emerg. lights and/or sirens on POV's

[fireslayer75]

I want to know why most states tell volunteer firefighters that they can not run emerg. equipment on pov's when the insurance is not paid by the state to begin with? Liability is one thing, saving someone's life is totally different. I'm sure politicians would change their tune if their house was burning down and fd showed up late cause they couldn't get through traffic like they need too.

[J.E.Beall]

I've volunteered in a few states, in Virginia it's two red lights steady burning or flashing. In Colorado however Vol's could run full light bars (red, wht, blu lites) and sirens. This I thought was a bit much, after sitting at a busy four lane intersection watching a engine responding east bound w/ full lights & sirens, and a volunteer responding north bound approaching the same intersection in his Oldsmoblie w/ light's & siren going it was obvious the drivers approaching or stopped at the intersection were focused on the east bound engine. Once the engine passed drivers then attempted to proceed through the intersection only to be suprised by Johnny on the spot in his Oldsmobile blasting for the road. Take Illinois, would you pull over for someone behind you with "green" flashing lights? How about NJ, PA, NY of CT where blue lights are for vol's. Yes I do agree vol's should have the right to run warning lights, but their should be a standard nation wide.

[WFD56]

I am on a small volunteer dept and we are PROHIBITED from running any emergency lights, we are allowed to use our 4-way hazards. We are one of 2 depts in the county (out of 9) not allowed red rotating beacon lights. Personally in my short 2 years I have had only a few motorists yield for me, most seem to slow down and look at me through the rearview mirror. And my point is MINUTES EVEN SECONDS COUNT... I believe that warning lights are adventageous and should be implemented.

I would also agree to a standard, there shouldn't be anything wrong with red/white?

[RJE]

Oklahoma does not allow any lights at all.

[APG1]

Actually, Illinois doesn't use green for POV lights. (Indiana does).

In Illinois, if you have green rotating/flashing lights, you better be a school bus. http://www.firehouse.com/forums/smile.gif

HB0161, US Senate, passed the house. LIGHTS AND SIRENS BAAAAAABY!!!!

[J.E.Beall]

APG1
I stand corrected. Green lights on a school bus??????

[MVFD5441]

I'm new to the game and when I asked about lights and sirens on POV I was told that any one,except Cadets, could use lights and sirens, but civilians do not have to yield since we are not "emergency vehicles" and that the D.P.S.(TX Highway Patrol) frown at the use of blue foward facing lights. So it's red for me.

Stay safe,

[Smoke_N_Flames]

Seems to me Texas is the most "lax", when it somes to lights on POV's. Hey, we still have red/blue bubblegums on two of our trucks. Personally, I support having lights on POV's, when I am parked at a scene, I want to be SEEN. MVFD, you arent anywhere in Palo Pinto or parker county are you? (email me if you are)

Thx yall, be safe

BTW, I dont really care what color anyone uses as long as they are safe and dont pull people over for the fun of it.

[NEWT1670]

Does any one know if Wig Wags (alternating headlights) are legal in New York State for volunteers on POV's when used WITH a blue light? Let me know...thanks.

[scottieschmidt]

firehouse.com ever think about doing a survery with state and stations as to what is allowed and isnt?

[Westlake23]

I do know that in Texas, most people will only look at you, if your enroute to a scene, with anything but Red. I know of a couple of departments close by, who use all sorts of colors in their POV lights. Green & purple being the only addition to the red/clear/yellow/blue combination in a full sized lightbar. With that many colors, who really knows what they are.

Besides from what I've heard Purple is supposed to be reserved for Funeral Processions.

I do have a set of Red/blue alternating flashers mounted in my grille, but they aren't really readily seen, and if anyone says anything about them, I'll just change out one of the lenses if needed.


[This message has been edited by Westlake23 (edited 05-14-2001).]

[ffemt81]

Originally posted by fireslayer75:
I want to know why most states tell volunteer firefighters that they can not run emerg. equipment on pov's when the insurance is not paid by the state to begin with? Liability is one thing, saving someone's life is totally different. I'm sure politicians would change their tune if their house was burning down and fd showed up late cause they couldn't get through traffic like they need too.

[ffemt81]

ON my dept. there is no rule on how many light you can have. us young guys are always competing to see who can be the brigntest, but the fun and games end when the tones drop. in my opinion the more lights, the more visible you are which = saftey. ??? Maybe thats why the apparatus have so many lights????????

[firemedic1979]

I've whatched this type of thread before and always bit my tongue.

Minutes ever Seconds COunt was one quote. Do the math on speed. Figure how many miles you travel to a station, then figure out what the difference in time will be at 30, 40, 50 and 60mph. Not much of a difference in time unless you have to travel 20 miles.

Don't know what it's like where you all are from, I log easily >100 miles of emergency driving a week. That's with lights, siren and the works and I tell ya, drivers don't yeild.

Responsible driving in the safest and easiest way to get to the station or scene, and with or without lights on the POV, you wont be changing the time significantly enough.

[Colin S]

Vermont allows red lights and sirens on POV. Most departments require that you finish your probationary period before being allowed to use them. There is no limit on how much you can get any thing from lightbars to a tear-drop on the dash.

[BonCreChief@Yahoo.com]

I really don't know about New Mexico but I can tell you that in LA if a volunteer has an accident running emergency lights the Chief and the department's insurance company can be held liable. A POV running code is considered an extension of the department and must be covered by department insurance. It is not worth the endangering of the general public for one firefighter to reach the scene 30 seconds faster.

[This message has been edited by BonCreChief@Yahoo.com (edited 05-23-2001).]

[391HD]

Warning lights and sirens should be reserved for the bonafide emergency vehicles, ie, fire trucks, ambulances, police cruisers. It's just plain confusing to the motoring public to have dozens of POV's, all different shapes and sizes, displaying each a different warning signal, responding through town when an alarm comes in. Add to that the few throttle jockies in that group, and the liability far outweighs the benefit.

Think about, how many true life threatening emergencies did you respond to in the last year? Light and siren use has never been proven to have made a positive influence in the outcome of these tragedies, which make up only a small portion of the total response volume.

This subject is and always has been, an emotional one.
Statements like, "if it were your house," or "IF your family was in danger," are typically used to defend its use, rather than factual evidence. Because, the facts will show that the use of lights and sirens on POV's has no benefit to the final outcome of a life threatening situation.

[M1NFD]

I am from Massachusetts. We are allowed whatever lights we choose but no siren. I disagree with the last post about it confusing people with different makes and types of vehicles with lights. Lights are lights, our law says pull to the right and stop, not evaluate what make and model vehicle it is, determine what agency it represents and act accordingly. I am a proponent for everyone with an emergency vehicle having the same colored light for that reason. If it is an emergency vehicle then who/what it is shouldnt matter. I know in Mass fire is red and pd is blue, and in NY this is opposite, and the NY state police have harrassed Mass fire vehicles responding in NY. To me this is really petty(dont know if it is still happening). We are all accountable for our actions regardless of lights or not. If someone drives like a whacker responding, they will do so with or without lights and quite frankly where our system allows for some scene response in POVs I feel a lot more comfortable being visible

[PVVFD2495]

Originally posted by NEWT1670:
Does any one know if Wig Wags (alternating headlights) are legal in New York State for volunteers on POV's when used WITH a blue light? Let me know...thanks.

The Flashing of headlights are illegal in NYS. You are allowed one blue flashing light no greater than 32 candle power.

[CAPTAINKAOS]

New York States law makes every light sold on the market illegal, good thing the cops don't pay any attention.

[NYSmokey]

Our department only allows chiefs to run red lights and sirens. Firefighters can have blue lights. Some guys waste their money on full light bars for the short drive to the station. Others buy a single light and get the same results.

I have to agree with previous posts. In our area if you had 15-20 emergency vehicles going towards the area it would get confusing to motorists.

CONFUSION + UNEDUCATED PUBLIC = ACCIDENTS

We still continue to have numerous line of duty deaths related to responding to the fire station. Giving every one a red light and siren would be a step in the wrong direction.

Just my two cents.

Stay safe out there!

[cmjones]

In South Carolina, the law is..

SECTION 56-5-170. Authorized emergency vehicles.


Fire department vehicles, police vehicles, ambulances and rescue squad vehicles which are publicly owned, other emergency vehicles designated by the Department or the chief of police of a municipality, and public and private vehicles while transporting individuals actually engaged in emergency activities because of the membership of one or more occupants of a fire department, police department or rescue squad are "authorized emergency vehicles".

SECTION 56-5-760. Operation of authorized emergency vehicles.

(A) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle, when responding to an emergency call or when in the pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law or when responding to but not upon returning from a fire alarm, may exercise the privileges set forth in this section, but subject to the conditions of this section.

(B) The driver of an authorized emergency vehicle may:

(1) park or stand, notwithstanding any other provision of this chapter;

(2) proceed past a red or stop signal or stop sign but only after slowing down as may be necessary for safe operation;

(3) exceed the maximum speed limit if he does not endanger life or property;

(4) disregard regulations governing direction of movement or turning in specified directions.

(C) The exemptions in this section granted to an authorized emergency vehicle apply only when the vehicle is making use of an audible signal meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4970 and visual signals meeting the requirements of Section 56-5-4700 of this chapter

SECTION 56-5-4970. Sirens, whistle or bell on authorized emergency vehicles.

Any authorized emergency vehicle may be equipped with a siren, whistle or bell capable of emitting sound audible under normal conditions from a distance of not less than five hundred feet and of a type approved by the Department, but such siren shall not be used except when such vehicle is operated in response to an emergency call or in the immediate pursuit of an actual or suspected violator of the law, in which latter event the driver of such vehicle shall sound such siren when necessary to warn pedestrians and other drivers of the approach thereof.

SECTION 56-5-4700. Audible signal devices and signal lamps for authorized emergency vehicles, school buses and police vehicles; restrictions on use; effect of use.

(a) Every authorized emergency vehicle shall, in addition to any other equipment and distinctive markings required by this chapter, be equipped with a siren, exhaust whistle or bell capable of giving an audible signal.

(b) Every school bus and every authorized emergency vehicle shall, in addition to any other equipment and distinctive markings required by this chapter, be equipped with signal lamps mounted as high and as widely spaced laterally as practicable, which shall be capable of displaying to the front two alternately flashing red lights located at the same level and to the rear two alternately flashing red lights located at the same level, and these lights shall have sufficient intensity to be visible at five hundred feet in normal sunlight. Provided, that vehicles of any fire department or funeral home when equipped with a mounted, oscillating, rotating or flashing red light, visible in all directions for a distance of five hundred feet in normal sunlight, shall not be required to have additional signal lamps.

[COFire]

Colorado state law reads to the effect that any volunteer ff may install any combination of red or red/clear to be visible 360 degrees of vehicle, preferable mounted to the higest point on vehicle, may use any combination of bells, horns, whistles. colorado state patrol rarely enforces pov lights unless you are running w/ blue. Most departments/cities/towns state what they will allow, some still allow dash lights.
There is a fairly new registration process, where a pov can be registered as an official emergency vehicle by the state, this is voluntary, and requires you to list ALL emergency equipment installed including lense colors and siren wattage. Registration must be approved and signed by the police chief and fire chief of jurisdiction, and lists reccomendations on daytime and nightime visibilty at certain distances. again, all of this is dependant on location within the state, otherwise, we can use wig-wags, grille lights, rear flashers, full size lightbars, whatever we decide to inconvenience our alternators with. If you ever drive through our state, it's pretty easy to notice the area trends. Colorado police, ambulance, and fire trucks can use ANY combination of red, clear, blue, & amber it again depends on where in the state you are.

Many departments are now requiring vollies register pov with the state, i have seen quite a few cases where a civilian was ticketed for failure to yield to an emergency vehicle, because the pov was registered.

some of the above info may have changed, if so, please let me know.

[killian418]

In regards to NY. No clear lights may flash. well only if you are a Chief. The law states, 1 single non -breaking beam, 35 candle watts, rotating 360 degrees.

Hope this helps,

Jason Geary
Maplewood Vol. FD
Town of Colonie, NY
NYRRT-1

[Chieflittlehair]

Not to be a devils advocate but In NY blue lights are little help in getting thru traffic then it can only be 32 candle power (?). Not very darn bright. Blue is only ASKING for peolple to move over. I ran one your a few years and found it was less stressful for me NOT to run it thru the city.You would have to follow the same V&T laws as everone else. So I stopped running it. WHen I became a chief offcer than changed. Yes I would run red / siren for a big call ( mva-structure fire ...) but not generaly EMS. The embulance and FR unit would already be on scene.

As to lights / siren on POV. Except for CHIEF officer NO. to big of a liabily issue.

[EFDems841]

M1NFD,
I'm right on the NY&CT borders in MA. The petty crap is still going on between NY and MA. More so NY FF's comming into MA running blues. MSP's have a field day. the locals are usually pretty cool about it as long as you're being reasonable. We have a mutual aid agreement with a few depts in NY and we've never had a problem going into NY with reds.

[MikeF25]

Being from Illinois I say this. Some Depts. use blue lights, some use green. I can only use my lights in my city no other. Sirens are not allowed, and for good reason.
You never know anymore what is a cop car and what is not. I think for some people lights and sirens on there cars would turn into an "abuse of Power" if you will.In my city the people are pretty good about yielding to the blue light but it is not mandatory. But, let's face it everyone has people that aren't qualified to ride a bike, much less run lights and sirens on a car.

The possiblility for car fires does increase though :D , upsides and downsides

[tom420]

I'm a vol on long island, ny. The chiefs are real strict when it comes to responding to calls. If your caught blowing red traffic lights in an unsafe manner you'll get suspended days. Its also a real embarassment if your involved in an accident responding to a call, and its happened a few times. I almost got blasted broadside by an over-zealous engine company going to a food on the stove call. ( and i had the green light ). In NY you're allowed one blue light,( police dept run red lights ), but people like to be unique, and spend way too much money on their lights. The going phrase is, " bigger the lights bigger the D***".. get it ? This dept. is also in a 3 mile long town, so whats the point sometimes, we only get like 1,000 calls a year. I like the idea of the police giving tickets to people who dont yeild.

[jims49009]

Michigan has always allowed volunteers to operate lights and sirens for as long as I've been in the fire service.

Our dept adopted a policy a couple of years ago that limits when our personnel can use their lights and sirens during an emergency reponse.

The only time that we can use our lights and sirens is on confirmed structure fires, medical calls and personal injury accidents. This policy has worked very well for our dept and has not effected our response by our personnel in their own vehicles.

Our department provides aggressive EMS and progressive fire protection within a 36 sq mile area with 35 part-paid firefighters in which we will surpass 1400 calls this year.

As of right know, we only have 5 personnel who even have lights and siren on our personal vehicles. I am the only officer on the department that uses lights and siren.

We respond non-emergency to the following calls within our township or to another department; fire alarms, dumpster fires, hazardous conditions and initial aid-fire alarms.

Our population is around 17,000 with a mix of light industrial and commercial, many apartment complex's, nursing homes, manufactured home communities, auto dealerships, 2 home improvement stores, 2 medium sized malls, many housing plats, etc.,

Since I have been with the department, we have seen many changes within the fire service and how we respond to an emergency is just one of the many changes that we have implented to make sure that our firefighters are safe. Liability is a big issue in today's fire service and we have taken steps to prevent such an occurrence.

Many of you may not agree with the way we respond in our POV's but it works for us and it also reduces the possiblity of our personnel getting into an accident on the way to an alarm.

[ptemplin]

The math on "minutes, even seconds count" might not normally come out too impressive, unless you run with the Windcrest FD. The city of Windcrest, TX is almost entirely 20 mph, and most residents stick to 20. Our PD does issue (some) tickets for doing 21. So my 1.5 mile trek to the station can be completed in 4.5 minutes at 20 mph, or 2.25 minutes at 40 mph (unfortunately, we don't have much of a SOP regarding POV response, but it's generally felt no more than 20 over the posted speed). On an open road with room to maneuver, 25-30 over does feel reasonable to me in good weather, etc. To us, that can make a huge difference.

However, our chief frowns/forbids the use of lightbars (this again isn't in writing). I don't feel that the department-issued kojack light is nearly enough. Is there much history of incidents involving responding vehicles where the lack of warning "power" was determined to be a deciding factor?

[MannyEMT5812]

In NJ we are allowed to use blue lights. I use a single Dashmaster Strobe light on my vehicle. It really does the trick! Wig - wags would be helpful but I believe they are not allowed in New Jersey on POV'S.I believe one light is enough. You donot need a mobile Christmas tree on the road! This is only my opinion! :rolleyes:

[rfcmitch]

Well in new york we use blue lights except chiefs, which use red lights and can have wig wags if they want. But only a chief can have wig wags, don't argue, its the law set by federal regulations. Souly cause wig wags mock police lights and they feel as they can be abused. And I hope you realize that as of january 2002 you will be pulled over if you have more than one light on your pov, you are going to be facing a fine, this does not vary by state, its a federal regulation.

[APG1]

Uh, you mean, state, not Federal. If it was Federal, you'd see every state scrambling. :) Plus, if it was Federal, I doubt the IL house would be actively passing laws allowing us MORE lights...

Stay safe!

[nomad1085]

Flashing emergency light colors and number there-of are not federal regulations. The regulations are set in place by you individual state statutes.

In CT it blue and wig-wags for volunteer firefighters; green and wig-wags for volunteers EMS; red/ clear/ siren for cheif officers. Cops use red/ blue and wig wags. Another state may be the complete opposite.

Federal regulations only mandate the DOT lighting on vehicles (headlights, taillights, signals, etc.)

[43367453372gh]

I'm from Alabama and the use of Lights on P.O.V.'s is set forthby the public safety official. I volunteer on a rural department where the county sherrif says we cannaot run any emergency lights on our P.O.V.'s...But in the city to the north of us which is a municipality they are allowed to run lights on thier P.O.V.'s but they abuse the right very badly and in my opnion they endanger the lives of the people they are there to protect. This abuse is what ruins privledge for everybody else. I think they should regulate the the lights stricter and make penilties harsher. But let us run lights if we need them...

[capfiremedic]

Boy that tongue must be scar tissue by now!

I try to teach my people that driving like the hammers of hell just makes our job harder. The key to this issue is DUE REGARD TO SAFETY OF TRAFFIC. Remember it's a Chevy, not a Cessna. That goes for the apparatus too. It does no good to risk taking out a Firefighter or another civilian responding to a call... Or killing yourself. I've had to respond to a fellow volunteer that piled a pumper into a Rock Maple while rolling to a mutual aid call. He was lucky, he lived. The Pumper was DOA though, and rescue assets that were neededelsewhere were tied up for hours needlessly. As far as lighting on POV's goes research the laws and obey them. Don't go overboard with the red-n-blinkies or you'll get branded as another Captain Midnight Wannabe even if you aren't. My car has only a Firefighters licence plate visible, and a radio antenna. I do have reds front and rear, wig-wags and a PA-300 when I need it, but I don'T advertise them. Use caution and common sense and fer Cryin out loud be careful!
Remember, EGH!


Of all the things I lost in KATRINA, I miss my mind the most...

[BPFire1618]

My department has the following rules regarding lights.

Firefighters:
Blue lights

EMS:
Blue/Green lights

Fire Police:
Blue lights
Red ONLY when stopped at a fire police scene.

Line Officers:
Full size (over 18") lightbars

Chief Officers:
No restrictions, sirens allowed

[mdb5464]

In my department, POV lights are only alowed to be turned on when on-scene, which is the only purpose they serve in my opinion. They don't save anytime getting to the station or to a call. Fire runs red lights. White and amber are also allowed, but white must be forward facing, and amber must be rear facing

[rschultzjr]

On my Fire Department we allow our members to respond to the station using Emergency Warning Systems on their POV's, but they must meet the following requirements.

1. Must be on Regular Active Status and approved by the Fire Chief (probationary fire fighters are not allow to have Emergency Warning Systems). Regular Active State Fire Fighters means that a member
must have successfully completed Michigan Fire Fighters Training Council's Fire Fighter 1, and Drivers Training for Emergency Vehicles.

2. Must have the POV inspected by a certified mechanic to verify it is in proper working condition (yearly).

3. Must have at least 1 rotating RED warning light visible 360 degrees at 500 feet in normal atomospheric conditions. Member may use white warning lights to the forward only.

4. Must have an electronic siren with a minimum output of 100 watts.

WE ALSO STRESS REPEATEDLY TO OUR MEMBERS THAT WARNING SYSTEMS ARE FOR REQUESTING THE RIGHT-OF-WAY, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE THEM ON DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT-OF-WAY. DRIVE RESPONSIBLY AND CAREFULLY.

Just for example on my POV I have a Federal Signal Highlighter (mini bar) with a clear outer dome and red filters, on the dash of my car I have a Whelen Dual Strobe Dashmiser (red/clear), I have wig wags, 1 pair of red strobes in the rear window and a pair of remote strobes in my taillights. Also have a Federal Signal PA-300 100 watt Electronic Siren.

[emt401]

in arkansas fire and ems use red and white sometimes amber. police use blue and white. green are sometimes used by the forestry department, purple is used buy funeral proccessions.
as far as vol. ff. and first responders goes, red and white lights only. yellow if you want,but nobody will pay any attention to you. if you have any lights on your hey must be visible 360 degrees around the vechile. if you are running with lights on, you have to have a siren too, its the law, for all emergency vechiles.
you can run any combination of lights as long as they are the right colors. some people put huge lightbars on top of their vechiles. i dont really like the big lightbars, but hey to each his own. i prefer corner strobes in the head and tail lights and couple leds front and back. they are concealed and only show when you want them to.
most people will get out of the way, but still got to be careful. your not supposed to go more than 10 over the speedlimit. but you can go through red lights after stopping to clear the intersection.

[FirstDueCTVol]

Usually the guys telling you that lights on the POV don't get you there any faster or are a waste of money are on dept's that don't allow them !!

And they add DRAMATICALLY to your safety on a scene. If they don't then why do we put so many on al of our apparatus??

In our station it is easy to see who runs without lights - they never make it on the trucks and usually not even to the scene (if it is an MVA) until the tow trucks get there !!!

And by the way, all of our POV accidents have been with guys NOT OPERATING lights !!!!

[SgtScott31]

Usually the guys telling you that lights on the POV don't get you there any faster or are a waste of money are on dept's that don't allow them !!

And they add DRAMATICALLY to your safety on a scene. If they don't then why do we put so many on al of our apparatus??

In our station it is easy to see who runs without lights - they never make it on the trucks and usually not even to the scene (if it is an MVA) until the tow trucks get there !!!

And by the way, all of our POV accidents have been with guys NOT OPERATING lights !!!!


Your first sentence is ridiculous. There have been proven statistics that running "emergency" traffic only makes up a few seconds versus no lights.

Before I became a career LEO/FF/EMT-IV, I volunteered for around 8 yrs on a rescue squad up to Asst. Chief. The POV response got so ridiculous with neighboring Fire depts that the Sheriff of the county involved advised his deputies not to call the Fire dept unless fire/smoke was observed in a house or during an MVA. I didn't blame him either. Most MVA's I worked, we had a hard time getting our rescue vehicles (that do the extricating) to the vehicles involved because of the plague of POV's of volunteer FF's.

Out of 11 volunteer FD's in the county, about half let any their FF's place lights on their POVs. Most of them did not meet the state statutes of emergency equipment and hardly any of them were trained correctly in EVOC and the state laws regarding emergency response. It was a HUGE lawsuit waiting to happen.

Tennessee has finally implemented a law this year that requires paid or volly emergency personnel to go through a minimum amount of hours in EVOC training. I hope it helps.

[FirstDueCTVol]

we do provide the evoc course. And I agree with much of what you said, like my post said - in our experience in our district. Obviously, this differs from place to place. And keep in mind I was not talking about a full code 3 response - we use only warning lights and wait at red lights.

Also, when I was director of EMS in a large city I also could see little difference in response times. However, this was in a large city with many variables - and for fire vehicles in cities the priority makes little difference - this is not true in other types of districts.

The data you cite is somewhat flawed by the "urban factor" - I wish we could always run cold - reality is we can't.

[Godsmack]

I hate it when people don't know laws of their home state, NYS allows only 1 Bluelight or lightbar with no breaks in the middle or clear lense's with blue bulbs/filters, NYS has taken out of the state V&T law the amount of candle power a light can be put out, also strobes or any light that gives off blinding flashes is also prohibited. you may not run any other color with the blue light so having amber in the back of a lightbar is also prohibited, You may not speed or force that old grandma off the road. Honking your horn flashing your highbeams will only get you a ticket if a passing police crusier shall be passing you. People with using a bluelight must have a blue light card signed by chief or his sucessor. NYS will never change any other laws governing bluelights except that they are only to be used by vol. fireman. State Police are still fighting to use them in the back of there patrol cars. I say have at it because the blue light is totally worthless anyways when you are sitting at a four way intercection with a bluelight on and the firetrucks, chiefs , ambulance are going by you. Remember bluelights are as good as toilet paper good at sometimes but other times it can create a mess on your fingers and hands.

[FirstDueCTVol]

Stinks to be a volly in NY - in CT the more lights the better !

[275fbvfd]

our dept is nothing near rural, and we dont allow pov response to scenes, so i cant comment on those.

i dont think pov's need lights, and whoever said it is correct, we have a no light policy.
whats even worse in my mind is dept's that allow lights and NO SIRENS, that is absolutely ridiculous, i fight people in the dept im in who do that with apparatus, even at o-dark thirty, the siren is there for a reason, if there is a collision, and you had lights and no siren on, prepare for a lawsuit.

our coverage area is only 6 sq miles, with a pop. of about 17,000 , 95 percent residential, does it take a while to get through all the resi. streets, sure, but safety is key. if you get cought running even your hazards, you are suspended immediately.

now i do understand if your dept. is rural, i grew up in NC where my father was a ff. with lights, it sometimes took 10-15 minutes to a scene, i understand rural, but if its urban, i see no need for lights



i have worded this as best i could ( been at work for almost 18 hrs now )
if i have offended someone, it is coincidence, forums are for discussion.

or if you just feel the need, flame away, just be gentle :)

[CaptainMikey]

All I can say is that it can get you killed. It happend a few times in the communities to the north, up in northern missouri. And the comment allways being made is that you are only useful alive. Plus do you think the fire is going to get up and walk away?

[CaptainMikey]

and honestly I would rather arive with water and tools than just my bunkers.

[dneptun81]

Nicely put Capt. Mikey

[Adam07003]

I've volunteered in a few states, in Virginia it's two red lights steady burning or flashing. In Colorado however Vol's could run full light bars (red, wht, blu lites) and sirens. This I thought was a bit much, after sitting at a busy four lane intersection watching a engine responding east bound w/ full lights & sirens, and a volunteer responding north bound approaching the same intersection in his Oldsmoblie w/ light's & siren going it was obvious the drivers approaching or stopped at the intersection were focused on the east bound engine. Once the engine passed drivers then attempted to proceed through the intersection only to be suprised by Johnny on the spot in his Oldsmobile blasting for the road. Take Illinois, would you pull over for someone behind you with "green" flashing lights? How about NJ, PA, NY of CT where blue lights are for vol's. Yes I do agree vol's should have the right to run warning lights, but their should be a standard nation wide.


I agree 100% about a standard. I volunteer in NJ as an EMT, blue lights for EMS/FD. Now I live in NJ where I volunteer and now its EMS Is green and FD is blue, HOWEVER im an EMT with a FD (im not FF1 certified) and we were told to use blue... there SHOULD be a standard. I know Virgina police are blue lights, and NY/NJ are red lights for police/fire... i mean why are all these states using different colors. One standard should be met that way no matter what state you are in, your fine.

[Adam07003]

Warning lights and sirens should be reserved for the bonafide emergency vehicles, ie, fire trucks, ambulances, police cruisers. It's just plain confusing to the motoring public to have dozens of POV's, all different shapes and sizes, displaying each a different warning signal, responding through town when an alarm comes in. Add to that the few throttle jockies in that group, and the liability far outweighs the benefit.

Think about, how many true life threatening emergencies did you respond to in the last year? Light and siren use has never been proven to have made a positive influence in the outcome of these tragedies, which make up only a small portion of the total response volume.

This subject is and always has been, an emotional one.
Statements like, "if it were your house," or "IF your family was in danger," are typically used to defend its use, rather than factual evidence. Because, the facts will show that the use of lights and sirens on POV's has no benefit to the final outcome of a life threatening situation.

Those throttle jockies are gonna be throttle jockies wether they are in a honda civic or a HUGE *** fire truck... i believe in lights in POV's but i ALSO believe it should be MANDATORY for anybody whos going to display lights in a POV to go through a training course to properly know how to drive and to ALWAYS THINK that they are not scene. I drive with my lights on but let me tell ya, if there are carfs around me i dont try any funny stuff, because

#1) i have no siren
#2) im not a big fire truck
#3) you think im gonna risk putting my truck into an accident, i put too much work into it

[capfiremedic]

Well in new york we use blue lights except chiefs, which use red lights and can have wig wags if they want. But only a chief can have wig wags, don't argue, its the law set by federal regulations. Souly cause wig wags mock police lights and they feel as they can be abused. And I hope you realize that as of january 2002 you will be pulled over if you have more than one light on your pov, you are going to be facing a fine, this does not vary by state, its a federal regulation.
You'll have to show me that wither in the CFR's or the USC... I think that's malarky otherwise you'd see naational standardisation... and that hasn't happened

[capfiremedic]

Well in new york we use blue lights except chiefs, which use red lights and can have wig wags if they want. But only a chief can have wig wags, don't argue, its the law set by federal regulations. Souly cause wig wags mock police lights and they feel as they can be abused. And I hope you realize that as of january 2002 you will be pulled over if you have more than one light on your pov, you are going to be facing a fine, this does not vary by state, its a federal regulation.
You'll have to show me that either in the CFR's or the USC... I think that's malarky otherwise you'd see national standardization... and that hasn't happened. Other than NFPA standards for apparatus, all I've seen is state law. Even the different federal agencies can't make up their minds.