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NJFFSA16
06-04-2002, 03:40 AM
If the campers responsible for this fire could be located, could/would they be held accountable for the deaths? In Worcester, MA., the homeless persons who admitted causing the fire that killed some of their bravest, were charged in the deaths. Most of the charges have been dropped. Interesting possibility....but, I believe, doubtful.
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From the AP wires:
Forest Service searching for campers who started deadly fire

TACOMA, Wash. (AP) - Eleven months after the Thirty Mile fire
killed four firefighters on the Okanogan National Forest,
investigator Ron Pugh wonders if the people who started the blaze
even know what they did.
The careless campers who inexpertly built a fire ring to cook
hot dogs have never been found.
"It could be somebody that just didn't care," Pugh, a 28-year
U.S. Forest Service veteran, told The News Tribune of Tacoma. "It
could be somebody that just didn't know."
Evidence from the scene - about 1.5 miles from the spot in the
narrow Chewuch River canyon where 14 firefighters and two campers
were trapped by the raging fire - includes two pieces of hot dog, a
stick cut from a nearby bush and the fire ring itself, which Pugh
called the most poorly constructed fire ring he'd seen in his
career.
Killed last July 10 were Tom Craven, 30, of Ellensburg, and
Devin Weaver, 21, Jessica Johnson, 19, and Karen FitzPatrick, 18,
all of Yakima. A fifth firefighter escaped with serious burns.
Last week, the Forest Service announced that it intended to
discipline 11 employees for their actions in the Thirty Mile fire.
An Occupational Safety and Health Administration investigation
found the Forest Service willfully disregarded the safety of its
employees, when fire managers and bosses broke basic firefighting
safety rules and ignored numerous warnings signs of danger.
A $50,000 reward has been offered for information leading the
identification of the people who started the fire.
"To me, it is a huge piece of the story," Pugh said. "OK, so
maybe there were mistakes made - that's not my call - but if
somebody hadn't left their fire unattended, none of this would have
happened in the first place."
Tom Craven's mother, Virginia, finds it hard to believe the
firestarters don't have a clue.
"The thought had to run across their mind," she said. "I
don't see how anybody could live with something like that."
Pugh reconstructs the scene over and over:
On Saturday, July 7, 2001, it was 98 degrees, and dry as dust.
Two campers, possibly a man and a woman, stop their vehicle at a
wide spot on a road near the national forest's Andrews Creek
trailhead.
Campsites in the area are full, but this spot is free.
The campers may have gone swimming in the Chewuch River. They
build a fire on a bed of pine needles, break off sticks from a
nearby bush, sharpen the ends and roast hot dogs.
Finishing their meal, they drop two half-eaten hot dogs on the
ground. The river is 30 feet away, but they make no effort to snuff
the fire with water or dirt.
They get back into their vehicle - possibly a dark-colored sport
utility vehicle with Montana license plates - and drive away,
leaving the fire burning.
Untended, it creeps between gaps in the ring of rocks, and
smolders in the grass and brush. On July 9, the fire has started to
burn with sufficient intensity that an airborne fire spotter sees
and reports it. A day later, it will explode from 25 acres to 2,500
acres in less than three hours.
Since then, Pugh and his investigative team have received close
to 100 tips and conducted several interviews that have helped fill
in the some of the gaps.
The campers built a fire ring. In Pugh's mind, that argues
against arson or deliberate negligence. The poor construction tells
him they were inexperienced.
They never came forward. That suggests two possibilities to
Pugh: Either they don't know, or they're afraid to speak. If they
do know, he can't imagine that they haven't told anyone.
Rick Weber, Okanogan County prosecutor, could not say what
charges the campers might face if they were found. The decision
would depend on the circumstances, but possibilities range from a
simple misdemeanor for leaving a fire untended to manslaughter
charges.
Virginia Craven said she isn't sure what penalty would be
appropriate, but she doesn't want the campers to just get away with
it.
Kathie FitzPatrick, mother of Karen FitzPatrick, would like to
see the campers at least banned from national forests for the rest
of their lives.
Ken Weaver, Devin Weaver's father, suggested the campers should
pay for the damages caused by the fire. It burned 10,000 acres, and
the Forest Service spent more than $1.5 million to fight it.

(Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press.

Temptaker
06-04-2002, 04:21 AM
NJ

This kind of thing really bothers me. I believe in that other fire you mentioned where the person admitted it was their fault, that probation was the sentence.

I have to wonder what the sentence would be if it was a police officer killed instead of a fire fighter? Where do the loyalties lie? It seems to me that even after the MURDERS of 9/11 fire fighters aren't given the respect they should be. The loss of their lives isn't taken seriously enough, why because it is a dangerous profession. Well that isn't really good enough is it. Police work is dangerous, but one of them gets killed in the line of duty, and it's like the sky fell or something. I don't mean this as disrespect to anyone who works as a police officer. I just don't believe that there should be any difference when it comes to prosecuting people involved in someone's death.

It's just like that reporter at ground zero who got caught impersonating a fire fighter... it's a felony impersonate a police officer, so why isn't it a felon to impersonate a fire fighter? Or is it and they just don't pursue it the same way? I don't believe it is a felony in Canada, and it should be. If the police hear about someone impersonating a police officer, they pull out all the stops to catch the guy.

Sorry I digress... should they be held responsible, YES. Will they be caught, probably not. Would the prosecutorial authorities actively pursue it in the manner it should be pursued... doubtful.

It saddens me.

NJFFSA16
06-04-2002, 06:34 AM
I know exactly how you feel about a police officer killed versus a firefighter killed. There seems to be a whole different attitude regarding each. I can not answer the question...WHY. Both are highly visible public servants, both have dangerous professions....but, good God, if you kill a cop...the story is SO much different.

We had a 1300 acre wildfire here over the past two days....and although no deaths were caused by the fire, the damage and suppression costs will be astronomical. They believe it was caused by campers...and if they can prove that, they would charge them with the cost of the fire. This sort of thing is covered in NJ statutes. However, had any firefighters died...I don't know what case law exists regarding that. It would be another negligent homicide issue, I suppose. George Wendt would be a good source on this!

Yes....I digressed also.:rolleyes:

I guess the line Rodney Dangerfield would use here is, "firefighters, they get no respect!"

Temptaker
06-05-2002, 03:43 AM
Exactly... where is Mr. Wendt anyway? I would love to hear his take on it.

NJFFSA16
06-05-2002, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by Temptaker
Exactly... where is Mr. Wendt anyway? I would love to hear his take on it.

Hmmm....vacationing with StayBack?:cool:

Temptaker
06-05-2002, 05:20 AM
Hehe... oh great!

No I know he is here somewhere... It is just a matter of tracking him down