Dear John,....... [Archive] - Firehouse Forums

webteam

07-22-2002, 08:53 PM

Does anyone know why it is taking FEMA 4 to 5 months to notify the grant applicants? Seems like an very long time. But, one must remember "they are from the government and are here to help us"!!!!

Just from the outside, imagine if they did notify all 5,000 at once? They would be flooded with inquriries and requests on getting the money, notifying Congressional and local leaders, notifying departments, etc. As well as the aforementioned process of verifying departments still could match.

By releasing a few hundred every two weeks or so, while frustrating for the Departments (including those departments that we are from), its a necessary process. Once the 'No' letters go out soon that should take the burden off some departments not knowing. But even then, unfortunately, some departments will not find out until the bitter end whether they received awards.

PeteLO655

07-23-2002, 08:28 AM

Yesterday I received a phone call telling me that we have been denied with a nice little "better luck next year" quote on the end. Very disappointed. Good luck to all who remain.

Pete

jcchief

07-23-2002, 10:06 AM

While I do not claim to be an expert on the the process, I do feel that the management of applications and the rewards is by far the smoothest I have ever seen. You should see what CDA grants are like.

If ones are not experienced with grants management they may not appreciate just how complicated and painful most other grants are. As an example, my city broke ground yesterday on a water main project that was applied for five years ago. If that was not bad eneough, each level of government got to take a nice amount for administrative fees. By the time that happens at three levels of government, there is not much left to do the work.

In the case of the FIRE ACT GRANT, FEMA has established a new grant program, awarded and managed the first year, lobbied for and recieved additional funds, fully developed an on line application process, recruited hundreds of qualified grant reviewers (at no charge) and started to make award announcements. I for one have never seen such a streamlined program.

I too wait semi-patiently for the phone to ring, but it is nice to see know that our fate is in the hands of people who actually seem qualified.

Respectfully,

Lon Squyres
Jacinto City

ffpm43

07-23-2002, 10:43 AM

Ok, what is the format of the Dear John , i thought it would be electronic, but people are actually getting phone calls? So far havent heard either, so we are keeping everything crossed.

PeteLO655

07-23-2002, 12:52 PM

My notification happened as coincidence. I was working with a fella from FEMA about the website and the problems I was having accessing the 1199a form. Bear in mind, this is all happening after I received the email from FEMA telling me to fill out the form, then later being told that I received this letter in error. As we discussed my problems, he mentioned that my app number was not on his list, which, ultimatley, means I was not even in the running. I assume an official letter will soon follow.
Good luck.

Pete

jmkfire

07-23-2002, 03:40 PM

Sorry to hear that Pete. All the trouble you were having, even I had my fingers crossed for ya!:) It's been a week since I sent back the questionaire and haven't recieved anything else from FEMA. I'm still hoping.
Stay Safe!!!!!

dragonfyre

07-23-2002, 05:57 PM

I just got off the phone with a friend who is a high ranking muck-e-muck with the USFA and I was told that:

1) No Dear John letters have gone out yet and won't for at least another week or two. They had a problem with the interface so nothing has been sent. Letters will only be sent to those who didn't pass the peer review process for now.

2) No phone calls have been made nor will they be made. FEMA does not have the time or manpower to do anything like that. Don't know who's making prank phone calls but someone is trying to pull some legs out there.

As to all the whining that's going on already he told me a very good comparison: You don't hear the cops whining when they don't get a grant. They have been getting grants for years and know how to play the game. Now it's our turn to play and learn the "How to get Federal Money Game". Crying won't help. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.

Those who get the money get it because they know how to present their case properly. You have to show need, not greed.

As for why it's taking so long I was told that they will be announcing the grants every two weeks until the END OF THE YEAR! So we will all be on edge until we are notified of either success or denial (not failure).

I was also told that there is a good chance that the additional $150 million will be approved and signed by "W" which will provide an additional 2000 or so grants.

That's why no one has been notified yet since they're really not sure of how much money there will be total.

Want to make sure you have a chance to get a federal grant? Contact your Congressperson and your Senators NOW and ask them to support the additional funds for this year and the continued funding in years to come.

Want to try to enhance your opportunity to win a grant? Take a grant writing course. It's the best $ you can spend. It's like the old business adage, "You have to spend money to make money".

jcchief

07-23-2002, 06:13 PM

For those who seem to feel that the FEMA grant process is painful or prolonged, you need to look around at other grant programs out there. I have applied for, recieved and been rejected from just about every agency offering money. FEMA is by far the most streamlined process ever. Our city just broke ground on a PW project that was grant funded by CDA five years ago. My last CDBG application was 7 inches thick and required five copies.

I realize that the majority of small departments like ours are not accustomed to the red tape of grant application and management. It takes a lot of patients and doing your homework. You cannot just jot down that you want a big red fire truck and wait for a check in the mail.

For those who receive grants, they need to read the paperwork carefully. You cannot call bubba the local fire equipment guy and get him to drop off a bunch of toys. It is all just part of the BUSINESS of running a fire department. If we are not up to speed in those areas I highly recommend that we seek education in this area.

Funded or not, lets be appreciative for the grant and actively support it in the comming years.

Respectively

Lon Squyres

PeteLO655

07-23-2002, 06:19 PM

In reply to this. I had originally received the phone call with denial. After much dismay, I chose to write FEMA telling them that we were disappointed by the phone call, but we would still like the offical Dear John letter. A few hours later, Al Conners USFA emailed me and wanted to know who told me that over the phone. I gave him the guys name and I would be willing to bet someone is getting their butt kicked right now. The original phone callalso told that I was completely out of the running for the rest of the review process. Now I have no idea what the hell is going on. Good, bad, I have no clue.
In response to crying or whining, well, do you honestly feel that it is right for companies with large budgets and many pcs. of apparatus to receive funds over companies who can't get their engine repaired?
Honestly, I am not being an ***, but many people have noticed the subject.
How about this. This year we had 19200 apps and 5500 grants. Let's round this for easy math.:) 20000 and 5000. Now lets say you satisfy 20000 people over 4 years, then start the process over again. The people who win the year before cant apply again until 4 years later. I would think it is somewhat safe to say that you can live for four years without an expensive upgrade here or there. Hell, we have been waiting for anything for 15 years where I am. Granted situations are different here and there, but for the most part I think it could work.
Not saying crying and whining is good, but let's be part of the solution not the problem right?
Hang tight guys, this is a long bumpy road.

Just my thoughts....

Pete

car120

07-23-2002, 11:27 PM

dragon-fyre:

I see your department got a grant last year. I'm curious if you'd have a different opinion on "whining" if you were turned down?

This program is one GIANT golden egg for a lot of departments out there that will never see any kind of opportunity for funding like this. I can certainly understand folks being upset (being in the same boat) if they get turned down. Throwing jabs like "Whining" and "Crying?" Whatsup with that?

Was I upset last year when we got passed over? Yup. What did I do? Like you said - I picked myself up and dusted myself off, and started preparing for this year as soon as we got the "dear john' letter last year. I learned as much as I could about grants and grant writing. I contacted last year's winners and asked for copies of their narratives (varied responses by the way, which is whole other story) to see what worked (P.S. - thanks a bunch to those out there who DID share). I went to two FEMA workshops for this year's grant (and listened INTENTLY w/lots of notes) program. Threw it all together in this year's application and now I'm crossing my fingers like everyone else. Whatever happens I know for sure I gave it my very best shot.

Will I be upset if we don't make it again? Yup. Why? Mostly because of all the time and effort I put into this (last year AND this year). I did this one by the numbers, I'm not sure what else I could do.

Sometimes venting (i.e. whining) is good for the soul.

ffemt1

07-24-2002, 01:22 AM

I am willing to put up with the red tape. I was willing to put up with not even being able to get a password that would even allow me to apply for a grant for the first 5 days. I just ask that the process is FAIR to ALL. It isn't. Wasn't the goal to bring all departments up to an acceptable level? One of the first grants awarded is being spent on a Demographic Study and a Mass Media Smoke Alarm Campaign, which includes paying for television and newspaper advertisements, safety message slides in movie theatres, pictorial brochures, and door hangers. (That is per their own web site at http://www.tvfr.com/Fire_Grant.htm). This counutry has men and women running into hazardous situations without proper protective equipment!!!, and we are worried about DOOR HANGERS!!!!!! Yes, prevention IS important, but if you can prevent 95% of all the hazardous situations we face everyday with door hangers, you STILL have to deal with 5% of them. And it only takes one to kill you.

And a message for dragon-fyre. I am not whinning. I am posting my opinions so that the "experts" on who post here can explain the situation to me. I am listening, and learning. NFPA approved turnout gear, or door hangers. I just do not get it.

webteam

07-24-2002, 03:34 AM

Just a friendly note to all...don't single out a any Department for receiving funds. That is inappropriate. There are many good projects that will be funded and won't be, for departments with NO budget and a multi-million dollar budget. Singling one out because they got X and your department is still waiting, or didn't, doesn't have any place here.

There will be winners and losers ... some winners who may not deserve funds over some of the losers, and some losers who deserve to lose. But thats the balance of things when you're talking about 20,000 Departments (2/3 of those in the country) and narrowing it down to a lucky 25% or so. If you don't win one this year, don't bash another Department who did. Find ways to make your presentation of need and impact better next year.

There are categories for Fire Prevention, EMS, Apparatus, etc. for a reason. A smoke detector purchased in a fire prevention campaign can save a life just as easily as a brand new fire truck or a full set of turnouts. That's why the funds aern't 'just' for apparatus, or 'just' for training.

How about this scenerio...if you were an evaluator and had to decide between these four options for programs departments couldn't otherwise normally afford, for a $150,000 grant. Remember $150,000 IS ALL YOU CAN GIVE OUT, one GRANT:

A) A rural volunteer department with 20 members who responds to 3-4 working structural fires a year, 200 calls total, asks for $150K to replace a 1957 front line pumper.

B) A somewhat suburban volunteer department with 40 members who responds to 1,500 calls annually, and several dozen working structural fires, who asks for $150K to replace all BAs and Gear, because theirs are 10 years old.

C) A suburban combination department with 40 volunteers and 40 paid firefighters, who will spend $150,000 equipping all of its 35,000 residents with working smoke detectors and an education campaign, in an attempt to reduce the annual fire death rate from 10 a year to less than 3.

D) An all paid metropolitan department with 500 personnel who seeks $150,000 to provide all of its personnel with trackable PASS devices, suggesting they will significantly increase the odds of tracking a lost firefighter.

Can you decide? Is your decision because the deparment is similar to yours, or personal experience?

Now make that decision between 5,000 departments, with $360 million dollars, amongst multiple grant categories and missions.'

jcchief

07-24-2002, 10:31 AM

As to the complaint that departments are funded for prevention projects while others still don't have the bare essentials for the job, that is the way that the grant was structured.

The only way to alter the type of awards is to become active in the legislative process. I would be willing to bet that very few of those complaining even wrote their Senator or House Rep. in support of the grant, much less offer suggestions as to how to use the funding.

It took yeas of hard work to get this money. Do I agree with every award? Of course not. But I will continue to vocally support the grant program and let my elected officials know that I appreciate their commitment to the fire service.

On an additional note. While I did not sit as a reviewer and do not know what criteria was used, I do know what keeps some departments from obtaining other grants. Many times it is difficult for a small department to demonstrate that they have the resources to manage the grant if approved. For that reason a large part of my narrative includes our department's experience with grant administration and equipment acquisition. We also provide details as to the financial management of our city and the auditing firm, which handles the city's circular audit. Agencies providing money to applicants need to be sure that the money will be spent in a timely manner and in a way, which meets the criteria of the grant. We also provide information as to the many assurances, which were part of the application.

Such details assure that an applicant not only deserves the money but that it will be used appropriately and in a responsible fashion. I know of one state grant program that is a joke. They hand out money like it was candy. As an example of the shortcomings of such a program consider one departments plight.

Applied for and received funding to build a small economical fire station. Nothing fancy just a bare bones place to house the rig. The program required no assurances, no proof that the department could support such a project or that it would even be insured. A month or two after it was constructed (probably by the chief's brother -in-law) it collapsed under a moderate snowfall. Now the money is gone there is no insurance money, and the truck sits outside the collapsed station. But they got the grant!

Another department came asking for hand held radios. They were informed that the previous year the same request was funded. Their reply was that after the election of officers the old officers kept the radios and left the department. There was no inventory no police report no insurance. No grant!

These examples may be the exception rather than the rule but perhaps they indicate a need for improvement in the way we do business. By addressing these issues perhaps some department not funded can get money next year.

Just a friendly suggestion or two.

Lon Squyres

PS - Perhaps ones would also benifit by reading a few of the studies published as to the economics of fire prevention. It seems to be a pretty good investment.

dragonfyre

07-24-2002, 10:31 AM

Thank you WEBTEAM for your insights. You're correct that it is a tough decision and that no one should be singled out.

car120: Do you have any idea how many grants I apply for each year and DONT'T get? (FYI, 10-15) You don't see me going to their web sites and moaning. And yes, we did apply again this year. If we dont get it then we learn from our mistakes and reapply next year. I even tried to help other companies learn from our success by letting Rodney Slaughter post our narrative on his grant writing web site.

My friend at USFA told me yesterday that they know that no matter how much money they give to how many compaines there will always be someone unhappy with the process. I don't know if the police community has a web site like this but I'm sure you won't see this kind of thread if they did. They've learned to play the game which is what we have to do.

As for large departments winning Fire Prevention grants while others go begging for trucks and gear, the program is set up to pay for both. Winning a FP grant doesn't take any money away from that allotted for trucks or gear. If you don't think they should supply more money for one item and less for another then write to your folks on Capital Hill.

I'm just afraid that if there is too much discontent show for the program that it will be taken away. Sometimes that's how government works.

To paraphrase Tom Hanks, "There's no whining in firefighting".

ffemt1

07-24-2002, 10:40 AM

The tone goes off. Each department responds to a fully engulfed house fire. So far the same for all. Now comes the easy part.

Give it to "A". Here is why.

Look at the availability of funding.

The small departments in the country fight and strive for maybe one or two thousand dollars increased funding each year. One hundred and fifty thousand dollars is more money that they have see in the last 20 years COMBINED. The same amount of money is probably equal to the money the 500 member department pays for the 2 or 3 full time grant writers they keep on staff.

The tax base for the small departments does not support the purchase of the least expensive, 2 door commercial cab, no optioned fire pumper. The tax base for the larger, multi station departments, with thousands of homes and hundreds or thousands of businesses does support the purchase of the 8 and 10 seat, 4 door, custom cab, highly optioned, chrome plated fire pumper.

As far as I remember, the fire we were dispatched to at the beginning of this post is the same temperature, the same hazards, the same risks to the people responding.

So you make the choice. Who's life is more important? The firefighter from the 500 member department, or the one from the small rural department.

ffemt1

07-24-2002, 12:26 PM

I am sorry if someone thinks I am “whining”. I apologize. I am sorry if I have made some people mad and not played by the rules. I thought this was an open forum to discuss the Fire Act. As a trained Quality Engineer, the only way I know to evaluate a process and determine if is working, like the grant process, is to look at the results, individually. But I will not apologize because a firefighter’s life, any firefighter's life, means a lot to me. I want all of us to go home after each run.

Hiding behind statements like “that is the way that the grant was structured”, or “that's how government works“ is just that, hiding. As far as I know, our friends in Washington are there for only one reason and they do it very well, and that is to make rules, and as they have shown on several occasions, the people that make the rules can change them anytime they want.

After last years grant process was finished, I did write to my Congressman, and my Representative, and the President through the Whitehouse web site, and to Mr. Allbaugh himself. Obviously, one voice did not change the process.

Almarante51

07-24-2002, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by ff_emt1
The tone goes off. Each department responds to a fully engulfed house fire. So far the same for all. Now comes the easy part.

Give it to "A". Here is why.

Look at the availability of funding.

I couldnt agree with you more. Besides, large PAID departments have budgets where they can cut back employee pay, etc. etc. Whereas Volly Departments depend entirely on the funds they have coming in, not to mention the volunteers themselves. Even though some departments might have thousands of calls per year, why are my 60+ calls per year so insignificant? Does it take a LODD to get more attention for smaller departments? Maintenance costs are skyrocketing, not to mention fuel costs. Most volly departments depend upon the seconds and thirds of other larger departments. Also, it seems that there is a great need for overhauling of many department's apparatus, since it seemd that the majority of the grant apps were for apparatus. Maybe FEMA will take note of this fact and change their focus again next year for the grant categories.

But, here is a flip side. Maybe us volly departments went after TOO much this year. The Apparatus portion of the Grant also supports Repair/Upgrading of vehicles. What if many of the Volly departments priced out an upgrade to all of their existing vehicles? Instead of $100k+ for a single new vehicle to replace on older front line apparatus, you could repair/upgrade all of your existing vehicles for what, maybe $50k or less? Maybe we overshot... Just a thought.

Andrew

Almarante51

07-24-2002, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by dragon-fyre
I don't know if the police community has a web site like this but I'm sure you won't see this kind of thread if they did. They've learned to play the game which is what we have to do.

I agree with most of what you said. But how can yo ucompare Police to Fire? I dont recall very many Volunteer Police departments...

I think what some of us are saying is "Can the Grant Process be improved?" I think perhaps, yes it can. Take for example the DOF grant system. I recnetly filled out a DOF grant, it was for maybe $2000, our cost share being $1000. Now, DOF generally tries to spread the funds to all the departments that submit a grant. So, what they do is total everything up. IF they cant fill everyone's needs, then they try to figure out a way to fill the needs that are there. What if FEMA went a step further with the computerized Grant system, and had it model scenarios that would maximize distribution of funds. The DOF Grant system is not a win/lose system, as long as your request is within the grant parameters. I bet alot of departments would be willing to accept a portion of their grant request so that other departments would be able to share in them as well.

Andrew

ffemt1

07-24-2002, 01:28 PM

Let's not talk about the difference between paid vs. combo vs. volunteer. I can probably, without much trouble, find small, under funded paid departments and large, fully funded volunteer departments. That is not the point. The point is, what does it take to protect the people responding to each situation.

jbrandy

07-24-2002, 02:09 PM

I have followed this thread and I have noticed we are missing two significant areas of consideration.

First on the issue of fire equipment vs fire prevention. We have all seen the devastation of fire, but we tend to look through firefighter eyes. We are in one of the few professions where our primary goal is to eliminate our jobs. I would love to live in a safer community. Suppression is the last line of defense, not the first. If we prevent fires from starting and prevent people from being in harm's way, the rest will take care of itself. I requested a grant for a vehicle but I respect the efforts of those that determined that fire prevention was more effective in their area. Each community is different and it is our job to prioritise our needs accordingly.

The second point is what the grant process is doing to facilitate change within our organizations. For years the fire service has lagged behind the business world in fiscal and operational management. The successes and failures of the grant writing process are evolving our departments rapidly. Although frustrating, the good ole' boys that managed our companies must adapt to changes or defer to those with the management,communication and people skills required to bring our companies into the present. Companies are now studying their community and establishing requests based on public need, not just organization wants. Without this painful wake up call, how long would it take to start running our service like a business.

I have applied for many grants-sometimes successful,and sometimes not. Most of the grants go to a worthy cause and we shouldn't dwell on the few problems. You don't look a gift horse in the mouth. I feel that FEMA has done an excellent job with learning from last year and streamlining the process. If we work with the system rather than trashing it, we can make it better in the future. I too wish we knew where our individual comapines stood, but two years ago we had nothing. Complaining hurts us all. Let concentrate our efforts on ensuring the program grows and demonstrating the need to the legislators and the general public. Remember, we are really doing this for them, not us.

To those who have gotten grants, you have done your community proud and to the rest of us waiting on pins and needles-have faith.

dragonfyre

07-24-2002, 03:23 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jbrandy
"Complaining hurts us all. Let concentrate our efforts on ensuring the program grows and demonstraing the need to the legislators and the general public. Remember, we are really doing this for them, not us."

Well said. I also like your thought that we have to run our companies like businesses. This is one of the things that really seperates the paid and volunteer companies.

As far as the comments about the grants going to paid departsments, last I looked FEMA still has a greater percentage allocated to volunteer than the paid or combo departments. That's etched in stone so that more money will go to volunteer companies. FEMA is well aware of the inequities in funding, that's why they designed the program like that.

timm1960

07-24-2002, 03:38 PM

Hopefully the President signs it!
It could help to fund more Grants. Maybe that is why there has been a dely in the "Dear John" leters. FEMA is waiting for the final on this.For more info http://www.firehouse.com/funding/fireact/2002/0723.html

I agree with the last 2 posts!!

It is a business, and it has to be treated that way. I know that is hard to swallow for some of the older FF, but the world is changing.

GOOD LUCK to all

ffemt1

07-24-2002, 06:14 PM

NOW I understand. I should be working on a 100% effective Preventation Program, realizing the current system is perfect, and when the money is gone, whether it was done fairly or not or not, stepping up and saying "Thank You Sir, May I have Another." Now I can sleep better tonight. By the way, thanks for the age discrimination statement.

timm1960

07-24-2002, 06:14 PM

Has anyone received a grant that had lost the 1199a link from their application site. I am just wondering if losing this link is just an error, or the predictive "Dear John".

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but have been through this before.

GOOD LUCK to all!:cool:

car120

07-25-2002, 01:26 AM

dragon-fyre: "If we dont get it then we learn from our mistakes and reapply next year." - Apparently you missed just about all of my post dealing with "learning from my mistakes" with how I better educated myself and reapplied for this year's go around.

Funny thing is, that I agree with most of what you're saying. I just think you could have said it without the "whining" and "crying" shots.

It's reminicent of so many "too bad,...so sad" attitudes that I saw from some (certainly NOT all) winning departments last year, both on online formats like this, and through direct dealings asking for info.
"Quit yer whinin" seemed to be a regular response to anyone who expressed any kind of disappointment or questioned the process.

However, some "whining" last year as you would call it, did help the process this year. For example - the health and safety category. Expressly forbidden to apply for this year were such things as exhaust removal systems for fire stations, and private gym memberships to work out. Those WERE funded last year, and departments who missed out said - "Hey, I couldn't get 20 sets of turnout gear for my guys, because the money (a lot more than what I was asking for) went to another department so their guys can go to Buff's Gym - all expenses paid?" Asking questions like that is legitimate concern on whether or not the money is being spent well and as REALLY intended. It results in program inmprovements, but could be considered "whining" or "sour grapes" by some.

This program is absolutely fantastic, no doubt about it - and that's whether we win OR lose. A few people have put a lot of hard work into this so that many of us (this year 5500 departments + probably another 2000) will have the chance to benefit. I thought the application process, even with the few glitches so far, was just great. The program has vastly improved over last year. But make no mistake - this is a competative program. Some will win, but most will lose. I hope we win (who doesn't?), but for that to happen three departments must lose. Throwing jabs like "quit whining" at those who don't win is just rubbing salt in a wound.

Glad to hear you have time to put in for 10 - 15 grants per year. My administrative assistant (me), secretarial staff (me), and research staff (me) would have a hard time keeping up with a pace like that. Best I can do is three or four a year. Unfortunately my family, job, and other fire chief duties distract me from the grant process. Nobody said the FIRE ACT was my only rodeo either. I've been turned down for my fair share from other sources and programs. But I keep trying!

P.S. - You don't hear much cop moaning because they have so many sources to take a shot at they are almost never unsuccessful in getting at least some from somewhere. Many, many more programs at every level and category with so much more funding than fire. Crime prevention, community policing, highway and traffic safety, education, the list goes on and on. Billions, not millions. But they do moan every once in a while. And they'd moan a lot more if their alternative funding was limited to what we have to compete for. It's not so much that they've learned "how to get the fed money" it's that they have so many places to shop. And Almarante51 - You're right, no such thing as a volunteer police department. Makes a big difference to have paid staff to find and apply to sources.

And guys & gals - just because you haven't been announced in the first two rounds doesn't mean it's all over! Don't jump to conclusions!!! This is going to be a long ride, most likely right to the end of the year. Maybe even longer with the extra funding that's probably going to be coming along.

webteam

07-25-2002, 02:40 AM

Just a note that no one, as of now, has a reason to be upset about the process, since no one has been turned down. In fact, assuming President Bush signs the Supplemental Appropriations Bill, as many as 2,000 MORE Departments will have reason to celebrate.

So, whlie discussion is fine, don't make it a personal battle over differing opinions, please.

Once the process is complete, there will be refining and changes. But we're only in Round Two ... of Many.

And everyone should be figuring their odds just went up a decent notch *from a 1-in-4 chance to 1-in-3 at least) assuming the funds do jump to nearly a half-billion dollars here shortly.

Assuming:
- 19,600 Departments Applied
- 9,200 Made it to the Competetive Phase (Meaning 10,400 will indeed get the 'Dear John' letters at some point)
- 5,500 grants had already been presumed to be funded, before the additional $150M passes. Now that number could jump to 7,000, maybe even 7,500 or more. That means that 75% or more of the grants 'deemed competetive' and reviewed by peers will get funded. Thats a pretty good number.

TRFD698

07-25-2002, 06:10 PM

I agree with car120 with respect to the numerous sources of police funding. It should be remembered that the rational behind the FIRE Act was to help brige some of the gap between law enforcement funding and providing funding to fire departments.

Prior to the FIRE Act only about $124 million was being spent on the fire service, while some $11 billion was made available to law enforcement agencies.

scruggs

07-26-2002, 06:49 AM

got the grant frist time i applyed i wrote it my self and i am no writer took no classes and fell god given lucky to have got it we are a small vol dept and the only help i had was from another firefighter
we got 130500.00 for a pumper and with out this grant we might have had to wait another 30 years to have gotten one we cover 49.5 sq miles with out a pumper now so i hate to say it but i think it is fair and someone knows what there doing !

so i hope this gives other small vol depts hope god bless and be safe

5pts384

07-26-2002, 12:34 PM

Just a little " dark humor" The small rural VFD would not get the award -- we are expendable have you ever heard of the (fire, EMS, or law)"blue canary"?:D

lindengunny

07-26-2002, 01:06 PM

To all:

Noticed on the House of Representatives website this a.m. that HR 4775 - the 2002 Supplemental Appropriations Act for Further Recovery From and Response To Terrorist Attacks on the United States - was presented to the President this morning. Let's keep our fingers crossed.

timm1960

07-31-2002, 06:17 PM

Has anyone heard yet or knoe how to find out. It has been 5 days since he got it.

Also our 1199a link diappeared, but FEMA told me that it doesn't mean we are out of the running. Just thought I would let everyone know also you lost the link or never had it, not to count yourselves out.

GOOD LUCK!

:D

PeteLO655

08-01-2002, 08:08 AM

FEMA explained the same thing to me when I noticed the link was gone.
They told me to not count ourselves out yet. The link could re appear at anytime. I guess now if Bush signs this thing, it will throw the companies that were close, but no cigar, into the pot.

Keepin' my fingers crossed in PA.

Pete

indiana_ff_emt

08-02-2002, 02:33 AM

We received an e-mail today from FEMA advising us to call 1-800-NO-AWARD

JUST KIDDING!!!!:D We have heard nothing.

Just thought I would break up all the seriousness. Someone will need to sign me up for a mental hospital before all this is over. We blew the motor in our 1975 pumper:( on July 11 so I'm hoping our truck grant comes through this time.

WWW.PVFD.NET

PeteLO655

08-07-2002, 08:27 AM

Big day today guys!! Good luck to all of us.
I sort of think I will be walking around with a big "L" on my forehead by this afternoon. Oh well, maybe next year if not this year. With the proposed funding for next year being much higher, that should really give us pretty good odds.
Again, good luck all.

Pete

OleBoots94

08-07-2002, 11:54 AM

Not even 10:00 am and I've checked my mail 12 times.

I'm gonna turn this computer off.

Will peek in later.

Good luck to all.

jcchief

08-07-2002, 12:18 PM

Nice to see that I am not the only one out there waiting at the computer. I have worn out the refresh button on the forums.

After word got out that we recieved the 1199 and the 5 questions, I would hate to tell the staff that we got the dear John letter.

I hear that the Senators won't even get the info until Thursday.

Lon

ffmedic1161

08-07-2002, 12:43 PM

I'm sure theres alot of us sitting and waiting to hear something. At this point in time anything would be good. The agony of waiting gets harder and harder every day.However,i like to think that either way it goes,i have succeeded. Theres alot of departments in my area that are in worse shape then mine that didnt even apply for anything. I'm sure that any department can use funding of some type for something. The daily operating expense is getting higher and higher every year. I've been successful with the rest of the departments that have applied. Why? Simply because i tried.Congratulations to all those that applied for Grant Money. Take pride in yourself in knowing that at least you attempted. OK back to the agony of waiting. Good luck to all and BE SAFE

Almarante51

08-07-2002, 01:12 PM

Let's not forget that FEMA said it would take 7-10 days to send out this wave of 'Dear John' letters. *sigh*

Andrew

PeteLO655

08-07-2002, 01:35 PM

FF, I agree totally. The big guy helps those who help themselves. If you don't try, you stand no chance of getting anything. I certainly don't want to hear anyone in my area crying poverty if you didn't even try. I also commend all who attempted this task. There is/was a load of work to be done for this. I know I learned quite a few things in the process of researching my facts, figures and so forth. I worked on it for about 5 or 6 months. All the guys in my company did not want to approach it because they felt the scales were tipped in everyone elses favor. (meaning political associtions). I said what the heck, let's give her a shot anyway. Now I sit here everyday with cramped fingers, crossed eyeballs and all my guys can't stop asking me about it. I don't know what I am going to tell them if/when we don't get it?

Good luck to all.
Stay safe,

Pete

ncvfc17

08-08-2002, 08:26 AM

I cannot believe there have not even been any leaks so far! Is this FEMA or the CIA!!! The waiting is killing me. I have re-read out narrative 10 times this week alone. Each time I find things I could have explained better. This is going to drive me crazy.

Just had to vent.

Good luck to all.

jcchief

08-08-2002, 09:18 AM

If it were the CIA, the whole list would have been on the morning news.

LDS

TLFD40

08-08-2002, 09:32 AM

This is great!!!! I thought i was the going crazy, some of you fellars gotta get that Prozac script from your doc... I would almost feel better if they sent me the Dear John letter. My phone has not stopped ringing from the Chief and some members. Of course they are asking if the eXt or the 1199a tell tale signs are on our app (ROFLMAO):D Okay, maybe today is the day, then i can sit back and worry about next years, but something in the back of my head says hold on you still have a chance. Here's a true scenario: Three Depts within a half an hour drive: 1 South, 1 East and 1 West have received grants from the last round, how would you feel your chances are?????????

jcchief

08-08-2002, 09:42 AM

I am so anxious they had to change the locks on the valium at the station. (Just Kidding)

It has created some anticipation around here. We got the 1199 & the questions then all went quite. We also have the ext thing on our application. I cannot walk into the station without getting the question.

I understand that the Senators get notice today and the list goes out later in the week. Has anybody heard differently?

LDS

jmkfire

08-08-2002, 09:56 AM

All quiet on the Mid-Western front!

ffmedic1161

08-08-2002, 10:11 AM

Coffee,Chocolate,and waiting for any kind of news. What a bad combination that is huh. So is this a case of NO News Is Good News or is it just wishful thinking. Hard one to answer and one that i'm sure we've all pondered at least once(every 10 minutes).Well thought i'd post a note that alls Quiet here in the lost land of West Virginia. Good luck and BE SAFE.

ffpm43

08-08-2002, 10:16 AM

Remember sitting around the station on a abnormally quiet day? Then some stupid probie says..."Geez its quiet isnt it? Aren't we due for one?" Im getting that feeling, hopefully its a good "hit" today!
Quiet in Illinois for now. Good Luck to all!

PeteLO655

08-08-2002, 12:23 PM

Quiet in Central Pa. Nothing new here. We did not receive anything of any meaning from FEMA. I too get bombarded as soon as I enter the station. We had a company meeting last night and the meeting was extended by half an hour with the guys asking me all kinds of questions about the grant and our chances.

I pulled a "Schultz"- "I know nothing.":)

They didn't wanna hear that. I feel bad not being able to tell them anything, especially when this is the golden egg we need right now.
As many of us do.

Gosh, need to go for a smoke. And coffee. And Prozac. And.....

Good luck all.

Pete

HazMan

08-08-2002, 12:26 PM

Just waiting for that "you've got mail" to echo through the house last night. Felt like when I was 5 years old on Christmas Eve.

Tried counting sheep.... was working until the sheep started jumping the fence with new airpacks and PASS devices on. Then this evil Senator voice would cry - "No news is good news, right? hahahaha" and I would wake up in a cold sweat.

jmkfire

08-08-2002, 01:43 PM

Makes me feel better now knowing that I'm not the only one with butterflies and lack of sleep.:p You hear something on the roof but you don't know if it is Santa or the Mr. Grinch!
Good Luck!
Still nothing here.

timm1960

08-08-2002, 02:24 PM

STILL WAITING and WAITING and WAITING.......

Fire Possum

08-08-2002, 02:36 PM

None of our departments or officers were going to apply. I took it upon myself to "shoot the moon" and submit one. Now, I, too, am called by everyone including the county commissioners to see if we have heard anything. If we are turned down, it will be my fault for not hiring a professional grant writer. Durn if I do, durn if I don't. The Commish is even holding up our budget review for next year pending the outcome of the grant application.

Almarante51

08-08-2002, 06:06 PM

Maybe I should have included in the narrative that this grant had to be awarded because it was a severe risk to the grant submitter, because he might suffer a heart attack if it wasn't.:rolleyes:

. o O ("-blah- -blah- -blah- ...It's just a grant")

("Next year, YOU fill it out...") O o .

timm1960

08-09-2002, 10:43 AM

Has anyone received or heard of anyone getting the Dear John letter? :rolleyes:

PeteLO655

08-09-2002, 12:37 PM

Has anyone found out if the letters will be emailed or will they be actual paper letters?

Holding and hoping,

Pete

lindengunny

08-09-2002, 12:42 PM

Pete,

last I read they would do everything via email if that was how u submitted - otherwise it would have to be snail mail as they stated they are not going to make phone calls.

John

Phil4601

08-09-2002, 05:40 PM

Hi All,

We got our official Dear John e-mail today. :mad:
Needless to say we are quite disappointed.

Those of you who got the YES and got a positive grant request may I ask who filled out your application. An accountant? Banker? Lawyer? Maybe the office of your Representitive to Congress?

Anybody have the key to the secret?

I'm at a loss. Maybe like a lot of you. But this program sure does not seem to be helping the very little guys.

If I sound P.O.ed, you're right!

ffmedic1161

08-09-2002, 05:46 PM

Phil4601

I'm sure you are disappointed at not getting a grant award. But you should take pride in knowing that you at least Tried. As stated in a previous post. I feel that i have already succeeded with this Grant process by applying for one. Theres alot of departments that didnt even try. Sorry to hear that you didnt get an award and i hope you'll not be discouraged and try again next year.

jcchief

08-09-2002, 06:27 PM

Sorry to hear that your department did not get funded. You should take pride in your efforts and start looking forward to next years application process.

As to the question about who wrote the applications for the sucessful departments? I did my own and just got funded. I have applied for several grants but have taught myself how to get the job done. By the way, I have got turned down for many more than I have recieved. I hear that in the biz of grantsmanship, a 25 % sucess rate is considered pretty good.

Please also remember that there is a lot of other funding comming down the pipe. With the new stress on WMD and domestic preperation you are by no means left hopeless.

One tip that I may offer is to get several people within the department to collaborate on the narrative portion of the application. If you wish, pass it by an English teacher for a final proofread. Be sure to detail how you plan to manage the money, include plans for audits by a CPA etc...

LDS

PeteLO655

08-09-2002, 07:44 PM

Phil,
Sorry to hear a PA company losing out. I am sure I will be joining you soon. We are also a small PA company. I wish you good luck for next year. Don't be afraid to talk to your congressman with your disappoinments. He can also help you locate other sources of funding as well. Municipal grants, etc...Remember they work for us, never the other way around. ;)

Chin up lads,

Pete

webteam

08-10-2002, 01:28 AM

Those of you who got the YES and got a positive grant request may I ask who filled out your application. An accountant? Banker? Lawyer? Maybe the office of your Representitive to Congress?

Phil

Sorry to hear your department get funded, but realize that many departments who need funding will not get it. And some who others may feel don't deserve it or already have enough money, will. You shouldn't be discouraged though as the grants aern't going anywhere and should only rise in funding next year.

As for your question, a poll conducted by Firehouse.com earlier this year showed that more than 95% of those who stated they submitted grants had a member or employee of their department complete the application.

We encourage you and anyone who gets these first waves of turn down letters to read the Turndown FAQ recently issued by USFA which explains why you they may not have made this year's rounds.

The FAQ can be viewed at
http://www.firehouse.com/funding/fireact/2002/0801qa.html

WebTeam

ffemt1

08-11-2002, 12:02 AM

I checked out the page you recommended and have a question. Can anybody explain "why" scoring is secret? Other than the fact that it is "the law". If it is "fair", is there something else to hide? Would we be satisified with the Super bowl, the World Series (assuming they play it this year), or the NBA finals being held behind closed doors? Where are the checks and balances in the process? Just asking. :confused: :confused: :confused:

Phil4601

08-11-2002, 09:45 PM

Please let me begin by thanking you all for your kind words of encouragment. I appreciate being able to exchange ideas here. Also thanks to the web team for the link. I will be sure to check it out.

Now that I have had a few days to cool my jets I think I can speak with a clearer mind.

I am certainly aware that many, many, worthy, valid requests for funding will not be approved in this year's version of the FIRE Act Grants. I took on the responsibility of filling out the application and doing the research for our small volunteer fire company. So maybe I took the rejection notice too personally. :(

I am an assistant chief in my company so I guess the chief and I, along with our other officers will have to sit down and explore the possibilities for next year. We may ask for funding for the same projects because there is no way we can purchase 15 new SCBA and the other items we requested without the grant money.

I too attended a class at our county fire school pertaining to grant writing. I'm thinking that maybe consulting some local experts next year may not be a bad idea.

To all of you who also got your grant request rejected, I'm sorry. We are standing in the same puddle. And to those of you who were looked favorably upon, CONGRATULATIONS! :D Spend your funds well.

Take care all.

jbrandy

08-12-2002, 01:15 PM

I understand that some "Dear John" emails have gone out. Next question, did all 7,500 go out last week?
As firehouse stated, "At the same time as hundreds of calls were being made letting Departments know they received their awards, the first wave of some 7,500 turndown notifications was also going out." Can we swipe or brough and count our blessings if we didn't get the email yet or are rejections coming every hour??? To those who got the bad news-my heart is with you. Although we take offense personally-the real loser is our communities. However, tommorrow is another day and we will just have to work harder.

timm1960

08-12-2002, 01:22 PM

The Dear John e-mails are expected to go out over 7-10 days.

Sorry, but they are making the waiting the hardest part.

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

Any new letters received today?

jboczek

08-12-2002, 05:45 PM

Dear John, that is. Congratulations to everyone that did not get the e-mail today. I really thought we had a shot at a grant this year, but it wasn't to be. We had the eXt after our phone number, too.

5pts384

08-12-2002, 11:30 PM

Got our "dear john" this evening:( Another year of "home-made" equipment and blue jeans and "T" shirts:( Good luck to the rest of you:D

timm1960

08-13-2002, 12:21 PM

Sorry to hear you didn't receive better news Myron Pierce.

You would think that with todays technology, all FEMA would have to do is push 1 button and send out the first 7500 Dear Johns.

Why should it take so long and cause all the tension?

GOOD LUCK EVERYONE!

WHAT DO YOU THINK WEBTEAM?

TLFD40

08-14-2002, 09:36 AM

to inform you thanks but no can do... Just got our letter this AM. Very discouraged and P$@%%ed off, won't do any good though. Will keep looking for alternate sources of funding. I think next year i will put in for a $1.00 granmt for a paper clip. Sorry just my bad attitude showing. Good luck to everyone. There is a sense of relief that i am feeling now also.........

famfox1800

08-14-2002, 01:01 PM

Could anyone who has received a dear john letter please tell me in what form was it? e-mail, snail mail, phone call etc....? We haven't heard anything, good or bad, concerning our application.

webteam

08-14-2002, 02:56 PM

If you used the electronic application, they more than likely will come via emaill to the main profile e-mail address.

WebTeam

orms

08-14-2002, 06:56 PM

I also recieved my Offical Dear John letter this morning. I would be interested in hearing who wrote the applications for this grant. I am a little in how I feel right now. I'm happy because I never did this before and think I made it to the third round. However I'm mad that I like others spent so much time to get rejected.

I will also be doing this again next year. I will be making some changes to how I do it and maybe will get lucky. I want to say good luck to the departments waiting to hear your fate, and congradulations to those who have recieved mrants.

ORMS
FIREFIGHTER/EMT

Flochief

08-14-2002, 09:13 PM

Guys,
Please , Please keep your spirits high and keep studying for next years grant. I know its tough and the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. But please remember good things happen if you are patient!!
I hope this will help to cheer some of you guys up!!
Just think 3 years ago there wasn't a fire grant.

BFD101

08-14-2002, 11:15 PM

Just got back from playing in the water at a fire meeting and checked my e-mail and there it was...thanks, but no cigar. Well, I'm glad I didn't have to wait until Christmas to find this out. I guess it's on to plan B...no, wait, this was plan B...hmmmm....pancakes anyone?

jspotts3

08-15-2002, 09:35 AM

WELL WE SEE THAT FEMA WORKS INTO THE EVENINGS. WE HAVE JUST JOINED THE ELITE RANK OF DENIAL. I GUESS WE'LL TAKE THE BETTER LUCK NEXT YEAR!!!!! I HOPE ITS THERE. FOR ALL OF US IN THESE RANKS KEEP THE FAITH. TO ALL OTHERS CONGRATS, AND BEST OF LUCK TO THOSE WAITING.

ALLWAYS VOLUNTEERING :)

HUMANE FIRE CO. #1 OF POTTSVILLE, PA.

islander237

08-15-2002, 01:30 PM

Despite a big effort and lots of research, we were "Dear John'd" last year and no word yet this year. I know too well how frustrating it is when you have a real need, demonstrate it, are are then denied.

Many dept's have been asked to fill out questionaires and/or the 1199a form. Has anyone been turned down that was asked to do either of these things?

Still waiting one way or the other...

OleBoots94

08-15-2002, 01:58 PM

SNEWMAN,

Just from info here, I don't think any Dept. that filled out the 5 part questionaire has been turned down (?). Not sure about the 1199a forms. Am pretty sure the "eXt" means nothing as far as funding or not funding.

HOWEVER,

The boat just got rocked, with the veto, so who knows whats next?

toddmcbr

08-15-2002, 06:26 PM

I heard today that FEMA has finished sending out the first batch Dear John letters.

Has anyone else heard this?

Todd

Almarante51

08-15-2002, 06:44 PM

Where did you hear this from?

toddmcbr

08-15-2002, 07:07 PM

Form our fire equipment rep/salesperson.

TM

mjboom

08-15-2002, 08:30 PM

Hello Webteam, and anyone else who can weigh in on this question,

Is FEMA done with the first round of Dear John's?

Also, can our US Senators and/or congressman shed light on the status of our application? Is it worth(risky) asking all of them for info as has been suggested in other forums here?

Callihan

08-15-2002, 09:34 PM

The wait is definitely tough. I certainly hope they would put out a press release to ease the minds of those of us who have made it so far. I know I'm getting more nervous as the days go on, and it could be months before any end is in sight...not that I'm complaining.

ncfirecapt

08-19-2002, 11:49 AM

We Got OURS !!! (Monday morning on E-Mail)
No, not the $$$ ...the dreaded letter. Frustration is the only word I can think of. Frustration from wasting time looking at lists and checking mail. Not as upset as not getting money as reading some on the list that did. I know there are more needy fire departments than some in NC that got money...and some got ssooooo much $$$$$. Oh well wasted a whole summer but not again....I am through with the Government (until next spring :rolleyes: )
God I Love This Country !!!!

Callihan

08-19-2002, 07:39 PM

Fema had stated that the 7,500 turndown letters would go out in 7 to 10 days. It seems to be going on forever. Anyone have any insight as to when these letters will end?

jkb3466

08-20-2002, 10:13 AM

yes we too where turned down. don,t know why. we applyied for a fire boat our exsisting one is a 1966 trihaul that should become a reef. we had 2 senators and a congressmans support and needed a new boat not wanted. i,m writing a letter to fema under the freedom of information act i am entitled to know what we scored and why. If i do not recieve the information i request frtom them i will sue them to pay for our boat. while iam waiting for the red tape reel to run out i am going begging to ever corner of the USA. Maybe if we stop sending money to other countries we could take care of our own country.

islander237

08-20-2002, 10:49 AM

We asked last year under FOI to see our scoring for our denied application, and that FOI request was rejected. We made a second FOI request to see 4 funded applications in our state for what we knew to be the wealthiest communities - just to see how it was done. We recieved them, and found that 2 of the grants funded diesel-exhaust systems for fire stations under the firefighter safety category. This was dissapointing considering our request for bunker gear and air packs was denied.

We applied again this year and are still waiting, and trying to stay optimistic despite the politics that are involved in the granting of awards.

CTfirefighter

08-20-2002, 12:37 PM

I haven't heard anything from FEMA yet, but we didn't apply for what we most needed.
As an oceanfront community with a commercial fishing fleet and lots of pleasure craft, we thought we needed a fireboat too, which we don't have period right now despite about $3 million in boats within our district.
I started thinking we were going to apply for the much needed boat, until our Congressman advised us that his Upper level FEMA contacts in Washington DC said that fire boats are NOT an established objective of the program!!!
That may be why you got rejected.

ncvfc17

08-20-2002, 04:22 PM

Unfortunately, we received our Dear John e-mail last night...

Oh well, all I can say is that I hope the department's that receive the grant really need the money. We are lucky enough to have a tax base to pay for most of our needs here in NJ. However, we applied for the grant in order to equip a regional RIT without stripping our company of it's equipment. We were even soliciting the utility companies in the area for a surplus van or something to use as a response vehicle should we obtain the grant.

I am sure that many out there are looking for the bare bones basics and to you I say, good luck!

Good luck to all still in the hunt and to those that have received a grant this year! May the equipment that it provides save a life or keep one of you out of harms way.

Stay safe.

jcchief

08-20-2002, 05:26 PM

In my opinion I don't think that filing a FOI request is the best way of dealing wiht the problem. While it is distressing to get Dear John'd, I think that the fire service as a whole needs to be praising FEMA for its efforts.

If elected officials start seeing negative fallout from the grant process, their support may waiver next year. If they only get accolades from those awarded and bad feedback from those who don't there will be a 3 to 1 ratio of people complaining to FEMA and or Congress. And don't think that your complaints to FEMA are not noted by elected officials.

No the process is not perfect. Yes this is the first time the nations fire service has banned together to accomplish serious funding. Lets not screw it up.

Respectively,

LDS

ncfirecapt

08-20-2002, 07:24 PM

jcchief
I agree with you that the process isn't perfect and I hope it continues and is improved....on the other hand every applicant can name departments in their respective state that got a grant while a "needier" dept. was turned down. My department is in the middle, meaning the money would be nice but we will survive...just replace older equipment further down the road.
I also have mixed feelings because this is "our" money all of us pay taxes and I see locally money going to departments a lot better off than others I know personally that were turned down.I almost wish they would scrap the whole program and save tax dollars ...but politicians will only spend it somewhere else(can we spell Police?) so i guess we should shut up and hope for something next time.

You know they say if it ain't broke don't fix it........what if it needs fixin' just a wee bit??? Hang in there brothers and sisters
we still know who they are gonna call!!!

islander237

08-20-2002, 08:43 PM

IMHO, not all negative feedback is bad jc. "Constructive" criticism from those of us on the front lines can only improve the way this grant program functions. Last year there were some major problems, which FEMA acknowledged, and which were brought to their attention by grant seekers like all of us. The result is a smoother operating program this year - which even we in our department who are still waiting, acknowledge.

If there are problems this year, I believe that for the benefit of all fire departments it's our reponsibility to let FEMA know.

jcchief

08-20-2002, 11:51 PM

No argument that you have the right to make constructive suggestions. Just be sure to be upbeat and appreciative for what has been accomplished. You should see the way other grant programs are handled. In comparison we have a great thing going.

I just hope that we don't shoot ourselves in the foot.

LDS

afdchief

08-21-2002, 10:48 AM

Does anybody know if all of the initial Dear John letters have been sent? Will FEMA say when that part is done. Just curios if we can take a breath yet.

Almarante51

08-21-2002, 01:06 PM

You might not be able to breathe until the grants are all done being distributed.

jboczek

08-27-2002, 01:23 PM

I really do think there's a problem witht he grant system. Maybe it's in the initial questions that were computer graded, I don't know. I just heard about a dept. close to me that was awarded a grant for a pumper/tanker. This dept. has a 150,000 / yr budget, 3 pumpers, a brush truck and a walk through rescue, none of which is over 20 years old. Their chief didn't expect to get anything, but they did. Congratulations to them.
We have a 40,000/yr. budget, 3 engines, the newest of which is a 1973 model, 500 gpm. We do have a 1980 tanker. Maybe that was the problem. I'm guessing we didn't get to the narrative stage of the process since we already got our rejection notice.
Anybody else notice something like this happening?