I need your opinion

[NC]

I am a new female member of the rescue company in a volunteer department, with 6-8 female members and over 100 male members.
I'm willing to work hard but, how do I convince the "neanderthals" that as a woman I can do the job if I'm not even given the opportunity?

NC

[Mr. Freeze]

Have you encountered any problems?

[NCRSQ751]

Make your own opportunity. Go to all the training you can, ask questions, be the first to volunteer for hands on scenarios, READ READ READ. There are a LOT of great books on all kinds of fire/ems/rescue training.

If you wait for someone to hand you an opportunity you may be waiting forever. You have to take the initiative and responsibility for your own fate. Use the other women in the department to support you, get them together to train on off days, help each other.

I've been at it for a long time now and I can't say I never encounter neanderthals anymore, there are some still in my own department - but their attitude is their problem, I don't make it mine. The only person that can hold you back is you - they will begin to respect you when they see you expect no special treatment and you intend to pull your own weight. It takes time, be patient, but aggressive at the same time.

------------------
Susan Bednar
Captain - Forsyth Rescue
North Carolina Strike Force 1

[NC]

The problem I encountered was at a recent training. The officer let someone who missed a class on SCBA go into the building, while I, who attended all the SCBA classes, was left outside to flake hose and hold a ladder.

[lpfd519]

Oh Man, it took me 9 months to get any ground on the dept I am with. Please feel free to e-mail me if you need to talk. If I could be ignored or overlooked when I first got started, believe me, it happened. Just took some getting used to that I was willing to work just as hard and wasn't going to scream harrassment at the first joke I heard or, due to the physical nature of our job, working closely with males.

[BMTFD]

this may sound like a put off but just be patient your time will come.Jump at all oppurtunities that are presented to you-you belong there too.As far as being "Neanderthals" most of the time they are just need time to adjust in some areas this is still new and a fine line at times to be walked.I run on a department of about 40 guys and I am the only certified female firefighter along with 3 very talented female cadets and the guys that I thought didn't accept me when I first joined turned out to be not only co-firefighters but friends too.Just be patient.There's a lot of great guys out there in the fire service you just have to get to know them.

[NC]

It is very hard to be patient, I'm trying. I appreciate your advice, the other woman in my department have not been able to help.

Thanks

[DRA-252]

From a male point of view. (an old guy at that!)

Do the best you can and if unable, ADMIT IT. I can't do everything either.

Try not to take up any "cause" except the fire service. Any Newbie has to prove him or her self and maybe others are waiting to see what happens.

If you do encounter a "neanderthal", so what?
If you are doing the best you can do, its readily apparent to others and you have the satisfaction of knowing you did your best.

Good luck.

[firefighteranne]

I agree--be patient. Also, be enthusiastic at trainings (willing to volunteer, not grumping about any task you have to do, asking questions). When you do get a chance to take part, either thank the training officer later or comment on the good parts of the drill.

[Corvin]

I agree also. Patience and personal effort will prevail. I have supervised many new firefighters and can say pretty well across the board that attitudes towards 'rookies' are driven by the the attitudes of the the 'rookies'. That goes for both male and female.

Again the your time will come when you are ready for it. A chip on the shoulder that demands that your time is now will just invite trouble.

That said, perhaps you have some unique problems in your dept with some specific people. Find the supervisor who is most interested in your success and get his or her opinion. They will best be able to advise you to get back to the books or if the issue needs to move up the command chain.

Good luck with your career

Chris

[duerr2]

I'm currently trying to gain a position on a volunteer department with 1 woman(no help) and a BUNCH of Neanderthals(definitely no help!)...I know what it is like to not have the position, but have the training and the WILLINGNESS to do the job...Stay safe and from another AFFF(awesome female fire fighter)...good luck!

[dtj]

Recognize that men, regardless of how they feel about women in the fire service, are not Neanderthals. Name calling only makes it personal.
In 1978, the USAF allowed female firefighters for the time. I was assigned to one of the "test" sites. It was not a bad thing, but it did require everyone to make adjustments. Bunkrooms, bathrooms, showers, etc. were obvious.
There were other things that were not considered in advance, but had a major impact. The most volatile issue being the feelings of the male firefighters' wives/girlfriends. Some of that could have been a trust issue.
Society has also labelled females as weaker, no mechanical aptitude. You may be very competent, but previous females may have been "failures." Remember, the standards were set before you applied for membership.
Men have been brought up to respect females; no cussing, no risque humor, no scratching, no farting, tear down the pin-up girls, etc. Females in the station may cramp their style.
Officers must make decisions all the time on a fire scene or training class. A one-time incident does not indicate a serious problem to me. If it continues to occur and you never get the chance, then I would say you have a problem.
All the conflict resolution classes I've attended say to start with something the parties have in common. The fire service looks to be the most obvious, but that may not be the case. With 100 members, I would speculate there are a few traditions within the company. Join in on the some their traditions, whatever they are. Is there a weekly card game? recreation night? party? Is there something you excel in that would benefit the company? Do you have any friends that are members of the company? Hang around your supporters. Talk to the leadership. Don't try to outdo anyone. Don't make it a male vs. female battle. Your time will come and I believe you'll shine.
There are several females who have responded and have good ideas. They talk like winners who have suceeded in the same thing you're going through. Good luck NC!

The opinions expressed herein are those of an old narrow-minded male firefighter, who has never been denied access to anything due to gender, except the ladies room, and do not reflect the opinion of any other male firefighter.

[ladyfire]

Hi,NC I know where u are coming from!!!
I am from Fayetteville, NC. Let me tell u, that u are going to come across some good and some bad guys, There are only 2 women in our stations, and about 50 guys. I love my job and try to do my best, when there is a job to be done, Who cares if u are male or female..... we all need to work together! sometimes your ablities will surprise the guys! not downing ya guys :-) hang in there girl friend!!!!!!! ^5


HAVE A SAFE AND HAPPY HOLIDAY!!

[BiancaSancic]

Keep up the good consistent work and they will have to accept you at some time. Don't think it will be overnight. Make your opportunities to prove yourself. In class volunteer. I hate ladders with a passion. My department thinks I love them. I am almost always the first to climb. I have conquered a fear, but need to keep up practice to remember that I have the skill to do it.

I am currently a volunteer who took training with a paid department which has never had a woman. My class had to adjust to the idea of a petite sized woman wanting to keep up with the big dogs. They treated me like a kid sister for a while and admitted after graduation that most gave me three weeks, tops. Somewhere along the way, it dawned on them I wasn't going away.

With their help, I graduated right along with them and we all passed the state certification exam.

Your guys will come around. (most of them) for those that don't, treat them exactly as you do the others. Back them up when they need it, help them when they need it and ask them to teach you a skill when you need it. They will learn to respect you for hard work and honesty, even if they don't like the fact you are a woman in a man's world.

[fieryred]

I have been a fire fighter/emt for 6 months. There are 5 females that work the floor and about 240 other guys.

What I have learned is work hard, train hard, volunteer for everything and don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it. There is no "i" in team. I am a big girl,I stand 5'11 and at least 210. I am not ashamed to ask for help from my guys.

There will come a time when "they" will realize that you can do the same job as they do. We all wear the same uniform...just work hard and it will come.

Cheers
Junior f/f at age of 31

[SteamTrain]

BEER! Neanderthals drink lots of beer. Give them beer, let 'em get a little woozy, and show 'em YOU CAN DO IT when they can't! That'll roll their day boots down!

[Nik]

One of my favorite stories was going to a barn fire, still fresh from the firefighter ABC course. We had arrived halfway into the fire, as we had been at class, but our instructor had invited us to jump the call, since half the class was from the department where the call was.

When we got up there, in full gear, the department was more than happy to get fresh people to work it. I was working a section with some other guys, when an officer came by, shouting instructions and pointing out spots to hit. "Good job, guys," he bellowed, clapping me on the back. "Thanks," I answered. When he heard the female voice, I literally saw him do a double take. But I was proud nevertheless, because I was just another body in turnout gear, doing my job

Nik, P17

[Pastor Dawn]

I read all of the posts and I agree with all of them. Patience and perseverence is the key; but I would like to add a word of caution. Almost twenty years ago now I was the first woman to join the local fire departemnt and the fur flew !!! But.... I made friends with some of the wives who took me under their wings and let me in on a little secret that has served me well throughout the different departments that i have belonged to as well as my pastoral work: NOT EVERYONE IS GOING TO LIKE YOU. If you can get past the fact that no matter what you do or how well you do it, that some people are just not going to like you, you will do fine and you will have a long, successful career in the fire service. The ONLY person you have to answer to is yourself. If you have participated in the training, done your department proud at calls and kept yourself in peak mental and physical shape; then when you look in the mirror every day, you'll have a reason to be proud!! Hang in there and keep your chin up!! Times can get hard but they don't last (although it certainly seems like 100 years at times), find someone to lean on to help you in those dark times and you'll be fine.

Big Hugs,
Dawn

[fireeater650]

the only way to some is that you do have the balls to do the job (i know, i dont mean physically)

[Darylee]

You are a newbie. All newbies must prove themselves. Unfortunately if the newbie is a woman, sometimes she is her own worst enemy.

I've been a professional firefighter for 10 years. I was a volunteer for 5 years. I know from where you are coming.

What I mean that women are sometimes our own worst enemies, is that we are taught from birth that we are to be quiet, and non competitive.
As a newbie, you have to understand one thing You are an outsider. So, how do you become accepted? With a lot of hard work.
First impressions mean a lot. Never go to a station empty handed. Male, or Female, it does not matter. Take ice-cream good stuff. Take it for everything you do as a first. What this does for you is to show the other firefighters that you recognize the traditions of the fire service. Second, it is a not too subtle way to let everyone know you did something for the first time, and that you succeeded in it, and take pride in being part of the crew.
Do what every newbie should do. Get involved in training, pick one or two firefighters who have the knowledge and experience you need to succeed, and stay alive. Ask questions. Be their shadow (as a woman, don't just pick one person, or rumors may start) If you see that they are about to do a job, whether it's mopping the floor in the kitchen, or shoveling crap out a window as a ladder crew, be the first to the mop, or the shovel.
Firefighting is competitive. It is a big family where all the members are working towards a common goal. The competition should never get in the way of the end goal, but as a family, some members are slower at accepting the newest member. Male or Female.
The main reason for this is that the job is extremely dangerous. It's the most dangerous thing anyone could do. Even an austronaut's job is considered safe by the standards. Everyone must prove themselves. Gender has less to do with that than the reality of the job. If a person, again male or female, is of small stature, not only is the job harder, but it is harder to become accepted.
I am fortunate at being a very tall, large, and strong woman. I can work alongside most of the men on the department without any problems, and an perhaps stronger than some of them at times. Mentally and physically.
But even with my experience, education, and training, I must still prove myself. I must keep my nose in the books and work hard to maintain, and increase my skills as a firefighter.

Take a piece of paper. List all your strengths as a person. Use those skills every day, they will become stronger. Don't list your weaknesses. They don't matter. Everyone has weaknesses.

Just be persistent. Don't be a nudge who gets into the way. Be the helper, and get your nose into the fireservice books, magazines, and texts. Make yourself better, and more knowledgeable than any of them. Be a politician. You know you are capable of it. Once you surpass their knowledge base, and training, don't make it an issue, don't tell them they are wrong. Use your skills to show, and help train.

[JohnnyMo]

You are the Newbie and just like any one new You need to prove that You can do the JOB!! Whether you are Female,Male,Young,Old,Black,Wh ite......Etc......... BOTTOM LINE PROVE THAT YOU CAN DO THE JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eelamb]

I am a very young female FF/Engineer with a department in Colorado. Anything is possible with hard work and determination

Everybody has to start somewhere, being a female brings new challenges to the table. The advice that everyone had given you is right on. I attribute my success to the amount of time I have put in. Having put so much time in has made a huge difference in my knowledge gained. The other thing that will help you is being open to CONSTRUCTIVE criticsm. Some might say things just because you are a girl, but listen to everyone else and see what you can do to better your self. Who ever said you and please everyone is absolutely right. Hang in there! Feel free to e-mail me if you like eelamb@hotmail.com.

[Nik]

I hope things are going well for the original poster of this topic... even after a few years (and a few new people joining the department), I still feel new at times.

Ask *lots* of questions and never be afraid to admit you need help. If the firefighter's good, he or she will be certain to help you out.

best of luck to all,
Nik, P16

[Althea Forhan]

Try this:

find a small object that will stand on it's side (matchbook, chunk of post-its,eraser)

kneel in the center of the floor, away from any furniture,etc.

bend down a little and put your right elbow to your right knee with your forearm running along the floor, first finger extended

put the object on its side perpendicular to your finger, put your arms behind your back, and try to knock the object over with your nose(or forehead). Guys can't do it without falling on their faces. Women can. There are a few exceptions, but they are RARE. The reason is that wmen have lower centers of gravity than men. Try it!

Althea

[BonCreChief@Yahoo.com]

Let me as a Chief encourage you. Our department has had female firefighters for 20 years and presently run at about 29% female. They have proven themselves over and over. You never hear that they can't do the job anymore. They are respected as equals not because of the Chief's policies but because they can do the job. In fact my best interior rescue team is commanded by a female. Don't get discouraged and hang in there.

[Jim Wingert]

From another Fire Chief, hang in there and just do the job. If that don't work come and join my district, we don't allow them here. I have women firefighters in my district and they work just as hard and sometimes harder then the male firefighters do, in fact with some male firefighters i would trade four to one anyday.

[Captain54]

NC,
Sorry to hear that the men in your Dept. are so short sighted.My Volunteer Company has 6 women out of a active crew of 25.In my 23 years of service I have run into women that are as good as any man.These women were and are true firefighters!The unfortuneate thing you are battling is that many of the women that came before you(if any),were totally useless.Some were lacking the willingness to learn the skills of the job.Some were not willing to work as hard as the men.And I am sorry to say this,But many were just firehouse sluts with not interest in doing the job.
My advice to you is show a willingness to learn the skills of the job.Be the best you can be.Work hard...just like the men do.
Remember you are trying to become a member of a very tight knit family...this takes time to gain the trust of those whom you will be working with.The guy next to you is counting on you to be there should something go wrong.Likewise he is looking out for you too.
I hope you suceed in getting what you wish and that you have a long a rewarding career.
Be Safe!

[BM0342]

If you have a male in your department like myself, there's your ticket.

I believe in giving everyone the fair chance to prove themself. There are female fire fighters that I would choose not to run with, and then there are the ones that I know can carry their own weight. On the flip side, there are male fire fighters that I would choose not to run with, and then there are the ones that I know can carry their own weight.

The point I want to cover is that I look for a few things when I want anyome to prove something to me. (Keep in mind that I am nobody. I'm just a FF. However, the officers in my company trust my judgement without losing a heartbeat and I am one of few with lots of training and college education almost complete) If I think you have proven yourself, then I push and push until everyone sees it. I look for: (1) genuine interest in becoming better constantly- always making more goals instead of just meeting 1 or two and that's it (2) common sense (3) ability to be taught things (4) able to be critiqued both good and bad (5) don't ever say you know it all or hint that you know what I'm saying all of the time, because if everything were that simple, I could give you a book to read (6) Ask questions (7) learn from others experiences and know what to accept as true and false (8) don't choose sides on anything, remain unbiased, and (9) practices in own time (see next par)

I try to get my guys to open the trucks up and pull the stuff off once in a while and familiarize yourself with it. I can tell you right now that you are no good to me if you know which compartment a tool is in, but you don't know where in the compartment or even how to use it. I see guys that went through fire school, and that's it, and walk and talk like they have walked the walk. Here is an example: I can teach you that the rabbit tool is in compartment 3. I can teach you that it is on the 2 shelf. Knowing that, even if I showed you once, you should be able to pull that tool off one year from now and not have to think twice about using it. I see guys all the time that do that (that's right, the ones that went to just fire school as mentioned above). They don't teach you everything in fire school. A lot of it is on your own. So start now, and your opportunities will come soon. Because when one of the guys is asked to demonstrate a tool and they fumble the ball, you can pick the ball up real quick and run with it.

That's your chance to be bought in. Sometimes it is at the expense of another fire fighter, but that individual should have known how to use the tool if they are going to talk like they have walked the walk.

Word of advice: don't act to overconfident.

Good Luck.


------------------
William McCorkle
CHFD / MLFD
CHEMS / RUEMS

[M1NFD]

I am a career firefighter in Massacusetts. My wife is an EMT/FF on my department. I think some of the other males have tossed out some good points. Do the best you can, thats all anyone will/should ask of anyone. If you cant do something, like the other poster said, ask. Knowing your limitations is a must for ANYONE, gender non specific, and asking for help may get you some scowling, but not nearly as much as overextending yourself. Keep your self esteem, remember, there are dinosaurs out there that wont wear a hood because they need thier ears to feel the heat, if they arent smart enough to make a simple change, and engage thier brains to interperet other senses other than pain from heat then you can immagine how hard it will be for them to let women into thier little boys club lifestyle. NEVER forget that just like any team sport, EVERYONE brings something to the table, some skill or value. Unfortunately some people will never be smart enough to see this, so you might just have to outlive them. Keep the faith and be proud, I know I am proud to serve with the women that I do/have for the last 13 years.
Good luck.

[HFXFFF]

I wouldn't worry about proving anything to anyone but yourself. You can't change people you just have to accept them for who they are. But if you want something bad enough you'll find a way to get it. Don't give up and don't change for anyone. Be true to yourself.

Dréa

[ChiefSteve]

As a training officer and an academy director, I originally was very opposed to women on the job. Fortunately, a motivated young lady changed my mind and forced me to admit I was wrong. Literally, she put alot of the male candidates to shame. Since then, I have trained numerous women firefighters, and have admitted numerous times how wrong I was. Some of the best I have seen have been women. In my own department, I am now grooming one of our women firefighters to become a training instructor...another first for our area. But she has earned the right to be called an instructor, and I'm not about to hold it back from her because of no other reason than gender. She is very good, and very deserving.

My advise to you (and all of your/our sisters is to persevere, and let your actions speak for you. They truly speak louder than words.

Finally, I urge you to ignore the comment someone made on giving them BEER...that is only going to desecrate your name, and that of the fire service.

[Ffr. P.L. Monda]

NC,

You do not have to make a barrier jump. What I mean is you have to prove to whomever that you are a Firefighter. Because Firefighter is a title for people who do the job to the best of there ability. Not a race or sex.

Some people do certain things better than others but when the group comes together to perform tasks, it is the team that performs not the individual.

Ffr. P.L.Monda

[Shatter]

Hi! I am a female firefighter in a paid department with 12 women out of around 450 firefighters. I noticed you refer to your coworkers as "Neanderthals" because their "traditional" view of the fire service does not agree with yours. You have a negative view of them, but expect them to have a positive opinion of you. You are creating a gender issue. I have learned that I can control myself and my actions. I can't "change" someone else. My recommendation is that you focus on being the best firefighter you can be - remain enthusiastic and motivated, ask questions,study books and journals, and maintain your physical fitness. It has been my experience that the men I work with (as well as other women) respect me. My gender is not an issue. The fact that I am female is not ignored, but utilized on calls with female patients, car crashes that require entry into small spaces, etc. I am an equal part of the team. Please enjoy your job, and try to be as open minded as you would like the guys to be.

[MikeHunt]

Im a guy, being a probie was difficult for me also many years ago. The best suggestion is to be a sponge. Listen, learn, and be patient. I know that women have a much harder time than the guys but if you hang in there and do the right thing you will have many good years ahead.

[gostrdr6]

It has been my experience that when there's a job to be done,whether it's racking hose, doing overhaul,streching a line,or anything that doesn't appeal to the female member,other that the routine EMS aspect of the fire service,women "will" find some excuse for not participating.As for being on the front lines..."inside on the nozzel" or as back up to the nozzel,I would NOT trust my life to a WOMAN.I didn't survive 20 years in this job by making rash decisions.Women belong doing what they have always done,EMS,"NOT FIREFIGHTING". Perhaps I'm old fashioned,but I and the men inside who lay their lives on the line every time we go into a working fire want to go home when our tour is over.

[FireOz]

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: FireOz ]

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: FireOz ]

[ 07-14-2001: Message edited by: FireOz ]

[captstanm1]

This is a post I made on this subject in another forum topic. Show them this. Otherwise...just do your job and the neandrthals will eventually go away. It is unfortuante that this occurs...but it does.

I have worked with female career firefighters and volunteer female firefighters. I can honestly say that the majority of them were damned good at what they do. Some were better drivers than the guys I worked with. And there are a few that I can honestly say, I would much rather have backing me up...or back them up than some of the guys. People need to drop the games and treat everyone equal. Male or female the question is....Can you do the job? If you can...then who cares if you are male or female. My girlfriend is a firefighter/Paramedic in Tarpon Springs Florida. I respect her for what she does and how she handles herself. She is competing in the relay portion of the Firefighter Combat Challenge in New Orleans with 4 other firefighters who are darned good and very dedicated. The people she works with respect her and most say..."I want you there, because I know I can count on you!" So...keep hammering away....all of you female firefighters and some day the wall will come down just as the "great Wall" did.

Stay Safe

[joeydfd]

YOU'VE GOT TO STEP UP AT THE MAJOR INCIDENTS TO PROVE TO THE OLD TIMERS THAT YOU CAN DO THE JOB.

[joeydfd]

NC, ONE OF MY LT's IS A WOMAN. SHE IS NOT FEARFUL OF ANY TYPE CALL HOWEVER SHE DOES HAVE PROBLEMS WHEN ISSUING ORDERS TO THE MALE MEMBERS

[duffer]

I have had the pleasure of being involved with the front line supervision of the first two female firefighters in my departments history. The department was forced to lower an incredibley difficult PT standard due to clear adverse imapact. This allowed a deper pool of canidates both male and female and the rest is history. Both firefighters are doing very well, there has been no problems that I am aware of and we are small enough that I would hear if there was. Here are a few tips that I have observed in both female and male firefighters that make a successful rookie phase.
1. Remember you are a rookie, everyone before you has been a rookie, nothing is being asked of you that hasn't been asked of others. Part of it is to observe how you handle stressors around the station, how hard you will work and how much of a team player you are. It normally takes from one to three years to loose "rookie" status.
2.Work hard and keep your mouth shut. Rookies are to be seen and not heard. A running mouth will get a rookie in trouble quicker than anything else. On the other hand, a quiet rookie is often brought into conversations after a period of time.
3. Find projects to do, put out the extra effort. One rookie, who happeneds to be female, gets to work in the morning early to do the station clean up before shift change. The crew wakes up to and comes on duty to a clean station, she is really helping herself. Another rookie, who happends to be male, has to basically be pried up to work, I will get a shot at him soon, more than likely, and him looking forward to the challenge.
3.Learn/Know/Enjoy the job. Be as aggressive as you can within the boundries you are given.Go/Volunteer for schools, classes, ask tenured firefighters for tips and for help when needed. The more you care the more they will care about you.
4.Anything within your span of control do well. Establish a reputation of a hard worker, a compentent firefighter and paramedic, what ever is yours to control, control it, put out a total quality product.
5. Be confident, not ****y, don't have a chip on your shoulder, someone will knock it off.
6. Finally, don't forget that you have been adopted into a family. At anytime you may have to ask someone to risk/give their life for you or you risk/give your life for them.
If you can't faternally love the peole you are around find another line of work, you will never be happy otherwise. The name you gave your male compadres early makes me wonder about your attitude. If you don't like someone or are defensive around someone the same will be reflected to you. The harder any rookie works the sooner they are accepted, male or female, control what you can, and do your best, I am sure that it will work out well for you.
My wife has worked in a male dominated field her whole career glass ceiling and all, I am the father of two daughters, I see my wife, sister, daughters in everyone of you female firefighters, I want you to have the same opportunity I would expect them to be given, which is simply a level playing field nothing more or nothing less. Good luck.

[redmedusa41]

NC I joined the dept. after only three females ever. one went and got married, one went to ff on a gov. instalation. then there have been 2 others, one is still here the other has left. I am now going on my fourth year. I know there were many that would rather not have me there, but I still am. There are many training classes that needed to be attended before you can do interior attacks. I am 5 classes away from my ff2 for North Carolina. I am 5'9" and 140#. and there are some things I just cannot do. You should never be expected to do anything alone. TEAM=together everyone accomplishes more. Train,train, train. You need to know what also goes on outside just as much as what goes on inside> I go to all the classes, regardless if I think I will ever be in a situation to use that training.
If there is something I feel uncomfortatble with I say so. I don't like hights, never would go up on our 85foot ladder truck. We now have a platform ladder, now I have been up in the bucket. But I need to know what goes on up there as well as on the ground.
Anyone can accomplish anything if there heart is in it. I am 38 years old and have 5 kids,work 6p-6a as an EMT for a transport co. Don't be discouraged if everyone does not accept you, if they say anything rash go above them and say nothing. If you really start to have problems seek out another co. that also has females in it. Many of the old timers have a hard time accepting females, but they are a wealth of information. One rule I have always gone by. Don't ever date anyone from work, or any other organization. This sometimes causes alot of problems. AND DON'T GIVE UP. Some say FF is in the blood, I do believe this to be true.

Be good and play safe kids.

[jrfemaleff74]

You don't have to prove anything to anybody. Just do your best and enjoy what you do. Love it. That's the only way to handle it. I've been in the service for almost 2 years now and I still have problems. We have 4 females in our department. We all work hard just as the guys do. Most females who have problems with a few men in the service tend to make it a blanket statement that all of them are like that... they're not. There's always gonna be people who don't like you, and on the other hand, there's always gonna be people you don't like. It's a rough field. Love it, and stay safe. Feel free to e-mail me to talk. (jrfirefighterstation74_2000@y ahoo.com)

[RanboHFD]

When I first got on the job, we took our PAT in the same group as 3 women. The proctor scolded us for routing for one of the girls while she did the hose pull. I didnt think it was cool he scolded us but being a newbie kept shut. Since then in 13 years I have seen the neanderthals rant and rave. usually what changes a dinosaur is when he realizes he couldnt tell "Stem from splitail" with a 1 foot visibility. It doesnt really matter how god equipped ya as long as you can move the hose in the building and get water on the fire....and most importantly "Be on the line...not at the door"
I think everyone should go to academy with at least one or 2 women or really train and maybe ones outlook will change.
Someday these girls will be Lts and Capts....what do the neanderthals do then????

[Firebear230]

I can't offer any magic solution. I started as a volunteer about five years ago and was hired at an agency three years ago. Initially, I was thought of as just another fire fighter groupie. I worked my tail off and proved at every opportunity that I was there to be a fire fighter. No matter what I just kept in mind that people relied on me doing what I was trained to do. It takes time, but, its worth the effort. The "Neanderthals" finally gave me a chance and I never looked back. Now, I have a great career and a lot of good friends. Hang in there, be safe, and give 'em everything you got. Feel free to email if you need to talk.

Stay safe ;)

[pyrolady]

This sounds so familiar. My advice hang in there and givw it time. Not all the guys think that way, work with them and boost your confidence, take it from there.

[188Vollie]

I'd start by showing the males a little respect. Calling them "neanderthals", isn't helping. Be confident, not ****y. Ask lots of questions. Admit it when you need help. They too need help... (confined spaces, compassion, etc.) Acknowledge their years of experience and training. Step up to the plate. Be assertive not pushy. Don't let them get you down. :)

[ems121KVFC]

I am a female firefighter/EMT in a male-dominated department, like all those out there. I started when I was 15. I am now a capt. The biggest thing to remember, is you are a probie. That means that not all the stuff you have to put up with is because you are female. Probies are traditionally given the worst assignments and made to do the most work. That's just how it is. You have to work your way up no matter who you are, male or female. I had a slight advantage when I started out, as I practically grew up in the fire house, so I already knew almost everyone there. But, I also ran into those who felt woman had no place in the fire house. But, you have to prove yourself. It takes a while. Work hard. Train hard. DONT complain when you are asked to do something. Eventually, things will change, and you will be "one of them". Don't be afraid to say you can't do something, but don't ask someone else to do it for you, ask for their HELP to do it. In my few years here, I have created some of the strongest bonds you can have with other people. I now refer to the guys as "my guys". There are always things that a woman is better at than a guy. Once excepted into the group, you will find that the guys will actually seek you out at times for support. After that "bad one" they may find it easier to be emotional with a female than the other guys. (You will be sworn to secrecy, though) Tough it out, it will be worth all the hard work in the end. You have joined a very very tightly knit family...everyone is brother and sister here. Welcome!



"Ever wonder what happened to the girls who ripped the heads off of their Barbies? They became firefighters."

[dareme2]

I have to agree with most of the postings in this thread. But, in my past experience, you have to speak up and let the guys know you want to try things for yourself. After they see you are serious about being in the fire / rescue service and are eager to learn then things will get better. They have probably been around a female before that just wanted in the department to be around a bunch of guys. They learn from that type of experience that there is no use in bothering to waste time trying to teach the females anything. (You can't blame them either) Anyway, once you show your interested in the real meaning of being there then they will lighten up. Until then, speak up!
When I first joined a volunteer department, it was the same way. A bunch of "old heads" that thought the fire department was no place for a lady. Since then, after alot of proving myself, I have became the Deputy Chief of that volunteer department, and got a job at a paid department where I am now up to the rank of Engineer.
Never stop pushing! E-mail me if I can help at all.

[IrishFyrGrl]

I've been reading these posts for quite some time. Everyone is very supportive and helping one another with their department issues. Now I'll let you know my story. I'm a female firefighter for a volunteer department. I'm highly trained and have obtained my CDL for driving. 2 things that are kinda set-backs. 1. I'm the only female 2. I'm only 18. I'm the youngest on the department and shortest too. Being part of a big firefighter family, I've know many of the guys since I was little. Luckilly for me, the guys appriciate me a lot. I've been an explorer for 4 years and that has helped me get into the fire service better. I know from reading the other posts, it's not always this easy. Next fall, I'm going to college to major in fire science and hopefully after that, I'll take the test for the Boston fire department. I know it will soon be a bumpy road, but hopefully I can get support from people like you, fellow firefighters.

FTM-PTB-KTF