Safe Parking: First-due Positioning

[rmoore]

Here's my response to a question about apparatus positioning when working in or near moving traffic.........

Dear Sir;
I would like to know if you have any good rule of thumb on how far back the first in Engine should park in a 35 mph. speed limit, and then what would you do for each additional 10 mph.
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My Reply:

It's simple. You'll position the first due within 100 feet of the damaged vehicles. This holds true whether it's 35mph or 70mph, it doesn't matter. The posted speed limit only influences the distance for your Advance Warning for approaching traffic.

For anything over 35mph(actually over 45mph according to federal highway standards) your advance warning distance should be equal to the width of the lanes of highway x the posted speed limit. Most highways are at least 10 wide, some are 11 feet wide. State highways and freeways/turnpikes are 12' in width.

A 45mph speed zone on a 12' wide highway lane should have advance warning a minimum distance of 540' (12 x 45). A 55mph zone on the same highway should have 55 x 12, or a minimum distance of over three football fields; 660 feet.

The next interesting calculation is the number of needed cones. Cones for a taper line that will merge traffic from the closed lanes into the open lanes should be spaced at 15' intervals. A 660' taper would require about 44 cones. That's quite a stack of cones to do it right!!

Ron Moore, Batt Chief/Training Officer
McKinney TX Fire Department
214-578-3405

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[lmrchief2]

Ron- kinda another question on the same line. I was reading an article on scene safety (not sure if it was in firehouse or not) a couple of weeks ago and it gave a list of training requirements that someone would need to properly do traffic control. I think it was based on NHST standards and it was the guidelines. It had such things as the breakdown on times of keeping the road closed, reflective vest requirements, communication and notifacation procedures. It also discussed how to get out of your vehicle from the driver side and passenger side depending on if you are using a left block or right block. This has been one of the most informative articles that I have read recently. I hope you wrote it and can help with my question.

My question is what standard are they referring to. Or better yet if I could find a copy of the article. Trying to improve the way we do things on scenes. We are also trying to update our SOP's with parking safety. Your articles have been a tremendous help to us. Keep up the great work!

[firenresq77]

lmr, yes the article was in Firehouse. It has been in the last 3-4 issues of it, in the University of Extrication section. They are very good articles for Highway Safety.

And I believe the standards may be DOT standards. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

[lmrchief2]

That was what I thought but I could not find the issue that had the info in so you know I thought I was wrong-once again. It must be in the issue I cannot find. I will have to look a little harder.:rolleyes:

Thanks 77

[Dalmatian90]

I would like to know if you have any good rule of thumb on how far back the first in Engine should park in a 35 mph. speed limit, and then what would you do for each additional 10 mph.

Traffic is only one of several factors.

You have to identify your primary hazards, what you have to mitigate them and work from there.

100' is probably grossly insufficient if you have wires down. In my area (New England) the standard distance between poles is 175'. If you consider you should have one "good" pole between you and the pole the wires are hanging from, that's somewhere between 175' to 350' back. Knowing your local "typical" distance btw is one handy way for you to estimate how far back you are!

On the other hand, if you find live victims trapped with an engine compartment fire going that's gonna dictate your positioning -- our first due Engine-Tank has essentially a big booster line (they can flow 200gpm) so 35, 50' and hit the fire hard & fast is needed.

Our Rescue truck's main hydraulic tools are on 100' hydraulic lines, so placing that closer to the accident is appropriate (yes, we have portable pumps if necessary).

You can't just think about traffic when spotting apparatus, but work from the primary hazard back. Traffic is just one of those factors -- if you find no wires down, no fire problem, and no cops then traffic may be the primary hazard you need to mitigate and the appropriate place for the pumper might be to drop it's crew, and extinguisher, and EMS jump kits and then go driver only 500' up the road and around the corner on that 50mph road to stop oncoming traffic.

[ADSNWFLD]

It depends on what traffic control equipment is kept on the first due rig. One major problem is if you are too far back people will attempt to re enter the lane you want blocked. Follow the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices(MUTCD) as close as possible. http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/pdfs/2003/pdf-index.htm You need a dozen or more cones minimum to begin to set up a work zone for us.
You have to make a real commitment to Firefighter safety when operating on the highway. Few departments go to the extent that OSHA requires workers to. This is one place where we can do a better job.

One thing to remember is that drivers don't pay attention to the road or us. Give them as much fair warning as possible.

[nmfire]

One of the biggest failures is placing your self in a spot where traffic can't see you but they can see a million flashing lights and flood lights glareing at them. Many times while directing traffic, someone will open their window and say "Hey, I couldn't see you until I was on top of you with all that light".

Of course, sometimes they say that as an excuse because they were on their cell phone and almost ran you over and realized something was wrong when they heard you yelling.

[mcaldwell]

It's the circus effect. OOH the pretty colours!

We try to shut down all but a couple of red rotators once we are staged. Strobes and these NASA inspired lightbars are great for long distance warning, but they can be a little intense once you get close up.

[Safety33]

I just took a class on incident scene safety and traffic control. We were taught that the first piece of equipment should set up approximately 50 feet behind the incident or last vehicle (EMS, Police, etc) from that point on, as ron stated, set up your early warning devices based on your formulas. If anyone would be interested in them, I would be more than willing to post and/or send them. Also, take in consideration the blocking of one or more lanes of traffic.

[nmfire]

Another thing I thought of AFTER we left an MVA the other day when several people said they couldn't see me in the wash of flashing lights. We have 120v ground lights that can be plugged into a cord reel on the rescue truck. If it is within reach, take one of these and put it where you are standing. Point it in such a direction that is lights you up but isn't pointing into the eyes of oncoming traffic. These things are like portable sunlight and if they don't see you then, they never will.

My other plan is to get a few rapid deployment spike strips. I think that would REALLY get the message accross.

[Dalmatian90]

We have 120v ground lights that can be plugged into a cord reel on the rescue truck. If it is within reach, take one of these and put it where you are standing.

Similiar idea NM, if we're just doing traffic control a lot of times I like to knock down to minimal if any "flashers" and just use the 110v lighting to make a nice, bright spot. Of course face the lights so they're not blinding drivers, just making a well lit place. With good lighting, I can setup cones & wear a traffic vest and be very visible and clear on what I want the drivers to do without all the "excitement" of a zillion strobes flashing.

[nmfire]

The problem I was having the other day was I couldn't put the truck in a place where I could have the mounted flood lights facing sideways to not blind them and still light up me. There were guardrails on both sides so I had to stand behind the truck. That and the truck's large flood lights were all lighting up the actual MVA that was in front of the truck. Also, chances are I may be a good distance away from the truck to which point the flood lights mounted on it would be useless.

I really wish I thought of the ground light thing at the time but now I have it engrained in my head and am actually eger to try it next time.