"She's a good truck"

[HFXFFF]

Does anyone else think there is a problem when people call every vehicle and piece of equipment a "she"? I didn't know equipment was gender specific. I have never heard anyone call an object or possession a "he". What is being implied? Is a female a possession or an object? A ship is named after "The Queen" in Canada but I have never heard of a fire truck or saw named after anyone. Does this happen in your department? Do you have any explanations why this happens?

Dréa

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[Quint1Medic]

No, there's not a problem.

As far as gender descriptors being assigned to nouns, it's done in just about every language BUT English. I know in German, it's "der" vs. "die", and the little bit of French and Spanish I had also involved learning genders for nouns.

Ships are feminine, they always have been, and it doesn't imply anything. The trend has just extended to other modes of transportation as they've developed. If you really want to get into a pointless, wheel-spinning argument, go ahead and try to change something that's been used by everyone in the English-speaking world for as long as it's existed. Pick your battles wisely.

[NCRSQ751]

I agree with Quint. Pick your battles wisely. It seemed like you had a real problem in your first post, but this heads in another direction.

It's great to be a firefighter and it's great to be female. Women being prevented from doing their job is a real problem. Women being put in danger because of gender bias is a real problem. Women being harrassed and assaulted because of sexism is a real problem. Petty things like calling a fire truck a she is not a problem, let alone a real one.

Be smart about picking your battles and skip these petty ones.

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Susan Bednar
Forsyth Rescue Squad (Captain)
NCTF-1
Griffith Volunteer FD

[This message has been edited by NCRSQ751 (edited 03-13-2001).]

[wrongWAY]

Are the sailors aboard the USS Harry Truman, USS Ruben James, or USS John Kennedy serving on "she" ships?

[eCappy]

Don't get mad with me because I'm only repeating what I heard:

Back in the 50s I worked at my Grandfather's blacksmithing welding business in Hoboken, New Jersey where we made fire escapes for buildings and made custom shipwares for the ocean-going ships that docked along the Hudson River. (Mostly at Piers A,B, and C, the old Holland-America Lines where they filmed "On The Waterfront"). Down the block from the shop was the Dutch Sailors Home which was always filled with old sailors and sea captains. I used to sneak beer (Pabst, Knickerbocker, and Schaefer) cigarettes, and pipe and chewing tobbacco into the home inside old leather map cases.

Naturally I asked them why ships were called "she" and I was told that all ships are expensive to keep, never on time, and that need a firm hand to stay on course and to go where you want them to go ..... just like all the ladies do. Like I said; don't get mad at me, I'm just repeating what I was told.

I've also asked why fire engines have been called "she" and it seems that the overall general opinion is that the term came from all the fancy and very detailed elaborate murals that were painted on the old hand or horse drawn engines, hose carts, and ladder wagons which were very often of 'Lady Liberty' or of 'Lady Justice' both long time symbols of American freedoms.

So to answer the original question; do I think there's a problem when people call every vehicle and piece of equipment a "she" my answer is no. It's just another firefighting tradition; and the 'double males' and 'double females' don't bother me either.

[Quint1Medic]

Originally posted by eCappy:
the 'double males' and 'double females' don't bother me either.



Good one, Cappy!

[RJE]

As an ex-squid, I can authoratively say "yes", even US Navy ships named for famous men are still referred to as "she".

I've heard various theories for the origins, some of which were mentioned by ecappy. Others include being tempermental (or obstinate, or stubborn, etc.) expensive, or whatever.

Basically, anything that is complex (mechanically) will develop a personality. (Ever notice that even two identical vehicles have their own quirks - handle differently, take a different "trick" to get them started, etc.). The more complex, the more personality. The more unique (that's a complement, ladies) the more "personal" the personality becomes. And eventually, those personalities eventually seem to be "feminine" in one way or another.

Here's one for you. My grandfather had a '56 GMC farm truck (two ton) that was balky, cold-blooded, underpowered, hard to start - you get the idea, a rust bucket. He referred to it as "He" (if not "it" or "That g** d***ed... you get the idea http://www.firehouse.com/forums/wink.gif) It was very tempermental! On the other hand, the '53 Ford tractor was a dream. Most dependable piece of equipment he ever owned. It was a "she".

He even named them. The truck was "Bluto" (from Popeye). The tractor was "Rose-Marie".

[dogette]

I've yet to hear anyone in my department refer to any of our fire apparatus as he or she. However a lot of the old timers use the pronoun "she" when talking about the actual fire, or when describing fire behavior. As if the fire itself were female.

It doesn't bother me in the least. I am curious about it, but I'm a rookie and the opportunaty hasn't presented itself yet where I've felt comfortable asking about this. (ie. I know better than to interrupt a good war story!)