Degree

[peterbound]

Okay,
I've heard the arguments, at least the capt bob and the other guy arguing about it. But whats the real deal on having your degree in fire science? I've just recieved mine and i'm wondering if it will really help me get hired or was it a waste of time. I've also got my EMT-B as i'm sure that's going to come up. I'd love to hear some of your opinions and get some info from your guys' past expericance with the hiring process in relevence to the degree..
so... Good or Worthless?
-pete

[jskopow1]

I am kind of in the same boat as you...except my degree I am still working towards. From what I have heard from various sources a degree is a degree meaning that just having a four year degree in any field may or may not help you get a job depending on if the department you are trying to work for even recognizes degrees and awards points for it. Although I am sure a fire science degree will help you get paid more with the various certs required to complete the degree such as FFI and FFII. hope this helps...i'm still very new to the whole process myself.

[sgallagher]

In my experiences if you are wanting to be a line firefighter only, then obtaining the certifications for such (FFI, FFII) is your goal. Having a degree in Fire Science may help with promotion points later. Oviously this is all depending on the department. A degree can never be a waste of your time. It will help you somewhere down the road. Maybe not know as you try to enter into the fire service but later when you look for promotion to officer or chief positions.

Looking at the job requirements for new employment oppurtunities in the Fire Prevention Offices in my area, a degree in Fire Science is prefered and in some cases required to even be considered as a candidate. A degree in Fire Science, FFI, and FFII may be required for most positions in the future. If it is already happening for Fire Inspector or Fire Marshal positions here, I'm sure it is happening elsewhere.

[peterbound]

i've got all my ff I/II, ARFF, Hazmat ops/awarness, all my I's (inspector, instructor, officer), all my II's, and my officer III, not to mention IC (the cert the hell out of us in the military) .. and like i said.. i just finished my Associates.. just wanted to know if it's going to help me get on at a major department.. or if it will just help me get promoted once i'm in the department.. like you said though.. i'm sure it can't hurt
-pete

[DennisTheMenace]

Okay,
I've heard the arguments, at least the capt bob and the other guy arguing about it. But whats the real deal on having your degree in fire science? I've just recieved mine and i'm wondering if it will really help me get hired or was it a waste of time. I've also got my EMT-B as i'm sure that's going to come up. I'd love to hear some of your opinions and get some info from your guys' past expericance with the hiring process in relevence to the degree..
so... Good or Worthless?
-peteAll comes down to you and where you want to work. Some depatments it is a requirement, most it is not. Pretty soon it will be a requirement everywhere to get promoted to the officer ranks.

Anywhere that you have an oral interview, you will have the chance to talk about it and make it an asset since you already have it.

Worthless? Heck no. Required? No again.

[DennisTheMenace]

i've got all my ff I/II, ARFF, Hazmat ops/awarness, all my I's (inspector, instructor, officer), all my II's, and my officer III, not to mention IC (the cert the hell out of us in the military) .. and like i said.. i just finished my Associates.. just wanted to know if it's going to help me get on at a major department.. or if it will just help me get promoted once i'm in the department.. like you said though.. i'm sure it can't hurt
-pete
Which major departments do you want to work for? Have you not applied anywhere yet?

[BCLepore]

I am “the other guy” that you are referring to. Let me make it perfectly clear when I tell you that education sets you apart from the rest of the candidates. I will tell you that I sit on entry-level and promotional interviews on a regular basis. In recent history I have proctored exams Battalion Chief Exams in Denver, Ontario, Torrance, and Upland. Captains exams in Los Angeles, Glendale, Santa Monica as well as final chief’s interviews for the last four entry-level academies on my own department.

As an evaluator I am partnered up with my peers from all over the country. On a recent exam, I was partnered with gold badges from New York, Philadelphia, Chicago and Hartford. The conversation during lunch centered on how the standards for entry-level firefighters have changed.

I grade candidates on a regular basis. I don’t care which position you are applying for, FORMAL EDUCATION IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

Anyone who tells you it is isn’t important, is way off base. The next person who tells you that it is not important, do yourself a favor and question them on their qualifications. How many candidates have they rated?

Take this thread for example; it’s a bunch of guys trying to get hired on the fire department sharing their thoughts on education. My favorite quote is:
“Maybe not know as you try to enter into the fire service but later when you look for promotion to officer or chief positions.”

You’re kidding me right?

Having education proves that you can finish what you start. It proves that you can set a goal and achieve it. It also says that you can read and write. All of these qualities are important to the fire service.

Let me make it very clear that a combination of education and practical, hands on experience is what we are after. Candidates who have spent their entire life in academics and do not know which way to tighten a screw will struggle in the fire service. Conversely, a candidate who cannot compose a sentence will not do well writing a report.

The fire service has evolved from putting the wet stuff on the red stuff.

Paul Lepore
Battalion Chief
www.aspiringfirefighters.com

[peterbound]

Glad to hear it wasn't a total waste of time.
Dennis: I haven’t had the opportunity to apply at any major fire department as of yet. I still have to finish my service commitment to the Air Force, which will be done in May. My goal is to get on at Phoenix, and as they only test in April/may time frame I’m going to go to Iraq for a year with WSI. This should provide some financial stability and padding during my testing cycles. I'm familiar with their pre reqs for hiring, and an associates is not one of them, I just wanted to hear from some board members about how they felt about.
I haven’t looked at any of the other fire departments in the area I’m at now (Colorado Springs), as Phoenix is the only place I want to work at.. But I’m sure they don't require an associates (as most places do not)

BCLaprone: Thanks for the heads up.. Hopefully the degree and my certs, coupled with my military experience with give me the advantage over the other candidates applying.
-pete

[sgallagher]

Mr. BCLepore,

First, let me make myself perfectly clear. I'm not trying to get into a department. I've already secured my place within the fire service. Now, allow me to direct your attention to the word "maybe" in your favorite quote. I made my comment based on some interview boards that have not hired candidates with degrees. Oviously you have to do well in the written portion of the test in order to be considered for an oral review.

I do agree with you that education sets you apart from the rest of the candidates. However, just because one has a degree does not mean that they have better oral and written communication skills than one without a degree. The way a candidate presents themself during the interview also is important. Will you hire a candidate with a degree in fire science who shows up to the interview appearing like he/she just crawled out of bed and gives poor answers to questions over the candidate with no degree but answers your questions with well thought out complete responses?

[CaptBob]

As I’ve written before I believe in education. You haven’t wasted your time.

In case you haven’t noticed there is an army (or air force) out there with every degree, certificate, experience, military time, volunteer and every merit badge you could imagine trying to be one of up to 800 competing for each firefighter job.

How many are competing for each fire/medic job? 12-20.

As sgallagher mentioned above, your goal now is to combine your education, military and other experiences into a firefighter oral board presentation that is like no other before you show up. How can you stun the oral board panel into giving you the job over the other candidates? Phoenix testing process is different than most.

Firehouse.com contributing author Steve Prziborowski, BC, Santa Clara County Fire Department wrote:
http://cms.firehouse.com/content/contributor/bio.jsp?id=25

“Do what you have to do be more marketable so you can take more tests and have something more to offer a department, but remember that it all comes down to that 15 to 30 minute oral interview. I’ve seen some awesome candidates with resumes packed full of accomplishments that couldn’t sell them self in an interview to even make the top 50%.”

"Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com

[resQengine]

Its not a waste of time at all. It absolutley does not hurt you in any way. But remeber you have to be top candidate for all of the other hiring processes. Having a degree or firefighter certifications won't get you a job.

[peterbound]

how is phoenix fire different then most?

[CaptBob]

Are you Prepared?

Like some have wrote here find out what departments you want to work for required to take their tests.

Two friends, Dave and Scott were volunteers in their city. Dave had been convinced that he needed to get a degree in order to be hired. Scott told him to stay, become a medic and they would get on. Dave went off for six years, got his BA degree in business and still couldn’t get hired. Scott became a medic and was hired by his volunteer department. He now has 6 years seniority, made more than $100,000 each year with OT ($140,000 last year---that’s real money) and enjoys the good life, more toys than you could imagine and has traveled everywhere.

Guess what? Dave was still trying to get a fire job after six years. Even after getting all the usual credentials. Firefighter 1, BA degree, 3 seasons with CDF, rode ambulance yada, yada, yada, Dave finally figured out he needed to become a medic (yes, he enjoys the medic side) to get hired. After getting his medic cert, he got hired. Where you ask? The department he was a volunteer for.

www.eatstress.com

[peterbound]

that's cool
but you didn't answer my question:
How is phoenix fire testing process different than most?
My old man works there, and it's the only one i've been exposed to.. so i'd like to know how it's different to be able to prepare in case i decide to test elsewhere.
-pete

[CaptBob]

Pete:

I'm sure you dad can fill you in on Phoenix. Give me call if you want more. 888-238-3959.

"Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com

[BCLepore]

Same old stale posts over and over

[CALFFBOU]

Okay,
I've heard the arguments, at least the capt bob and the other guy arguing about it. But whats the real deal on having your degree in fire science? I've just recieved mine and i'm wondering if it will really help me get hired or was it a waste of time. I've also got my EMT-B as i'm sure that's going to come up. I'd love to hear some of your opinions and get some info from your guys' past expericance with the hiring process in relevence to the degree..
so... Good or Worthless?
-pete

Pete-

Ok, I am not as "salty" as the two main players in here, but here is my take.

Wasted your time? No way. I've always referred to a college degree as "paper gold". Regardless whether you’re a Firefighter today or next year- You’ve achieved higher education. You’re at the next level, no one and I mean no one can take that away from you.

I do have to ask what your degree is in? Sometimes it might not apply to an entry level Firefighter job. If its in Fire Admin/Management, then it will aply down the line in time. Is it non-fire service related? Thats ok. You can build off of it and move in the direction you want.

What if you do make it in the fire service and then get injured? You have something to fall back on. An education to go somewhere elsein the fire service and have a career.

I think I am in the same boat as most people here, I started my education, got caught up in life and finally went back and completed it. I still have more to go. The nice part about being done early is you can focus on other life and career goals. Yes, that includes Paramedic school. Please picture yourself in the medic entrance oral boards and them asking you about your background- Yes, you have a degree? Most likely you'll get selected based on the fact you have shown a level of achievement and again, a building block platform.

Lastly, let’s say you do get on a department soon. Get settled in, wife family, bills, cars, dog, cat, little league- Life 101. Fast forward 2-5 and now you want to promote. Who has the time? It’s expensive and the kids need braces! But your education is done brother. You don’t need to look back.

No sir, your degree is ever a waste. Be proud of that paper gold and continue to excel in your life and career.

Bou

[Surtur]

whats the real deal on having your degree in fire science? I've just recieved mine and...

I do have to ask what your degree is in? Sometimes it might not apply to an entry level Firefighter job. If its in Fire Admin/Management, then it will aply down the line in time. Is it non-fire service related?

Yeah, looks like it's fire service related.

No way is having gotten a two-year degree a waste of your time. It was a lot of work, but it was worth it, trust me. Like CALFFBOU said, that piece of paper is worth its weight in gold. Just a degree and your EMT-B won't get you a job, though, which is I'm sure why you're asking this question. The thing is that so many people applying for fire jobs seem to miss is the fact that you can't just meet the qualifications for a department and expect to get hired. You need to be a well-rounded candidate, or else you're just another number.

So many people look at the job/s they have until they get hired on a department as just a way to earn money -- big mistake. Places where you work say a lot about what kind of firefighter you'll be. Long-term references from honorable organizations that give you a positive recommendation mean a whole hell of a lot. Having a sense of volunteerism and being an active member of your community -- huge! Becoming a paramedic is also a lot of work and a big commitment, but if you get it over with now, it's just so well worth it. Medics with a degree are golden candidates.

[DocVBFDE14]

This is great.

And we wonder why we have so many problems in the Fire Service?

Now we are advocating getting a certification JUST to get a job.

That is just the type of "paramedic" I want working with me.

P|$$ poor Firefighter and an even worse Medic.

But hey, they got the "badge" :rolleyes:

I feel sorry for the people who live in the areas where you get people hired. Because we all know YOU aren't working with them or have them working on you.

[SCSmith]

This is great.

And we wonder why we have so many problems in the Fire Service?

Now we are advocating getting a certification JUST to get a job.

That is just the type of "paramedic" I want working with me.

P|$$ poor Firefighter and an even worse Medic.

But hey, they got the "badge" :rolleyes:

I feel sorry for the people who live in the areas where you get people hired. Because we all know YOU aren't working with them or have them working on you.

That's the most self-righteous bunch of crap I've ever heard! Why does someone finish a nursing degree? Why does someone get a commercial driver license? Why does someone go through a police academy? TO GET A JOB! Firefighting is a job, not a religion. If some people have such a strong passion for a career the fire service and are so determined that they'll work hard to acquire whatever certification they need, then good for them. When I was working on my degree, I didn't like every single class I took, but I stuck it out and did well because finishing a degree and finding a career was important to me. Does it mean that I'm a phony because I completed classes I didn't really like just to get my degree and a job? Hell no! I think it shows a lot of character to try doing things that are outside of your comfort zone. Will someone get hired just because they have a cert or a degree? Of course not. We all know that it takes more than qualifications on paper to get a job as a firefighter anyway, so I really don't know what you're complaining about.

[DocVBFDE14]

That's the most self-righteous bunch of crap I've ever heard! Why does someone finish a nursing degree? Why does someone get a commercial driver license? Why does someone go through a police academy? TO GET A JOB! Firefighting is a job, not a religion. If some people have such a strong passion for a career the fire service and are so determined that they'll work hard to acquire whatever certification they need, then good for them. When I was working on my degree, I didn't like every single class I took, but I stuck it out and did well because finishing a degree and finding a career was important to me. Does it mean that I'm a phony because I completed classes I didn't really like just to get my degree and a job? Hell no! I think it shows a lot of character to try doing things that are outside of your comfort zone. Will someone get hired just because they have a cert or a degree? Of course not. We all know that it takes more than qualifications on paper to get a job as a firefighter anyway, so I really don't know what you're complaining about.

Wasn't going to, but here goes. Here is the major hole in your theory.

To get a degree in nursing you have to want to be a nurse, where the degree is required. If I want to be a nurse should I go get a degree or certificate as an X-Ray tech or ER Tech only? Uh no.

To obtain a CDL, you have to want to be part of a business or ogranization that requires a CDL. If I want to drive an 18 wheeler cross country, should I get a degree in auto repair? Uh no.

To be a police officer many require 24-60 college credits in ANY degree. While I do agree with you that yes it does take time and effort which they are looking for, how useful is a degree in Electrical Engineering to a police office? Very little.

So here are your choices:

YOU require advanced life support. Which Paramedic do YOU want working on YOU:

A- The medic who obtained and worked for his cert because he wanted to be a paramedic?

or
B- The medic who eeked by/doesn't care about his skill/obtained his cert because he wanted to be a career firefighter and get the badge?

I will clue you in, working in an ALS enriched area. There IS a difference in the Pt care skills.

[peterbound]

I'm starting to realize that you this doc guy is just a Major Flamer and you can't take him seriously. What a joke. He sounds like he's bitter. He must have lost out on quite a few jobs to people that actually prepared themselves to be competitive. i mean geez.. he ended working in virgina beach.. possibly the dirtiest city i've ever been too (they made a park out of a land fill for christ sake).
But after reading many of the posts here, i'm glad i've got my degree.. it's like i tell my troops i supervise now about military regs and standards. You can either met the regs.. and that's fine, but it won't get you any where, or you can exceed the regs.. and go farther in your career.

thanks for the advice
-pete

[JLam77]

buncha crap
You're either a troll or a complete buffoon. I'm going with the buffoon option.

[DocVBFDE14]

You're either a troll or a complete buffoon. I'm going with the buffoon option.

Maybe. But at least I can read, figure out who wrote what and respond to it accordingly. Knowing that you are a major supporter of Major Spammer and Mini Spammer, I am not the least bit surprised you used someone else's words to try and support your position. But hey, if it floats your boat. Have at it. :cool:


I'm starting to realize that you this doc guy is just a Major Flamer and you can't take him seriously. What a joke. He sounds like he's bitter. He must have lost out on quite a few jobs to people that actually prepared themselves to be competitive. i mean geez.. he ended working in virgina beach.. possibly the dirtiest city i've ever been too (they made a park out of a land fill for christ sake).
But after reading many of the posts here, i'm glad i've got my degree.. it's like i tell my troops i supervise now about military regs and standards. You can either met the regs.. and that's fine, but it won't get you any where, or you can exceed the regs.. and go farther in your career.

thanks for the advice
-pete

I don't care what your view of Va Beach is. Nor does anyone else here. As I have pointed out here, I only volunteer with the VBFD while I am still serving the Navy a 2nd time. I competed against thousands. I have my job up North. And I feel really safe knowing I work are get a paycheck from the City I do :cool:

And I find it ironic that now you are Joe-Military. I mean, YOU did say:
"we've got our hard arses in the AF too.. all still strung up on earning being a fire fighter (or a really well paid janitor, 9 years.. one fire.. can't really call my self a fire fighter)"
http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost.php?p=902644&postcount=60

Look, if you are that offened, like I said in the other thread. My location is given. Need directions to my command at NavSta Norfolk, feel free to PM me. I could honestly care less. To borrow this from FyredUp:

Have a nice day.;)

[CALFFBOU]

This is great.

And we wonder why we have so many problems in the Fire Service?

Now we are advocating getting a certification JUST to get a job.

That is just the type of "paramedic" I want working with me.

P|$$ poor Firefighter and an even worse Medic.

But hey, they got the "badge" :rolleyes:

I feel sorry for the people who live in the areas where you get people hired. Because we all know YOU aren't working with them or have them working on you.


Doc- WTF?!?!?

Did I pimp or push Medic school on the guy? NO! I only suggested it in case he wants to go. I didnt shove it down his neck.

Goeez man, relax!

Medic school is a great route for people who want to get hired! Its not the only route, but thats what a lot of departments are going for these days.

Ease up man and the people who WANT to go to PM school, will go.

[peterbound]

Doc,
let me get this straight.. you are a navy GS or Damage control man.. i'm trying to figure out the competitive part of your argument, that you've posted in several threads. Last i checked the navy is hiring /anybody/ to fill the fire spots (aren't they like 45% manned) and getting your slot to louis f garland can't be that hard to do in the navy.. either way you aren't really competing on that high of a level.. and neither one require you to have a clearance or get a polygraph.. so either way yer just talking out your *****.. but I've figured out that you are just a troll and a flamer.. so no big deal..i wouldn't expect anything else from you.
and about your invite, i may be out next month.. my sister in law is going to going to the the 'fun boss' what ever the hell that means on the George W H Bush..and is stationed out there, me and the family are going to see her. .might have to stop by the fire department. I do love to collect shirts.
and about my quote.. you took that entirely out of context.. and hope the people on here have a chance to read the whole tread.. you (as you always seem to do) were attacking some poor kid that just wanted advice about coming in.. i was just trying to lend him some support and let him know that not all people in the military are jerks (which is what i'm sure he thought after getting your responses)
one more thing.. you need to be a little more careful on here about what you say and how you say it.. you need to remember that you are representing an organization and possibly a military branch.. a lot of you actions on here are less than courteous and lean towards being down right mean and unprofessional, you should think about that when you attack and challenge people, it might come back to bite you in the butt.
-pete

[DocVBFDE14]

Doc- WTF?!?!?

Did I pimp or push Medic school on the guy? NO! I only suggested it in case he wants to go. I didnt shove it down his neck.


Actually I was not referring to you ;) I am aware that in Cali and a few other area's that is all but a requirement.

Doc,
let me get this straight.. you are a navy GS or Damage control man.. i'm trying to figure out the competitive part of your argument, that you've posted in several threads. Last i checked the navy is hiring /anybody/ to fill the fire spots (aren't they like 45% manned) and getting your slot to louis f garland can't be that hard to do in the navy.. either way you aren't really competing on that high of a level.. and neither one require you to have a clearance or get a polygraph.. so either way yer just talking out your *****.. but I've figured out that you are just a troll and a flamer.. so no big deal..i wouldn't expect anything else from you.
and about your invite, i may be out next month.. my sister in law is going to going to the the 'fun boss' what ever the hell that means on the George W H Bush..and is stationed out there, me and the family are going to see her. .might have to stop by the fire department. I do love to collect shirts.
and about my quote.. you took that entirely out of context.. and hope the people on here have a chance to read the whole tread.. you (as you always seem to do) were attacking some poor kid that just wanted advice about coming in.. i was just trying to lend him some support and let him know that not all people in the military are jerks (which is what i'm sure he thought after getting your responses)
one more thing.. you need to be a little more careful on here about what you say and how you say it.. you need to remember that you are representing an organization and possibly a military branch.. a lot of you actions on here are less than courteous and lean towards being down right mean and unprofessional, you should think about that when you attack and challenge people, it might come back to bite you in the butt.
-pete

1st- Congratulations. Though as a welder, I am more an HT than a DC but that is neither here nor there. Reactor room work requires security clearance ;) And as I stated, I am here at the behest of the Federal Govt. People who know me, know where I was hired. If you want to take the work, the answer is on the right leg of my shorts in the picture.

2nd- Fun Boss- most likely the MWR Officer or MWR command Rep. Either way...Mandatory fun in some cases. Sometimes they get it right though and line up some good stuff.

3rd- I applaud you for not giving in and not enlisting for the sake of enlisting. That is a very smart move on your part.http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost.php?p=896470&postcount=7
From the sounds of what you posted, it is better you do not enlist. Stay in school, get your degree and go about getting on a fire department that way. Please don't use the military. We have enough slackers, whackers, and skaters who are here for their own benefit. You increase the workload on those of us here for the right reason.http://forums.firehouse.com/showpost.php?p=897178&postcount=26

There ya go. Readers Digest. Now Mr Kev of the "I want to get hired by Boston". I don't sugar coat the truth. I do not play Dr Phil and consider peoples feelings.

4th- I represent me. When I am logged onto a Va Beach Engine or Ladder, I represent the City of Va Beach. When I am logged onto FH.com, I represent me. As for the military, show me where I have ever on these boards said a bad or negative word about them, or displayed a strong commitment to being honorable, courageous or committed.

[LightsAndSirens]

Wasn't going to, but here goes. Here is the major hole in your theory.

To get a degree in nursing you have to want to be a nurse, where the degree is required. If I want to be a nurse should I go get a degree or certificate as an X-Ray tech or ER Tech only? Uh no.

To obtain a CDL, you have to want to be part of a business or ogranization that requires a CDL. If I want to drive an 18 wheeler cross country, should I get a degree in auto repair? Uh no.

To be a police officer many require 24-60 college credits in ANY degree. While I do agree with you that yes it does take time and effort which they are looking for, how useful is a degree in Electrical Engineering to a police office? Very little.

So here are your choices:

YOU require advanced life support. Which Paramedic do YOU want working on YOU:

A- The medic who obtained and worked for his cert because he wanted to be a paramedic?

or
B- The medic who eeked by/doesn't care about his skill/obtained his cert because he wanted to be a career firefighter and get the badge?

I will clue you in, working in an ALS enriched area. There IS a difference in the Pt care skills.
I'm going to have to agree with Smith on this one. The "hole" in your argument is you're assuming that people who get their paramedic cert and originally only wanted to be firefighters won't be good paramedics, and that's just not the case. There are a lot people becoming certified paramedics just to get a badge who find out that they're really good at pre-hospital care and wind up enjoying it. People who aren't caring or compassionate and try to finish paramedic school usually wind up dropping out because it's just too much damned work just for a piece of paper if you don't enjoy the field at all.

The problem is that fire and EMS got bundled together to bring in more tax dollars, because EMS brings in so many more calls than fire does –- more calls = more $$. That's why cops get the bucks they do. Doc, you can't blame people who want a job as a firefighter for trying to become paramedics. It's not their fault that the system is setup this way.

You were taking on a little bit of a holier-than-thou attitude with your first post. Not everyone can be in a position where they already have a career like you do with the Navy and are just involved in the fire service for the pure enjoyment of it. People need jobs, and they have to do everything that they can to get one in the fire service.

[JLam77]

Maybe. But at least I can read, figure out who wrote what and respond to it accordingly. Knowing that you are a major supporter of Major Spammer and Mini Spammer, I am not the least bit surprised you used someone else's words to try and support your position. But hey, if it floats your boat. Have at it. :cool: This made absolutely no sense. What in the sam hell are you talking about?

[FortechFEO]

All I have to say is WOW! I thought this thread would have been a spirited debate on whether or not a degree was important to get hired. I would have to say that is definitely not the case. Couple of questions or thoughts I guess.

JLam: why is it every time I start reading a board I see your name and it usually involves some sort of type written argument? Maybe it is just lately or maybe it isn't I don't know. This place is based on free speech and collar brass at the door, but it is also built on respect for your brothers and sisters who are or want to be in this field. By insulting and fighting with others on here you devalue the advice you are giving to the people that really want to be a firefighter and are trying to get a job. You may have good advice don't get me wrong, but it is your actions that devalue your own advice.

Pete: Read above same for you too. An never insult a man's home much less a brothers. VB has it's own charms just like every other city in the world. Good for them that they took the money, time, and forward thinking to change an ugly landfill into a park. Negative thinking leads to negative results.

CalBou: Your very right. You weren't pimping Medic school. 8 out of 10 jobs here in Cali FF/Medic an to be really competitive you have to be a medic. I'm an EMT now and looking at a lot of places I would like to test are medic only. The only disclaimer I will put out there on the end of this is and it isn't directed at you CalBou is: Be an EMT for at a min. a year working on an Ambulance will open your eyes and let you know if you really want to be a medic. An give you some good skills to take to medic school!

VBDoc: Thanks for doing your duty. We all appreciate it no matter what comes out of some of their mouths. My old man was stationed at VB for a bit. Not only are you Navy, but also a volunteer. Your family must be swelling with pride. Just remember with a lot of the stuff that is passed down the chain of command comes the same thing here. Take it all with a grain of salt and take from it what you will. :)

If any of you have ill will or would like to chat with me about what I said. PM me. I'd be happy to chat.


Just an uneducated Forestry Technician (Fire),

Forestry Technician Fire Engine Operator

[DocVBFDE14]

I am far from the only military person on this thread. I thank you for your thanks and it shows alot. I have grown accustomed to most people just taking what the members of the Armed Forces and Civil Service workers for granted.

Degree's are far from worthless. A degree will show committment no matter where you apply.

As I said before, yes there are places where ALS skills are all but a requirement. However there are literally hundreds if not thousands of fire departments that do not require one to be a paramedic. In fact for some it can hinder you, if the fire department does not run any ALS.

No matter where you apply, a degree will not be a hinder.

This has been and will remain my bone of contention with this thread:
"In case you haven’t noticed there is an army (or air force) out there with every degree, certificate, experience, military time, volunteer and every merit badge you could imagine trying to be one of up to 800 competing for each firefighter job.

How many are competing for each fire/medic job? 12-20."

If it is a requirement and you WANT to be a firefighter medic. Go for it.

If it is NOT a requirement and you have NO DESIRE to be a firefighter medic, DON"T do it.

Again, if you have had experience with ALS providers who obtained their cert just to get a firefighters position, you will understand.

[ffbam24]

...Again, if you have had experience with ALS providers who obtained their cert just to get a firefighters position, you will understand.I have a friend (really not me) who has a BA, state fire academy, paramedic certificate and a few other certs; who for the life of him cannot understand why he hasn't been hired yet.
I've tried to explain to him a few times that he shouldn't go into an interview thinking he is owed the job because of these.

[peterbound]

ForTech.. fella.. don't get ahead of yourself.. if should be thanking anyone for the service they provide.. thank my silly butt.. as for arguments.. can't really say i try to start them or engage in them.. i did start this thread and really wanted to know if getting your degree helps... if you want to point that accusatory finger somewhere send it over Doc's way.. he's the flammer here.. no one else.. i don't know what brand of rosy colored glasses you got on.. but they sure are messing up your reading skills.
and i have have actual brothers and sisters that are firefighters.. that were birthed from my mother's loins.. Doc ain't one of them, so don't try to use that tactic on me. I don't care if the guy pulls some hose once a month or not.. don't make him my brother.
Thanks for all the info on the actual thread for those that gave it.. i'm out.
-pete

[JLam77]

JLam: why is it every time I start reading a board I see your name and it usually involves some sort of type written argument? Maybe it is just lately or maybe it isn't I don't know. This place is based on free speech and collar brass at the door, but it is also built on respect for your brothers and sisters who are or want to be in this field. By insulting and fighting with others on here you devalue the advice you are giving to the people that really want to be a firefighter and are trying to get a job. You may have good advice don't get me wrong, but it is your actions that devalue your own advice.I call 'em as I see 'em. Sorry dude.

There is a difference between having respect for what people do and thinking that their opinions are crap. My stepfather was a world-class firefighter. He saved more people than I can count both as a medic and as a balls-to-the-wall firefighter, back in the days where an SCBA was looked upon as a crutch. He has my utmost respect in that regard. That being said, in his personal life, he's a giant @sshole. He alienated his own kids and his stepkids with his actions, and for that I hold him in disdain. It's a strange dichotomy indeed. But that's the way it is.

I have all the respect in the world for people who fight fires for a living. That's why I'm trying to become one. But if you make a bad argument and I disagree with you, I'm going to do it because this is an open forum. Obviously if this were a firehouse and I were a rookie I'd keep my damn mouth shut. But it's not, so I won't.

Plus, in reality I'm not all that argumentative. It's just very easy to do while I'm sitting here at my kitchen table. :p

[SCSmith]

VBDoc: Thanks for doing your duty. We all appreciate it no matter what comes out of some of their mouths. My old man was stationed at VB for a bit. Not only are you Navy, but also a volunteer. Your family must be swelling with pride. Just remember with a lot of the stuff that is passed down the chain of command comes the same thing here. Take it all with a grain of salt and take from it what you will.

There is a difference between having respect for what people do and thinking that their opinions are crap.

Exactly! I totally respect someone for being in the armed forces and volunteering their time to the fire service, but that doesn't mean I'm going to turn off my sense of judgment and agree with whatever that person says. There's no rank in open forums like these. You're judged on the merit of your posts here.

Doc seems to think that if you become certified as a paramedic without having the sole intention of being a paramedic only, that you'll just squeak through paramedic training and only give mediocre care according to his "experience." I'm not saying that's never the case, but he's making a broad generalization, because I don't think that's the rule. I've known a couple people who wound up being paramedics who didn't originally get into the fire service with that in mind. They're very compassionate, intelligent and capable individuals who have become great paramedics.

I know in the military you're not encouraged to question the system, but if you have a problem with people going through paramedic training to become firefighters, Doc, then blame the system, because that's what's dictating all of this. Like LightsAndSirens said, without EMS being paired with fire, there would be far less paid firefighters out there, because EMS is what helps bring in those tax dollars.

Doc, I will agree with you, though, that I would rather have someone giving me ALS treatment because they care and not just because it's their job.

[FortechFEO]

All I did was thank Doc for his service. If their is others on this thread serving thanks as well. I make it a point to thank everyone in the service for what they do.

I don't agree with people being medics because they have to be one bit. I am married to a medic and am an EMT. I see what crappy medics do and what good medics do. The crappy ones seem to be there because it is an easy buck or two. In the end whether you have to be or don't have to be it is your choice to be a good medic or a bad one.

As for getting a degree why wouldn't you get a degree? Some places require an Assoc. just to get in the door to test in California. Others will give you a pay bonus for having it. Nothing wrong with a little more money. Some places it won't help you at all and others it will help you when you reach BC and above if you ever get there. In the end there is nothing wrong with having a little more education.

As I said in my last letter rank has no privileges in these threads. I throw my bugles on the table and sit at my desk every time I log in here. I have the same problems as everyone else. I'm trying to move departments and branch out into new portions of my career. I approach everyday as a new challenge to overcome. I've spent time as a Hotshot, Helicopter Rappeller, Helishot, Engine crew member, volunteer firefighter, EMT, On-call EMT, Engineer, Fire Marshal, Incident commander, Hazmat Tech, and a bunch of other random things. In the end how I make it through the day is with the help of my Brothers and Sisters in the service of their communities. A few have saved my bacon and others I have saved theirs. I stumbled into this career and ended up loving it and staying with it. None of my family has even volunteered at their local departments. I am truly my own person and will encourage my kids to be Dr., Lawyers, or what ever they want to be. I really don't care if your family has been firefighters or not. It's all about the name you make for yourself! Just so no one mistakes what I am saying. I don't care who or what your family has done or where they are. If you are in the fire service good for you. Welcome to the family. If you are not, but want to be and are testing all over. Good Luck I wish you the best of luck. Maybe tomorrow you will get a call.

All in all your opinion is just that your opinion an mine is mine. So I'll take the positive approach and say I'll talk to you two later. Hopefully you'll have badges then. :)

[CaptBob]

that's cool
but you didn't answer my question:
How is phoenix fire testing process different than most?
My old man works there, and it's the only one i've been exposed to.. so i'd like to know how it's different to be able to prepare in case i decide to test elsewhere.
-pete

I posted:

Pete:

I'm sure you dad can fill you in on Phoenix. Give me call if you want more. 888-238-3959.

If you want more call or PM me.

"Captain Bob" www.eatstress.com