Firefighter Training Requirements

[Shafer607]

I am doing some research on the MINIMUM requirement for a brand new firefighter to be able to begin structural firefighting. I want to know what your state requires for training. I also would like to know what the MINIMUM requirement is to be a fire officer in your state.

[ff7134]

The state required that you have you 36 hr Firefighter card to be a structural firefighter. The person must be 18y/o and a HS graduate or GED.

As for officers, that is all up to the department. Most of the departments require the State Fire Company Officer I as a minimum. The State class is the same as the NFA Class. Some departments around me don't and they go by the "Good Old Boy" way. I know mine and a few others you must have the Company Officer III, and at least an Associates degree, for Asst. Chief and above at least a Bachelors.

Hope that helps, if you need anymore info email me.

[EdShanks]

Like ff7134 said - the bare-bones basic, to become a volunteer, is 36 hours. I believe career departments are required to have 240 hours. (I'm so darn old it was 200 hours when I went through it!). More and more volunteer departments are requiring the 240 hours of training, though, whether the state demands it or not.

I have yet to figure out why the requirements are so different - the fire doesn't care whether we're paid or volly.

[pfd3501]

Ed

As a chief of a all volly fire department, I can see both sides of the 36 hour issue

Should we have more training? Absolutely

How much is enough for a volunteer? That's the million dollar question.

In the 36 hour class you learn how to put on an air pack, basic fire behavior, basic pump operation, basically how to put the wet stuff on the red stuff.

Some of this goes back to how much time the volunteers have for training, and how much the departments have to spend on training them. If you think there is a big disparity in how schools are funded, you need to go around to different departments and see how they are funded (or not funded).

[firenresq77]

To be a Volunteer FF in OH, you need to have the 36 hour Volunteer FF training, which is basically enough to get you killed

To be a Part-time FF you need to have the Minimum of FF-I which is 120 hours. If you already have the 36 hour, there is a 84 hour class to bump you up to the FF-I

To be a full-time FF, you need to have the FF-II, which is 240 hours. If you have FF-I, you can take a 120 hour class to bump you to the FF-II

As was said earlier, the State does not require any specific courses to become an officer.

My dept. requires FF-I certification, EMT-B, 24 hours of leadership training, Hazmat Ops, must be in the top 50% of those attending runs, can't remember if there's anything else. Steve, Todd, or Joel, am I missing anything???

[ff7134]

You know after looking at the 36hr class (I took it awhile ago) their is no way that it is enough. It is just enough to get you killed.

Now before anyone gets their "underwear in a bunch" let me finish. I think that the minimum should be FFI. And I know that funding is a major thing...my dept is a combo dept so we have a little bit of everything. I know that when I started we didn't have a ton of money for training...I think the state should fund getting these guys with FF 1a up to FFI certs....and if they don't want to do that amount of training then you can't be an interior FF.

I still think that the biggest downfall to Ohio FF is the departments that really don't do alot of training period. I can think of at least 5 depts that worry more about having meetings and shoot the bull than training. They are going to be the ones most likely to not recognize flashover signs and ther basic fire-behavior warning signs.

I guess thats just my opinion.....

[Weruj1]

I fully support starting at the 1-B level and I keep hearing that soon that will be the standard........I do hope so.........volly or not. Back when I got on I was 18 and never really understood at that time when the instrictor said " I have taught you all just enough to get yourselves killed", I know I sat there and had no idea of the implications he mentioned, however as time goes on...........nothing could be farther form the truth ....

[ff7134]

Boy what an eye opener I had when I went to Reynoldsburg after having my 36. I sat their and thought "Why in the Hell wasn't I shown that???" Oh I remember.....we only had 36 hrs instead of 240. I have now sat through (2) 240 classes. Once at a local training school, and once down at the Academy. And other than better equipment....they were about the same. I say it shouldn't matter where you get your 240....because we all have to take the same test.

[WTFD10]

Jeff, I agree with your statement that continuing education is very important

I'm a big advocate for higher certifications for volunteers (even though I haven't made it to I-B or I-C yet :o ) and I started a thread on this very subject back when these state forums were first put up. Since then, I have changed my opinion slightly:

The Michigan county just to the north of me requires ALL of their firefighters to complete FFII (240) within 2 years of being hired (paid) or joining (volunteers).

That being said, my department (most of us only have 36 hours) can run circles around some of their departments on the fireground. And I don't mean to sound arrogant when I say that.

I feel the reason is we have required weekly 3 hour drills that build on what we were taught in the 36 hour class and much of the info taught in FFII is learned that way.

Yes, the 240 looks great on paper and inititally you will be much better trained than a 36 hour firefighter but you must have continuing education throughout your career.

Yes, FFI or even II would be great for volunteers but I now feel that a continuing education requirement similar to EMS would be even better.

[EdShanks]

pfd3501 wrote: "How much is enough for a volunteer? That's the million dollar question."

Chief, I respectfully disagree. The million dollar question should be 'how much is enough for a firefighter?' We do the same jobs on the same fire scenes. I know there are factors such as the time required, but two 3-hour evenings a week would have it knocked out in 40 weeks. I'll even go so far as to say that maybe the entire 240 hours isn't necessary for a small, underfunded department that sees little action, but 36?!?! With all that we're expected to do, that's just not enough time to even touch on what we're exposed to. When people don't know who else to call, they call the FD. We all respond to alarm drops of one kind or another, even if it's just a 911 call reporting someone's smoke alarm is sounding off. We're expected to know something about them - not necessarily how to reset a complex industrial system, but we should all have enough of a working knowledge so that we can make use of the information the alarm system gives us. And as cars change and more exotic options are available, anyone who responds to a car fire had better know what's going to kill or maim them if they don't pay attention. I remember when all you had to worry about was the shock-absorbing bumpers that, if heated to the point of failure, would shoot away from the car and take your legs off. Now there's the sodium azide that powers the air bags, there are some (only one or two, thankfully) that have charges like a .22 cal. blank integrated into the seat belt system, so that in the event of a wreck they fire and tighten up the belts, reducing passenger injuries,... And things like this are all before the other things a FD might do - MVA response, EMS calls, and so on.

Prior to my 16 years (currently) on my career department, I was a vollie for 6 years in a village department. The first fire truck I drove and pumped was a 1950 International, 750 gpm pumper. We also, at that time, had a 1959 Pirsch, a 1971 Pirsch (both straight-8s) and a 1976 Dodge 1-ton grass truck. Oh, and I can't forget the chief's favorite of the fleet - a 1929 Stutz pumper! I sure know what a limited budget and time constraints are all about. The full-time service isn't all that different in a lot of those areas.

I went through the 36-hour school in 1982, and the 200 hour class I took in 1988 covered things in depth that the 36-hour classes barely skimmed.

I just think 36 hours isn't enough time to teach a firefighter what he or she needs to know on the job. When the career classes went from 200 to 240 hours, the vollie requirements should have been raised too, I think.

[Ohiovolffemtp]

While many if not most departments require their part-time personnel to have the FF1 or FF1-B (120 hour) certification, it is NOT required by either state law or Division of EMS rules.

You must be 18 when you take the test for your FF1A, or any other FF certification (or EMT). However, you do NOT have to be either a HS grad or have a GED. Many education institutions require this, but neither state law nor division of EMS rules require it.

I've had to research both of these questions several times as a fire & EMT instructor.

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by Ohiovolffemtp
While many if not most departments require their part-time personnel to have the FF1 or FF1-B (120 hour) certification, it is NOT required by either state law or Division of EMS rules.

You must be 18 when you take the test for your FF1A, or any other FF certification (or EMT). However, you do NOT have to be either a HS grad or have a GED. Many education institutions require this, but neither state law nor division of EMS rules require it.

I've had to research both of these questions several times as a fire & EMT instructor.

OK, I'm going to have to find this, because I know I've seen it. The requirement for FFI is not a local thing. The HS Diploma/GED thing probably is......

[WTFDChief730]

Very well said WTFD10, On paper we all can agree that the 36 hr. course is not nearly enough to really train someone to do this line of work. To me, I look at the 36 hr. course as a basic intro to the fire service with just enough time to review some of the basic subject areas. Its what a department does as far as continuing their training of members that really makes the difference. Obviously I agree with you on the statement that we run circles around our volly brothers to the north who have to be trained to the FFII level, its because we take an aggresive proactive attitude in training our members every week for 3 hours. I always compare ourselves to the big city paid guys we are encircled by, only because I work for them too ;) , but working for both departments I feel we are just as good and just as knowledgeable as they are, the only thing we lax compared to them is on the job experience, they go to alot of fires and we dont. You cant beat on the job training. I agree with the continuing education, only because of those departments out there that rarely drill or just drill once a month, you have to keep your skills up, plus the fire service changes so much you just have too.

[WTFD10]

Well thanks Chief. See, I'm not always stubborn and bull-headed :D

I still want to get those certs though LOL

[Weruj1]

look at Ron go !!!!!!!!!!!

[ff7134]

I think if the state would make it mandatory for x amount of hour of training a month and that is had to be turned in to the state then you wouldn't need CE hours. That should be your department specific training. Hell I could go to a High Rise Fire Class for CE....but the likely hood of that happening in my area is 0!!!! But department training on drafting and tanker shuttle...that is something that I use at fires. I think that some (not picking on volunteers)departments are more concerned about their Cheese Sale money and the next fund raiser than the job that may get them killed due to they don't train. I asked a guy from another county that was in a class with me how much they train.....he said unless I go to an outside class (he pays for it)maybe 2-3 times a YEAR!!!!! Yet they have a business meeting once a week every week. And I do understand they need the money....but Christ you need to train too. You just have to have some type of priorities...my dept has volunteers and they train once a week for at least 3 hours. And alot of them come up if they can and train w/us at the station when we do our crew training.

Their has to be something...some way to improve the amount of training that is done. Because our lives and the lives of those we are sworn to protect depend on it.

[firenresq77]

Ohiovolffemtp - I don't know if this is exactly what I was looking for but.......


4765-11-11 Firefighter I.

(A) A program to train part-time firefighters shall require that participants successfully complete a fire training program of not less than one hundred twenty hours that meets all the objectives in the current NFPA standard 1001, firefighter I. The training shall commence and end within a consecutive twelve-month period.

(B) A program to train certified volunteer firefighters to the firefighter I level shall require that participants successfully complete a fire training program of not less than eighty-four hours that meets all objectives in the current NFPA standard 1001, firefighter I. The training shall commence and end within a consecutive twelve-month period.

and the definition of a Part-Time FF

(N) "Part-time firefighter" means a person who provides fire fighting services on less than a full-time basis and meets both of the following criteria:

(1) Is routinely scheduled to be present on-site at a fire station or other designated location for purposes of responding to a fire or other emergency;

(2) Receives more than nominal compensation for the provision of fire fighting services.


Am I wrong on this?????????

[UFD460]

Ohiovolemtp..better take a look at the Ohio revised code ..I think it says different..part time must be at least FFI..go to www.com.state.oh.us..then go to laws,rules and regulations

[UFD460]

try this www.com.state.oh.us/odoc/sfm/...its the state fire marshall's website

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by UFD460
Ohiovolemtp..better take a look at the Ohio revised code ..I think it says different..part time must be at least FFI..go to www.com.state.oh.us..then go to laws,rules and regulations



try this www.com.state.oh.us/odoc/sfm/...its the state fire marshall's website

The information I posted above is from either the Ohio Revised Code or the Ohio Administrative Code. (Sorry, it took awhile to find and i can't remember where I pulled it from)........

[pfd3501]

Ed and others

I agree that 36 hours is not enough

Is 120 hours enough but not too much?

Its in my plans to take the 84 hour class this year, but to start out at 120 hours? You'd see a volly chiefs insurrection :D
I'd like to see the beginning course bumped to about 60 hours, which would give another 60 bump to 120 hrs, and for those vollys inclined, a final 120 hour jump to the full blown 240 cert. Once you're at the 120 hour level, the other 120 hours is just about like the EMT basic in terms of class time, etc.

[EdShanks]

pfd3501,

120 hours would be plenty for a slow vollie department. Probably overkill, in fact. If they made the basic training for a volunteer firefighter 60 hours, they'd have time to get into a little more of the thought processes behind doing what we do at a fire scene. I think a firefighter would be safer on the scene if they understood what was going on around them. There would be time to teach some basic self-rescue techniques, maybe some basic RIT training, ground ladder placement and use, proper airpack use and maintenance, heck, a whole lot of things. Maybe they cover some of this stuff now - as I've said, I took the 36 hour vollie course in 1982. That'll be 22 years ago this Spring! We had demand regulators on our airpacks, and rode tailboards of firetrucks! Ah, the good old days! [:)]

I think the regular drills are more important, especially in a slower department. The less you actually fight fire, the rustier you'll become between fires if you don't keep your skills up. That means quality drills, not sitting in front of a TV watching a film.

[Ohiovolffemtp]

Thanks - I'll double check on the requirement that part-time personnel be trained to FF1 (or FF1-B). I've tried to reach the fire marshal's web site and it says that that page has been removed.

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by Ohiovolffemtp
Thanks - I'll double check on the requirement that part-time personnel be trained to FF1 (or FF1-B). I've tried to reach the fire marshal's web site and it says that that page has been removed.

You will probably have better luck going through the ODPS division of EMS, since that's where all of the certifications and training regulations are through.........

I know when I looked under Anderson's Online Documents, it is all under the EMS Section. look up the number I have listed in my previos post, It's either under the ORC or under the OAC (Administrative Code).

[Ohiovolffemtp]

Folks,
From the Division of EMS:

Good Afternoon Paul,

There is no law or rules in 4765 that requires a part time firefighter
to be a Firefighter 1. There is no rule in the ORC or OAC 4765 that
addresses the issue of part time firefighter employment eligibility.

Let me know if you have any further questions.

Sincerely,

Doug Orahood, EMS Testing/Fire Coordinator

By the way, don't hesitate to use the AskEMS part of thier web site. They're very good about answering quickly.

Paul

[Weruj1]

I think the God's have spoken................thanks Pauly!

[firenresq77]

Thanks for the update. I'll have to pass this on to the powers that be.......

[pfd3501]

Originally posted by EdShanks
pfd3501,

120 hours would be plenty for a slow vollie department. Probably overkill, in fact. If they made the basic training for a volunteer firefighter 60 hours, they'd have time to get into a little more of the thought processes behind doing what we do at a fire scene. I think a firefighter would be safer on the scene if they understood what was going on around them. There would be time to teach some basic self-rescue techniques, maybe some basic RIT training, ground ladder placement and use, proper airpack use and maintenance, heck, a whole lot of things. Maybe they cover some of this stuff now - as I've said, I took the 36 hour vollie course in 1982. That'll be 22 years ago this Spring! We had demand regulators on our airpacks, and rode tailboards of firetrucks! Ah, the good old days! [:)]

I think the regular drills are more important, especially in a slower department. The less you actually fight fire, the rustier you'll become between fires if you don't keep your skills up. That means quality drills, not sitting in front of a TV watching a film.

Ed - I'm all in favor the the basic volly course going from 36 hours to 60 hours. The big thing is, how do we get it implemented?

[EdShanks]

pfd3501 wrote: "Ed - I'm all in favor the the basic volly course going from 36 hours to 60 hours. The big thing is, how do we get it implemented?"

Hmm. Who says 36 is the number of hours vollies should have? I think it's in the ORC, maybe? I'd guess asking at the Ohio Fire Academy would be a place to start. They'd know who to talk to, anyway.

Of course, the individual departments could make it their policy that a new recruit doesn't meet their minimum standards until they've had an additional 24 hours of training once they get back from Recruit School. You'd need someone who's willing and able to expand upon what they were taught in school, and go into a little more depth. Someone with a lot of experience. Maybe even pay the teacher a stipend or something for his time.

It's a thought, anyway. I'm sure someone out there can add to this.

[Weruj1]

all I can say is one thing we are trying to do this year is to get everyone to the 1-B status form the 36 Hr Volly level..............it will not be mandatory but we would encourage it. I would not add the additonal training out of recruit school, as the extra training would be nice but hey dont get any credit from the State for the extra training.

[NFD159]

Are you guys going to host a class? I've been trying to find a 1B, or 84 hour, or whatever its called these days for the last few years, and haven't found one where I didn't have to travel all over the place.

[Weruj1]

I will let you know .........we have 5 in class right now in Monclova......sorry you missed that Todd.

[NFD159]

I didn't hear about that one. With my crappy new shift, 1500-2300, I'll probably never find one I could go to any how!:(

[Weruj1]

if we do something internally perhaps we could try and make it work for you ..........

[firenresq77]

I have been trying for the last 2+ years to get the Chief to put on some daytime classes, to no avail. We have enough people who want the training and work afternoons who could do it, but it hasn't gone any farther. I have talked to a couple instructors who would do the class, but they had never been contacted. I tried for both the FFI (84 hour)and the FFII (120 hour) classes and also the Inspector. I think he may be waiting for our 2 people to get finished with their instructor classes so we can do it all in house, but I'm not sure. 103 said there will be classes put on this year, and I'm sure the 84 hour is going to be the first............ That's the only thing bad about working afternoons........ Kinda screws you on the classes.

[WTFD10]

Brian, if these daytime I & II classes will be made available to people from other departments, please let me know.

[firenresq77]

Will do, Moe. I'm sure they will be since we won't have enough for a full class, but do have some for each. We probably have more for the II right now, but after we get a I class, I'm sure there will be more. It's probably going to be awhile before I know anything, but I'll let you know.

[Weruj1]

'77 who are instructors for you ? maybe we shoud GET TOGETHER and see if we can make it work...........certainly I am more than willing to help you guys out if you need an Asst Instructor.

[firenresq77]

Don't have any yet. 120 and 103 just went through the class, so we should soon. I know I had talked to MB from your place/OHF before and he said he would head up the class, and I passed that on to 100, but it never went anywhere. I don't think 100 can teach fire. I think he just has the EMS instructor. I believe the same with PFD109NFD107.

Like I said, I'd been wanting to get my 240 and Inspector for the last couple years........... I know they will put on a IB first though, since we have a few who have to get it........

[Weruj1]

hey..............you lookin for inspector.........Maumee is puttin one on ..........we got beaucoup guys goin to that ...........you want info ?

[WTFDChief730]

77'...I'm a fire instructor, and with my 24/48 work schedule I'm available to help teach a 1-B class during the daytime. If someone gets something going and you need my help let me know, I'm usually available during the day.

[ff7134]

I'll check around here and see in case anyone wants a short drive. I'll let you guys know.

[firenresq77]

hey..............you lookin for inspector.........Maumee is puttin one on ..........we got beaucoup guys goin to that ...........you want info ?

I saw it, but it is Wed and Thur nights I believe and some Saturdays. I don't want to have to make a bunch of trades or waste comp time to go through the class.........



77'...I'm a fire instructor, and with my 24/48 work schedule I'm available to help teach a 1-B class during the daytime. If someone gets something going and you need my help let me know, I'm usually available during the day.

Thanks Chief. I'll have to check with Tom again to see when he wants to do a class.

[Weruj1]

well I am trying dude !!!! how bad you want it ? :D