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NJFFSA16
05-01-2002, 02:45 AM
From the AP Wires:

YAKIMA, Wash. (AP) - A dispute over timber harvesting on public
lands has effectively squelched U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell's efforts
to require independent investigations of Forest Service firefighter
deaths.
It's unfortunate that Congress has passed up an opportunity to
ensure such investigations involve more than the Forest Service
reviewing itself, said Mariano Morales, a Yakima lawyer who has
been working with the relatives of the four firefighters who died
last summer in the Thirty Mile fire.
"I think it's hogwash," Morales said Tuesday. "The inherent
bias the agency has had and will continue to have when it
investigates itself will result in two things: a colored report
and, secondly, it will make it easier for the agency not to change
things."
Cantwell, D-Wash., said she will press the legislation in the
future.
"This decision is a setback in our efforts to reform the Forest
Service's culture in the wake of the Thirty Mile fire," she said.
"My fire safety amendment would have injected independence into
the investigations of forest fire fatalities by requiring the
inspector general of the U.S. Department of Agriculture to
investigate any future deaths of forest firefighters in the line of
duty."
The Forest Service is an agency within the USDA.
Four Naches Ranger District firefighters - Tom Craven, 30, of
Ellensburg, and Devin Weaver, 21, Jessica Johnson, 19, and Karen
FitzPatrick, all of Yakima - died last July in the Thirty Mile fire
in the Okanogan National Forest.
They were trapped along with 10 other firefighters and two
campers when the fire tore through the narrow Chewuch River canyon
near Winthrop. All four died from breathing superheated air in
their emergency fire shelters.
The Forest Service and the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration investigated the deaths, concluding that fire bosses
and managers failed to follow the 10 standard safety rules for
firefighting and ignored basic warning signs of danger.
But OSHA has no power to force the Forest Service to make safety
changes.
There have been numerous objections to the Forest Service
investigating itself, and the families of those who died have grown
increasingly frustrated with the failure of the agency to punish
anyone for the mistakes made July 10.
"There needs to be an outside objective review ... and some
form of strict disciplinary action," Morales said.
Cantwell's amendment was attached to the forestry section of the
national farm bill, but when negotiations between Democrats and
Republicans over a tree-thinning program collapsed in the
House-Senate conference committee on Monday, the forest policy
section of the bill was dropped.
Ken Weaver, whose son, Devin, was one of the firefighters
killed, said he was disappointed Congress allowed a partisan
dispute to take precedence over worker safety.
"I guess I just can't fathom that an issue such as worker
safety could be partisan. That's not a Democratic or a Republican
issue. We all have a fundamental right to minimum workplace
safety," Weaver said.
"They're really playing politics with these young kids' lives.
It shines a light on one of the things that's wrong with our
political system."

(Copyright 7999 by The Associated Press.

DenverFarmboy
05-01-2002, 04:18 AM
:) What's the sain' "We rush in in when fools rush out", . . . didn't these parents "realise" what their son was volunteering for??? FIRST , he was of legal age to make his own decision, after the proper training, & realised the dangers inhearent to wildland firefightin'.

SO , what's the problem??? Oh, do the "parents" see our Federal Goverment" as "deep pockets " who they might B able 2 get a little $$$ off of??? OR, do they see their son as a better hueman being serving the better cause of "serving their fellow man" (read person, O.K. U 'P.C.' folks?) ???

Don't know, myself; . . . if it was MY son, I'd feel pretty damn proud that my son gave his life in the service of others !!! Guess this makes all them 9-11 "heroes" SAPS , huh??? Oh, ONLY NYFD fallen 'COUNT'? Guess all them Wildland FIREFIGHTERS R just so much "chattle", huh?

I, as many of us do, GRIVE for ALL lost firefighters!!! Whether man/woman/city/wildland!!! I CAN understand these parents loss, BUT can't they feel the GRATITUDE that we ALL feel 4 their son?!?!?!!! I know "pride" in their son won't bring him back, but, couldn't some peace come to them KNOWIN' that he gave his life for OTHERS ???

I don't know. Just my small 1/2 cent worth. Guess "God" will B the Judge, huh?
Peace ya'll!

NJFFSA16
05-01-2002, 07:09 AM
DenverFarmboy...I think, possibly, that you missed the point of the article....

The Forest Service and the Occupational Safety and Health
Administration investigated the deaths, concluding that fire bosses
and managers failed to follow the 10 standard safety rules for
firefighting and ignored basic warning signs of danger.
But OSHA has no power to force the Forest Service to make safety
changes.

That's the issue here...what good are the findings/recommendations if they can not be enacted or enforced? ;)

It's comparable to the National Transportation Safety Board. They investigate the accidents, but can only make recommendations to the FAA, based on their findings.

:p

medford
05-03-2002, 03:30 PM
Denver farm boy,

I totally disagree with your statement of "We rush in when fools rush out." This business is NOT about being a fool, running in without thinking of the consequences, having a game plan to handle the situation. I think that the deaths of my local comrades show that THIS IS QUITE SERIOUS.

Devin was not a volunteer, He was gainfully employed by USFS, and yes he elected to take this job, a job with certain risks.

I agree to the point that this job is dangerous but when you analyze a situation, create and implement a plan based on the intelligence gathered earlier, monitor the effectiveness of a plan and reevaluate that should help go about things in a SAFE manner.

I think you completely missed the point of the news article. The article is about the families wanting to have the government increase the safety standards of the job. NOT sue the government and get their hands into the “deep pockets.” Personally, I do think that they should get more money than they did get, it is the least that they could do.

What the point also it the fact that OSHA (Occupational Safety and Health Administration) investigated the fatalities separately from USDA/USFS and also agreed that they broke many of the standing orders that aren’t supposed to be violated. The problem is that they cannot impose fines against other federal agencies. Meaning that nothing was done to the FS.

In today’s society it’s a fact that the majority of people are motivated by money, or it always has some part in the bottom line. The family partially wants OSHA to be able to hand out monetary fines so that most people will wake up and take this much more seriously. Think about it: Will you do something again if you get a slap on the hand, probably. But if you get a whopping fine (speeding ticket) will you be likely to do that again, probably not. That is what OSHA is to the other federal agencies. They can just point their finger and say “don’t do that again or well be upset.” They want to reverse that and give OSHA the Big, Big-ticket book, and a fat red pen to be able to make the violator and others pay attention to that act and see that it’s not right. People that were fined and others will look at the consequences of the violations (people being hurt/death) and a fat fine to add some extra meaning to it.


I don’t know if you can feel their grief and pain unless you lost a son or daughter. I lost a friend that day and another that I went to high school with was burned pretty severely. I admit that I have can’t feel that way. I’ve lost members of my family but not any family member on the job. I do know what it personally feels for me and have seen fellow friends who were also closely related to them or were there experience some of the pain and sadness they experienced but that is only the tip of the iceberg of how the families feel.

I went to some of the funerals and did go to the massive memorial service that was in Yakima. I didn’t make all cause my crew had to cover the area.

DenverFarmboy
05-04-2002, 01:47 AM
I hope they all find Peace. Guess I could B wrong.

D.F.