ALF Eagle

[NewJerseyFFII]

The fire department in the next town over just took delivery of there third ALF eagle fire apparatus , any likes -or-dislikes of the ALF trucks you have in service !...Please " NO BASHING ".

[SSHANK42]

We have a 04' Eagle. The first year we had the truck it was in the shop a few months getting things fixed. Some things took more than once to get fixed and the foam was never fixed by Lafrance or FoamPro after several attempts (like 6 tries). The foam system was fixed by a member of the dept. after getting the wiring diagram from the internet. 2 wire we hooked up wrong. The truck is okay now at least functionablity (not sure if that is even a word) wise, paint and lettering still an issue. Most of our problems were with the dealer that sold it to us. He was horrible. We now deal with a different one. He is better, but not great in my opinion. Now if he make the paint and lettering issue go away then all is good. The factory guys were great to work with. The truck was built at the LTI factory in PA. Now the only real complaint I have is the interior noise is incredible, especially when the turbo is working hard. Working on buying headset so that will go away also.

[SPFDRum]

Wow, I was going to post an over/under on when the first post of; "they suck" was posted. It didn't even get that far....

[SSHANK42]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, I did not say it sucked. Just took time to get it right. The dealer is who sucked not the company itself. It would take way to long to explain why the dealer sucks, but company good. I don't like to type that much.

[Yankee750]

Have a 1999 American LaFrance, where do I begin,

Broke fan clutch enroute from factory to our station for intital delivery

While out test driving it after fan clutch was repaired, and before intitial delivery, the drive shaft fell out and ripped apart half the pump.

Delivered with a missing seat!!??????? Let's see, a six man cab with only 5 seats because they could not find one. WTF???????

At first working house fire as primary apparatus at 1am, report of person trapped, broke second fan clutch causing truck to overheat and shutdown. Lost the house thank god there was no one inside.

Had to replace transmission and Engine Temp gauges twice in first year.

Officer's speedometer reading will not stay accurate to speedometer at Driver's position to this day.

Lost fan clutch again at another working fire in 2002

Exhaust brake / engine retarder replaced in 2005

Very loud inside cab

Surface corrosion around the front wheel wells

Terrible HVAC system. Assured by the salesman that we did not need the extra rear HVAC unit. BIIIIG MISTAKE. Windows fog, in the Winter it is cold as the arctic and the summer you might as well just roll down the windows.

At this time I believe that we are on our 7th or 8th fan clutch (I've lost count), our second drive shaft, second exhaust brake, a rebuilt alternator and I have lost track of what else.

Needless to say, NEVER NEVER AGAIN!!!!

But, she sure is pretty!!

And that is exactly what we have, a pretty POS.

[osh599]

We got this truck in January of '04 and it seems as though it has been OOS more than it has been in service.

When we got the truck several items were not taken care of at the factory.

Water Level Guage not installed correctly at factory

Driveshaft was out of balance

Pump cavitated whenever in gear

A/C leaked water in the cab whenever it was running

Whole truck bounces when you get to 25 mph, factory facilities think it is driver error. I've had others who say it is Frame Flexing but tell that to the factory!!

The truck has an 210" W.B on a single rear axle with a GVW of 52k. Our one Pierce truck that has a 198" WB does not have this issue but it also has a dbl frame.

Hydraulic system had a leak within the torque box. To get to the leak the tank had to come out of the truck

Hydraulic line ruptured near the nozzle and had to be replaced. A steel braided line at that!!

It's a nice truck in all. This is our first ALF. We've had Pierce since 1982. The truck looks nice but some of the issues should have been dealt with at the factory.

The air ride front suspension is quite nice. Overall, it is a lot of weight for a single rear axle truck. The telesqurt is very stable and makes for a quick setup.

No matter who you purchase your apparatus from, there will be issues when you get the truck.

No manufacturer will deliver the perfect truck in my opinion.

[mtnfireguy]

2005 ALF 1500gpm Pumper

Problems with the foam system
All the bolts on the fill towers were loose from the factory
Numerous electical problems
Recurring problem with the front spring hangers coming loose
Truck has a distinct lean to the right, no one has figured that one out yet
(could be related to the spring problem)
Have had issues with the windows falling out of the tracks
Have already had several leaks in the piping, one was the tank to pump line

When everything is working, its not a bad truck. But the time it has spent in the shop has really left a bad taste. It has been in the shop the entire week (this week) for electical problems.

[NewJerseyFFII]

2005 ALF 1500gpm Pumper

Problems with the foam system
All the bolts on the fill towers were loose from the factory
Numerous electical problems
Recurring problem with the front spring hangers coming loose
Truck has a distinct lean to the right, no one has figured that one out yet
(could be related to the spring problem)
Have had issues with the windows falling out of the tracks
Have already had several leaks in the piping, one was the tank to pump line

When everything is working, its not a bad truck. But the time it has spent in the shop has really left a bad taste. It has been in the shop the entire week (this week) for electical problems.
Sounds like the newer ALF trucks have more problems than E-one , KME , Smeal , HME, etc !...

[blueflame]

My Fire Dept. has a 2003 100’ Rear Mount ALF/LTI aerial on an Eagle Chassis with a Detroit Diesel 470 HP engine. The truck does over 1000 calls per year and we have had very few problems. The few problems that we had were promptly fixed by the dealer in the firehouse. I must say the firefighters that work on the truck really like it. Some of the issues that have been discussed and appear on this forum are not the fault of ALF who just installs them. We also have Pierce and Seagrave apparatus in our Dept. and they have had similar issues, also not problem free. Our shops perform maintenance on all our vehicles and I strongly believe that if you follow the required maintenance schedules the truck will perform as specified by the manufacturer. One of the best features of the ALF aerial is that it has no electronic controls, just simple hydraulic controls and they work.

[Yankee750]

2005 ALF 1500gpm Pumper


Have had issues with the windows falling out of the tracks


I forgot that one. Had to have the rear passenger side window pulled apart and rebuilt last year. Another one I forgot to mention, we had to have two door springs / stops (the mechanism that they use to keep the door from opening too far) replaced. One of our firefighters got out of the truck one day and wham!!! the rear driver's side door swung all the way around and damaged the drivers door. The other rear door mechanism was bent and on it's last leg. Had them both replaced 2 years ago.

[mtnfireguy]

I forgot that one. Had to have the rear passenger side window pulled apart and rebuilt last year. Another one I forgot to mention, we had to have two door springs / stops (the mechanism that they use to keep the door from opening too far) replaced. One of our firefighters got out of the truck one day and wham!!! the rear driver's side door swung all the way around and damaged the drivers door. The other rear door mechanism was bent and on it's last leg. Had them both replaced 2 years ago.


Do your's lock by themselves when the door is shut hard?

[NewJerseyFFII]

American Lafrance fire apparatus are cheaper to purchase than a Pierce ,E-One , Seagrave , etc. That is why most departments have them is service and they can low bid to get the apparatus contract with a small town or large city where the mayors & taxpayers are looking for the lowest possible price!.

[Yankee750]

Do your's lock by themselves when the door is shut hard?
I have not heard of that one yet. Key word... YET. I'll warn the guys about it though.

[Chief1FF]

We have a 2003 Engine built by their Hamburg facility. We have had a few problems.

1. Fuel Injectors - Detroit problem
2. Generator cooling fan not wired up. - Harrison problem
3. Bent pump shift rod. - Operator error.

Other then that no problems to speak of. It has worked well for us.

[Yankee750]

I got a new one on my truck. Coming back from a call the other night at 4am, we lost the head lights. The driver turned on the high beams and those worked thank god!!! Got back to the station and hey guess what, we got low beams again. Don't know if it is a bad relay or fuse or what but it can now be added to my wonderful list.

[grains]

It looks like all of the apparatus mentioned so far were purchased when Freightliner was in charge.

Has anybody taken delivery of an ALF since it was bought by Patriarch Partners?

[captaincvfd]

It looks like all of the apparatus mentioned so far were purchased when Freightliner was in charge.

Has anybody taken delivery of an ALF since it was bought by Patriarch Partners?
Is that Jim Hebes Group again

[grains]

Is that Jim Hebes Group again

Are you asking me?? I don't know who Jim Hebes is so maybe you have me mixed up with somebody else.

No, I am just curious if ALF has made a turnaround since being bogged down by Freightliner. ALF is one of those American icons that unfortunately got purchased by a company who didn't give a crap about quality. I was hoping that under their new ownership that they could get back to building better trucks.

[chiefengineer11]

Jim Hebe, after "leaving" Freightliner, put together the group that bought Seagrave. After exiting an active role in that group, he became a principal in a large International dealership. I believe that it's in Vancouver, B.C., Canada. That's the last I've heard of him. To the best of my knowledge, he's not in the fire apparatus business at this time.

Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

[grains]

Jim Hebe, after "leaving" Freightliner, put together the group that bought Seagrave. After exiting an active role in that group, he became a principal in a large International dealership. I believe that it's in Vancouver, B.C., Canada. That's the last I've heard of him. To the best of my knowledge, he's not in the fire apparatus business at this time.

Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

Oh, OK.

I'm no expert here, but I don't believe that he is involved here. Patriarch Partners is headed by a gal named Lynn Tilton.

[utfd701]

Sure am glad I stumbled into this thread. I am meeting with the ALF rep today about building our new tanker. It will be a custom truck on a Freightliner chassis. I was thinking he would be higher priced when compaired to the other companies I was looking into (one on a Rosenbauer platform). Will have to watch this closely, great info guys! Keep it coming!

[angfireman]

utfd, contact me by email (bbreiler@arialink.com) in reference to a truck......


Thank you

[chiefengineer11]

Sure am glad I stumbled into this thread.

Don't overlook various posts in "Tanker" thread.

Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

[MurphysFireKC]

Sure am glad I stumbled into this thread. I am meeting with the ALF rep today about building our new tanker. It will be a custom truck on a Freightliner chassis. I was thinking he would be higher priced when compaired to the other companies I was looking into (one on a Rosenbauer platform). Will have to watch this closely, great info guys! Keep it coming!


Keep us posted!

[HSFDChief600]

Have a 2005 ALF Metro. Had an issue with fuel pump on delivery (Cummins Problem) and had 1 wiring issue but that was an oversight when we did final inspection. All in all we love the truck. Our issue has been the local Freightliner Dealership that was supposed to be the service center. I wont even take our FL70 chassis tanker to them anymore.

[canuck1]

Our issue has been the local Freightliner Dealership that was supposed to be the service center. I wont even take our FL70 chassis tanker to them anymore.

what sort of problems have you had with the dealer that you won;t even bring a Freightliner to them?

[mcaldwell]

We have two new ALF's on Commercial M2 Chassis with mercedes 300hp deisels. A 2004 Engine, and a 2005 65' Telesqurt.

Overall, good trucks and we are happy with thier performance, but we did have a few relatively minor headaches related to fit and finish and drivetrain electrical.

The engine was the most troublesome and required three warranty service visits in the first six months. It had the following issues:

-Door and floor panels improperly installed (broken at ALF factory), so doors would jam.
-Frequent and random engine warning lights including several critical warning lights that caused automatic engine shutdown (Mercedes problem).
-Loose electrical connections on wiring harness that caused additional critical fault codes.
-Engine temp sensor improperly calibrated (another Mercedes problem), so over temp buzzer rang frequently.
-Cab storage compartment did not have the safety chain installed correctly, so we inadvertently smashed the console lights on the first call.


On the aerial:

-Faulty Hydraulic Control Valve that leaked since new.
-Similar intermittent electrical fault codes as the engine (not as serious).
-Very intermittent transmission interlock code that prevented truck from starting twice.
-Air system leaks badly, so brakes and cab air down in an hour or two when shut off.
-Remote control for aerial was partially wired backwards (left toggle moved right, etc.).
-Rear tires were improperly mounted such that the outside rim was rotated one nut off, and you couldn't access the inner valve stem.


So all-in-all pretty mild stuff, and we have gotten it all fixed now (except the air system leak). A neighbouring dept has a similar 2004 unit, and it has suffered a few gearbox problems, but again, that's a Part Supplier/Freightliner issue.

I would not knock ALF any more than the other mid-level manufacturers. Like all trucks, I would just reccomend a good break in period to shakedown any problems early.

[HSFDChief600]

what sort of problems have you had with the dealer that you won;t even bring a Freightliner to them?

Well when I called and made an appointment to bring the tanker in for AC work on a Sat the guy at the service desk wouldn't even look at it because he had a full shop when I took it. Although it was scheduled,they still wouldnt look at it. When we took in the Metro to get the wiring issue (we missed rig not having in cab warning light for Scene lights that extend pass the cab) it shows up...same story (only Fire Truck Mech was put on a road truck) My guy wasted an entire day there and had to come back the next day. Have continued to send us bills for that work which is warranty.
The whole issue is they work on over the road trucks and could care less how fast you need your rig back,Front line or not,they just dont give a rats A** till they want their money.

[NewJerseyFFII]

That is why you can buy the best fire apparatus in the world , spend a million dollars it and it won't be worth a penny if it got problems & the dealer service " STINKS " !!!

[HSFDChief600]

That is why you can buy the best fire apparatus in the world , spend a million dollars it and it won't be worth a penny if it got problems & the dealer service " STINKS " !!!


That is just a Freightliner service center. They did not sell us the truck. We have an alternate source that will be handling any warranty issues.

[NewJerseyFFII]

That is good to " hear " , there is nothing worst than poor dealer service after the sale! We have a very good ALF dealership in our area of central N.J. it is ( Campbell Suppy Co. ) they service all makes & model fire apparatus. They were a Seagrave dealership about 10 years ago that took care of all the F.D.N.Y. fire trucks!....

[NewJerseyFFII]

Any firefighters, departments have information on the base price of a new 75' ALF/LTI MM Platform apparatus with NO PUMP / OR TANK. The same type of apparatus in the photo below, and also a possible web site for ALF pricing!!

[RAMFIRE42]

A Local Dept just purchased an demo ladder from ALF. Im note sure the exact price but I know that there were considerable savings. Check out the website and also call a local sales rep for info on demo's not listed. I believe your dealer would be www.campbellsupply.com

http://www.americanlafrance.com/interior.asp?n=65&p=5&s=65&y=1&x=47

Also my dept just ordered a new custom chassis liberty pumper tanker from ALF. For some reason Lafrance doen't update the liberty website. If anyone has any pictures of ALF Liberty trucks please post them or email me at ramfire42@atlanticbb.net

[NewJerseyFFII]

A Local Dept just purchased an demo ladder from ALF. Im note sure the exact price but I know that there were considerable savings. Check out the website and also call a local sales rep for info on demo's not listed. I believe your dealer would be www.campbellsupply.com

http://www.americanlafrance.com/interior.asp?n=65&p=5&s=65&y=1&x=47

Also my dept just ordered a new custom chassis liberty pumper tanker from ALF. For some reason Lafrance doen't update the liberty website. If anyone has any pictures of ALF Liberty trucks please post them or email me at ramfire42@atlanticbb.netI think that the savings on a demo is about 5-10 % less than a new truck. we can only fit a 75 foot aerial in our apparatus bay, I am only checking out prices at this time. A new truck is a few years away! Thanks, for the information NJFFII .

[RareRamAir]

Any firefighters, departments have information on the base price of a new 75' ALF/LTI MM Platform apparatus with NO PUMP / OR TANK. The same type of apparatus in the photo below, and also a possible web site for ALF pricing!!

Listed for $622,408 on HGAC.

[NewJerseyFFII]

Listed for $622,408 on HGAC.Is that the state contract price for a base unit without any options like , 10K gen, Led lights , Q2 , raised roof, etc. !...Thanks, for your help ! NJFFII

[RareRamAir]

Is that the state contract price for a base unit without any options like , 10K gen, Led lights , Q2 , raised roof, etc. !...Thanks, for your help ! NJFFII


No idea what options that includes. Sorry I can't be of more help. you can try contacting these salesmen to see what they have to say.

AMERICAN LAFRANCE DEALERS:
American LaFrance Gulf Coast
Contact: Scott Hornberger Ph: 800-299-4200
Email: shornberger@alfgulfcoast.com Fx: 713-580-8136

American LaFrance of El Paso Ph: 505-833-1000
Contact: Ted Parsons Fx: 505-833-1064
Email: TPARSONS@ABQFREIGHTLINER.NET

[MurphysFireKC]

Is that the state contract price for a base unit without any options like , 10K gen, Led lights , Q2 , raised roof, etc. !...Thanks, for your help ! NJFFII

You can add up to 25% to the contract price for options on HGAC.