Clarification for Vehicle Applicants

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Just heard back from DHS on this: under the vehicle category where you report how much of your budget goes for vehicle purchases that is ONLY capital savings. It is NOT the % of your budget going to debt for existing vehicles, it is money you're putting away.

Oh, and be prepared to prove it if you think dropping that amount will help beat the computer. :)

Onward....

[Not2L84U2]

If you're going after a pumper/tanker to replace a pumper and a tanker, then in your drop down list, would you select type I, type II, or type IV engine under the tanker listings? Or what would you select...not sure on the difference classifications.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Hafta dig for that one. Don't have any open truck apps so I can't get to the screen without having the rest of the app filled out. If there's no pumper-tanker choice then it's tanker. It will get lumped in with your engines if it's got a pump 750gpm or bigger for argument's sake.

[Culpster]

So, am I to assume if we are going to go after a rescue boat that is over 13' long, we are to do it under vehicle accustion???

[onebugle]

That's correct a boat 13" or less is equipment, greater than 13' a vehicle application.

[Greenacres2]

That's correct a boat 13" or less is equipment, greater than 13' a vehicle application.

What about boats between 13" and 13'????? :D

Rare to catch onebugle with a typo!! Carpe Diem!!!

earl

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Are the carpe running now? I thought it was trout season.

Great, y'all got me thinking about boats and fishing. No time to daydream, gotta type, gotta type.

[onebugle]

;) What about boats between 13" and 13'????? :D

Rare to catch onebugle with a typo!! Carpe Diem!!!

earl


I must have been thinking about the Minnow that got away......or was it the 3 hour tour.:D

Another reason to have someone proof read, before hitting submit.;)

[AC1503]

A friend told me that he caught a Red Snapper in a southern Indiana creek. I thought that it was just another fish story. He finally admitted that he thought that it was a Red Snapper, but that it turned out to be a Carp with high blood pressure.

[Not2L84U2]

If you're going after a pumper/tanker to replace a pumper and a tanker, then in your drop down list, would you select type I, type II, or type IV engine under the tanker listings? Or what would you select...not sure on the difference classifications.

Still trying to figure out what to select...anyone else have any insight?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Engine: (Pumper, Wagon and Foam-Pumper) an apparatus equipped with a fire pump of at least 750 gpm capacity, water tank with a minimum of 300 gallons. The apparatus must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with NFPA Standard 1901. Variations include:

Tanker: (Tender, Tanker) a vehicle designed to transport large quantities of water to fires in areas without an adequate and reliable public water system. Tank sizes are normally 1000 gallons or greater with a pump with less than 750 gpm capacity and the vehicle must be manufactured and equipped in accordance with NFPA Standard 1901 for tanker. The vehicle may or may not be equipped with a fire pump.

Looks like it depends on which section of the standard it meets, and if both then you can choose pumper or tanker. The Type 1-3 under tanker is for wildland tankers. If you click the Help link off to the right it gives the pop-up window with the explanattions of each type. Think that's the clearest I've ever seen the wildland pumper and tanker types explained. Copying that into a Word doc for future reference. :)

[Not2L84U2]

Thanks Brian! I swear I looked for a help link and I've been sitting here all morning reading the PG guidance (only half way through...) I must have just over looked it. Thanks again for the clarification...definitely don't want to apply for a wildland tanker.

[SMNFirefighter]

How do I state that my department doesn't put any money away towards a truck but the city does have a truck/equipment fund? Just list it in my narrative under the city budget. Thanks

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

If the city buys your trucks and it's not part of the FD budget on the books showing that it goes to the FD then the statistic piece is 0% and correct, mention it in your narrative that they buy them.

If the city budget for the FD shows a capital fund then it will need to be in both spots.

[Station32]

Okay, I have had some excellent luck with the operations and equipment end in the last two years and this year plan to submit a vehicle application but I have a few big questions still to tackle.

First Question:
In a rural community what has the highest priority Pumper or Tanker, and what are the price limits ?

Second Question:
Is it better to ask for a new pumper to expand your mission area or to replace an existing piece that demonstrates an obvious safety hazard (i.e. Open cab with no seat belts and hydraulic brakes) I have heard before that the have nots get funded before the replacements ?

Third Question:
What would be good points to include in the narrative, I have already read a lot of the NFPA Annex D and NFPA 1901 codes and found several good points for firefighter safety.

Fourth Question:
If your department does not set aside money to replace apparatus over time. Do you have a vehicle replacement expense of 0%

Any help in any of these areas would be greatly appreciated. -Robert

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

#1 pumper normally but depends on your situation. People that have higher statistical needs for tankers will outscore some pumper apps.

#2 Replacement

#3 On the right track

#4 Correct

[sarg77]

We are going to try for a first time Quick Attack/Brush/Light Duty Rescue vehicle. Is it better to say First Time for a new mission or First Time for excisting missions ? Any other helpful hints or ideas ?
Jeff

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

If you have a vehicle(s) that does any of the functions this truck will then it's a replacement. Even if it has more features, that just goes to the cost-benefit of replacing the other unit.

[sarg77]

Not replacing any trucks with this. Have 1 pumper,1 tanker and 1 Heavy Rescue truck. Will be adding this to our departments vehicle.

[4caster]

Fourth Question:
If your department does not set aside money to replace apparatus over time. Do you have a vehicle replacement expense of 0%



#4 Correct

OK Brian, help me understand. The beginning of this thread said that if you put 0%, you'd better have a bulletproof argument (not verbatim). I took that as to say put something other than zero to show good faith effort into trying to replace. Our department barely has enough to pay day to day, let alone replacement of trucks.

So, my original battleplan was to say zero and really sell it in the narrative. Should I switch to a different course of action or remain?

[wtfd2940]

Ok can someone clarify the brush truck requirements. What is the difference between brush truck and patrol unit (i'm guessing its the slide in pump). So if I am looking at a brush truck with a slide in or platform mounted pump its a patrol unit? Why are the below units ineligible. I want to make sure what I want to speck isn't ineligilble. I would guess if it meets the spec of one of the units below its not good. They certainly don't make this easy.

Ineligible Wildland fire engine types
Type Gallons capacity Gallons per minute (GPM) Crew size minimum
1 400 1000@150psi 4
2 400 500@150psi 3
3 500 120@250psi 3
4 750 70@100psi 3
5 400 50@100psi 3
6 150 30@100psi 3
7 50 50@100psi 3

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Think you misread the page, those are all eligible. The only ineligible vehicles are Bulldozer and aircraft.

[wtfd2940]

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.....haha it makes so much more sense now. They kind of made it look like everything under that point was ineligible. Thanks.

What is the difference between brush truck and patrol unit. It seems like its just the slide in pump. I'm looking at a skid mounted pump but I think I should clasify it as brush not patrol. Seems a little odd.

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Same truck, different terms. Just like tanker/tender.

[onebugle]

The application has the following when you account for the number of apparatus that you have.

Brush/Quick attack :
Brush Truck, Patrol Unit (Pick up w/ Skid Unit), Quick Attack Unit, Mini-Pumper, Type IV, Type V, Type VI Engine

They classify the partol unit as a P/U w/a skid unit. We replaced what they term as a patrol unit, even though we called it a brush truck and replaced with something more substantial than a P/U.

[celsokid]

Our department pays $35,000 a year toward debt on a loan for an engine purchased in 2000 and an ambulance bought in 2003. No money is being set aside for future purchases of vehicles because our budget has been consistantly exhausted. It still seems strange to me to put 0% in the category for vehicle replacement considering the fact that it is a present tense question and we currently are spending 44% of our budget on past vehicle replacements. Are you sure this is accurate?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Correct. They want to know how much is being saved for future trucks. And if you're paying kinda hard to save. Plus if you're already paying on newer trucks shows that you're solving some problems on your own and your fleet age is younger. So someone that has a 2000 pumper and 2003 ambulance that is putting 20% of their budget away on top of paying the loans will score lower than you because they obviously have more free money.

[McCurdy82]

Hey guys im new to the forum and i need alot of help. I need some help or some helpful hints on writing a narrative for a new Engine truck. If anybody could help me and point me in the right way.

[CaptainGonzo]

If the city buys your trucks and it's not part of the FD budget on the books showing that it goes to the FD then the statistic piece is 0% and correct, mention it in your narrative that they buy them.

If the city budget for the FD shows a capital fund then it will need to be in both spots.

We have the same situation: the FD has the standard operating budget, any vehicle purchases comes from the city's Capital Improvement budget, which covers any and all city vehicles from police cruisers to front end loaders for the DPW... so how would I put that in the box?

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

If it's not in your budget to have control over then it's not reported. That's a general pot that they're sticking money into, not the you as the FD putting that money in. In that case you're 0 also.

[CaptainGonzo]

If it's not in your budget to have control over then it's not reported. That's a general pot that they're sticking money into, not the you as the FD putting that money in. In that case you're 0 also.

Thank you for the information!

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

No problem.

Hey, 2800 more posts and I can hit Gonzo-Post Level. Do we get a restaurant discount for that? :D

[deputychief1441]

we have a 1977 telesquirt, trying to get quint, 0 replacement budget and we have approx 700-800 calls per year, we had to take the telesquirt out of service could not afford to repair leak on turn table. any good hints or comments
Also is applying for a operations and safety, and vehicle acquisition (since i guess u can now) hurt you at all , since they are seperate apps



thanks have learned a lot from all of your info

[deputychief1441]

we also have a 1989 & 1999 Class A , is the 99 to new or do you think we will be OK




Thanks again

[BC79er_OLDDELETE]

Fleet age is a prime scoring point, but age of replacement truck is also a factor. If that's the only vehicle you need might as well go for it. Worst they can say is no.

And all apps are mutually exclusive, they won't compete against each other.