Theory Behind the tele-squirt?

[stcommodore]

I'm just trying to get some imput on what eveyone uses/needs this type of aparatus for. It seems useful in tight situations to throw that 50ft to the roof to make a grab or something but I don't know much about the trucks so anything that you know would be helpful.

[CaptOldTimer]

Don't think these things were made for climbing. They are mostly used to throw a stream in a higher place. I wouldn't want to be climbing on one.

If you are near Philly, check with them. They had a few at one time.

[stcommodore]

What advantage do they hold over the standard squirt then? There are only two or three left in my county and I haven't seen many pics of them in philly only the standard squirt.

[CaptOldTimer]

Go to http://www.phila.gov/fire/

Then go to photo gallery and click on Engines. The second one down on the left is a squirt.

As you can see all it is, is a boom with a nozzle on it. No ladder or anything to climb. Just a means to put water in a second or third floor window.

You may slide down the boom in real emergency but I don’t know if it would that stable. If fire was licking at you anything would be a help!

:D ;)

[npfd801]

Weren't the original Squrts basically articulated like a Snorkel but without the bucket? Tele-squrts have a telescopicing boom, right? This is why they can have a climbing ladder on board.

With a Squrt (if my analogy is correct) - you would have the same overhead and swing restrictions when setting up that a Snorkel has. I suspect a Tele-Squrt is closer to an Aerialscope boom in concept.

[stcommodore]

Im thinking of something like this

[firenresq77]

Like this one?????????


http://northwoodfire.com/trucks/802%5b1%5d.jpg

It's pretty much worthless for us, other than an elevated master stream..... Setbacks in most places are too long for reach to most houses.........

[Dave1983]

The department next to mine has a bunch of mobile home parks and apartment complexes with limited access. Three of their five engines are tele-squirts. They use them to provide aerial master streams and roof access in these complexes that their 100' platform cant get into.

[STATION2]

My career departent had a number of them in the 80's that lasted well into the 90's. They were '79 ALF Century chassis with 50' Tele-Squrts, 1500GPM pumps and 500GWT. They were speced, bought and assigned to Engine Co.'s whose still alarm territories had large numbers of garden apartment complexes and the like. My station had one and it saved for than 1 apartment building. Not by sticking it in the window or the front door (Althought was done on some blowing warehouses and buildings), but by using it as an unmanned aerial master stream that the Chauffeur could throw, flow and leave to cover an exposure while the crew was attacking the fire in the building of origin. Houston had a bad rash of big multiple alarm fires (Mostly because of wood shingles) prior to this and these were bought to try and give the companies another tool to use by allowing the Engine Co.'s to go with big water quickly if necessary. They held up well considering some of the companies with them were making 4000+ runs a year.

As for the Squrt / Tele-Squrt debate, they are totally different. As mentioned, Philadelphia currently has Squrts. 54', 2 section articulating boom devices with a nozzle on the end that can be used both elevated and below grade. Tele-Squrts are simple telescoping waterways with a very minimal ladder attached for emeregeny use only, like an Aerialscope has a ladder to the bucket, LOL. I climbed them and agree, not an everyday way to get above grade if you have options.

Just some thoughts.

[FFTide]

Originally posted by firenresq77

It's pretty much worthless for us, other than an elevated master stream..... Setbacks in most places are too long for reach to most houses.........

Get it up on the lawn! Don't have to fight the fire from the street :) If someone's house is burning the lawn is the least of their worries.

Besides when the construction crew comes to tear down/build up they'll be on the lawn with heavy machinery anyway.

We have a 55' aerial. Full ladder with 2 foot sides is much nicer over a tele-squirt.

~Jeff

[lvwrench]

We have had snorkle, telesquirt and now snozzle. We had two new snozzle units but it seems that one of them rolled over and is a totalled loss($400,000) down the drain. A slight problem of too fast for a curve. The main flaw I found was that the front end was on overload and it should have been a dual rear axle system. The saddest part was the loss of a good Captain who is now confined to a wheelchair and a couple of other injuries that recuperated. The department has decided against buying anymore. Build it right and then drive it right. If it works for you then get it and if its not necessary forget it.

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by FFTide


Get it up on the lawn! Don't have to fight the fire from the street :) If someone's house is burning the lawn is the least of their worries.

Besides when the construction crew comes to tear down/build up they'll be on the lawn with heavy machinery anyway.

We have a 55' aerial. Full ladder with 2 foot sides is much nicer over a tele-squirt.

~Jeff Doesn't do you much good when your truck is sunk down in the ground and is unstable...... ;)

[SpartanGuy]

I've been known to take an engine into a yard for a fire before...:D


Neighboring department has a telesqurt. It' not that bad for climbing. I'd rather climb a full blown aerial, but we've never had a problem using it before.

[jfTL41]

The Tele-squirt, KME Firestix and the rest of the like products are useless for anything other than an elevated master stream. They are not ladders for firefighting, the boom under the ladder makes it very difficult to get off the tip onto a building (that is what we have ladder trucks right?). The other idea discussed was the 50-55' "aerial" come on! there are departments that carry 50' portable ladders, an aerial that small is pointless unless you drive up to the building and raise it to 80 degrees and hope to make the roof. If you need an aerial get an aerial 100' the 75's are ok too if you have size requirements. If you just want an elevated master stream on a pumper look into the Squirts, Snozzles and such.

[FFTide]

Originally posted by jfTL41
The other idea discussed was the 50-55' "aerial" come on! there are departments that carry 50' portable ladders, an aerial that small is pointless unless you drive up to the building and raise it to 80 degrees and hope to make the roof. If you need an aerial get an aerial 100' the 75's are ok too if you have size requirements.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. In my town, the company we run with has a 100' TL. Well, talking to one of the Lt.s the other night, since the 100' TL is 18 years old with no pump they should be specing a new one soon for delivery in the next 2 or 3 years, it came up that in the past 5 years the TL has been up 2 times. Once for a missing persons, and once for the 75th anniversary party. On the otherhand, our 55' aerial has successfully deployed at every house fire in the past 5 years. It all depends where you are and what you have. The 100'TL with 4 outriggers takes up the whole road, our 55' stick has 2 riggers, single axel, and quite maneuverable. However for the few buildings in town that are 5+ stories, then that's why we have a 100' TL, and the space around those buildings to deploy it.

~Jeff

[npfd801]

I'll say it now, and probably a million more times - what works for one set of folks will NOT work for another. So while your 100 foot tower may be the cat's meow for your first due, it would be a complete waste for mine.

A 55 footer also wouldn't work in my area, yet I won't tell someone that their methods are flawed.

In fact, considering we no longer have a LADDER at all, our "ladder truck" is going to be a new engine with an enhanced ladder complement, more tools, etc. Now you can attack that concept all you want, as I fought tooth and nail for a small quint to replace the old 85 foot ladder, and obviously lost...

By the way, what makes a "quad" a quad? How much ground ladder footage does one need? Bueller?

[STATION2]

All you need is a 1000GPM pump, 300 gallon tank, 800' of 2-1/2" or larger supply line and 400' of attack line and the 85' of ground ladders. I surmise you just remove the aerial requirement and the other requirements for a quint still apply. Just a thought.

[npfd801]

Well that's exciting then... Maybe I can get them to letter it as a quad instead of an engine. We'll have 4/5ths of the quint I was hoping for, as a quint would have been ideal for the first out unit of our "central" station. Instead we'll have a quad with 1000 gallons of water, 1500 gpm pump, lotsa hose and 97 feet of ground ladders. Before anyone chirps about staffing reductions, we're volunteer and staffing challenged. I doubt an engine and truck would get out of any station on a fire in good time unless it was a training night.

It will be nice to have the longer roofer (16') though - it'll be real handy at a lot of our first due area.

At least it will have plenty of room for all of the saws and other truck company stuff that came off of the ladder.

[jfTL41]

Get the longer portable, they can make them fit by having the tips protrude into the pump box. Make them build what you need.

[npfd801]

The unit we're working on will have a 10 foot attic, a 12 and 16 foot roofer, and a 24 and 35 foot extension.

98% of the work we'll do will be with the shorter pair, but we need the 35 enough that we'll be carrying it on at least two engines (one already carries a 35 and a 24 in a half-*ss retrofit).

[Bones42]

50' Tele-boom from E-One. In my town, highest construction allowed is 35' with average setback of 20'. Have made many roof's with this and have no complaints. It gets to lots of places our useless 75' Snorkle can't and will get to many places the expected 100' TL won't get either.

[Res343cue]

Just a question...

Does it freak you guys out to climb an "open sided" ladder like that, compared to your typical 75+ foot style ladder?

Guess it's sorta like a ground ladder, but only mounted on the truck.

[firenresq77]

Originally posted by Res343cue
Just a question...

Does it freak you guys out to climb an "open sided" ladder like that, compared to your typical 75+ foot style ladder?

Guess it's sorta like a ground ladder, but only mounted on the truck. Ours has railings on the side, just not as tall....

[Bones42]

Feet go on rungs. Hands go on rungs. Railings just get in the way. :p


Never bothered me yet.

[oldman21220]

I used to like the up and over the top with the 55' pole ladder. Actually, back in the day, no do, no pass.

[STATION2]

Or as HFD did in the Academy back in the day. Every class has people that are "Uncomfortable" with heights, especially at the beginning of the academy. To help "acclimate" the new recruits to heights, on pay day the Drill Master would ascend a 100' aerial and sit on the top rung. In order to recieve your paycheck, you had to go up, get it, sign for it and go back down. Not a bad idea, given todays nationwide "softening up" of standards for many departments.