brush/quick attack/structure truck

[NCKSFIRE]

Our district is a rural district comprised of about 350 square miles. We are spread out over 3 counties. Have 4 stations. Thinking of applying for a grant for 4 new trucks. We handle alot of grass fires, an occasional house fire, vehicle fires, and provide run the jaws in one location for the local ambulance service. Looking at 2 ton 4x4 trucks with 250hp diesels and allison automatics. Want 1000 gallon poly tanks with quick dumps and 650gpm waterous pumps with volkswagen diesels. Trucks will carry roof and extension ladders and dump tanks. 11/2 hose and 1 booster reel. will also have booster and 11/2 lines at rider positions behind cabs. These trucks will also carry 4 scbas and spare bottles. Would like foam on as well. Anybody else got any ideas. I would like to see pictures if anybody has built one. We run 1 ton 4x4 duallys for brush trucks and usually run a 2 ton truck with them. Our 2 tons now are 2 wheel drive which works great when it doesn't rain. We don't have the money or need for a full time Class A pumper. After we get these trucks we are probably going to look at a tanker. Have none now. 2 ton trucks with 1000 gallons are the tankers now. Would also like comments on the Waterous 650 gallon pumps with Volkswagen Diesels.

[engel702]

ncksfire:

Try this link there are alot of other pics also


http://www.rescue-net.com/cgi-bin/Photos1/pconfig.pl?read=237

Stainless steel tank, deitz desiel air cooled pump motor, foam at all positions, we only carry two scba's but could carry more.
Terry

[Fire304]

Originally posted by NCKSFIRE
650gpm waterous pumps with volkswagen diesels.

Hu?

Had to read that twice, a VW engine? Maybe that's common where you are, but I'd make sure there was good service for it before commiting to a foreign engine. There are very good engines available from Detroit, Cat, and Cummins in your HP range, and the new MBE series by DD is actually a German block (Mercedes I believe, DD is owned by Dalmier Chrysler). Volvo is also a common block for light duty delivery trucks.

[Resq14]

I think for standalone pump/engines (i.e. not powered from the drivetrain of the vehicle), the VW is common for the larger GPM pumps. I've seen it a lot at least.

[bobsnyder]

Originally posted by NCKSFIRE

Looking at 2 ton 4x4 trucks with 250hp diesels and allison automatics. Want 1000 gallon poly tanks with quick dumps and 650gpm waterous pumps with volkswagen diesels.


At 8.3 lbs / gallon, you've already got almost 4.2 tons of water. Add the pump/motor weight, and you've got easily 5 tons.

Originally posted by NCKSFIRE

Trucks will carry roof and extension ladders and dump tanks. 11/2 hose and 1 booster reel. will also have booster and 11/2 lines at rider positions behind cabs. These trucks will also carry 4 scbas and spare bottles.


That's another 1/2 ton in equipment, at least.


Originally posted by NCKSFIRE

Would like foam on as well.


Another 1/4 to 1/2 ton?


Either I'm grossly overestimating the weight of this spec, or you've got some grossly overweight rigs now (do I understand that you're carrying 1000 gals on 2-ton chassis??). I get 5-6 tons in just what you have here, plus chassis and body weight, and you're easily looking at a 10 ton rig (gvw).

We've got a squad unit with 250 gals water, 250 gpm PTO pump, CAFS, and a variety of tools, with poly tank and rear body sitting on a 5 - ton F-350 chassis. That's less weight that you're proposing and I can tell you from experience that it's pretty close to its functional weight limit.

I don't take issue with your concept, but it seems you'll need a heavier rig than you anticipate. That may change your horsepower requirement, too.

I could be mistaken or be misunderstanding you somehow, but (if I'm not) it's something to condsider.

[NCKSFIRE]

When I say a 2 ton truck I am not referring to the GVW. The trucks we are looking at are Freightliner FL80's with a GVW of 33,000. A Ford F350 is a 1 ton truck. As for the Volkswagon diesel engine that is to drive the pump only, Waterous also makes a pump with a ford gas engine and a kubota diesel. The trucks will most likely be Cat or Navistar powered. Thanks for the input.

[bobsnyder]

>> When I say a 2 ton truck I am not referring to the GVW. The trucks we are looking at are Freightliner FL80's with a GVW of 33,000. A Ford F350 is a 1 ton truck.

OK - that clears it up. I'm just not well-versed in truck chassis terminology, I guess. Why the references to some measure other than GVW? Doesn't that get confusing? Just curious...

As an aside, the reason that gross overloading sounds so plausible to me is because I've seen quite a few horribly overweight rigs over the past few years. For example, I can remember a squirt I saw in a parade last year that was so overweight that it literally had its rear wheel wells riding less than 2 inches above the tires when it was standing still. Yikes.

[Fire304]

Originally posted by bobsnyder
Why the references to some measure other than GVW? Doesn't that get confusing? Just curious...

You know that bugs me too, I think it maybe a military thing, you know a "5 ton" or a "duece and a half" truck. A Ford F-350 crew cab is considered a "1 ton" truck, but it has a GVW of 11,000lbs, an empty weight of 5800lbs, and a payload rating of 5200lbs, clearly way more than 1 ton. Not sure why, its just that way its done. Now from the payload you must subtract all the liquids the vehicle carries, gas, coolant, and engine oil, your passengers, and then you have the actual cargo weight which works out to about 4000lbs, still nearly 2 tons.

[bfcf623]

We had a military 5 ton 6X6 and the nomaclature plate stated the 5 ton rating meant it could carry a 5 ton cargo off road without degrading the vehicle performance. Maybe that might explain the reference to "Tons".

[FireMedic38]

I agree with "bobsnyder", you are asking an awful lot of a single vehicle of that size. From my observations there are a lot of people out there that try to but two tons of **** in a one ton box. This may not be practical or cost effective. If you have problems with any portion of what you want to do, you loose your only response vehicle. Just my opinion