CSR Entrants

[dfd3dfd3]

I havent had the opportunity to read the NFPA 1670 yet, unless they changed the requirments my understanding from OSHA 1910.146 is that an entrant for rescue needs to have a technical rescue awarness class and be first responder medical to qualify as being an entrant for rescue. Being competent is another issue. I would like to know if ur depts use only trained personnel at the entrant level or do u use technicians to make entry to effect rescue. I know nfpa states u have to have at least 5 techs to do a rescue but i dont think it says techs have to enter the hole. Best case scenario is u have enough techs were u can afford to send techs into the hole, but on my dept on a typical day ud get 3-5 techs to respond and the rest would be entrant level or less. So if u send techs in the hole u have untranied people on your rigging systems. My contention is that it is safer to have techs run the operation and rigging etc and to have entrants be entrants. The only prob with that is that most, not all, entrant level firefighters arent really excited about CSR and it shows in there competency level. But i just think that is an issue of training. So what is your definition or NFPA's standard for a rescue entrant. And would u rather have techs in the hole with entrants running ur rigging under the supervision of one tech. Or would u have entrants in the hole with techs up top? also, what do u think id the best way yo get interest from the entrants to being prficient with entrant skills?

[Techresq]

dfd3,
In your posting CSR entrants, you quote OSHA and NFPA regulation. To understand them you must understand each one. OSHA regulation are law, you can be sited and fined for noncompliance. These regulations are for general industry, and yes, the fire dept falls into that category. NFPA are recommendations for fire depts. Both are national recognized standards and fire depts. could be held to both in a court of law. Other standards that need to look at are NIOSH and ANSI.

First lets look at the OSHA 20 CFR 1910.146 regulation. It requires that anyone who enters a confined space for any reason must be entrant trained. The entrant must have the skill, knowledge and training to make a safe entry into a space. If you go to part k, it will talk about the requirements for rescue. Appendix F talks about the non-mandatory requirement for a rescue team.

If you look at the NFPA 1670 standard, you will see that it is for level of operation for organizations or departments. It talks about the different training for the levels of operations. The NFPA 1006 sets the standards for Rescue Technician. This standard sets the required training and evaluation requirements for technicians for all technical rescue disciplines. I did not fully understand this until I started the process of accreditation. As I work with a training institution for accreditation, I learn more and more everyday. You state that you need five technicians to do a rescue. I have read both NFPA 1670 & 1006 and I have not seen that requirement any place in the standards. The Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) sets the requirements for operation with NFPA. If you are going into an area that is IDLH just like in a firefighting, you must have a back up team (RIT). The entry and back up team are required to be trained to the same level. As far as having techs in the hole or up top to run the rigging, the regulation states that all persons will be trained in the operation that they are performing. If you look at the 1670 standard, you can make entry at the operation level for rescue under very tight guidelines. You can have rope rescue techs doing the rigging and confined space rescue techs entering the space for rescue. Remember that not all your people will be able or willing to make entry. Train those people as your rope team. If you try to force someone into the space, they can become part of the problem and not the solution. Training is the best way to make your people proficient in any operation. Remember you can lead a horse to water but you cannot make them drink. Try to build pride in your team and move forward. If I can help more, please feel free to E-mail me.
David Gerrer
Owner/Lead Instructor
Technical Training Solutions, LLC
www.TechTrngsols.org

[ADSNWFLD]

Another factor to consider is what kind of space you are entering. Is it a large tank with just limited means of egress or does the rescuer have to go through several baffles and different heights?

A basic confined space can be entered by an operations level rescuer, if it is more complex then a tech is appropriate.
The rescue sector should be a tech, as well as the safety officer. The attendant should also be a tech if possible. The enterant and back up should be a tech but for a simple space an ops guy would do.
Air quality could be a haz mat guy and may not need any CS training above awareness.
Equipment sector could be ops trained. Rigging should be your good rope guys. If the entry guys are paramedics so much the better.

By us IDOL (OSHA) looked at our sop's and gave us a green light, so as long as we follow our own sop's we are going to be just fine. Several departments by us have been fined for rescues so I'd discuss your plans with your local OSHA rep.

[dfd3dfd3]

Ive read the nfpa 1670 and that is what im getting also, that it is a guidline for departments and it leaves leeway to the AHJ. Someone told me about the needing 5 techs, i didnt find that either. My reading of 1670 is u will be operating at a tech level as long as u have techs running ur operation. You can have entrants at the awarness level and vertical guys doing rigging and still be operating at the tech level. Having everyone trained and more importantly competent is another thing. I was just trying to find someplace where it states techs have to be entrants, and i havent seen it unless im misreading something somewhere.

Weve had a tech team for around 4 yrs and an agreement with local industry for the same amount of time. Some guys lately have been saying that techs need to be entrants and i was trying to find where is says that, that is why i was posting the question.

[Techresq]

dfd2
You need to get the NFPA 1006 standard for the Tech requirements. It will address the skill and knowledge requirements for a Tech. I'm not sure what you are calling the awareness level. My understanding is that at the awareness level you can only do a non-entry rescue. You need to be at least at the operation level before you can enter a space for rescue, and at that level you can not move outside of the line of site of the opening. Also NFPA states that you must meet all federal, state and local safety standards. You need to check these standards, i.e. OSHA, your state regulations on confined space entry. To be at the Tech level your people have to be Tech trained. Currently there isn't qualification standards for any other level except for Tech. If you have any other question drop me an E-mail and I'll try to help you out.
David Gerrer
Technical Training Solutions, LLC
www.Techtrngsols.org