Hydrant usage and why do this?

[911WACKER]

Here is one for you:

Let's say your first in engine pulling up to a 2-story residential, room and contents fire. There is a 500 gpm hydrant right in front of the fire building, but your chief orders you to lay 5" from a hydrant 700 feet down the street thats rated at 750gpm, Second engine is 2 minutes behind. WHY? and what would you do?

[Bones42]

May not like it, but I would hit the hydrant the chief told me to. He is (hopefully) at the scene and may have noticed something wrong with the hydrant. (damaged/o.o.s./blocked, etc)

If I found later there was no problem with that hydrant, I'd take him aside and expect some really good reason for why he gave that order. I am assuming your first truck will only be putting one line in service (until help arrives) and even with a 2 1/2" 500gpm is enough to start.

[ALSfirefighter]

I'm with bones also. Follow the order and discuss it later. The chief is the chief, unless its a direct threat to my safety, or gross neglegence, I'd do it. Again, you never know, he may have seen or know something you didn't/don't. Not following an order can set a bad precedence with other staff/personnel, and the chief would have to make an example of you to prevent any further ideas of such. Or to simply put it, not following that order is freelancing in its purest form.

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The above is my opinion only and doesn't reflect that of any dept/agency I work for, deal with, or am a member of. :D

[Mav 426]

Got to agree with the discipline side of things. But here in the Australian Capital Territory th Station Officer (Lt) is doing his size up or appreciation of the situation. Our motor driver/pump operator hooks up as close as he can and we get to work. Having said that we have got under ground hydrants that produce about 700 kpa so we have good working pressure to start with. On the whole our pump drivers (everyone we alternate week to week except probies) is responsible for getting water before our onboard water runs out (1300 litres or 350 US gallons).

[JTL]

Chief wants it laid? Lay it and sort it out afterwords.

[SilverCity4]

I think we can all agree on the issue of following the order.

Can anybody think of a reason why the chief would want to lay LDH from a hydrant farther away? Perhaps planning ahead in case the fire gets more involved?

[CAPN22]

I would have made the same call to be honest. Even a single family dwelling I normally won't hook the hydrant if it's in front of the property. 2 or 3 doors down, across the street yes. But not in front. It's just to close and with the lines hooked in it's more things to get in the way. My thoughts only.

[Knighthawk]

I would have to agree with the others about Laying in from the 750gpm hydrant. Chief may have seen more to this fire than meets the eye. There seem to be a couple of reasons why to do this. 1. Hydrants may be on the same loop? 2. Keeping the engine out of the front of the building for the first due truck co. 3. How about Collapse zones? (This one maybe overkill) 4. Have the first due engine drop the line at the hydrant lay in and have the second due engine assist with hook up if the hydrant man is a little slow and boost the pressure a little more.

These are just my thoughts, I maybe a little a base or out all the way out in left field on some of these, but these are just my thoughts.

[firecat1524]

Catch the hydrant you were told to catch and discuss it in the post incident critique. Knight, remembering the collapse zone isn't overkill in my mind....the body shop people might disagree however. :)

[matt n]

My first thought would be that hooking up right in front of the house would leave no room for the truckies to pull in. (You all know they need their space ;) )But anyway, how about hooking up to both hydrants, if you have two intakes. I think its much easier to keep track of water flow from one pumper rather than two. Plus it cuts down on space that the other pumper might need.

stay safe.
-Matt

[911WACKER]

Thanks for the input, just to let you know this did not happen to me although it was puzzling to see. As always I would have followed orders if it were me.

If the job was more than a one liner, hooking to both would be worth the effort.

[bobsnyder]

In general, it's not good practice to use hydrants immediately adjacent to a fire building. I've heard several rationales for this. Here are a few:

1. If anything happens in the fire building (partial collapse, etc.) that ruptures a main incoming water line, it could also compromise the flow/pressure from the hydrant directly adjacent to the building. In this case, your water supply may be reduced or cut off at exactly the moment you most need it. If your supply is a block or two away (or more), chances are that it will be far enough "upstream" that it won't be significantly affected.

2. If the adjacent hydrant ends up in a collapse zone and a collapse occurs, you lose not only your primary attack piece, but your water supply as well. If you lose only the attack piece, it's much easier to get another rig in and hook to your established supply from down the street.

3. The Chief said so. This is the one for those of you who don't like the first two reasons. :D

[JTL]

3. The Chief said so. This is the one for those of you who don't like the first two reasons.

Excellent response Bob. The first two answers were correct and informative and the third is for naysayers.:D

[dfd3dfd3]

I had this scenario happen to me about a year ago. Except the hydrant was in front of the house next to the house that was on fire. We layed 300 feet of 5" to the first in engine, and went to work, when we were done we saw a nice shiny hydrant 25 ft from the engine. Its ultimatly the driver's responsibility to locate a water source so he shouldve seen that, my officer saw it on his map but didnt want to second guess the chief, so we laid in. The reason we laid in was the nearest hydrant was over looked. If the radio isnt too jammed up with traffic id prob mention that other hydrant before laying out 300 ft of 5", but really you gotta do what the chief says its not a good habit to get into of second guessing his orders.