New firefighting "Super Glove"?

[badge13]

Im always in the market for a new firefighting glove and saw an ad for a new glove called Super Glove made by Total Fire Group. Does anyone have any experience with them?
Im sure theyre not cheap and I dont want to spend a bunch of money on something new without some sort of feedback.

[KEEPBACK200FEET]

Im always in the market for a new firefighting glove and saw an ad for a new glove called Super Glove made by Total Fire Group. Does anyone have any experience with them?
Im sure theyre not cheap and I dont want to spend a bunch of money on something new without some sort of feedback.

I know the Total Fire Group tried to assassinate the Pro-Tech 8. While I've never tried their product, I can say good things about the Pro-Tech's.

[Kazak61]

I've tried the Super Glove and it is the best feeling glove I've ever worn. They tend to run a little bigger than a normal glove - I wear a large, normally, but a medium fits me really well - so make sure you try on a couple of sizes. The grip is excellent, too, and they seem to pretty tough, too.

The Protech-8 glove really bothers me. I can't see how that glove could possibly pass NFPA. It has a polyester lining in it that melts way below 500 degrees. So how can that glove be good for firefighters to wear? Sure, it feels great, but if the standard says the lining can't melt, drip or burn then why would Protech use polyester except that it is cheap? And it is made in Pakistan, too.

[MarcusKspn]

I've tried the Super Glove and it is the best feeling glove I've ever worn. They tend to run a little bigger than a normal glove - I wear a large, normally, but a medium fits me really well - so make sure you try on a couple of sizes. The grip is excellent, too, and they seem to pretty tough, too.

The Protech-8 glove really bothers me. I can't see how that glove could possibly pass NFPA. It has a polyester lining in it that melts way below 500 degrees. So how can that glove be good for firefighters to wear? Sure, it feels great, but if the standard says the lining can't melt, drip or burn then why would Protech use polyester except that it is cheap? And it is made in Pakistan, too.

The glove did pass the standards.

Here is the trick, as you mentioned the polyester lining is inside the glove. It is covered up by all the layers that keep the heat out of the glove. What is the temperature that will start doing damage to skin. If you have to worry about polyester melting, what is already happening to the skin on your hand.

And what does Pakistan have to do with any of this, and where is the SuperGlove made?

All I could find on their side is this:

Sizes Will Not be Restocked
Over Slow Boats from
Distant Sites

So what, are they made in Brazil and come on a train. Believe me, if they were Made in the USA, in this day and age, they would stamp that all over the add's.

[npfd801]

And what does Pakistan have to do with any of this, and where is the SuperGlove made?

All I could find on their side is this:

Sizes Will Not be Restocked
Over Slow Boats from
Distant Sites

So what, are they made in Brazil and come on a train. Believe me, if they were Made in the USA, in this day and age, they would stamp that all over the add's.

I'm not defending the Total Fire glove, but you took the above statements out of context. This is their slam on the Pro Tech gloves, and their brochure indicates the StuperGlove will be made domestically. (Bottom right, page 1, link below.)

http://www.firewear.com/SuperGloveBrochure.pdf

Having said that - we wear the ProTech and have had no problems. We had a hot enough fire that the nozzleman burned his ears under his hood, but his hands were fine. If they were that bad I'm sure he would have had some burns to his hands.

Everyone seems so hell bent on more TPP in everything, at what point is it too much? You have gear that has a high TPP, so you can't feel the heat. So you use your ears under your hood or your gloved hand as an indicator of things getting too hot. Wait, you now have a higher TPP carbon hood or a Reed hood, and then what? We'll use the gloved hand to read for too much heat. Make the gloves even more resistant to letting heat get through, then what? Maybe we should mount an oven thermometer to our facepieces.

I'm all for product improvement, and people will (I'm sure) flock to the Super Glove because its a Total Fire product. My personal take on anything Total Fire - they are a marketing machine that does everything it can to slam and negative sell other products, especially if it is felt they pose a serious threat to their business. They make good stuff, but they aren't the only ones that do - and the arrogance of their inside sales staff (I've dealt with condescending folks two years straight in Indy when asking about their products in their booth), which has basically turned me off to buying the stuff.

A trusted source that has worn them says these new gloves are an improvement over traditional firefighting gloves. They are still bulkier and not nearly as "tactile" as the ProTechs. I'll likely trial a pair of the SuperGloves, so if they are all they're cracked up to be, I'll eat crow with the best of them.

Oh, and if Total Fire releases info that every component of everything they sell is American made, then I'll tolerate the made in Pakistan comment. Parts of our MSA SCBAs are German, are they junk?

[Remthedays]

I've tried the Super Glove and it is the best feeling glove I've ever worn. They tend to run a little bigger than a normal glove - I wear a large, normally, but a medium fits me really well - so make sure you try on a couple of sizes. The grip is excellent, too, and they seem to pretty tough, too.

The Protech-8 glove really bothers me. I can't see how that glove could possibly pass NFPA. It has a polyester lining in it that melts way below 500 degrees. So how can that glove be good for firefighters to wear? Sure, it feels great, but if the standard says the lining can't melt, drip or burn then why would Protech use polyester except that it is cheap? And it is made in Pakistan, too.

I am waiting for a local department to give a report on the Pro Tech 8 to see if we will be ordering any. So far the reports have been good.


And Kazak61 do you work for Total Fire or another equipment company?

T.J.

[KEEPBACK200FEET]

I've tried the Super Glove and it is the best feeling glove I've ever worn. They tend to run a little bigger than a normal glove - I wear a large, normally, but a medium fits me really well - so make sure you try on a couple of sizes. The grip is excellent, too, and they seem to pretty tough, too.

The Protech-8 glove really bothers me. I can't see how that glove could possibly pass NFPA. It has a polyester lining in it that melts way below 500 degrees. So how can that glove be good for firefighters to wear? Sure, it feels great, but if the standard says the lining can't melt, drip or burn then why would Protech use polyester except that it is cheap? And it is made in Pakistan, too.

Total Fire Group held a 600 degree blowtorch to the inner lining of the Pro-Tech's, and, of course, it melted. If the environment inside your glove reaches 600 degrees, your hand won't be worth $hit anyway. I had an instructor (and statewide distributor (whom I didn't purchase mine from))show me a pair of prototype Pro-Tech's that have over 100 hours of live fire training that he hasn't had any problems with. I think that I would trust a company like Tech-Trade over a company resorting to a smear-campaign like Total Fire Group. Here is the conclusion on the inquiry by Total Fire Group:

http://store01.prostores.com/theillinoisfirestore/protech8/protech8investigation.pdf

[MemphisE34a]

Total Fire Group held a 600 degree blowtorch to the inner lining of the Pro-Tech's, and, of course, it melted. If the environment inside your glove reaches 600 degrees, your hand won't be worth $hit anyway. I had an instructor (and statewide distributor (whom I didn't purchase mine from))show me a pair of prototype Pro-Tech's that have over 100 hours of live fire training that he hasn't had any problems with. I think that I would trust a company like Tech-Trade over a company resorting to a smear-campaign like Total Fire Group.
Although I completely understand what you are saying, keep in mind that NO product is made by Total Fire Group. They are a marketing firm that represents products made by several companies - Morning Pride, Pro-Warrington, Ranger, and American Firewear (who actually manufacturers this glove) just to name a few.

[JohnVBFD]

Total Fire Group held a 600 degree blowtorch to the inner lining of the Pro-Tech's, and, of course, it melted. If the environment inside your glove reaches 600 degrees, your hand won't be worth $hit anyway.

Eh, kind of off topic:

I Tig weld, and no I am not sticking my hand right under the tungsten, but the area around torch is easily around 600 degrees as it is usually about 1200+ under the torch. I know Tig gloves don't melt, but they are not thick like structural gloves.

[DFDMAXX]

I talked to a dealer last week that told me that the super glove costs $100 per pair. She also stated numerous problems getting orders filled due to large initial demand and low supply.

[MemphisE34a]

I talked to a dealer last week that told me that the super glove costs $100 per pair. She also stated numerous problems getting orders filled due to large initial demand and low supply.
They are a little cheaper here. Not sure about the availability.

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/category.cfm/cid_1742_american_firewear/

[KEEPBACK200FEET]

Although I completely understand what you are saying, keep in mind that NO product is made by Total Fire Group. They are a marketing firm that represents products made by several companies - Morning Pride, Pro-Warrington, Ranger, and American Firewear (who actually manufacturers this glove) just to name a few.

I understand what your saying. Sorry if I confused anyone into thinking that TFG is a manufacturer rather than a marketing firm.

Eh, kind of off topic:

I Tig weld, and no I am not sticking my hand right under the tungsten, but the area around torch is easily around 600 degrees as it is usually about 1200+ under the torch. I know Tig gloves don't melt, but they are not thick like structural gloves.

What would happen though if you introduced that blowtorch into your glove? That's what I'm saying. Fire gloves are made to keep the heat from the source out and TFG introduced the heat source into the glove. Kind of a flawed test if you ask me.

[JohnVBFD]

What would happen though if you introduced that blowtorch into your glove? That's what I'm saying. Fire gloves are made to keep the heat from the source out and TFG introduced the heat source into the glove. Kind of a flawed test if you ask me.

Not disagreeing :) I was just refering to dorking your hand up at 600 degrees. There are thinner gloves that can shield the hand from radiant heat up to 600 :)

These are the gloves the Navy provides us:

[KEEPBACK200FEET]

Not disagreeing :) I was just refering to dorking your hand up at 600 degrees. There are thinner gloves that can shield the hand from radiant heat up to 600 :)

These are the gloves the Navy provides us:

I have a pair of old welding gloves my dad had for his arc welder. Looks similar, but I'm sure those are wayyy up to date.:cool:

[LtJohns355]

I tried the pro-techs... and compared to anything else i've had, I feel like I could operate with them on. They did seem a little on the thin side but they have more layers than traditional gloves. I may be wrong but I think that is where they get there name from (pro-tech 8's).

I wear the kangaroo convertable cuff, next to the pro-tech, its the most comfortable glove I've used so far.


Oh I did try the chiba flame fighter.... I felt like I should have been working on power lines or somthing! lol

[acado64]

Although I completely understand what you are saying, keep in mind that NO product is made by Total Fire Group. They are a marketing firm that represents products made by several companies - Morning Pride, Pro-Warrington, Ranger, and American Firewear (who actually manufacturers this glove) just to name a few.

Memphis,

FYI Total Fire Group is a marketing company, but the companies they represent (Morning Pride, Ranger, Servus, Pro-Warrington, American Firewear, etc) are all owned by the same company as Total Fire Group (i.e. North Safety Products). So ultimately, they may have different names, but they are all one and the same under the owner, North Safety Products. Sort of like Chrysler offering different brands of cars under the same company. The names may change but in the end it is all North Safety Products.

Stay safe.

[CaptWMFD]

Let me start by telling you I work for Morning Pride, another Total Fire Group company like American FireWear that makes the Super Glove. Some of the posts have familiar names and I feel are also manufacturers, so guys/gals beware. At least, I am being upfront. Even given my employment, I am writing as a Captain in suburban Dayton, not for my employer. TRY the Super Glove, it is 3D like your hand so your hand does not have to fight with a 2Dimensional "pancake "and AMF makes 2 D gloves too. I think you will see for yourself, that the difference is startling. You get the dexterity of a very thin glove BUT with Crosstech and Kevlar/Nomex; you do not compromise protection to get it. Sorry, if anyone feels that we have "smeared" ProTech but we feel we owe it to the fire service to show them that glove's liner after required NFPA testing, and other things we see as problems. Total letsFDs bring gloves to our lab and test for themselves, so call us if you want to observe NFPA testing yourself. Other labs have shared the same results we had on Protech with NFPA as well, we believe there will be further investigation. Cut apart your ProTech gloves and just look at the inner layers, we have found what looks like ladies blouse material and differing constructions within one pair. But the good news is that with the Super Glove you can have dexterity with the thermally stable materials that the North American fire service has always used. And for me personally, made in Pakistan IS an issue. N. American PPE should be made in N. America, so the manufacturer and his asset are available in the event of problems. And yes it is a pricey glove but kangaroo has long wear life, and at about $80 retail in most cases I have seen...it is in the ball park. Finally, supply is tight I have seen but we are up to close to 1,000 pair per week production so getting better. Let me know what you think when you try the glove, and BE SAFE.

[sv1332]

Just recieved mine today after ordering through thefirestore.com back in June so there is a long delay, but in just putting the glove on you can feel a difference. No more fighting trying to put the glove on your hand. Although I have seen no fire with this glove it has the same feel of a traditional fire glove but with more dexterity. Not near the dexterity of the ProTech, but it is alot better versus the traditional. I also had a pair of the ProTechs and after two fires you could the fabric deteriorating and the leather palm ripped very badly including all of one fingers after one month of use. I will let you all know how it performs once we catch a fire, although it may be a while.

[dfjordan]

Let's set the record straight on Pro-Tech 8 Gloves instead of believing propaganda from jealous competitors. You must fully understand the source of this CaptWMVD. The Capt already admits he works for Morning Pride/Total Fire Group. In addition he is from West Milton F.D. (WMFD) outside of Dayton, OH. The chief of the West Milton F.D. is Bill Grilliot who is also the president of Total Fire Group/American Firewear, maker of the "Super Glove". Capt. WMVD says he is "writing as a Captain in Suburban Dayton, not for my employer". Are you kidding??

He talks about imported Pro-Tech 8 Gloves. Fact is the Kevlar and Nomex in the Pro-Tech 8 which are the glove's main components are made in the U.S.A., these components are sent oversears for final assembly.

The "Super Glove" from Total Fire Group and other of their models use kangaroo leather which is imported into the U.S., however these gloves are still allowed to be labeled "Made in U.S.", is there so much difference here? Why doesn't CaptWMFD say North American PPE should always use components made in North America?

The Pro-Tech 8 Glove is compliant to the NFPA 1971-2007 edition standard, period! Check the Safety Equipment Institute website for verification.

Capt WMFD/Total Fire Group says they "smear" the Pro-Tech 8 out of concern for firefighter safety!

Let's talk honestly about commitment to Firefighter Safety! Below are the exact word for word minutes from a previous NFPA 1976 (Proximity Firefighting) committee meeting. Bill Grilliot President of Morning Pride-Total Fire Group/Chief WMFD is a committee member. According to the public record of the minutes below, Mr. Grilliot recommended to reduce the TPP rating in a certain area of firefighting gloves from 35 to 20. In the minutes of this meeting the NFPA committee rejected MR. Grilliot's submit for the obvious reasons of concern for firefighter safety. Please read their exact comments below:


1976-13 Log #13 FAE-SPF Final Action: Reject
(5.3.6)

Submitter Bill Grilliot, Morning Pride Mfg L.L.C.
Recommendation: Add to end of paragraph:
"The area of the glove body that is located between the plane of the glove palm and the glove back, as well as being between the index finger and the middle finger, the middle finger and the ring finger, the ring finger and the little finger shall have an average TPP rating of at least 20."
Substantiation: The bending and flexing of the glove finger area is one of the big barriers to dexterity. If a lighter material would be utilized in the protected areas between the fingers one could increase dexterity greatly.
Committee Meeting Action: Reject
Committee Statement: The Committee believes it is important to keep the TPP requirements at 35 out of concern for user safety. The Committee agrees that dexterity is an important issue and one that we should always try to improve however; fire fighters in proximity environments will encounter objects that will be exceptionally hot due to exposure to high levels of radiant heat. There are also situations where fire fighters have gone from proximity fire environments to structural fire fighting environments i.e. exterior aircraft fire fighting to interior aircraft fire fighting.


Mr. Grilliot made another submit to the same NFPA 1976 Committee to reduce the radiant heat protection for the back side of proximity turnout gear. The committee rejected this submit as well for the same obvious reasons of concern for firefighter safety.

Please draw your own conclusions about the commitment to Fire fighter safety in this case.

Google "NFPA 1976 Committee Meeting" to view all of the meeting minutes first hand and see pages 7 and 8.

In today's world of high performance materials, reducing thermal protection for firefighters is surely not the way to provide better results in other performance areas for protective ensemble!

You can read more about Pro-Tech 8 NFPA Certification, SEI, and the smear campaign on the TechTrade, LLC website.


http://www.techtradellc.com

(Check out the News Section)

Stay Safe.



edit: Sv1, have you contacted TechTrade about your gloves?

[sv1332]

edit: Sv1, have you contacted TechTrade about your gloves?

I discussed this problem with a rep at FDIC this year and was told that the glove produced now the leather palm was made better and that I should purchase a pair of new ones that met the 2007 standard. It may be made better and will stand up more abuse but if not, is this something I should have to deal with every month? Which was the reason I chose to try the super gloves. That and the fact that they are easy to get on even when wet. As stated before I loved the dexterity in the glove but there were the fact that it was very difficult to get on you hand when wet, did not hold up well, overall I was just not impressed with the glove. This may also be the issue with the super glove, i dont know yet. I am in no way bashing Protech or promoting the super glove. A question was asked and I was responding as a fellow FF.

[dfjordan]

I discussed this problem with a rep at FDIC this year and was told that the glove produced now the leather palm was made better and that I should purchase a pair of new ones that met the 2007 standard. It may be made better and will stand up more abuse but if not, is this something I should have to deal with every month? Which was the reason I chose to try the super gloves. That and the fact that they are easy to get on even when wet. As stated before I loved the dexterity in the glove but there were the fact that it was very difficult to get on you hand when wet, did not hold up well, overall I was just not impressed with the glove. This may also be the issue with the super glove, i dont know yet. I am in no way bashing Protech or promoting the super glove. A question was asked and I was responding as a fellow FF.

Absolutely, and you're completely entitled to your opinion. My edit to you was meant to be separate from my response to TFG, I only edited it in because I noticed your post after I wrote that one up. I appreciate your frankness, and if you would like to discuss your gloves in any more detail, or have any questions, feel free to contact TechTrade directly.



debt oct

[MarcusKspn]

I find it interesting that so many people join this forum just to tell me how great a particular glove is. If one of the guys that has more than 5 post counts tells me about a product I might pay attention to them, but this seems like folks from the company spaming.

[dday05]

I have Pro Tech gloves and like the feel of them. Myself and my buddies hands got very hot from these gloves in a burn a couple weeks ago. Actually my glove melted the finger tips off of one of the gloves. It was not a comfortable feeling and it was a feeling I don't ever want to feel again. I am going back to my big bulky fire gloves. I also tried on the Total fire glove and didn't like the feel of it.

[BLSboy]

I have owned a pair of Chiba Flamefighters, and just ordered, and am waiting on, the Pro Tech 8s.
I have VERY little bad to say about the Chibas. I used them at a warehouse fire the other day, and was peeling back the sides of the building with the gloves. While active fire was behind them. These things were hot hot hot hot hot! And my Chibas sustained no damage at all. I felt some heat, but no damage was done to them. That being the third structure fire this month, I can attest to their toughness, dexterity, and they are just an overall good glove. They are pricey, at around 90-95 a pair. When I get my Pro Tech 8s, I will post my opinion of them as well.
If anyone has any questions about the Chibas, feel free to PM me.

http://www.thefirestore.com/store/products/20060814043322_Photo2.jpg

from http://www.thefirestore.com/store/product.cfm/pid_4056_chiba_flame_fighter_f ire_extrication_glove/

and

http://www.illinoisfirestore.com/catalog/protech8.gif

from
http://www.illinoisfirestore.com/servlet/Detail?no=108

Please note, I am NOT a distributer, nor do I have any affiliations with either of these websites. I am merely trying to provide my Brothers with as accurate information about gloves as I can.

[jonnyirons2]

I have no choice but to wear morning pride. Its heavy and it falls apart frequently, but then again I do put it on about 20 times a 24 usually. As for the gloves they made. They are not made anywhere near like the pro-tech's. Protech's gloves are made like a good pair of gloves for cold weather. If you look at how most gloves are made, the ring and middle fingers are stitched together to the palm, look at a picture of them all they all have the same stitching. If you melt your fingers off with your gloves be fortunate that you didnt get 2nd or 3rd degree burns as well. Try that with a pair of normal gloves, you'll end up in the burn center. Dont be a moron and see how hot you can get the burn box, or how melted you can get your front piece, the only thing you are going to do is injure yourself or someone else. Ive worn my gloves into numerous fires and have not had a single problem. I wont wear the fireguard commanders ever again, unless its to clean the grill at the firehouse, and with that it wont be hot either, just to keep the grease off my mits.

As for them being made in Pakistan, if they were made here in the US they would be 90 bucks atleast.

For the liner melting, put a torch on the inside of a pair of any gore crosstech moisture barrier and see how fast it melts. PBI melts at 1800 degrees too, should we stop wearing it?

Mourning Pride is a big company that by the grace of god was given the FDNY contract and that has made them what they are. Do yourself a favor and evaluate every piece of information, especially info from one vendor bashing anothers products.

[BFDENG51CAPT]

I really liked the Protecs when I tried them on at FDIC. We contacted the Tech Trade and bought 3 pair to try out. After using the gloves for about two months the following problems were noted:

1. The leather on the palm and fingers was torn in multiple places.

2. Some of the stiching was already starting to wear out.

3. The gloves were extremely hard to get on when they got wet, such a problem that the guys trying them out wanted there old gloves back.

I was really hoping that they would work out better as they were the most comfortable glove I have worn. After two months the durability issue and the problems when putting the gloves on have kind of swayed us away from them. We are in the process of looking for another glove to try so I guess I might have to look at the superglove. They seem a little pricey though but we are willing to pay that if the durability of the glove makes them worth it.

[Kazak61]

[QUOTE=KEEPBACK200FEET;840776]Total Fire Group held a 600 degree blowtorch to the inner lining of the Pro-Tech's, and, of course, it melted. If the environment inside your glove reaches 600 degrees, your hand won't be worth $hit anyway.[QUOTE=KEEPBACK200FEET;840776]

No doubt. But the test I saw was the NFPA test, not some funky blow torch one, and the liner melted in seconds. It is supposed to last five minutes and it didn't come close.

Let me ask you this, would you wear polyester as a liner in your bunker coat? If the answer is "no," why would you wear it on your hand? If we know poly melts below 500 degrees and we know the standard says the liner in your glove can't melt, drip or burn, why is the liner approved?

My concern here is a lot more about the future of bunker gear than it is this glove or any other. If we allow cheap imports with components in them that are dangerous to fire fighters, then we all know that the purchasing people who buy the gear and who often have no idea why it is important to have the best materials possible, will push to buy that kind of crap. We've come too far in bunker gear to go backwards and this Protech-8 glove is a step backwards.

[jonnyirons2]

Kazak, if you have 500 degrees next to your hand, the last thing you need to worry about is the liner melting. It passed the NFPA test just like the rest did. The polyester liner is not a problem for me. Perhaps if people bought the pro-tech's like they buy other firefighting gloves (oversized/improper fit) they would not have the same problems with donning the gloves. But when you can get a glove that fits like one and still protects you from fire this is what you get. My fire guard commanders stick to my hands when they are wet too, but because they are so big and bulky the surface area of the moisture barrier to skin is so little in comparison to the pro-tech's they come off no problem.

I only wear my pro-tech's to fires, or calls for fire, not for car accidents or ems or lock outs. I use them to protect me from high heat environments. Every thing else gets a leather work glove, unless it involves blood.

[CaptWMFD]

Guys-
I agree there are way too many manufacturers/dealers on this chain (or that is what I suspect), who ar not revealing themselves as such. I told you up front I work for Morning Pride. but tried to share my opinions as a firefighter. I suspect that is fine for the firefighters on this chain, but the manufacturers do not like it. As for Morning Pride clothing, that is my primary division and I see competitive field test results and FD conversions almost every day. A field test lets the firefighters decide, so we push it as that is where we shine thanks to all our patents We just picked up LA City, LA County, Sacramento, Sacramento Metro and I could go on forever almost. But I digress. Look, the truth always comes out in the fire service. Try out the Super Glove, American FireWear willr have fit lines at I-Chiefs or your dealer can get a fit line for you. If you get the right size, I think you will find it fits BETTER than other 2007 edition gloves. And in 2007 there are added insulation requirements, so do not compare with earlier editions for "feel". The Super Glove also has the same durable FR Kevlar/Nomex materials that the bulkier fire gloves have, it did not buy dexterity with thinner, less stable polyester fabrics like is used as the ProTech liner. Our glove people say it is the 3D style that allows that dexterity with the high protection materials that were always used. Try the Super Glove in the field, again it is the same FR materials that have always held up, so should do fine on durability. But YOU try it and YOU decide. Let AMF know what you think, they will respond on anything you need. And, for the record, Bill Grilliot is NOT Chief of West Milton Fire, but is on the FD though and has been for 25 years. The NFPA comment was a way to allow dexterity with less insulation on the side of the fingers before the Super Glove came along. NFPA debates trade offs all the time and dexterity sure was a glove issue. In a way, that is where the Super Glove started, if thinner materials on the more shielded sides of the fingers was not allowable, how else could we get dexterity.? Incidentally, ProTech HAS less materials on the sides of thefingers, and in our lab's opinion at those areas fails NFPA TPP requirements. As to Kangaroo not being US made, the Australian government only allows kangaroo populations natively for conservation reasons. If there was another leather that had the strength with thinness of kangaroo, we would buy it in North America. There just isn't such a leather, kangaroo is really amazing for strength with thinness and insulation. But the gloves ARE made here in the good old USA by people making a living and raising families here. Remember, one glove WILL be best on dexterity and protection..you just have to find it and field test is the best way. Also ask to watch NFPA testing on the glove you pick, that will tell you a lot. STAY SAFE AND CHECK THINGS OUT FOR YOURSELF.

[jonnyirons2]

Spoken like a true company man. If it (pro-tech 8's) passed NFPA testing how can you say it lacks the tpp on the sides of the fingers? Especially since Morning Pride is on the NFPA panel?!?! WTF? I would love it if the FDNY rid us of Morning Pride gear, its heavy and it falls apart. The only reason half these City's pick Morning Pride up is cause they can low bid everyone else cause of the volume. Another way the American Fireman gets F$%ked!

[Viospawn]

Is there a sizing chart avail on the super glove, I wear M in The FireGuard commanders, and bought the Super glove In M, all in all does not seem like theres too much dexterity especially in the finger tips, but they fit pretty comfortably, also was wondering, the fireguards will get larger NOT shrink with time, what will these gloves do ?

[captwmfd1]

Once again and to be clear, I work for Morning Pride (sister company of American Firewear that makes the Super Glove) and am a suburban Dayton volunteer. I do not want anyone to think I am not being upfront. I do think it is important to advise that ProTech8 website now admits the ProTech8 glove is de-listed. They are replacing it with a new glove Titan that is not yet available. They blame the de-listing on a NFPA Formal Interpretation that "changed" the 1971 testing. A Formal Interpretation does NOT change requirements, it indicates what NFPA Committee intent ALWAYS was. I would contact SEI the previous certifier and/or NFPA before using ProTech8's in a fire or high heat setting. Get the straight scoop yourself. There is no mention of a recall , on the ProTech website, but in our opinion that is what is needed. In our lab, we found numerous issues with the glove not the least of which was the polyester lining. Yell at us if you want, but we will try to build product that is flexible AND protective and if we know something, you will. Our lab is here if you want to test our product or the competition's, you can see for yourself at no charge who is being totally accurate or inaccurate. Stay safe!

[Eaglemedic]

The glove did pass the standards.

Here is the trick, as you mentioned the polyester lining is inside the glove. It is covered up by all the layers that keep the heat out of the glove. What is the temperature that will start doing damage to skin. If you have to worry about polyester melting, what is already happening to the skin on your hand.

And what does Pakistan have to do with any of this, and where is the SuperGlove made?

All I could find on their side is this:

Sizes Will Not be Restocked
Over Slow Boats from
Distant Sites

So what, are they made in Brazil and come on a train. Believe me, if they were Made in the USA, in this day and age, they would stamp that all over the add's.

They are made by American Firewear, in Ohatchee, ALABAMA, USA! They are the best Structural glove I have seen! Trust an AMERICAN company with a long established history to keep us all safe!

[smketer]

1. I dont work for Total Fire Group.
2. Why would you wear something that is not made in America?
- what if they ran out of something and or missed something in a pair of the gloves some 10 year old in some country made?
-You work for a union dept why not buy something that SUPPORTS your union?

I do wear TFG items when working, and while teaching.

Have I wore the tech 8, yes. Feels like a ski glove to me. Do I think it would protect me? NO!

Do I think other gloves will protect me? Yes.

If it cost maybe an extra $40 dollars, how much are your hands worth?


On the other hand I think that the NFPA is a bunch of good old boys, who play golf and have meetings at places. Look who sits on the board of the NFPA meetings. they have TV shows about this, its all how you vote.

When really they need to just have Firefighters who are not getting paid in anyway look at what is best for firefighters.

Stay Safe,
SMK

[andy957]

If I remeber correctly, Total Fire Group had a recall a few years ago with their fire boots, after being threatened with legal action if they didn't do it. To see the efforts they have made to bad mouth the Pro-Techs, just like they did with the Globe boots, the AirBoss boots, and many other competitors, shows the class that this company has. Just for that I would stay away from any of their products. But to be fair we tried both gloves, and the Pro-techs have won hands down against the super glove. Pro-tech makes a better glove, Globe a better turnout, Globe a better leather boot, Airboss a better rubber boot, Cairns a better helmet,etc. So many other choices.

Stay safe.

[TheSaint7]

if you look at protech's website they now have a disclaimer how a "small change" in nfpa standards made to "hurt their business" has made their protech gloves no longer nfpa certified...... oops.

[jonnyirons2]

Once again and to be clear, I work for Morning Pride (sister company of American Firewear that makes the Super Glove) and am a suburban Dayton volunteer. I do not want anyone to think I am not being upfront. I do think it is important to advise that ProTech8 website now admits the ProTech8 glove is de-listed. They are replacing it with a new glove Titan that is not yet available. They blame the de-listing on a NFPA Formal Interpretation that "changed" the 1971 testing. A Formal Interpretation does NOT change requirements, it indicates what NFPA Committee intent ALWAYS was. I would contact SEI the previous certifier and/or NFPA before using ProTech8's in a fire or high heat setting. Get the straight scoop yourself. There is no mention of a recall , on the ProTech website, but in our opinion that is what is needed. In our lab, we found numerous issues with the glove not the least of which was the polyester lining. Yell at us if you want, but we will try to build product that is flexible AND protective and if we know something, you will. Our lab is here if you want to test our product or the competition's, you can see for yourself at no charge who is being totally accurate or inaccurate. Stay safe!

I could care less what the NFPA says. I have used these gloves in high heat environments and still have all my digits and and no scars. If you think the Polyester liner is an issue your ignorance is beyond my comprehension. Just stay over at Total Fire and enjoy the kool-aid. Polyester belts at over 400 degrees, skin boils at around 130. I am not worried about the liner burning, I am worried about my skin first! If your design at TFG is so superior why dont you come up with home insulation too, same concept, but oh wait, the super glove is just like any other garbage glove out there, except it has a slight ergonomic bend to the material as opposed to being flat like the other junk out there. I have used the original pro-tech's and now I use the titans. they keep getting better and better while the rest of the stuff still stays the same!

[dday05]

I If your design at TFG is so superior why dont you come up with home insulation too, same concept, but oh wait, the super glove is just like any other garbage glove out there, except it has a slight ergonomic bend to the material as opposed to being flat like the other junk out there.!

You forgot about the price...

Group homework for tonight. Everyone needs to dig up and revive a 7 month or older thread just to say blah,blah,blah stuff comes out of my mouth when I talk...

[jonnyirons2]

Yeah the super glove is 80 bucks twice the price!

[npfd801]

I find it interesting that an independent THIRD party certified the Pro-Tech glove. It was certified for many months and all of a sudden, someone decided it can't pass any more. Huh.

I've worn the Super Glove. I've also worn a pair of the new Titan. Hands down, while the new Titan is bulkier than the old Pro-Tech, it still is less bulky and offers more dexterity than the Super Glove... I'm looking forward to seeing how the kangaroo version of the Titan will feel.

When I initially posted on here, I was working for a company that sold Shelby gloves primarily. I'm now employed by a dealer that sells both the Pro-Tech and the Super Glove. My guys will still be getting the Pro-Tech glove as standard issue when I buy gloves for my department. Miraculously, nobody has burned themselves using the old Pro-Techs either.

[MassFireGuy]

Johnny correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Morning Pride (aka TFG) do some pretty sleazy stuff to get the FDNY contract? I heard they provided false data on other companies (much like they are doing now) and paid off some officials to get the contract. I have no respect for a company that does crap like that and wish not to wear anything made by them unless it is issued to me by my department. Their products are heavy, bulky, and fall apart faster than a prom dress. I remember at one point they said high backed bunker pants cause kidneys to overheat. What a load of crap.

[jonnyirons2]

Since we are the largest agency in the world, I am sure something happened to make this work. Our gear works, probably what happened is that MP was the only company that was able to fulfill the orders for 22k sets of bunker gear in a few months. What happens between r&d and the real world is totally different. The Chief of the Rescue Battalion was wearing them, and not many guys are as salty as that guy.

[dfjordan]

You admit you work for morning pride. isn't your "suburban Dayton" f.d. also
the same dept as Bill Grilliot Morning Pride Pres? what the heck would
anyone expect you to say. just because you admit to all of this does it make
you unbiased or well informed?

if you believe that this pro-tech 8 story is really about firefighter
safety concerns and not about the politics of product protectionism on the
NFPA 1971 committee then you must be living alone in a cave somewhere! get real man!!! it all about the money!!!! and its all about Total Fire Group's
well-known nasty habit of trashing competitors that have better products
than they do!

The RESULT of the NFPA committee's "Formal Interpretation" (F/I)was to
CHANGE the way certain structural glove inner liners(including Pro-Tech 8 of
course)are to be tested in the lab. Therefore, the final EFFECT IS EXACTLY
THE SAME as changing the test requirements in the standard. Do you think it
is just a coincidence that this interpretation was specifically and narrowly
written this way to have this effect? Did this F/I just happen to fall out
of the sky to have this impact Pro-Tech 8 gloves? Do you think this F/I
wasn't especially tailored to impact the Pro-Tech 8 gloves? Do you even know
what the F/I says and who in the NFPA committee tailored it? Do you know
that for years test labs in many cases have been perforning this glove inner
liner test in a manner contrary to the new interpretation?

Wouldn't the NFPA committee's time be better spent focusing on real safety
safety issues concerning structural firefighting gloves? The first example
that comes to mind is the vulnerable knuckle area that is prone to burns.
That's where firefighters are in fact getting burned constantly in REAL
LIFE!!! Why don't you ask the Riverside County F.D. or the L.A. County F.D.
about this. Or better yet, ask the Houston, TX F.D about their recurring
knuckle burn problems with the American Firewear gloves they use!!!

The NFPA standard does not address this well-known knuckle vulnerability.
The standard allows for the same thermal protection layers throughout the
glove. When the firefighter clinches a fist the layers at the knuckle
compress and thereby seriously reduce thermal protection. The Pro-Tech 8
gloves knuckle guard specifically addresses this well known danger. Even
layered gloves including your Super Glove do not address this danger!
So if you want to really talk about firefighting glove safety you must first
get real about how the NFPA committeee functions and get real about the
actual dangers firefighters face daily!

[ChiefKN]

I'm definitely not a plant for any manufacturer...

I've used Morning Pride and like it once it's broken in.

I have the SuperGlove and love it... used them on an extrication the other day. Great!

I've also tried a couple other new generation gloves and have to say that they are good, but my preference was the superglove.

Just wish they came in more sizes. I'm kind of between a L and an XL. But that's true of all the gloves...i'm always right in between.

[Ack8236]

I purchased my own pair of Protech 8's awhile back because I liked the feel a lot better than the gloves we were issued. I am on the union's safety committee and have an entire turnout set for evaluation, which includes the Super Glove. Comparing the Protech's and the Super Gloves, I STRONGLY prefer the Super Glove. The Protech's feel great when you first put them on, the dexterity is definitely better than SG. But with the Protech, you don't even need to be spraying water, the sweat from your hands will get the liners moist and you better not plan on taking them off and putting them back on! We had a large structure fire yesterday and I had the SG on and off for about 14 hours. They saw fire, water, dirt and grime, loading a LOT of hose, generally ran them through the wringer. My hands and the inside of the gloves stayed pretty much dry the whole time, and when I left, the outsides of the gloves felt damp but not wet like you would expect. I know the Protech's take a long time to dry out. The SG is bulkier and has less dexterity, and I do believe the sizes run larger, I wish mine were a smaller size. If our department decides not to go with the SG, I would definitely buy my own if issued Protech's.
I do not sell equipment. I have no connection at all to any equipment manufacturer, distributor, seller, peddler, whatever. I just use the stuff.

[Firefighter2230]

[QUOTE=Ack8236;939640] I know the Protech's take a long time to dry out. QUOTE]

must have been how you were drying them then the last time I got wet was at a late night fire. I took em home placed them over a vent at the house and by the next morning had dried out with no problems. I think the MOST mine ever had to dry was a day.

[Ack8236]

We do have a clothes dryer at work just for gloves, I don't bring my dirty smelly contaminated turnout gear home. I've used the dryer sometimes and the gloves will dry out. But, I don't want to get another call and have to go get my gloves from the dryer or forget they are in there and not have them. I like to air dry my stuff on my days off, things "disappear" from the clothes dryer. My point was, when I left work yesterday, after just getting back from an all day fire, the Super Gloves felt damp but not soaking wet like the Protech's do, and I was still able to easily take them off and put them back on. I own a pair of both and am just making a comparison for those seeking the info. I'll be sure to use the "proper" drying technique in the future.

[WFDFire2156]

I have a pair of Pro-Techs and they are the only glove I will ever wear. I love them. The Super Glove seems to bulky to me which in the pro-tech it feels like you have more movement. Go with the pro-tech its a great glove plus cost's less.

[Frmboybuck]

I own a pair of the Pro-tech 8s and I love them. I have never had an issue with them being hard to get on when wet. Guess I got lucky.I have tried the Super Glove on and liked the way it fit but Im not going to spend $80 on another pair of gloves when I like the ones I have. After the Pro-Techs wear out, I might give the Super Glove a shot.

[Eng34FF]

I own a pair of each. Wore the Pro-Techs in another fire yesterday and again the only issue I have is that it's difficult to get them on the second time after they get we inside from the sweat. I've only worn them in maybe a dozen actual fires and training burns since I got them, so I can't really say I've tested them. I have yet to wear the super-gloves in action.

[johnny46]

Since we are the largest agency in the world
THE TOKYO FIRE DEPARTMENT (TFD) has come a long way from the Edo period (1603 to 1867), when fires were put out by demolishing the burning building. Back then, the samurai acted as firefighters, and their wives wore red coats to stand out in the crowd and help evacuate people. Today, the fire department is the largest in the world, with 17,993 employees and a budget of US$2 billion (244 billion yen for fiscal year 2001.) Some 1,839 pieces of apparatus, including 20 firefighting motorcycles, are housed in 80 fire stations throughout Tokyo, which is composed of 23 wards, called "ku," 24 surrounding cities, 3 towns, and a village.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3737/is_200205/ai_n9044125




You have us beat by like three times the size. But let's give them their due. And furthermore, are you trained to repel the attack of a giant lizard?

[ChiefKN]

You have us beat by like three times the size. But let's give them their due. And furthermore, are you trained to repel the attack of a giant lizard?

And don't forget about Mothra...

[JHR1985]

you got to remember that since they are only like 4 ft tall, their trucks require at least 8 guys since they have to stand on top of each other just to use the pike poles. Lets not even think how many it would take to raise a 35ft ladder

[smketer]

Kentland would only need 1 engine, for every 10 engines that they have.

I thought Kentland killed Godzilla?

Stay safe,
SMK

[fireman4949]

I thought Kentland killed Godzilla?

Stay safe,
SMK

I think Kentland THINKS they're Godzilla! :p

[jonnyirons2]

I still think we are bigger, no one ever pointed that out, but they may include EMS which we do not. Ill ask my friend, his wife is from old Nippon.

I have said this before. The reason the Pro-Tech's give you so much dexterity and feeling is the amount of surface area between your skin and the material of the glove. The downside to the surface area is that when the coefficient of friction between your skin and the liner changes i.e. gets wet its the equivalent of trying to get a suction cup off your windshield, not easy, but once you break the seal comes right off. I know that the tech trade guys are aware of this, and were testing new liners when I got my titans a while back. They (tech trade) are one of the most pro-active PPE providers I have ever seen. They take all input from users and attempt to change the glove to benefit us. No one in their design team were firemen, so everything we tell them is going to benefit the product. Like I have said numerous times before, if you think a glove with just two layers of material is going to give you better thermal protection than one with 8 you either a) have a body that ignores the laws of thermodynamics or b) are just plain ignorant. I hope the FDNY gets these as it would make my day to get them for free as opposed to paying for them.

People complain about longevity of the gloves as well, I ask you this, when was the last time you wore leather moccasins at work that lasted you 9 months to a year?

Stay Safe!

[Hexxus]

I think Kentland THINKS they're Godzilla! :p

Nah, they can't be Godzilla. Godzilla is a Japanese creation. They are 100% American-Made-Badass, so I guess they have to be the Cloverfield monster.

[Ack8236]

You know, most of us carry more than one pair of gloves. I carry about 4-5 pair on the rig. The Super Glove works the best for firefighting operations. If you're on the knob you don't need the better dexterity of the Protech's, and the water resistance and ability to take them on and off is great. For PI's, I normally wear latex gloves under the Protech's. The better dexterity really helps, and with the latex gloves on, they can still be taken off and put back on with no problem. I'd be interested in trying the Chiba's, they look like they're a good glove also. I try to keep an open mind to what is out there and not have the "I use it so it is the best ever" attitude.

[BLSboy]

I have a pair of Chibas. Best glove I have tried. That includes Super Glove, and Pro Tech.

[LED138]

I was browsing the rest of the glove threads and found this... Maybe Eaglemedic and WMFD(or whatever his name is) is one in the same??.....Sorry, not sure how to post a quote from another thread into this one.





03-26-2008, 07:28 AM #39
Eaglemedic


Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2 Protech 8's are Dangerous!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Watch out for those PT-8 gloves. I have personally seen a demonstration of what happens to them in a Heat Resistance Test! That liner just shrivels up and melts! I would not want that to happen in a fire.

I have also noticed that ProTech8 is no longer listed on SEI certification website. This brings up a few questions: Are they giving refunds, since gloves were sold originally with a cert label? If SEI took the PT8 off the certified list, are the gloves still certified or is there going to be a recall? Has anyone called SEI for clarification of the issue?

Has anyone seen the new Super Glove from American Firewear? I have heard it is AWESOME. I would trust the folks a Total Fire Group to make and sell a great product. If you are going to field test gloves, also try the American made, in stock, currently certified Super glove. From everything I have heard, it is the best glove ever made.

[redlin91]

FDNY R&D and companies in the field have tested these glove and recalled them for these issues of the melting temp and that when they get wet the insides come out and become usless. so be warned!!!

[mkmorg484]

I want to order a pair of the American Firewear Super Gloves, but don't know what size to get. I wear a size small in shelbys. I think an XS in the super glove would be fine. Anyone else out there wear a size small in shelbys and find the XS super glove the right fit?

[fireman4949]

I want to order a pair of the American Firewear Super Gloves, but don't know what size to get. I wear a size small in shelbys. I think an XS in the super glove would be fine. Anyone else out there wear a size small in shelbys and find the XS super glove the right fit?

I wear an XL in virtually all gloves, but I just bought a pair of Large in the Superglove, as they seemed to fit me well.
My point is that they seem to run slightly larger than standard FF gloves, so one size down from your current gloves may fit you fine.

[bfd190]

I purchased a pair of these a couple months back due to the overwhelmingly positive comments I read here on the board . I was also happy with the comfort when I tried them on ... I am concerned about a couple of the latest posts that seem to be saying that they are pretty much worthless under heavy fire conditions. One of these is a couple of posts above.. its hard to tell if this is just competion knocking a product .. suspect with some of the few number posts of these people..

I called my local dealer and mentioned what i had read on firehouse and they said they had not heard of any issue or recall with the glove .. as well as any other safety concerns.. how legeit are any of those accusations ? Does any one know ... I have zero problem spending that much on a glove that allows that much comfort and dexterity.. But i choose not to find out there is a thermal issue when im advancing a line into a working fire situation ..

please reply guys .. i would greatly appreciate it.

And for any trolls that are using this site and the nature of our jobs to create any kind of industry competition with a product i recommend that you cease the practice.. extremely irresponsible practice for the services we provide. I suppose given todays society im not surprised... just very ****ed at the whole idea..

[LeatherHed4Life]

i just did the rounds at the Baltimore Fire expo, i tried all the gloves they had to offer, pro-tech, super glove, firemans shield, chiba's and i found the pro-techs to fit far better than any of the others. I was wearing the FD honor glove.

I love my pro-techs

[bfd190]

I purchased a pair of these a couple months back due to the overwhelmingly positive comments I read here on the board . I was also happy with the comfort when I tried them on ... I am concerned about a couple of the latest posts that seem to be saying that they are pretty much worthless under heavy fire conditions. One of these is a couple of posts above.. its hard to tell if this is just competion knocking a product .. suspect with some of the few number posts of these people..

I called my local dealer and mentioned what i had read on firehouse and they said they had not heard of any issue or recall with the glove .. as well as any other safety concerns.. how legeit are any of those accusations ? Does any one know ... I have zero problem spending that much on a glove that allows that much comfort and dexterity.. But i choose not to find out there is a thermal issue when im advancing a line into a working fire situation ..

please reply guys .. i would greatly appreciate it.

And for any trolls that are using this site and the nature of our jobs to create any kind of industry competition with a product i recommend that you cease the practice.. extremely irresponsible practice for the services we provide. I suppose given todays society im not surprised... just very ****ed at the whole idea..

ummm any one ... bueller.. goin goin on vaca .. love a response or two... will check back ...

pretend its a big argument post ,, better yet .. kentland ... thatll get a reply or two..

[npfd801]

ummm any one ... bueller.. goin goin on vaca .. love a response or two... will check back ...

pretend its a big argument post ,, better yet .. kentland ... thatll get a reply or two..

If you're talking the Pro-Tech, I have a bunch of the originals still in service. We're not big city, but we see fires every once in a while. I had a Captain get some minor burns to his neck and ears (hood was on) but his hands were fine. Yes, I know his head was closer to the heat than his hands, but we have had zero issues with the older Pro-Techs.

[Ack8236]

ummm any one ... bueller.. goin goin on vaca .. love a response or two... will check back ...

pretend its a big argument post ,, better yet .. kentland ... thatll get a reply or two..

I have both the Super Glove and the Protech 8's. I MUCH prefer the Super Glove for firefighting. A little less dexterity, but you can take them off and put them back on. Once you take the Protech's off you will NOT get them back on without putting on latex gloves. I use them for PI's because I usually have the latex on also. I have had no issues with the Super Glove and heat. They do seem to run large.

[memyselfI]

The protechs are simply the best gloves out there. They provide so much dexterity that you only have to take them off when everything is done and over with. And the way the super glove people have been trying to bad mouth the protechs, you know its gotta be good. We have both the old version and the new, and nothing comes close.

I hate seeing companies, like the super glove company, that spend so much time on telling whats bad about the competition, instead of telling you whats good about them.

[Casco18]

Purchased my third pair of Protech 8's, Titans, today. I am very happy with the Protech gloves. Titans are a little thicker than previous pairs, they are flexible.

All three pairs are still in service.

[BKDRAFT]

I currently wear the super glove and think it is great. I am one of only six in the department testing the glove to potentially purchase for all the members. It gets my approval. However I will not wear them if I have to buy them.

[neiowa]

...I hate seeing companies, like the super glove company, that spend so much time on telling whats bad about the competition, instead of telling you whats good about them.


Super Glove is TOTALFIRE (Morning Pride). That's how they operate in all segments of their business.

[LeatherHed4Life]

Super Glove is TOTALFIRE (Morning Pride). That's how they operate in all segments of their business.

we were first due to a 2 alarm yesterday in the rain, worked for about 1.5 hrs, Protechs were soaked, remained dextrous, and had no problems taking the off or putting them back on a few times after that for overhaul. Still lovin em

[THEFIRENUT]

Just received my pair of Pro-Tech Titans. The fit is fantastic, but other than that, only time will tell.

I had tried a pair of the Super Gloves, and it needed to be a Medium even though I wear Large gloves. I liked the fit of the Titans over the Super Glove, and the price was cheaper (always a plus).

It seems that either one of these gloves beat the regular gloves without that much of a price increase. If I have learned anything about firefighting is that your gloves are your next best friend (your best friend is your brain).

[cap6888]

My only experience (or lackthereof) is trying them on at the Expo. They don't seem any more dexterous (sic) than other gloves. Pro-techs aren't an option for us. I like my Sleevemates though. The huge gauntlets are awesome!

Stay Safe

[THEFIRENUT]

O.K.

One fire down, and hopefully many more to go with these gloves. Donning and Doffing while wet was not a problem. Other than that, I nothing else to add. Stay safe out there!!

p.s. Never have heard of "Sleevemates".

[neiowa]

Today received an email from the makers of ProTech gloves. Pretty much puts a thumb in the eye of TotalFire with all their BS (including the puppets on this forum) on this subject.

We just received a very interesting piece of info late last week. The
NFPA Standards Council upheld our appeal in its entirety and overturned all
the formal interpretations that had previously put Pro-Tech 8 "supposedly"
out of compliance!

In a stunning decision their ruling was based on both improper technical
details in the NFPA 1971 committee action and also improper procedure by the
committee itself that did not abide by NFPA regulations.

Stay tuned for more info as we determine the full ramifications of this.


Also, the Pres and V.P of Total Fire Group (who of course spearheaded all
this NFPA activity against us) were booted off the NFPA 1971 Committee
recently!!! Just a coinidence? Not likely!

[ENG103]

Zachary

This is not the place to be advertising ebay auctions and other items for sale. This is a forum for firefighters to discuss issues such as apparatus, equipment, tactics, news, etc.

[Dickey]

Reported to the webteam.