Small and steady or big?

[JaySNJFF]

Question: When using spreader tool, do you:
A) go in open some, close tool, move back and then in for more (repeat until you have proper result)
OR
B) do you insert tool and spread until the tool is at 100% of its opening position?

I ask this because I have been trained in method (a) and have found it to work well. However, I was at a drill for a friends volunteer company the other night when the Safety Officer and Chief said use method B. I found it difficult, but since I was an observer, I keep my mouth shut. I find the B method rips up a lot of the car and takes away control points within the structural members of the car.

Any PPTs on this topic out there?

[SpartanGuy]

We do it this way:

Get a bite and spread until it rips, slips, or bends it to the point that it's not useful. Then close tips, insert farther into same point(if possible) and spread again until you exhaust that bite. Repeat until process is accomplished.

[firedog7]

Have you tried the vertical crush method?

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by SpartanGuy
We do it this way:

Get a bite and spread until it rips, slips, or bends it to the point that it's not useful. Then close tips, insert farther into same point(if possible) and spread again until you exhaust that bite. Repeat until process is accomplished. That is how I do it. You have to use a mixture of methods a nd b and you will probably get better results and quicker.......

[Bones42]

A and B.

Depends on the situation. Sometimes, that first bite has been good enough to go an force the door open. Sometimes, it hasn't and I've had to tunnel in.

I also C sometimes. The vertical crush method has it's uses also and works fairly well.

[pvfire424]

I havent done that many extrications, but each time I've done it it was totally different. On one we took a big bite from the hinge side, to pop the door, on another we took several little bites on the pin side to open the door. I've also seen one where they might as well have tunneled in under the frame, with all the bites they tried with no luck ( I was impressed with that little Saturn)

I guess what I am trying to say is: I would not go into an extrication with a set idea of how to do it. I would rather have an idea of what I need acomplished and choose the best way to acheive that based on the situation. ( heck the door might be unlocked and not damaged)

Stay safe !

[vehext]

I also think a combintaion is best. Certainly, if you start to rip/shread metal then you you stop immediately because you won't get very far. You need the door and/or post intact in order to remove it from the latch or hinges.

Like everything else in rescue, no real hard-fast rules. Situation dictates procedure.

[fireguy919]

Doesn’t matter what anyone tells you. Do what works best for you. Don’t be afraid to try other ideas it may help you. Every time you go to an extraction call, no matter how you train or set up it will be different optical to over come. Be ready to try different things. Learn to be flexible, in you approach.

[Resq14]

Depends entirely on the situation.

"Extrication is like jazz: improvisation based on fundamentals"

[MetalMedic]

As most have said, you really need to do what works best for the situation at hand. But with that in mind, I had an opportunity this past evening to help a local department with a mini-drill they did folling a mock-crash they did. I observed several of the members trying to do small spreads, closing the tips and then spreading again... until they finally accomplished their task. I pointed out to them that the most common mistake that I see in using the spreader is for the operator to not allow the tool to do all that it can do for you. I then directed one of the members in removing a rear door. She addressed the nader pin first, and had to finesse the door some in order to obtain a good purchase point. Once that was achieved, the nader was broken free easily. I then pointed out a location directly below the top hinge of the door and told her to start spreading. The tool slipped, so she repositioned it one time and continued. When the hindge broke, I told her to keep spreading, pointing out that the tool still had a good "bite" on the metal. The bottom hindge came apart after the tool opened about six more inches.

So, to answer your question if you want my opinion, I would say that as long as you are pushing metal and not tearing metal or slipping on it, continue to spread until the tool is wide open or until you defeat the component you are attacking. Why waste the time to open, close, reposition and then open again when you may be able to accomplish the entire task by just opening the tool farther.

Speaking of habits that may need to be unlearned, my latest pet-peve is using the spreaders as a battering ram. I am confused as to why people still want to ram the tool into the side of the car to make a purchase point. Many from the group this evening were using this technique. If you see people doing this a lot, take a look at their spreader tips and see if you find parts of them chipped off. The tips are made to handle a great deal of lateral force... but they are not intended to be impact tools.

[firedog7]

Let your spreader do the work when it comes to making purchase points, Open your spreaders up enough to slip over the top of the door at a 45 degree angle and pinch the skin together with a little pressure, with the tips near the door handle, that will open up the area where the edge of the door meets the b-pillar enough to insert your spreader tips and then go to work.... no bashing no ramming!
I've had really good success with it.

[MetalMedic]

Originally posted by firedog7
Let your spreader do the work when it comes to making purchase points, Open your spreaders up enough to slip over the top of the door at a 45 degree angle and pinch the skin together with a little pressure, with the tips near the door handle, that will open up the area where the edge of the door meets the b-pillar enough to insert your spreader tips and then go to work.... no bashing no ramming!
I've had really good success with it.

That technique works well. Another way is to put the spreader into the window opening and spread up on the roof and down on the door. This will often create a purchase point for you. Pinching a front fender is another options to gain access to front door hinges.

If you really want to beat on the car, get your halligan tool and a hammer (your "irons") and pry open a purchase point with the duck bill on the halligan.

[firenresq77]

I don't understand the ramming of the tools, either. We were doing a class a couple weeks ago and someone started to ram (with our tool) and I put a quick stop to it. I think part of it is some of the people that "teach" the newer guys are "old school" and don't receive newer training.........

[firedog7]

MetalManic You are refering to the Vertical Crush method mentioned earlier,
That method works well on the older cars very easily but on the newer thin skinned doors you have to really watch for tearing, the larger spreaders with a opening distance of 30-32 inchs seems to work best.

[FiftyOnePride]

Originally posted by SpartanGuy
We do it this way:

Get a bite and spread until it rips, slips, or bends it to the point that it's not useful. Then close tips, insert farther into same point(if possible) and spread again until you exhaust that bite. Repeat until process is accomplished.

Basically go with that, if however a bite holds to the full reach and spread of the tool, then its a combination of both. But for the most part I believe that "A" is the most common and effecient method.