENT AND I HAVE TO SAY I WISH SOME OF THEM WERE ON MY OLD SHIFT.

THE BIG DEAL ABOUT WOMEN IN THE FIRE SERVICE IS OF COURSE THAT IT IS A JOB THAT WAS DONE BY MEN. EVEN IN THIS TIME AND AGE SOME PEOPLE LOOK TO WOMEN AS BEING WEAK, AND NOW IN THE FIRE SERVICE A MINORITY.

I AM GLAD YOU ALL ARE PROVING THEM WRONG! http://www.firehouse.com/forums/biggrin.gif


[This message has been edited by FLAME5 (edited 01-03-2001).]

[LHVFD]

I am in favor of women in the fire service. I general any of the ladies we have had on our department have pulled there own and there are some additional plus's, You'r a lot better to look at than the guys, You can cook a lot better, you can show a lot more compassion at the scene when needed, and you dont run around belching and farting all the time. More power to you ladies

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Lt. Homer

[FireMed419]

Women on the fire dept. is fine with me,as long as you don't demand everything to change when you get on the job. Women are still new to fire departments. Thats not because you can't do the job it's because it has been all male for 100 + years.
One thing I don't agree with is preference because of gender. The best applicant should be hired regardless of race or sex. People shouldn't be hired in order to make the public happy or simply to meet a quota. If a women gets hired where I work I'll treat her like a firefighter.

[sharal970]

I totally agree with women being involved in the Fire Services, it doesn't matter who covers your back as long as they can do the job! I am a 20f just getting started in the Fire Fighting aspect, although I have been involved with EMS for 2 yrs now. So far my dept. has supported me and my decisions, and hope they continue to do so.

[tracyant]

I love the look on the faces of the crowd when I come out of a building and take off my facepiece. Hey look its a girl!
Having a woman on the department can come in handy to handle some women and children who are frighten by all the men hovering around them at an accident scene.
This is the best profession in the world; man or woman.

[fflynn17]

I really dislike it when the truck pulls up to the scene, and the people all stare at me.
We have a large Hassidic Jewish population, and the men and little boys always stare at me because to them, women are only for making babies. I only hope that some of the little girls see me and possibly realize that they have choices in life, they don't have to be a babymaker.
I don't have a hard time with the guys in my dept. I hope it is because I do my job.

[ladyfirefighter]

Women have a place in the fire service so long as they can do the job. In many ways affirmative action hurt us by giving jobs to women who did not earn them. I firmly believe to be a firefighter we all need to be able to physically do the job. I worked out for months to be able to do the lifting and pulling.

That being said, I have worked with a few guys that had no place being on the job. If they can't pull me out of a burning building (and I am no light weight!) I don't want to go interior with them!

Men and women alike need to realize what this job physically entails.

I do have to say I was never so proud as when I got off the truck at a call one day and a little girl who was standing nearby with her mother pointed at me and said "Look mommy, that fireman is a girl!" It was sooo cute!
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Stay Safe...
Rebecca Richardson FF/EMT
Isles of Capri Fire Rescue
South Florida



[This message has been edited by ladyfirefighter (edited 02-18-2001).]

[Tim Elliott]

On March 19, ICHIEFS is presenting a teleconference about the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT).

In addition to Phoenix Fire Chief Alan Brunacini and the IAFF's assistant to the president for health and safety, Rich Duffy, we have Fairfax County (Virginia) Fire & Rescue Department Technician Jill Young. She's a veteran fire fighter who helped validate the test.

The panelists will talk specifically about CPAT and issues relating to women and minority candidates. There will be live question and answer periods, too.

If you'd like more details, please send e-mail to onscene@aol.com. To register for the teleconference, call KRM Information Services at 800/775-7654 and ask for seminar IFC6155-0. You may register online by going to https://www.krm.com/regonline/ifcvcregs.nsf/ifc6155-0

[Tim Elliott]

On March 19, ICHIEFS is presenting a teleconference about the Candidate Physical Ability Test (CPAT).

In addition to Phoenix Fire Chief Alan Brunacini and the IAFF's assistant to the president for health and safety, Rich Duffy, we have Fairfax County (Virginia) Fire & Rescue Department Technician Jill Young. She's a veteran fire fighter who helped validate the test.

The panelists will talk specifically about CPAT and issues relating to women and minority candidates. There will be live question and answer periods, too.

If you'd like more details, please send e-mail to onscene@aol.com. To register for the teleconference, call KRM Information Services at 800/775-7654 and ask for seminar IFC6155-0. You may register online by going to https://www.krm.com/regonline/ifcvcregs.nsf/ifc6155-0

[cwray85]

My main problem is the fact physical agility tests are altered so that women can pass/participate in them. Its obvious women are not as strong in the upper body as (most) men, but thats no excuse to change the agility test to cater to their needs. Also the best person for the job should be hired, but unfortunately quotas have to be reached and your finding women and men (especially if they are a medic) are being hired in place of well deserving candadites. This is and has been a male dominated field, so trying to change that will never happen. Bottom line is the best person for the job deserves the job regardless of sex or race so let it go.

[cwray85]

Let it be known anything said is strictly my opinion and I only live in Indy, do not work there.

[NCRSQ751]

Cwray, you should have read all the previous posts - not every department does that (my local ones don't) and the women don't want it.

We want the SAME chance as the men and if we can pass the same tests at the same level and do the same job we should have that job.

We all know there are some women who do have the strength, and some men who don't. Every one should be given an EQUAL chance - that's what any woman who is worth a damn (and what any man with an open mind)will tell you.

------------------
Susan Bednar
Forsyth Rescue Squad (Captain)
NCTF-1
Griffith Volunteer FD

[HFXFFF]

Thought you might like to know. In Tacoma Washington the crew at Station 10 is an all female crew. They respond to over 3,000 calls a year. A friend cut the article out for me. It was in Peoples Magazine, November 27, 2000 pages 177-178. I can't imagine the stares they must get.

[HFXFFF]

I too have been mistaken numerous times for a paramedic but that doesn't really bother me. I think it is funny. Paramedics wear all blue clothing and we wear all bright yellow. I can see how confusing it must be.

One day I was stopped from entering a residence after another male firefighter entered with no problems. We were wearing the same clothes. The elderly person put his arm across the door and asked "Where do you think your going?" I said, "I am with the fire department you called for assistance". This person honestly couldn't believed that I was firefighter.

[RJE]

We had 3 females on the dept in 1980. I ran one call for a kitchen fire where I was the only qualled driver, so when we pulled up, one (OIC) pulled a water can and ran to check it out (nothing showing on arrival) while the other two pulled a pre-connect. It was an oven fire, that the OIC put out with the 2.5 gal can. The elderly homeowner was VERY suprised when the other three started taking off masks and packs, and all three had unusually long hair! She had to walk out and get a closer look.

Then she asked me why I got to stand by the truck doing nothing while they did all the work? It took 10 minutes (the OIC did most of the talking) to explain that she was senior to me, and that I was the only one of the 4 to make the station (daytime, everyone's at work you know, but summer and us college kids were home goofing off http://www.firehouse.com/forums/wink.gif) that could drive the truck and run the pump. And of course, that if the fire was too big for the extinguisher, I was going to get a lot busier (if not near as hot) running that pump panel!

[ltchris]

My opinion
I think its great that women are involed in the fire service.
We receaved our first lady in the fire dept. last year.
She is a great person. Also very intersed very easy to get along with.
She left the dept. to go to another dept.
So for all the women good for you if you like firefighting and keep up the good work.

P.S. Stay safe we all care about you!!!!

LTchris

[AlabamaFireWife]

The "big deal" from the community at large is the novelty of the idea, like you are role playing or something. My male friends who chose the nursing profession are having the reverse discrimination.
The "big deal" from the auxillary community is jealousy. There are very few things that MY husband will get out of MY bed for in the middle of the night, fire being one of them. He loves firefighting, and I love it for him. Fire is the only thing in our lives we cannot participate together in. He can only tell me about the experience. IMO the treatment the female firefighter received at the luncheon was wrong and might be stemmed from the jealousy. Not jealousy that her husband might be lost to a female co-worker, but a jealousy that she is experiencing something with him that the wife never will. Funny how that jealousy is not nearly as intense for a shared experience with a male co-worker. Stupid, huh?
IMO, "the big deal" involves MY household, in that any woman or man in my husband's department must be of the physical ability to carry/drag his 200+ lb. self out of any situation, just as your family expects the same of him to assist you.
Our family prays for each of you every day, and we thank God for your dedication and ability to serve us as a community. Thank you.

[smokeyben1]

I am all for women in the job but the one thing that annoys me is the standard of testing when it come's to women. While I was in training at Fire college it was very clear to me that the assessors carrying out the entrance test were allowing lower standards for the female applicants. I saw this first hand as we were used in the tests to set up and assist the applicants. I believe that in this job your partner, workmates should have gone through exactly the same stringent tests as you to get into the service so that when it comes to the crunch you know your in safe handes. Stay safe, Smokey.

These are my opinions and not of my department

[fieryred]

Now hold on there Smokey... being that I am female and in the fire dept I can understand where you are coming from. But not every department does that. You are kinda lumping us all into one category. I to went through a Fire College and was never treated any differently. I was expected to do the same as everyone else, nothing less.

And personally I wouldn't expect the standards to be lowered just because I am female. If I didn't think I was capable to do the job the same as anyone else I would be the first to say so. I am not willing to risk the lives of those around me just because I can't do the job. There is too much to loose in every respect.

Bottom line...if you can pull your weight the same as everyone else, doesn't matter who you are. There is no "I" in teamwork.

take care and stay safe

Red

[eelamb]

I am a very young paid FF/Engineer with a department in Colorado, and I am not the highest ranking female either. The last testing process for our department was the exact same all the way through. There were more males that failed the physical test than females. I think most departments here in the west go out of their way to make everything equal.

I have come to terms with being the minority and having to prove myself constantly. Although it is frustrating to be under constant scrutiny, it does make you a better firefighter. Every now and then I will have some one ask me if I am the cook at the firehouse when I say I am a firefighter or work for the fire department. I have learned to brush it off. When I do get frustrated, the other women in my department get together and help each other out. It is very important to stick together. Hang in there gals and show em!

[Eng522ine]

A story from a guy...

This happened a few years ago when I was going through the local fire academy to get FF1 certified...

We were doing a wet lines drill in the academy's smoke house and the instructor sent me in with a guy from a neighboring department. As we were backing the line out, he in accidentally bumped into me knocking me down the steel stairs and into the basement. Apparently he didn't realize it because he kept right on going out the door. As I sat there with a nicely sprained ankle and a dislocated shoulder, another FF came down the stairs after hearing my PASS go off. The other FF picked me up and helped me out of the building (all the while my low air vibra-lert was going off. Once outside I said "Hey buddy, thanks for the hand! You saved my butt! I owe ya a beer." No sooner did I close my mouth than the other FF turned arround and pulled off HER mask and hood. Ever since then I absolutely LOVE the idea of women in the fire service. And Yes, I did buy her that beer.

Be safe all.

[Althea Forhan]

One department in my area was all female from about 1940 to about 1975 because it was a fishing town and all the guys were out on the boats.So don't give me that "New to the field" excuse. Unfortunatly one of the loal FDs has a captain who won't let women run the agility test. I don't like him much.

Althea

[Engine 101]

Well in my department we have 1 or 2 female Cadets who are auxillary's, A neighboring fd has a couple female FF's one of them is an Engineer, I see no problem with females doing thsi job just as long as they feel there confident enough to do this job, They can do just about anyjob a male can do so what's the big we all share the same goal in this line of work

[summermist21FD]

Is it just me, or is any other woman tired of people making a big deal about us being in the fire service. It's like they have never seen a woman in bunker gear before. (I guess most haven't). But really, my fire dept. was established almost 100 years ago, and I was the first female to make Engineer or higher, and it's like some great "miracle" had occurred. (Like we can't pump a truck or something). The other thing that makes me laugh is, people will ask me what I do for a living. When I say I am a firefighter, their next question, 9 times out of 10, is "Well, do you fight fire?" DUHHH!!!!!!!!!

can't agree with you more on this.
my favorite is when we do the public education stuff.
I actually made a bunch of elementry school kids cry.
i came into the classroom all packed out, and everything.
and when i took off my gear
they all had the face of disbelief and discouragement,
and all said
"i thought there was gonna be a fireman"

[doublej986]

can't agree with you more on this.
my favorite is when we do the public education stuff.
I actually made a bunch of elementry school kids cry.
i came into the classroom all packed out, and everything.
and when i took off my gear
they all had the face of disbelief and discouragement,
and all said
"i thought there was gonna be a fireman"


Im sorry, but when I read this, I had to laugh. Kids can be brutally honest, dont you think?