FIRE STATION ACCOMODATIONS

[Wildfire]

I am seeking information in regards to fire station accomodations for female firefighters. Any help and guidance would be appreciated. 1. Are there any requirements or recommendations for the bunkroom in the firehouse for a female firefighter? 2. Is a sign that says MALE OCCUPIED OR FEMALE OCCUPIED acceptable for a fire station with a single restroom? 3. Are there any recommendations that would help a new female firefighter adjust to an all male crew and visa versa? Any and all constructive recommendations and replies would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[linzwathill]

as the first and only female in my dept., i would suggest to anyone else in my position to be ready to ask questions and speak up - especially if using a unisex bathroom when the seat is left up! - also take all oportunities for training and show the guys you mean what you do - as far the guys go, they all watch out for me and make sure i know whats going on and what to look for on scene, they have been much more receptive to me joining than i had expected...

[fieryred943]

You could use a folding curtain around her bunk if she will be sleeping in the same room. Some type of moveable wall of some sorts. As far as bathrooms are concerned the vacant/occupied sign usually works well. And if you don't know who's in there you can always knock.

It depends on how comfortable the individual is being in the same room with the guys. Some of the first gals on my department just dove in there and changed infront of the guys. It is not like they were taking it all off but I mean we all know what underwear looks like. Don't know what they did about showers.

As for getting use to working with a bunch of guys. Do what you are trained to do. Sit back for a while and listen to how the guys talk and how they like to be talk to. Work hard, study hard, ask questions, listen to your senior guys(they have the knowledge). I know this will sound kinda harsh but keep your eyes & ears open and your opinions to a minimum for the first little while. (That goes for any new person) When you have worked hard and earned your place with the guys they will let you know. A good rule to follow is "If they are bugging you, it's because they like you" If they aren't you better look at what you are/arenot doing and change it. It makes for a long and miserable career if no one likes you.

And granted not everyone will, just do what you are trained to do. Keep busy, learn, study and you will be fine.

Hope this helps....

<br />Never forget those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. God Bless FDNY

[Wildfire]

Thanks so far for the info. Let me clarify first before any other replies come in. I'm the Chief of the Department which is presently all-male. We have not had a female candidate apply before. We are in the selection process and one of the applicants is female. I am just trying to make sure that we stay within the law and regulations should she get hired. I just want to make sure we have all areas covered as this is new to us and we would like to know how it is done in other departments so we can use their experiences and practices. Thanks.

[fieryred943]

Sorry Chief, I didn't realize who you were until after I sent my email. Don't I feel like a yutz, telling you how things should be done. Whoops!

Most of the halls that we have here have been remodelled with a womens dorm. And depending on whether or not the shift has a female working, there is a vacant/occupied sign on the door.

Again my apologies for stepping over my boundaries. <br /> <img src="biggrin.gif" border="0">

Cheers

[Sparkie911]

Hey Chief,<br />Glad to see you trying to make appropriate accommodations for the potential females coming on board. I spent 2 ½ years at a station with single locker room facilities and I have to say it was the pits for everyone involved!

All new stations are required to have separate facilities built. As for existing facilities such as yours I would place a sliding sign on each door that enters the locker room as well as installing a lock on each door. If you have your locker room and bathroom separated by a door, I would do the same with it. This will allow the guys access to the locker room if the female is using the showers/bathroom, and vise versa.

Typically (in my experience) the guys do not and will not knock on the doors before entering, they just push and go without looking at the signs. They also will not use the locks installed on the doors when they are in there, so once again, the responsibility of knocking on the door remains with the women.

As far as bunkrooms go, I see no reason to place additional barriers around the female firefighters. If partitions are put up, I suggest you put them up for each firefighter in the room; otherwise it is just another barrier between them and us. However along with that, new policy needs to be put in place that when there is a female working on duty EVERYONE will wear shorts and t-shirts as a minimum to sleep in. This is the policy on my department. Granted, it isn’t always followed and I don’t have a problem when a guy doesn’t want to sleep with his shirt on… but I don’t have to worry that I’m gonna wake up to an alarm some morning and catch a guy without his drawers on either. The policy is in place to protect the department as well as all employees.

If you would like to see some of our specific policies in regards to the dress code I would be happy to email the to you. Let me know ok.

Stay Safe!<br />Sparkie

[Sparkie911]

Oh Chief,<br />A good resource for addressing some of your concerns would be an organization called Women in the Fire Service WFS <a href="http://www.wfsi.org/" target="_blank">http://www.wfsi.org/</a><br />The women that run this organization are involved with regulatory agencies dealing with everything from bunker gear, entry level testing, grooming standards, maternity leave, you name it, they can address your questions.

Best wishes, <br />And Chief, know that all of us here in Oklahoma still have you all in our thoughts and prayers.

Sparkie

[Wildfire]

Fieryred: Please don't apologize or feel like a yutz. I asked the questions and maybe I didn't properly introduce myself. PLEASE no bad feelings. OK!! I appreciate the honesty of your reply. It's a new territory for me in the fire station. Out on wildfires, it's quite a bit different and somewhat easier to work these things through.

[Wildfire]

Sparkie: Thank you as well. You've got some good points there that I didn't consider. Especially about the locks and partitions. Yes, if you want to e-mail info to me that would be great. I'd like to see some of the policies. My e-mail addy is: devine_john_30@yahoo.com. Thanks.

[cpr4u]

The locks are pretty well a must. What you do for a woman you must also do for the guys. That is reverse descrimination if you don't. A minimum sleep clothing is a very good guideline. Maybe asking the crew what thier suggestions would be to be open and accepting and what they feel would be appropriate for a new firefighter. Just remember to make it slide both ways!

[Hillcrest379NY]

First off Chief, I appreciate the fact that you're trying to go out of your way to make the transition from an all male department to a Co-Ed one run smoothly. I'm the 2nd girl in my fire dept, but definately the more... feminine one of the two. She just acts differently around the guys than I do. I'm sort of the "girly test subject" if you will. It's been challenging, but I'm becoming more like "one of the guys" every day. We're a volunteer dept, so we have no bunks, but that never stops us from sleeping there or practically moving in for days at a time. I get treated just like any other Probie does by most of the members. There's 3 ways to act around a new female in the firehouse. 1) Act like a totally old fashioned tough guy who doesnt think there should be any girls in the firehouse. Period. (Bad choice obviously) 2) Treat the girl as if she were made of glass. Ask if she wants help with every little thing (stuff you wouldn't ask the normal guy) and treat her like a princess. (Just as bad as number one). 3) Treat her EXACTLY THE SAME AS ANYBODY ELSE, no favortism, no hatred, no special treatment (like walls or partitions...) And THAT is how it's supposed to be done, from my experience.

[Lt Cindy Murphy]

Chief,<br />I applaud you for your efforts to reach out and ask. I am the first and still the only female on a 42 member dept. When I first came on I was assigned to the central station. The building had separate bathrooms for females and males- but all the showers were in the female restroom. If I was showering- the guys had to wait- and vice vers. The bunk room was and still is one large room with six single bunks- no dividers. We are all assigned sleep wear- tshirts and shorts. There were already so many ways I was trying to fit in, so in many ways it was a blessing that I wasn't segregated out, but some women prefer the privacy of segregated beds. Some of the wives had some initial problems, but they soon learned, I wasn't out to take their husbands. The bathrooms were equipt with locks so that when I needed to shower or go to the bathroom without fear of a male coworker too lazy to walk to the other side of the room (which still happens).<br />When I came off probation I was moved into a substation. These stations are 2 person quarters. One single restroom equipt with a lock. It was easy to work out showering since there was just two of us. One bunk room with 2 single beds. In the begining the Chief was quite hesitant to send me out for fear of trouble- I let him know that to not send me out would be treating me different, which would continue my isolation. He finally did the right thing and for almost nine years it has worked out. Last year I was promoted to Lt which moved me back to the Central station permanently. They finally put in a single shower in the mens room for me. I know sounds screwy. Men showering in the ladies room and a female showering in the mens room? Go figure. Eventually there are plans to switch the two bathrooms but the current ladies room has only one toilet. The mens room is equipt with 2 to be able to accomidate more than one- (a bonding experience I guess) Just kidding. I think your on the right track. I would be glad to help with any more questions you might have.<br />Lt Cindy Murphy

[phxfire]

Chief,

You should read the article "Female KC Firefighter Awarded $285K in Suit". The suit delt with some of the issues you are concerned about. I would also like to recommend a book I recently read entitled "Real Heat: Gender and Race in the Urban Fire Service" by Carol Chetkovich. Its a very interesting read about the cultural and social background differences between males, females and minorities. It also describes their feeling about the hiring process, who makes a good firefighter, and their experiences as a recruit/probationary firefighter with the Oakland Fire Department.

I'd also recommend a look at a PBS website called "Test of Courage: The Making of a Firefighter". Some good information there as well.

As for separate accomodations for males and females, its just the right thing to do. My department made a priority out of providing proper attire and accomodations to the women. It took awhile (big job) but, again, it was the right thing to do.

<a href="http://www.pbs.org/itvs/testofcourage/index.html" target="_blank">Test of Courage</a>

[ 01-13-2002: Message edited by: phxfyr ]</p>

[Support 4]

Chief, Welcome to the year 2002, i have read most of the reply's, i am amazed that people are still living so far in the past like this is a new issue<br />my department is 265 strong, 10 stations, 65 pieces of career rolling stock we currently have more than a quarter of our staff are females, several are Lt's we only have two stations where the females have been housed seperate and only that each bunk is it's own cubical however all ff even though seperate are in the same dorm, we do have seperate bathrooms and showers for the ladies the remainder of the stations are general dorms and all FF male and female sleep together seperate bunks of course...LOL we do have sleeping attire policy and all FF are required to wear shorts and tshirts or jump suits. We have never had a problem with these arrangements in the 15 years i have been with the department, it really comes down to the maturity of the staff that your department hires, unfortuneatly we live in a litigeous society and there are those out there that will cause havoc just becouse it's something to bitch about male or female. if its not sex its race if not race, it's religion. Best of luck in your persuit for equality in your department

[NFfireman23]

I am an EMT with a private EMS. The women have separate showers but the dorm is one big room. There are partitions available if anyone desires. We have no dress code for sleeping. (most of us are smart and considerate enough not to sleep nekkid!!)

The volly FD that I am on no longer has any women FF's. The last one retired last year. We havent hired since

[Smokey07]

well we have a number of Female firefighters in the Melbourne fire brigade and they have to sleep in the same dorm as the men, each dorm has a partition between the beds and some stations only have 2 beds per room so some priviacy is still available. Most of the stations have a unisex bathroom and toilets, all have lockable doors to the showers and toilets but they are all in the same room. So far we have had very few problems. Our brigade consistes of 48 permenently staffed stations af various sizes and no Volunteers.

Enjoy.

Rob

[shevais]

our combo dept the day shift only is on duty from 0700-1700 each day. however we have sleeping quarters in the form of beds that fold down from the wall in our training room at our Station 1. We have had women on the dept for most of our history, and that I know of no problems have arisen. Now we have 5 females on our dept and during the last big snow we had 2-3 on staff with us during the 2 day event. Our Station has seperate bathrooms with showers in each, so no problem there, as for sleeping, in our SOG's it states T-shirt and SHORTS (no boxers) as a minimum. This is pretty common sense really. One of the females slept in the bunk room with 3 other males, while the others slept in the day room on a fold out sofa-bed. There were no problems and the maturity level was at an all time high.

Our other station though has seperate bathrooms, but the only shower is in the men's room. It's simple though, there's a lock on the door, and most people who shower lock it anyways.

We hold our females to the exact same standard as the male firefighters. After all with all that gear on you can't tell who is who on a fireground, therefore the expectations are equal.

All in all most of our experiences have been positive, and no major complaints that I know of have been brought forward

[ember]

Hello . I am a member of a department which has fifteen stations and around 325 paid fire/emts and fire/medics. Only two of our stations have separate bathroom facilities for the females, and all of them have shared sleeping quarters. I can't speak for the other females, but I really have never had a problem with this. The guys that I work with have been very understanding as far as restroom usage goes. I try to lock the door when I am in there, and they do the same. It's my own personal opinion that we are entering a career which, until recently, has been dominated by men. There are going to be things that cause problems, but we have to be willing for change to happen gradually, not expect it to happen overnight. I can say that in the past few years my department has already started adjusting to females in a big way. The first pregnant female on our department was seven years ago, and she was fired when she told them she was pregnant. Five months and a federal lawsuit later, she was rehired but made to stay on active duty until she delivered. Today, the pregnant firefighters on our department are given a choice of staying on line until they or their doctors feel it's unsafe, or going on light duty at full pay and benefits whenever they request. This isn't done because they feel they have to, but because the additude has changed that much. Given time, I feel that there will be seperate bathroom facilities at each station, until then, to me, it's a minor inconvenience to put up with. The men and women I work with make it just that.

[captstanm1]

Chief,

As a career firefighter for over 20 years and a volunteer for 30 I can say that I am glad you are thinking ahead. Typically (as you know) we in the fire service community are reactive as opposed to proactive. So...dont give up....

My career department was a combination one and we only worked days. The volunteers handled the other shifts including weekends and holidays. In most cases, the stations (16 of them at my time there) had seperate female and male bunk rooms as well as showers. but they transitioned into that during remodeling and upgrades.

My volunteer station in Virginia (28 yrs there) had one bunk room and for the longest time we had no females. When we did get one she chose not to sleep in the bunk room but in the day room on the couch. This was her choice. They still have only one bunk room and everyone sleeps in it. There are no barriers, but there is a seperate womans shower. In fact, the bunk room actually has bunk beds in it.

A second career with the federal govt (short lived thanks to Wild Bill Clinton's base closings) was a bit different. We had several showers but only one of them was near where the females slept and althought it was co-ed, the female firefighters had priority. EAch shift had a female and in the "projects" (or affectionate name for the maze of trailers that served as bunk rooms) there was 1 "room" constructed with 2x4s and panelling and a door included that locked and this was where one female bunked. The other "room" in the projects was next to the well built one and used one wall from the other "room" and the back wall of the trailer. The 3rd wall was configured with 2 double wide lockers side by side that did not go to the ceiling and the open area was framed out with wood and drywall. The front wall was made of movable office furniture that had a locking door. The other female stayed in this room. They were the only ones in the "projects" that got private rooms with the exception of the Shift Captain and the Chief of course. All the other firefighters shared area and beds. It worked out well and was not bad accomodations for using a "double wide."

I am in florida now and the department I volunteer in has one bunk room and 4 beds. It is Co-ed as is the bathroom. I suspect that will change soon as we are being absorbed by a county system.

My girlfriend is a firefighter/medic in Pinellas County Florida. Her department has two stations and the bunk rooms are CO-ed. The older station used double wide lockers as partitions, but the partitions are around eveyone's bed, not just the female. Most of them sleep in shorts and my girlfriend(by choice since she is not a good night person) sleeps in her jumpsuit, but has it around her waist and is wearing a T-shirt, so all she has to do is pull it over her shoulders at night. In their newer station, each firefighter has a cubicle and the cubicle is shared by the 3 shifts. There are lockers and drawers for personal storage as well as an area for a personal TV and most of the cubicles have a place for a phone. There are NO doors on the cubicles and each has its own lighting. The walls are made out of 2x4 and drywall and go to the ceiling. Just a small room without a door. There is a designated female bathroom and shower and all the remainder of the bathrooms are co-ed.

I applaud you for thinking ahead. Nothing better than having a plan in place.

[firewmn1381]

Dang! All the City did for me was put a lock on the bunker room bathroom door. We all sleep in an open dorm.

[wyldefire]

Hey Chief
Just wanted to put in my two cents. I am a volunteer firefighter in Maryland. My company has three stations. One Fire only station, one Ems only station and one combination department.
The Ems only and combination stations is pretty well diversified, my station, the fire only one, has about 110 men and 3 women. I however am the only black woman there. When I came in I got a lot of flack, stares and stupid comments. Then I showed them I was a hard worker, that I was a quick learner, strong, tough and most importantly that I would not quit. Giving up is not an option.
The fire only station has seperate bunkrooms. The womens bunkroom has a dual purpose of sorts. when we stay overnight in the station we get the bunkroom of course and when we are not there, it doubles as a drivers bunkroom. The room has two beds, no partians and a bathroom with shower. The men have about 10 beds, I believe, and they have a separate shower room. The other two stations have co ed bunk rooms.
All in all it seems to work out fine. Everyone generally gets along and respects each other.

[ptfd]

I interviewed for a dept. once where I would be the first female there. In the interview they asked what I expected them to do to make the station "female friendly". I didnt answer much. But they also asked about kids, age, spouse, child care, etc. so I knew they did not want me anyway. Needless to say, I am not working there. However, asking the female (in a non job threatening way) is not a bad way to go. I am currently the only female on my shift. I happen to have my own quarters at my station, new renovations, but I do not care too much. I will not change in front of the guys, but they all sleep in their boxers, I sleep in clothes(I am new, dont want to be late for a call :) ), but it is really just prefrence. Before female locker rooms, we just had a lock on the door and females locked it when they went in. When I wash toliets I knock. The guys pretty much leave my locker room alone, I wash it when it is dirty. But ask her, let her know you want it to be friendly for her and she is more likely to come to you if she does run into unforseen problems. The less change she brings onto the dept. the better acceptance she will get. If you start making guys sleep in certian "outfits", it will just be another reason for some guys why women should not be there. Communication is really the key. Is there a guest bathroom that she could normally use for a bathroom instead of using the guys? Let her know you are trying to accomidate her and things will go much more smoothly. Good Luck.

Own quarters meaning locker room, not bunk room.

[pumpergirl]

This whole debate about where we should sleep, what we should wear, and where we should go to the bathroom is really a non-issue! We are in the station to do a job. When the bell goes off in the middle of the night I can't believe anyone actually thinks to check out the rest of the crew to see what kind of skivvies they are all wearing :eek:

I work in a department with approx 900 full time firefighters and only 4 of those are women, me included. If they told me I could not sleep in the dorm with the rest of the team, then I would think discrimination. I wouldn't want to miss out on the after fire chats, or waiting in bed for the unsuspecting rookie to come upstairs to find the crackers in his sheets!

We are there to do a job, and sometimes gender related issues will arise and must be dealt with, but lets not flog this one to death. Treat everyone as equals, and get the job done.

:)