The State of Minnesota

[NJFFSA16]

ELY, Minn. (AP) - The wildfire in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area
Wilderness grew to about 650 acres on Sunday as firefighters,
buffered by reinforcements, worked to knock down the blaze.
About 50 local firefighters were on the scene of the fire near
Seagull Lake about 45 miles northeast of Ely in the far
northeastern corner of Minnesota, according to the state Department
of Natural Resources.
Four 20-people crews arrived Sunday from Ohio, West Virginia and
Missouri, the DNR said. Firefighters, as their primary tactic, used
a water-scooping aircraft to douse the fire with water from the
air.
Fire officials hoped to curb the blaze before Monday, when
strong southwest winds were expected to return, along with even
hotter and drier conditions, said Patty Johnson, a fire expert for
the Gunflint Ranger District of the Superior National Forest.
The burned area was about 2 miles long and a half-mile wide. The
fire burned about 10 miles from the nearest structures, including
cabins, homes, resorts, outfitters and campgrounds at the end of
the Gunflint Trail on Saganaga and Seagull Lakes.
Bob Carity, of Maple Grove, ended a four-day trip on Seagull
Lake on Sunday after watching the growing fire and then an aerial
dousing. He said there appeared to be no campgrounds in the area
where the fire started.
"It was really thick jackpine and blowdown where it started,"
he said. "And it's really dry all over in there. There wasn't even
any dew this morning."
Authorities closed an entry point and canoe route, but there
were no evacuations.
The portage from Seagull to Alpine Lake was closed, as was a
lightly used canoe route between Seagull, Grandpa, Roy and Saganaga
lakes, but officials said there were no archaeological sites
threatened as of Sunday afternoon.
The fire grew from 200 acres to 400 acres Saturday night, and
steady winds of 15 to 20 mph hampered fire crews, fire officials
said.
Besides the fires in the BWCAW and between Bagley and Bemidji,
there were small fires south of Babbitt and near Orr. All the fires
except the one in the BWCAW are contained, fire officials said.
Crews have been fighting small blazes all week.
July was hot and dry, leaving the area vulnerable to fire. In
Voyageurs National Park along the Minnesota-Ontario border, some
trees already are showing fall colors, an indication of stress. And
portions of the BWCAW still are recovering from a huge storm in
1999 that downed thousands of trees, leaving piles of dead wood
that fuel a fire.
No major fires have broken out in the BWCA Wilderness since the
1999 blowdown.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[budthespud]

Someone wrote in 1999 with a calculation of the
number of Atomic bombs' force this Blowdown
area could generate at that time were it to catch
fire.

A few years' rotting I suppose helps mitigate the
situation.

[NJFFSA16]

ELY, Minn. (AP) - Light rain gave firefighters some help Tuesday
as they battled a wildfire in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area
Wilderness, but much work remained as the fire grew.
"This isn't over - it's far from over," Jim Hinds, U.S. Forest
Service incident commander, said at a staging area at the northern
end of the Gunflint Trail, about four miles northeast of the fire
near Alpine Lake. He predicted firefighters would be working for at
least two more weeks.
The fire is burning near the end of the Gunflint Trail between
Alpine and Seagull lakes. By Tuesday evening, the fire had grown to
960 acres, up from 485 acres early Monday, said Pete Heiden, a fire
information officer with the Minnesota Interagency Fire Center in
Grand Rapids.
"They weren't dumping on it today like they were yesterday with
the (water) scooper planes," Heiden said.
About a tenth of an inch of rain helped firefighters early
Tuesday, but not much rain is forecast in coming days, Heiden said.
"The benefit from the rain is pretty much gone now," he said
Tuesday night. He added that winds were predicted to be from the
north and northwest on Wednesday, "so in a lot of areas, the
flames are going to be pushed back into the areas that have already
been burned."
Campers should be prepared to bring in cookstoves because
Superior National Forest plans to ban open burning in the 1999
blowdown area of the BWCA starting at 12:01 a.m. Friday, said Patti
Hines, another fire information officer with the Minnesota
Interagency Fire Center.
Firefighters also prepared fire breaks for a possible burn-out
Wednesday, to burn up vegetation that could fuel the fire.
About 147 firefighters were on the scene at the end of the
Gunflint Trail at midday Tuesday.
"This is the first real day we've been able to get ground
troops in there for a full day," said Gil Knight, an information
officer working near the fire. "Wonderful as the air operations
are, you can't put a fire out without ground troops."
Heiden said a tanker plane dropped a fire retardant near Grandpa
Lake on Tuesday to keep the fire from spreading.
There were no evacuations.
In 1999, strong winds blew down millions of trees in the BWCA,
leaving it more exposed to fires.
The fire started Saturday, apparently from lightning several
days earlier that had smoldered until winds fanned the flames.
About 16 campsites on five lakes have been closed, including ones
on Grandpa, Seagull, Saganaga, Alpine and Red Rock. The portage
between Alpine and Seagull lakes also is closed.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[NJFFSA16]

ON THE GUNFLINT TRAIL, Minn. (AP) - Firefighters made big gains
against a wildfire burning in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area
Wilderness, and their lines held despite winds as high as 30 miles
an hour.
A spokesman at the Minnesota Interagency Fire Center in Grand
Rapids says the fire is now 45 percent contained, up from 35
percent on Sunday.
Dewey Hanson says firefighters have secured more than a half
mile of the containment line on the north side of the fire and
should be able to finish the northern line tomorrow to put the fire
in a box.
The fire has burned more than 13-hundred acres between Alpine,
Seagull, Red Rock and Grandpa lakes since it was sparked by
lightning on July 30th. It has cost nearly one-point-nine (m)
million dollars so far to fight the blaze.
No structures have been damaged, and Hanson said a sprinkler
line set up to the east of the fire should prevent it from reaching
cabins and businesses near the end of the Gunflint Trail.
---
On the Net:
Minnesota Interagency Fire Center: http://www.mnics.org


(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[NJFFSA16]

ON THE GUNFLINT TRAIL, Minn. (AP) - Firefighters worked with
hand tools Tuesday to build a perimeter on the north side of the
wildfire burning in the blowdown area of the Boundary Waters Canoe
Area Wilderness.
"I would say they are making real good progress," said Cynthia
Sage, a spokeswoman for the Minnesota Interagency Fire Center in
Grand Rapids.
She said a group of firefighters were clearing trees and brush
in a two-mile line with hand tools. "It's a little gentler on the
environment than a bulldozer," she said.
The idea was take fuel away from the fire and stop its advance,
she said.
Sage said other firefighters were mopping up little fires in the
area and patrolling fire lines on other sides of the fire.
The blaze remained 45 percent contained, unchanged from Monday
night. Sage said 1,335 acres had burned, also unchanged from the
day before.
Nearly 270 firefighters were on the scene. The firefighting
operation had cost $1.9 million as of Tuesday afternoon.
The fire has burned between Alpine, Seagull, Red Rock and
Grandpa lakes since it was sparked by lightning on July 30 and
smoldered until flaring up Aug. 6. It is the largest fire in the
area in a decade.
No structures have been damaged, and a sprinkler line has been
set up to the east of the fire should prevent it from reaching
cabins and businesses near the end of the Gunflint Trail, the
57-mile road leading into the wilderness from Grand Marais.
Firefighters working on the rough terrain of northeastern
Minnesota have suffered only minor injuries so far, Sage said,
including a twisted ankle, a broken finger and a strained knee.
"That's not too bad, considering," she said.
---
On the Net:
Minnesota Interagency Fire Center: http://www.mnics.org

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[NJFFSA16]

ON THE GUNFLINT TRAIL, Minn. (AP) - Firefighters who have been
combating the largest wildfire in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area
Wilderness in a decade began planning their departures on
Wednesday.
Fire officials predict the Alpine Lake fire will be fully
brought under control by Sunday, after which the firefighters who
have been on the scene for the past two weeks will begin rotating
out.
Jean Bergerson, a spokeswoman for the Minnesota Interagency Fire
Center in Grand Rapids, said there were 252 firefighters in the
area in northeastern Minnesota on Wednesday. By Tuesday, she
expected there would be less than 75 people left.
The firefighters have been living on many of the 18 public
campsites that have been closed during the fire, which was sparked
by lightning on July 30 and smoldered until flaring up Aug. 6.
Those campsites will begin opening to the public as the fire
crews depart. Bergerson predicted that most of the campsites would
be open within 10 days.
On Wednesday, the fire was 46 percent contained after burning
over 1,335 acres between Alpine, Seagull, Red Rock and Grandpa
lakes. Firefighters were working on surrounding the main fire and
mopping up smaller fires.
They were working by hand. Water-bomber aircraft weren't used.
"The fire is getting under control," Bergerson said. "Those are
not machines that you do mop for, they are machines you use to stop
the forward advance of the fire."
She said the fire fighting efforts would be helped by rainfall
that began Wednesday afternoon. Weather forecasters expected the
fire area to get up to a third of an inch by Thursday afternoon.
Fire officials reported that as of Wednesday, fighting the fire
had cost $1.94 million.
The fire was near the end of the Gunflint Trail, the 57-mile
road leading into the wilderness from Grand Marais. Much of the
burned area contained dead timber blown down in a 1999 windstorm
that toppled millions of trees in and near the BCWAW.
---
On the Net:
Minnesota Interagency Fire Center: http://www.mnics.org

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[NJFFSA16]

ON THE GUNFLINT TRAIL, Minn. (AP) - Fire officials expect the
wildfire in the Boundary Waters Canoe Area should be fully
contained a bit earlier than expected.
Officials now expect the Alpine Lake wildfire should be
contained by six o'clock Friday night.
The fire is 77 percent contained, up from 46 percent on
Wednesday. The blaze has burned over 13-hundred-35 acres between
Alpine, Seagull, Red Rock and Grandpa lakes in northeastern
Minnesota.
The Minnesota Interagency Fire Center in Grand Rapids says
firefighters were helped by the nearly two inches of rain that fell
Wednesday, and more rain is expected later today.
Eighteen wilderness campsites remain closed, but are expected to
reopen in about a week. The two portages between Alpine and Seagull
lakes have reopened.

On the Net:
Minnesota Interagency Fire Center: http://www.mnics.org

[NJFFSA16]

Firefighters battled wildfire that threatened West Eveleth
AP Photo MNVIR101
WEST EVELETH, Minn. (AP) - Firefighters battled an 80-acre
wildfire for more than five hours Tuesday, using water bombers,
engines and brush trucks to keep flames away from nearby homes in
West Eveleth.
Mountain Iron Fire Chief Tom Cvar said the cause of the blaze
hadn't been determined.
No injuries were reported.
More than 30 firefighters from Eveleth, Virginia, Clinton and
Fayal battled in high winds to keep the fire from spreading to
homes north of St. Louis County Road 101 and jumping over the road
into West Eveleth and beyond.
Cvar said firefighters were able to stop the fire's progression
by placing fire engines at the two homes that were most threatened
and by having the DNR water bombers dump tons and tons of water
along the road.
Highway 101 leading into West Eveleth was shut down for a time
while crews fought the blaze.
As mop-up operations continued into the night, officials
expressed concern that this fall could be dangerous for wildfires
if the northeastern Minnesota area doesn't get rain.
Exhausted after hours on the scene, Cvar said he was surprised
to see the green grass burning.
"It is awfully dry out there," he said, noting there is no
water in the swamps that are usually full.
"We definitely need some rain," Cvar said. "If it stays the
way it is, it's going to get worse."
---
Information from: Mesabi Daily News, http://www.virginiamn.com

(Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

[neiowa]

ON THE GUNFLINT TRAIL, Minn. (AP) - Firefighters worked with
hand tools Tuesday to build a perimeter on the north side of the
wildfire burning in the blowdown area of the Boundary Waters Canoe
Area Wilderness.
"I would say they are making real good progress," said Cynthia
Sage, a spokeswoman for the Minnesota Interagency Fire Center in
Grand Rapids.
She said a group of firefighters were clearing trees and brush
in a two-mile line with hand tools. "It's a little gentler on the
environment than a bulldozer," she said.....


(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

Could someone explain why you would paint your house with a toothbrush/fight a wildland fire with a shovel when a dozer can be used? Just PC nonsense? It's not 1889, why risk lives, and failure, rather making a serious mechanized attack? Two hands tied behind your back.

[hooknladder3]

POST REMOVED, USER BANNED FOR 10 DAYS FOR INAPPROPRIATE POST.

[NJFFSA16]

shut the hell up. are you even a firefighter, or do you jack off to pictures of firemen. you must be a rookie.

Personal attacks, especially of this nature, will not be tolerated in these forums. The administrator has been advised of your post. Questioning tactics used in a wilderness area is a perfectly acceptable query.

[SPFDRum]

ight a wildland fire with a shovel when a dozer can be used? Just PC nonsense?

That part of minnesota can be fairly thick and full of tammerak bogs. Heavy equipment wouldn't make it in or through up there. Even attempting to clear an area for the equipment would take more manpower than available.

[neiowa]

shut the hell up. are you even a firefighter, or do you jack off to pictures of firemen. you must be a rookie.

Thanks for your input Mr 7 posts.

Our wildland fires are grass/brush on PRIVATE property. We've substititute equipment/water for manpower swinging shovels/flaps/rakes/etc.

I've been to the Boundary Waters several times. A LOT of lakes restricting gound movement but up there the masses of enviro wackos have a heart attack at the sound of any internal combustion engine (boat, snowmobile, aircraft). As my question still is: Is PC/environ BS driving the FF effort above the mission? Putting FF at risk to avoid minor terrain damage?

Not many heartattacks to dozer operators or to FF spraying water from a 4x4 (or tracked) vehicle. I'm pretty sure a tank trail will grow back faster than a burned off area.

[hooknladder3]

now thats the reply I'm looking for neiowa , keep up the good work. it's just that your comments to others is a bit off, thats all. and to njffsa16 it's not your biz.

[hwoods]

now thats the reply I'm looking for neiowa , keep up the good work. it's just that your comments to others is a bit off, thats all. and to njffsa16 it's not your biz.

Time for a little attitude adjustment here. This is a public forum, and, as such, everything is everybody's business. NOBODY has the right to tell anyone else to shut up or butt out. You really, really need to make a sincere apology to these gentlemen, while you are still allowed to post here. I am reporting this thread to the administrators, probably about the second one I've reported in 6 years or so. You are, however, about the most disrespectful poster I've ever seen here. YOU need to shape up, and, It IS our business, ALL of us.

[RspctFrmCalgary]

OK I'm finally going to weigh-in on this, especially since Harve has jumped in to express his displeasure as well. It takes a bit to get Harve ****ed off.

When I was made aware (in the wee wee weeeeeee hours of the morning) of the events unfolding on this thread, I did a bit of research and found this little gem.

Hey Chiefdog, thanks for putting that neiowa boy in his place, I'm on the other side of Iowa.

So is there some history here, or do you two know each other and this is just a bit of "friendly" ball busting going on? :confused:

I had the same reaction as Harve when I read and to njffsa16 it's not your biz I thought to myself "it IS our business, because YOU posted it here"!!! :rolleyes:

[redneckemt]

Just a random observation, any one notice the smilie? Kind of makes me wonder if it ain't friendly ball busting. Now as for the comment to njffsa16 :mad:

[RspctFrmCalgary]

Just a random observation, any one notice the smilie? Kind of makes me wonder if it ain't friendly ball busting.

Yes, it made me wonder .... hence my previous comment ......

So is there some history here, or do you two know each other and this is just a bit of "friendly" ball busting going on?

And furthermore ... :D

Now as for the comment to njffsa16 :mad:

Agreed :mad:

[hfd66truck]

Firehouse.com Forums Note: Any posts which abuse, threaten, harass or inappropriately post personal information about other members or individuals; include commercial messages, links to inappropriate content; or otherwise include any objectionable content, your Firehouse.com account may be terminated without warning. We do not monitor all posts and rely on user feedback to report these instances. Do not post private information that you do not want made available publicly, including your name and department, and never assume you are completely anonymous. We reserve the right to remove any user, for any reason, at any time.

That should clear up any confusion on your part, and that was copied from the bottom oif the page. Didn't even have to go looking for it.

[DepChief135]

This is a public forum, and as such, anything you post can be read by anyone who is inclined to visit this site. Your initial remarks to neiowa were rude, offensive and uncalled for. I don't care if you know the person or not, that type of comment has no place here. The language is offensive. I agree, whether you were kidding or not, you owe neiowa, and the rest of us, an apology. Its perfectly exceptable to disagree and debate the issues. Making it personal is not.

[RFRDxplorer]

Hookandladder3,

How can you run in here guns blazing and attack well respected members of the forums like you have? And like has been said before, it is NJFFSA's "biz" as this is a public forum where everyone has a say. Just because people do things differently than you doen't mean that they do things wrong. Did you know all of the circumstances of WHY they can't/don't use dozers? Or did you just go hog wild on these guys?

Since you have very few posts you may want this little hint. If you want to become a respected member of this website you will A) Need to use proper grammar and punctuation, B) End personal attacks on people and apologize for those you have already committed, C) Stop using that kind of language, it's not needed here, D) Respect other's point of view, while you may disagree with it, at least respect it, and E) Need to Grow up. Then maybe, maybe after a long time you will become an experienced and respected poster on these forums. But like previous experiences have shown, it usually takes a while for all that to happen.

Just some advice.







Oh yeah, post reported.

[RFRDxplorer]

P.S.- I'm not even a rookie firefighter................I'm an explorer.

[RoughRider]

now thats the reply I'm looking for neiowa , keep up the good work. it's just that your comments to others is a bit off, thats all. and to njffsa16 it's not your biz.

"keep up the good work" and "comments to others"

Excuse me but I’m not looking for your endorsement. Secondly, neiowa asked a simple question. He didn’t attack anyone. Questioning strategy and tactics and bouncing ideas off each other is why many of us post here.

Why don't you share with us your first hand knowledge of the difficulties of making a mechanized attack in this area?

[ROOKIELZ]

Hooknladder: NJFFSA16 is a well respected member here. He started this topic and he was posting well within the terms of service here. He probably could have answered your questions and he certainly pointed out your posting indescretions in a reasonable format without any personal attacks to you.

Take it as a lesson learned and follow the posting guidelines. Then you will (probably) continue posting trouble free.

Oh, and a smilie doesn't always guarantee that malicious comments will be overlooked.

[CaptainGonzo]

Hook and Ladder 3.. how many years do you have in the fire service?

NJFFSA16 has 38 years of wildland experience. I think he knows what he is talking about here.

You, however, are an unknown, and your method of cheap shots and confrontation isn't likely to win you friends or influence people.

PS: I also reported the post.

[PFDTruck2]

hooknladder3 ,

There is no reason to comment like that, we are all brothers/sisters here lets try to show some respect to each other.

[231Engine]

You should try to use proper sentence structure and punctuation, it will help you look intelligent. Your comments were uncalled for and it's not clear how they even relate to the subject.

[NonSurfinCaFF]

Could someone explain why you would paint your house with a toothbrush/fight a wildland fire with a shovel when a dozer can be used? Just PC nonsense? It's not 1889, why risk lives, and failure, rather making a serious mechanized attack? Two hands tied behind your back.


I don't know the area in question but if there isn't a likely threat to the public it is not uncommon to use hand tools over a dozer, the priorities for wildland fires typically is Life, followed by Property / Environment, that is not just eco-nuts placing property and environment on the same level, there have been cases where timber or rangeland were allowed to burn to save a structure only to have the property owner upset because the timber / rangeland was worth more than the structure.

Dozers can cause major destruction in certain environments, deserts are one in particular where you will rarely see a dozer unless they are protecting structures, it takes far longer for the dozer line to heal compared to the fire damage, you can still see dozer scars from the 50's in many parts of the southwest.

It may be that this is an area where dozers are seen to cause more harm than good, I mean if you are trying to save a natural area from fire you don't want to be causing more damage than the fire is.

Just as you don't paint a house with a toothbrush you don't want to paint it with an air tanker either