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fireman22080
03-28-2007, 04:53 PM
Anyone got any experince with the new nomex/kevlar pants? They are 7oz advantage. I bought some and just wondering what to expect. do you use them as overpants or just like jeans ?

THanks

Thomas
the1141man
03-28-2007, 09:59 PM
Advance is a really good material, and I'm really happy to see it come to Wildland PPE.
As I understand it, there are a couple different models of pants being marketed right now... one is "dual-certified" as NFPA 1977 (Wildland) and NFPA 19xx (whatever the number, I forget, but for Stationwear), and is intended for "stand-alone" wear.
The pants you see at firecache.com and those sites are generally meant to be overpants--worn over your regular work/station pants, as with most brush gear.
NonSurfinCaFF
03-28-2007, 11:45 PM
It really depends on what style you got. The stuff aimed at the Feds is meant to be worn as pants, the stuff aimed at volunteers and California is designed to be worn over your regular pants.

I've heard mixed results of these pants, some people love the added durability but many complain they are too hot.
volfireman034
03-29-2007, 01:59 AM
Our Dept tested a few pairs of the Advance pants that are pull overs and we love them. Lightweight and wear well. We just order enough for the whole dept.
Bowbreaker
03-29-2007, 02:09 AM
Thomas,

I have the kind you wear like jeans. When I got the first pair of Advance pants I thought I had really messed up. They were heavy, stiff, and hot compared to nomex. It takes wearing them and washing them several times to break them in. Now I have several pairs of advance pants. After they are broke in they are only slightly warmer to wear than nomex and just as comfortable but a whole lot more durable for me.

I have the same pants in nomex and advance from the same vender. I wear the advance pairs most of the time. Don't give up on them the 1st time you wear them.

Brad
BuzzCut1
03-29-2007, 11:52 PM
It really depends on what style you got. The stuff aimed at the Feds is meant to be worn as pants, the stuff aimed at volunteers and California is designed to be worn over your regular pants.

I've heard mixed results of these pants, some people love the added durability but many complain they are too hot.

yeah we just got issued the new lightweight nomex over shirts and pants from Cal Fire. Much lighter than our older stuff but I tried it out at a large burn pile that we lit off and it works well, it was good to about 15 feet from these flames
the1141man
03-30-2007, 02:24 AM
yeah we just got issued the new lightweight nomex over shirts and pants from Cal Fire. Much lighter than our older stuff but I tried it out at a large burn pile that we lit off and it works well, it was good to about 15 feet from these flames

No offense, but that looks like a PhotoChop job...
The last brush fire I ran (bout 3 weeks ago--not quite "the season" here yet), which had flames not even quite that high, I was really feelin the heat...and I wasn't even close to 15 feet away from it. This with 7.5 oz Nomex... I think I'd much rather have the Advance gear for the next one of those.
NonSurfinCaFF
03-30-2007, 02:43 AM
No offense, but that looks like a PhotoChop job...
The last brush fire I ran (bout 3 weeks ago--not quite "the season" here yet), which had flames not even quite that high, I was really feelin the heat...and I wasn't even close to 15 feet away from it. This with 7.5 oz Nomex... I think I'd much rather have the Advance gear for the next one of those.

I'm guessing its an optical illusion caused by a telephoto lens like the photo a couple years ago where it looks the the SP2H tanker is about to plow into the grond behind some overhead on a ridge.

He says he was 15 feet away while the photo makes it look like 3 feet away.
BuzzCut1
03-30-2007, 02:50 AM
No offense, but that looks like a PhotoChop job...
The last brush fire I ran (bout 3 weeks ago--not quite "the season" here yet), which had flames not even quite that high, I was really feelin the heat...and I wasn't even close to 15 feet away from it. This with 7.5 oz Nomex... I think I'd much rather have the Advance gear for the next one of those.

really now?

As a service to our community we light off their communal brush pile 2-4 times per burn season, It's quite the bonfire. Here are the other pics from that morning
lighting the pile
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/Eric1218/Img_0222.jpg

flame on
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/Eric1218/Img_0222.jpg

looking from the other side
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/Eric1218/Img_0222.jpg
BuzzCut1
03-30-2007, 02:57 AM
Doh I hate the fact that you can't edit...3 of the same pic DOH
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/Eric1218/Img_0225.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b217/Eric1218/Img_0231.jpg
the1141man
03-30-2007, 05:27 AM
really now?

As a service to our community we light off their communal brush pile 2-4 times per burn season, It's quite the bonfire. Here are the other pics from that morning


*shrug* Hey, I said it looked like, not WAS, no need to get defensive or upset about it.

Now as for standing 15 feet from that and not feelin it, you must've been wearing some heavy duty jeans and shirt under that Nomex. Kevlar boxers, perhaps? ;) :D
BuzzCut1
03-30-2007, 11:54 AM
*shrug* Hey, I said it looked like, not WAS, no need to get defensive or upset about it.

Now as for standing 15 feet from that and not feelin it, you must've been wearing some heavy duty jeans and shirt under that Nomex. Kevlar boxers, perhaps? ;) :D


ah I see the issue..heck yes I was feeling the heat. 15 ft was a close as I could stand the heat but not for more that a minute. the whole point was finding out the what I could do in the new stuff in a totally safe environment
the1141man
03-31-2007, 03:30 PM
ah I see the issue..heck yes I was feeling the heat. 15 ft was a close as I could stand the heat but not for more that a minute. the whole point was finding out the what I could do in the new stuff in a totally safe environment

Yeah--good thing to know before you have to find out "the hard way". ;)

I have the "shirt"-style Nomex right now, not really liking that too much. :o
Bowbreaker
03-31-2007, 06:46 PM
The nice thing about nomex is it lets you know when you have been too close to the fire. It chars. You throw it away and buy new. I have several pairs of nomex pants with too many burned spots to be safe. So far the Advace pants don't burn as easily or maybe I stay out of the heat better. The Advance fabric resists cuts and snags better also.

Brad
NonSurfinCaFF
03-31-2007, 07:04 PM
The nice thing about nomex is it lets you know when you have been too close to the fire. It chars. You throw it away and buy new. I have several pairs of nomex pants with too many burned spots to be safe. So far the Advace pants don't burn as easily or maybe I stay out of the heat better. The Advance fabric resists cuts and snags better also.

Brad

Advance has an ignition temp a couple hundred degree's higher than Nomex, so you are much less likely to burn it and walk away. IIRC from the sales brochures for structure gear Nomex burns at 900 degrees, Advance (nomex / kevlar blend) around 1100 degrees and PBI at 1300 degrees.
the1141man
04-01-2007, 12:23 PM
The nice thing about nomex is it lets you know when you have been too close to the fire. It chars. You throw it away and buy new. I have several pairs of nomex pants with too many burned spots to be safe. So far the Advace pants don't burn as easily or maybe I stay out of the heat better. The Advance fabric resists cuts and snags better also.

Brad

Oh believe me--our structure gear is Advance and it can absolutely char. It just takes a higher temp and longer exposure than straight Nomex to do so.
The main advantage of Advance brush gear that I can see (aside from the slightly higher char/TPP stats) is what was already mentioned: it's a much "tougher" material and resists tearing far better than pure Nomex, even in the 7.5oz "heavyweight" style Nomex.