Should women meet same requirments as men?

[Gasoline]

Should female firefighter candidates be required to meet all of the same written and physical requirments as males during the hiring process?

[NCRSQ751]

Gasoline you must be new to these boards.. Firefighters are firefighters. The standards should be the same for all firefighters - period.

I will admit that in my 15 years in emergency services I've met more than one female (and male of various shapes, sizes and colors) that didn't belong. They couldn't cut it, didn't want to cut it or were simply there for all the wrong reasons.

Those people should be weeded out, or at least put in roles that suit what they can do (PIO, medical, rehab, logistics) so as not to endanger the rest of us.

The women that post on this board have always said they expect no special treatment or standards. They want to be treated as equals, and given the same amount of respect - what they earn.

[Gasoline]

Not everyone agrees with you. I have two examples of lower standards on my dept.

[captstanm1]

This topic has come up many many times and it causes ugliness and anger and violence among the forums.

But....Whether we agree or not was not the question I don't believe..

Should standards be the same?? (RIGHT??) In my opinion the answer is yes. (agree or disagree was not an issue). I am a supporter of women in the fire service so don't start slamming me ladies. If the testing and hiring processes are performance based and related to the job requirements, then certainly....all should be equal.

[NCRSQ751]

Actually Captain I think we all do agree...the feeling I get from gasoline's last post is that there are some 'bad apples' in that department that are not appreciated.

If that is the case then it's too bad, whether those apples are female, male, green, red or golden delicous - they should all be of the same quality. If they aren't, one could end up a fried apple.

[mark440]

If I were to apply for a clerical job, the women would take the exact same typing test as I. The job is the same whether a man or woman is sitting behind the desk answering the phone. Now, isn't a fire the same whether it is man or woman stepping off the rig? Yes. Should the test be the same? Yes. Does it matter if there 3 men and 1 woman or 3 women and 1 man fighting the fire? No, as long as they are all capable of doing the SAME job!

*Mark

[ADSNWFLD]

In my area the physical agility tests have turned into physical ability tests.
Basically, the test isn't graded and if you finish you pass. All it shows is that you aren't disabled. It is up to the department to train and condition a firefighter. It is the easy way out but the playing field is level.

I agree that we should make a minimum standard that everyone should follow. Someday, after all of the lawyers have been killed off, it may happen.

[Capt Stretch]

From a lady's point of view (not meant to suggest that I speak for the ladies everywhere!) - same requirements, please! Our company doesn't have separate standards and for that I am glad. Being one of the first women in our department, I don't feel that I would have ever been fully accepted if I couldn't do what a FIREFIGHTER is required to do. Once you can show that you can cut it when your fellow firefighter needs you, it breaks down the barriers and mistrust. Let's face it - to work together as a team everyone has to be confident that the person beside them can deal when a tough situation comes along. I want the standards to reflect that they can do the job, no question. That being said, are the requirements realistic for the job required?.....Hhmmm.:D I like the idea of nationally recommended fitness and agility requirements. State police, military, and other agencies have them. It certainly would provide some expectations as to what is required up front and potentially eliminate soem of the 'discrimination' haggles.

[andigirlff]

Does anyone know of a fire department that has a separate standard for females? How does the standard differ?

[LouisianaMedic]

Pretty much everyone agrees on the same standards for both men and women and why you may ask. The work is hard, tough and demanding.. It doesn't depend on your size, but how you are able to handle yourself in a life threatening situation... I always believe one should be hire based on skill, knowledge, and ability.. top of the class so to speak, I don't care if that is a women or man.. Which ever is best for the job... Not have 2 standards, some of us remember when businesses had to hire so many women, black, hispanic, etc.. Not because they were better qualified, but because they had to.. And they didn't last long at that job either..

Hire the best for the job... No double standards.. people will get killed if they lower the standards...

When a women earns the respect of the other people in the department and they earn the respect by doing their jobs to the best of their ability. They are pretty much in for life.

The department I belong to for a long time frowned on female fire fighters and the ones that joined didn't last long, but so did some of men with the same attitude... Now they have women and so outperform the men... You have to have the right attitude for this job besides the ability to do this job...

Two standards - I say no...

To answer your question andigirlff, none of the department I have been associated with or work with have separate standards...

[SGFDQueen]

I agree with the previous posts that state NO DOUBLE STANDARDS. Sure, this may make some women unable to become firefighters. That is why we women must work harder than the men, and this makes us tougher.
I argued with by brother (my sibling who is a FIREMAN, his words, not mine) and he says, "Sis, I don't trust you in a fire with me. You wouldn't be able to pull me out of a fire if I go down." And I replied, "Brother, I don't know of any firefighter that could pull your 290lb butt out, but I would die trying."

I'm all for the CPAT.

[AnneThomas]

wouldn't it be swell if the test actually was based on what you did? (Referring to the CPAT test) I totally disagree! I think the CPAT test is the best physical test developed yet for the reason that is DOES test what firefighters actually do. When I first started testing for firefighting jobs, I suffered through all sorts of physical tests that are obviously designed to test for brute strength and size (at male standards). I knew I could do the job (firefighting), but I couldn't military press 90 lbs (which is what one test required). Another test required me to bench press 150 lbs. I can't. I can bench press my own bodyweight, but that wasn't good enough. So when I finally got the the California CPAT I was thrilled. I think it is the most realistic and fair test out there!

[mickeytreet]

I think you need to explain to all of us what point you think Anne is missing since I don't get it either. You are complaining about the test you are trying to pass for not being based on what we really do as firefighters, yet at the same time you are suggesting Anne doesn't meet "firefighting standards" because she can't bench press 150 lbs.

wouldn't it be swell if the test actually was based on what you did?

Are you saying that these weight lifting tests are more closely based on what we really do than your 11 evolution test. I've done both test types too and I totally agree with Anne. If you can't bench 150 lbs - what does that mean? It means you can't bench 150 lbs. That's pretty pitiful if you're a 200 lbs male, but what does it mean if you're a 130 lb woman. Benching your own body weight (male or female) is a common standard among weight lifters. A woman can be a tremendous athlete and still not bench 150. Can you? I sure can't, yet I passed the CPAT with time to spare. I bet all the guys that failed the CPAT could bench 150, but they couldn't climb stairs, pull hose or raise ladders fast enough. Which firefighter would you want as your partner. The woman that can only bench 100 but passed the CPAT or the guy that couldn't pass the CPAT but can bench 300! Which more closely tests "firefighter standards". What kind of test do you want?

[rainymedic]

I am female and I think there should be no difference.
Like somone mentioned earlier, If a male was to be applying for a clerical job he would not be taking a different typing test.
I think it should be excalty the same.
Same wts... same times.... same testing.

[bfd1071]

I came on the job with three females, was told when we entered drill school that you have to complete every evolution. 36 of us started, 33 of us raised the fly section of the 40. 36 of us graduated. Did the requirments change? I think so. Should they have? Hell no, cant do it? Join the police department.

[manofire2]

I'ld like to take this one step further. Should a 'posting' (the term competition is no longer politically correct because it implies competing) be graded competitively. In other words if you have 20 persons being hired should you be able to hire the 20 best qualified or should you be able to chose subjectively 20 persons from a pool of those qualified. As I have stated before, as a taxpayer, I believe I am entitled to the "best" fire service my tax dollars can provide. That service is faceless, colourless and, has no gender. Until fire depts. testing is made tatally objective we will continue to have these discussions. If after 'objective' hiring processes your department consists of all green hermaphrodites then so be it, it is a FAIR hiring. As long as there are subjective means of hiring, you will have abuse and that abuse weakens the fire service.

[mickeytreet]

I believe I am entitled to the "best" fire service my tax dollars can provide.

Yes - you are! However, the best athletes do not necessarily make the best firefighters. Firefighting is a lot more complicated than just strength and stamina. It requires a high level of mental and emotional strength and stability. I've faced far more mental challenges than physical on the job. A certain minimal level of physical abilities are necessary, but there is little evidence that extreme levels are any benefit. In fact there is one study - I'll send you the source if you like - that found that firefighter candidates that scored the highest on a physical agility exam did not perform better than the candidates that just barely passed. That's why the physical test is just one of several areas that are tested in order to rank candidates. Though there are improvements to be made, I think these "evolutions" tests like CPAT do a good job of finding out if the candidates have the minimum skill levels to move on. I'm completely against giving female candidates extra points or allowing them to pass a physical agility test when they can't do one element.

For Kristen - I agree that firefighting is done in teams, however I can't see how you could test that for employment. I would worry that some members would "carry" another weaker member through. Perhaps the closest thing to what you want is done by a large department near me. They have no physical standards at all before academy. The candidates are judged during academy by their instructors as they learn firefighting skills in the ways we actually do them. For instance, they have to raise a ladder, but it's done as a team of two. They raise it once with one candidate raising the fly, switch roles and do it again. Not being able to raise the fly by the end of academy would be grounds for dismissal. When they rescue a dummy in a building or down the ladder, they do it in teams. But they can't just have the strongest of the group carry the bulk of the weight while the others "help". Everyone must take the toughest job at some point and if he/she can't do it, they are dismissed. There is nowhere to hide. Personally I'd rather take a test all by myself so I'd be completely in control of the outcome. I'd also want to know ahead of time (before going through academy) if I had what it takes physically. Passing the CPAT was a great confidence builder for me and earned me respect with my male colleagues. It's tough, but so is the job.

[bfd1071]

"I've faced far more mental challenges than physical on the job. A certain minimal level of physical abilities are necessary, but there is little evidence that extreme levels are any benefit."

Mickey....I disagree. I find this job far more physical then Mental. If you do not have strength you can not perform alot of the functions as a firefighter. Dragging hose is physical, opening the roof, also physical, forcing doors, opening walls and ceilings, Performing a rescue of a heavy Uncon person. Mental has it's place, but if your lacking in the strength department, none of this will be completed. A good mental attitude will not open a roof or a door or perform that rescue. I agree it plays a part to keep you going, but you still need the strength

[Bones42]

Training officer's, Captains, Battalion Chiefs, and Chiefs all notice if someone is not "pulling their own weight" Based on what? If you don't give an objective test to all involved, you can't simply pick and choose who makes it and not. That would lead to way too many lawsuits. Your department (or area) has a test that is 11 evolutions. They are all fire related evolutions that are designed to test your skills/abilities. They don't want to know (at that point) how your teamworking abilities are, they want to know your abilities. From what I remember from your list, they are true to life activities that you may very well be doing alone at a fire. Yes, at fires, you never go alone and always have at least a partner, but what if your partner is the one you have carry/drag/protect? That's why they want to know if you can do it alone.

but it's not just about women! Absolutely correct. Standard test - same for male, female, anywhere in between.

[manofire2]

When I talk about "objective" testing, I don't just refer to strength testing. All aspects need to be tested in an objective manner. Strength, agility, mental skills as well. Hiring should be blind! Candidates should be nameless, faceless as I said and it isn't just women, it is anyone. The question was about lowering standards and if standards are lowered it weakens the department, period.

[LouisianaMedic]

I agree Man, with a lower standard of requirements could get someone hurt or even killed. I would admit some departments need to change their testing to meet the skills, such as bench pressing 150 lbs.. most people I know can't do that, but everyone needs to be the same just like man said all applicants with no name and a blind eye, may the best persons prevail... whether it be male or female...

Women and men should be all treated fairly and same in any department, in reality it doesn't happen, hopefully one day it will. This country was found on that all men are created equal, this includes women, guys...

Remember One nation under God....

God Bless

[AnneThomas]

man of fire2 if you have 20 persons being hired should you be able to hire the 20 best qualified or should you be able to chose subjectively 20 persons from a pool of those qualified.

I'm curious what you think of veteran's preference points. All vets get 10 points added to their score. In my department, that bumps them from the bottom of the list to the top. So we're forced into hiring people that scored significantly lower than others. No other group, be it females or racial minorities, get points added to their score.

[manofire2]

Anne T

It is my opinion that no groups should get preferential treatment. As I have stated before, there should be an objective means of testing and hiring based solely on the highest scores. The scoring should be blind and no points added for special interest groups. This does not mean that previous firefighting esperience should not be taken into account. However that should be taken into account before testing the same as education, work experience etc.

[bfd1071]

This is getting a little off the subject, but since it is up there I will post my thoughts. All men are created equal...I seem to recall reading that somewhere. At birth we are all the same, but it seems that certain race's and sex's seem to think differently. It should be changed that " all non minority males are created equal". With Affirmative action still alive in the US being born Non white gives you certain preferences, tipping the playing field.


slowly the NAACP are starting to lose more and more cases of reverse discrimination cases. They lost a few in Boston.

As for the Veterans...they are the only ones that deserve preference! When civil service was first created it was for Vets returning from war, to assist them with finding work. It was the countries way of saying thank you. Everyone has a chance to become a veteran....not everyone has a chance to be a minority or a female!

[fyrpwr]

i know i am posting this quite late but i do believe the standards should be the same i am a female firefighter and have been for 12 yrs i have been at stations where there were other women who just could not do the job and it made it very hard on all of us to have to pick up the slack, she eventually moved on to something else. there is a test that they have come out with in just the past year or so the new CPAT and it is the same for men and women and i can tell you it is not easy by any means it's almost like doing a mini combat challenge toned down just a notch or two. i know austin was one of the first depts to start using it in their hiring process austin, tx. and san antonio i believe just started this year.it's about as fair and unbiased as you can get. take care all and be safe:o :p

[lilred]

This question has come up a lot around these parts lately.

I am the only female member of a 30-member department, and the city's first female firefighter, so naturally people questioned my ability from the get-go.

I have made it clear, as has my chief, that I don't want or expect any special treatment. I am a team member just as everyone else on the department.

Besides, respect is earned, not granted. It's based on my ability to do the job and fill the requirements, just like anyone else. And I will and I do.

To expect otherwise of any female firefighter is not only an insult, it is dangerous, and I would never want any of my fellow firefighters to feel like I am a liability to the department instead of an asset.

We take care of each other, and we all have a job to do. Period.

That's my two cents. :cool:

[SonicFF]

I agree, everyone should meet the same standard. However the standards should be valid and realistic regarding a firefighter's job. Women shouldn't be expected to test in baggy men's gear and ill-fitting gloves and helmets. The test should be validated - which means that it must be studied to be sure that it produces the best candidates, rather than just act as a "weed-out" part of the process. If, after training, one firefighter who passed the test doesn't perform any better than the firefighter who didn't, the test is completely useless. I would be willing to bet that very few departments would have tests able to stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

Veteran's preferency is a sticky issue. No, not everyone has had the chance to be a veteran. In recent years there have of course been changes, but the military is another traditionally male stomping ground. It still is for some reason allowed to blatantly and publicly exclude women from certain jobs. Personally I wanted to join the military when I was younger, but I wanted to fly and at the time women weren't permitted to be pilots. Why should I join to serve my country if my country doesn't want me there? I'm all for veteran's preference for people who were drafted, but those who chose the military shouldn't get any special treatment. Since there is no more draft, the military is a career choice. Catapulting vets to the top of the list probably results in some unqualified people being hired. Being a military vet doesn't mean you'll be a good firefighter - and that's what we're all after, isn't it? The best firefighters?

There are countless examples of men getting hired by the fire service simply because their dad, or grandfather, or brother, or whoever was a firefighter. It's practically a tradition to make an exception for some captain's son - I just read a story about FDNY in which a guy wanted to join the dept because his dad was on, but he didn't meet the minimum weight standards. So the guys doing the weighing lied so that he could get hired. Luckily he went on to have a fine career, but he didn't meet the standards. This is significant not only to demonstrate that the fire service has a tradition of nepotism, but to show that the standards don't always mean what they should. I just can't believe that everyone in some of these "old firefighting families" is qualified for the job, but somehow they just all manage to get hired one way or another. No one ever questions that - but many believe women and miniorites only get their jobs because of their sex or ethnicity. The idea of reverse discrimination is just ridiculous - especially in the fire service. Face it, it's still overwhelmingly white male. Whoever said that women and minorities have a leg up is living in a dream world, IMO. If that were true we'd have a fire service made of women and minorites, rather than white guys. "Not everyone has the chance to be a minority" - oh please. If you saw a large group of, let's say, Guatemalan people, and you weren't Guatemalan, you wouldn't likely approach that group and ask to join. Groups that have no diversity indicate to outsiders that they are not welcome to join. When women and minorities see 50 white men and white men only on their local fire department, it sends a not-so-subtle message - Only White Men Welcome Here. That's where active recruiting of women and minorities comes in, in addition to fair and validated testing.

It's not so easy to walk into a situation where you are the only minority and try to get hired based on your skills. Then if you do get the job because of your skills, everyone thinks to themselves, he/she only got that job because s/he's Asian/a woman/Black/Indian, etc. I'd urge all the guys who believe in reverse discrimination to but themselves in a real situation where they ACTUALLY are the minority - put yourself in someone else's shoes, maybe then you'll understand.

[AnneThomas]

Well said. I agree with you on almost every point. Around here the veterans are getting the few job openings there are. I've had dozens of veterans apply with our department and not one has been a woman and I can only think of one minority. I remember considering joining the army, but they banned women from 40% of the jobs (all the ones I was interested). I went to college instead and that's the route most all the female applicants I've worked with have gone. Often they do well on the firefighter testing, but once you add in those 10 veteran's points, they're bumped too far down the list to even get an interview. We just finished our hiring list. A female made #6 on the list (highest a woman has ever made it). She would have been #1 if not for veterans points. Under the rule of three, we won't be able to consider her unless four positions open up, and I doubt that many will. It's just not right. The same thing has happened to countless minority (male) applicants as well. I've seen so many that have worked hard for years and would be great firefighters but they can't test high enough to get interviewed. I'm just so frustrated. Our department has two male racial minorites and two females and all we hired back during the dark ages of affirmative action when they were given extra points. I don't want to ever go back there, I just want NO ONE to get extra points for anything. Let's just level the playing field and let the best candidates get to the top of the hiring list!

[PSBuvens]

I am Firefighter/Operator/EMT in Louisiana, we-meaning men and women have to meet the same requirements set up by the local dept. I went thru the same skills in rookie school as the guys. We fight the same fire so it should be the same requirements. I didnot get any special treatment but I did get alot of encourgement from my dept. and community, because I am the first female to be a career firefighter.
psb

[E40FDNYL35]

1. Your *** is never a factor in a job interview.
2. Your orgasms are real. Always.
3. Your last name stays put.
4. The garage is all yours.
5. Wedding plans take care of themselves.
6. You never feel compelled to stop a friend from getting laid.
7. Car mechanics tell you the truth.
8. You don't give a rat's-*** if someone notices your new haircut.
9. Hot wax never comes near your pubic area.
10. Same work ... More pay.
11. Wrinkles-add character.
12. You don't have to leave the room to make emergency crotch adjustments.
13. Wedding dress $2000; tux rental $100.
14. If you retain water, it's in a canteen.
15. People never glance at your chest when you're talking to them.
16. New shoes don't cut, blister, or mangle your feet.
17. Porn movies are designed with you in mind.
18. Your pals can be trusted never to ask you, "So, notice anything different?"
19. One mood, all the damn time.
20. Phone conversations are over in 30 seconds.
21. A five-day vacation requires only one suitcase.
22. You can open all your own jars.
24. You can go to a public toilet without a support group.
25. You can leave the motel bed unmade.
26. You get extra credit for the slightest act of thoughtfulness. 27. If someone forgets to invite you to something, you can still be friends.
28. Your underwear is $10 for a three-pack.
29. If you are 34 and single, nobody notices.
30. Everything on your face stays its original color.
31. You can quietly enjoy a car ride from the passenger's seat.
32. Three pairs of shoes are more than enough.
33. You don't have to clean your apartment if the meter reader is coming.
34. You can quietly watch a game with your buddy for hours without ever thinking "he must be mad at me."
35. No maxi-pads.
36. You don't mooch off other's desserts.
37. You can drop by to see a friend without having to bring a little gift.
38. If another guy shows up at the party in the same outfit, you just might become lifelong friends.
39. You are not expected to know the names of more than five colors.
40. You don't have to stop and think of which way to turn a nut on a bolt.
41. You almost never have strap problems in public.
42. You are unable to see wrinkles in your clothes.
43. The same hairstyle lasts for years, maybe decades.
44. You don't have to shave below your neck.
45. Your belly usually hides your big hips.
46. One wallet and one pair of shoes, one color, all seasons.
47. You can "do" your nails with a pocketknife.
48. You have freedom of choice concerning growing a mustache.
49. Christmas shopping can be accomplished for 25 relatives, on December 24th, in 10 minutes.
50. The world is your urinal

[Devilfyter]

The standards should be the same for both males and females, without exception. If a female is doing the same job that I am doing, should she not be held to the same performance standards that I am required to meet.

[firechick76]

I guess that I am new to all of this and I have not yet even finished my Fire Science classes, so I am still a while off on the job looking. However I wouldn't expect the standards to be any different for me than they would be for a guy. We all have to accomplish the same job in there male or female. That leads me to believe that we should all qualify the same.

[hctroubleff25]

Of course they should. What I have found to be true is that once a woman gets into a department she then finds out that even though she met the same requirements, she doesn't get the same treatment as the men. This is my own personal experience.....and that of several other women firefighters that I know. But also know that men get discriminated against as well. It seems to me that most of the positions/responsibilities don't go to those most qualified, but rather to those most popular or liked by the higher ups in the dept. I have been on my dept. for just over 3 years and in that time have always been in the top 5-7 of the members for participation. It gets me nowhere fast. It does not matter because certain higher ups don't like me for whatever reason, but choose to discuss it amongst themselves rather than discussing it with me and allowing me to improve upon or challenge their concerns/issues. Most of what I have heard the issues to be are pretty ridiculous and unfounded, however, without good communication and leadership in a dept. nothing works. I think that as long as firefighters in general continue to allow these types of things to go on, that there will never be full equality for anyone, not just women in this service. I would love to think that there is a dept. out there that is actually run by adults......where you get promoted, accepted, etc. based on your skill, qualifications, and merits, and not based on your popularity, or some elses personal feelings toward you.

[fireboop3125]

Originally posted by NCRSQ751
Gasoline you must be new to these boards.. Firefighters are firefighters. The standards should be the same for all firefighters - period.


I may not be a firefighter yet but i am a fire explorer there are 7 girls and 5 guys in our post. All the girls do just as much as the guys the guys in our post just think of us as one of the guys.

[moocho]

Of course they should be the Same!!

When I was testing at different departments for full-time
fire, I did well as long as the physical tests were pass/fail.
The departments that used the time of the PAT as part of the overall score, I did badly, simply because I, as 150 lb. woman was competing against guys twice my size and 1/2 my age. So even though I could pass the demanding timed test, my name was much further down the list.Then that department had to 'reach down' to get the minority classes it needed. I took my name off, because you know that any woman hired off of that list 'was only hired because she was female'. I had no desire to be hired like that, and since then have been hired onto a different department, the men know I can handle the job, and there are no questions about why I was hired.

Another thing, why is there a misconception out there that it is easier to get the job because I am a female? Taking the same tests as the guys should eliminate that, but everyone outside of the fire service told me I would be sure to get the job because of my gender. Not true.

Love this job!!!

[protomkv]

This is for HCtroubleff25,You ask are there any depts that are fair, I cant speak for any of the others, But I think my dept is as fair as it can be, we only have two ladies out of a total of a 110 F/Fs but that is only because the girls that have tested havent made the cut, but as far as promotions etc go, our guys have to pass a written test, is succesful they then go on to an assessment center that is conducted by an independent company, success at this then gets you to an interview board. neither of our two ladies has gotten promotion yet, (they have only been in the dept 3 yrs. But I am certain that fairly soon we shall be getting a female captain, and in my book she sure deserves it

[Airborne]

Boy where to start.

YES THERE SHOLD ONLY EVER BE ONE STANDARD. I think that there should be Vet points, and no I do not belive that woman should be in combat. There I said it shoot me. This is not becuase I'm sexeist I think that there are alot of woman that would do our contry proud in a comabat zone. And I have meet alot of woman that would put men to shame but the truth of the matter is this. War is dirty, and young men, and young woman in highly stresfull conditions do not mix well. To be honest most of what would make it bad is not on the females side but rather on the mans. But there are alot of jobs in the military that woman can do, and unlike what was stated earlier woman can fly iun the military, and infact I know that there was at least one female fighter pilot, but I belive that she was killed in a traning accident. I'm all for woman in the military, but I do not think that having them in combat with the men is a good idea. NOT THAT IT IS THE WOMANS FAULT.

Sorry if I ruffled your feathers, I hope that I did not make to many enamies, but I can only speak from my experiances in the military and what I have seen.

[GramLinda]

Otherwise, it's not as big of an accomplishment, for one thing. A woman would feel like she wasn't a "real fireman," if women were allowed in with a lower set of requirements.

I'm currently in FFI training. I don't know if I'll make it, because I'm just not as strong or as resilient as I was. But I will certainly give it everything I have. And, if I don't make it, I'll have a lot more knowledge, and be able to help the guys more at a scene, where I'll function then more as a first responder.

I was in the Air Force--got out 20 years ago. I never wanted to go into combat, and never struggled against the regs that kept me out.

I don't want special treatment because I'm a woman, and the department I'm on is great in that the guys hand out the BS the same, no matter what gender you are. <snort>

We're a team, that's all there is to it.

Linda

[protomkv]

GramLinda,

If you want it bad enough, and give it 110 percent you will make it Good Luck I hope that you will make it. WE need good quality people, When are you due to finish the F/F 1 course?

[hctroubleff25]

Yes being a woman means that we often get stares, looks of shock, etc. My feeling is that as long as you pull your own weight, do what the others are capable of, and they know they can trust you to put your life on the line to save theirs, then you are a part of that dept. The bottom line is that we can do the job, we do the job, and we should be treated like we do it. I don't mind when people stare, make comments, etc. because I understand that the concept of female "firemen" (I personally only use the word or term firefighter) is very new or strange to most people. When it happens within my own dept. then I have a problem with it. I know there are a lot of female firefighters out there who do not pull their weight, don't do the job, etc. but I don't think that should affect me personally in anyway. Perception goes a long way in this profession......it is better to test someone, talk to them, and learn from them, and about them, than it is to judge them based on the fact that they have some different uuummm "equipment" than you do. Trust me I understand that women are built differently than men.....my back does NOT hurt after I take my pack off 3 hours later.....because of the shape of my body (hips and behind) I have an easier time wearing a pack then the men on my dept. There are some advantages to being a woman......but we should also be treated equally on the testing, physical agility, etc. Some things in this job just are.....like having to carry a 125lb. + person out of a house.....like having to stretch, roll, and carry hose...so we should have to meet the same requirements cause there are not different hose sizes for women than for me, therefore we should have to meet the same testing standards.

[GramLinda]

We're meeting once or twice a week. I expect to do well in the written testing, and hope to be able to pass the rest. I'll give it all I've got. We need as many members certified as possible.

There are two other women in the class, out of a total of about 48 firefighters, countywide. 14 from our department, including all 3 women.

I really enjoy the classes, and will miss them when they're over.

And I liked the point about the hoses and equipment not caring what sex you are--that's the truth. I don't expect to carry less than my fair share of the load.

[fieryred943]

:D To GramLinda...you go girl! If you want it bad enough you'll do what you need to do to get there. Good Luck. Don't know how old you are but I was 30 when I was hired. Out of 260 F/F there are 4 women.

As far as this post...talk about beating it to death. Doesn't matter if you are male/female, black,white,purple,green, brown...etc. As long as you can do the job, pull your weight, work as a team you should be there.

Firefighter, Fireman, FireWoman, FireChix, Fire...whatever I answer to any of them because that is what I do. I put my gear on the same way everyone else does.

Stay safe everyone

Red

[protomkv]

Just checked the results of the poll 71 yes, 1 no. So I guess the question now is was whoever voted no, male or female? seriously girls, I welcome all females to this profession. to me when we are working together we are all part of the team but I will still give you of the and the guys the courtesy of opening a door, saying please and thank you etc. but you still get to do your share of the work.

[manofire2]

I think we are all pretty much in agreement and I believe that the vast majority of areas do hire based on standards of equality. Another question though which perhaps is far more rellevent is whether that standard has been lowered to accommodate special interest groups, not just females. In my observation which in this case is far from scientific, it would appear that most places have raised that bar in terms of academics but lowered the bar for physical sandards. An argument could easily be made on the pros and cons of either.

[jce51cfd]

Yes.
Enough said.
Anyone who can do the job is entitled to the job.