Size-up/tactics - Firehouse Forums

WTFDChief730 · 03-05-2004, 06:43 PM

Your first in on this fire situation, what are some of the things you notice in your initial size-up. What would be your attack plan.
What are some of your concerns with the lay out of this building that could cause an accountability problem with your crews working inside.

http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=45&id=24566

WTFD10 · 03-05-2004, 08:02 PM

One good thing, nobody has to open up the roof

I think interior truck work will be the key to a good stop in this one. Quickly get a 1 3/4" line in with a couple ff w/ hooks to get the ceilings pulled.

I would knock down any visible fire from the doorway and then start pulling ceiling and pull it all the way through the house.

A backup line following the initial attack line is a must here, with the attic so involved, it would be very easy for the first line to get cutoff.

As far as layout, this appears to be a one story ranch from Side "Alpha" but as you make your way around to Side "Charlie" you can see it is actually two stories. Could cause confusion as far as "Division 1", "Sub-Division 1", etc.

How'd I do Boss, miss anything?

WTFDChief730 · 03-05-2004, 09:40 PM

Great Job Moe !! Your thinking was right with mine, Great minds think a like...or in our case maybe its fools seldom differ..LOL

But anyway, good observations, roof ventilation has already taken care of itself, so we wont have to worry about filling that functional sector (ventilation). Getting hand lines in and under the main body of fire and pull ceiling is a good initial tactic, and chances are on this one that may be enough to extinquish this fire.

But the main thing was the unusual layout like you pointed out, from side A, it looks like a 1-story ranch, but as you can see from side C it could cause some confusion like you mentioned. This was the exact same layout as the fatal Bryclyn St. fire in Pittsburgh a few years back.

WTFD10 · 03-06-2004, 10:03 AM

What would be your plan of attack for this?

More pics here: http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...5&sectionId=45

Weruj1 · 03-06-2004, 12:03 PM

well due to it being a one story home (ranch) ........it is already in the attic and it will be a hard stop, if not a total loss. I beleieve that TFRD had one of these not to long ago in the southwest end of town with Rentzhofer and OHFD also ...........I would send a crew in to try and attack and recon...............roof ops look very shaky at best..........like I said this may be a write off depending on time of day etc and fire advancement.If there is a report of someone trapped, I may forgo attack and do a quick search and get out ..........I dont know what the best answer for this is .....

PFD109NFD107 · 03-07-2004, 11:45 AM

If this home is designed like others I have been in, the fire are is the kitchen with extension into the living room. The front door should be located near the A-D corner. A quick aggressive interior attack from the front door should knock down the fire rather quickly. If the fire has extended into the attic start pulling the ceiling. The bedrooms should be at the other end of the residence so if there were occupants still inside they would be salvagable. Depending on the fire conditions on the A side, the search crews may have to enter via a bedroom window.

Ohiovolffemtp · 03-11-2004, 12:37 AM

In addition to pulling ceiling, has anyone used the tactic of cutting a hole in the attic wall on the side opposite the fire and using a hose stream to stop the fire from pushing across the attic? Many ranch style homes have open attics and this can stop horizontal spread.

WTFD10 · 03-11-2004, 12:57 AM

I've seen a department do this accidently on a chimney fire that extended to the attic.

They threw a ladder to the vent, knocked the vent louvers out and shoved a fog nozzle in. The resulting steam put the fire out.

WTFDChief730 · 03-11-2004, 10:20 PM

Moe,

I was told Bedford FD had a structure fire the other day and two FF's were cought in a flashover, two sets of turnout gear were destroyed but fortunatly the two were not burned or hurt. The Bedford Chief stated that the two members used some of the techniques tought in our recent RIT class at Monroe Twp. FD and it helped them in this bad situation. One FF was totally on fire and had to be extinguished by the back up crew.

This was the first I have heard that some of our RIT/save our own training may have payed off.

WTFD10 · 03-11-2004, 10:47 PM

That's great!

03-05-2004, 06:43 PM	#1
WTFDChief730 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 102	Size-up/tactics Your first in on this fire situation, what are some of the things you notice in your initial size-up. What would be your attack plan. What are some of your concerns with the lay out of this building that could cause an accountability problem with your crews working inside. http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=45&id=24566 Last edited by WTFDChief730; 03-05-2004 at 06:49 PM.

03-05-2004, 08:02 PM	#2
WTFD10 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,722	One good thing, nobody has to open up the roof I think interior truck work will be the key to a good stop in this one. Quickly get a 1 3/4" line in with a couple ff w/ hooks to get the ceilings pulled. I would knock down any visible fire from the doorway and then start pulling ceiling and pull it all the way through the house. A backup line following the initial attack line is a must here, with the attic so involved, it would be very easy for the first line to get cutoff. As far as layout, this appears to be a one story ranch from Side "Alpha" but as you make your way around to Side "Charlie" you can see it is actually two stories. Could cause confusion as far as "Division 1", "Sub-Division 1", etc. How'd I do Boss, miss anything? __________________ FTM-PTB-DTRT

03-06-2004, 10:03 AM	#4
WTFD10 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,722	How about this one... What would be your plan of attack for this? More pics here: http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...5&sectionId=45 Attached Images __________________ FTM-PTB-DTRT

03-06-2004, 12:03 PM	#5
Weruj1 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 7,655	well due to it being a one story home (ranch) ........it is already in the attic and it will be a hard stop, if not a total loss. I beleieve that TFRD had one of these not to long ago in the southwest end of town with Rentzhofer and OHFD also ...........I would send a crew in to try and attack and recon...............roof ops look very shaky at best..........like I said this may be a write off depending on time of day etc and fire advancement.If there is a report of someone trapped, I may forgo attack and do a quick search and get out ..........I dont know what the best answer for this is ..... __________________ IACOJ both divisions and PROUD OF IT ! Pardon me sir.. .....but I believe we are all over here ! ATTENTION ALL SHOPPERS: Will the dead horse please report to the forums.(thanks Motown) RAY WAS HERE 08/28/05 LETHA' FOREVA' ! 010607 I'm sorry, I haven't been paying much attention for the last 3 hours.....what were we discussing?

03-11-2004, 12:37 AM	#7
Ohiovolffemtp MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Clermont County, Ohio Posts: 572	In addition to pulling ceiling, has anyone used the tactic of cutting a hole in the attic wall on the side opposite the fire and using a hose stream to stop the fire from pushing across the attic? Many ranch style homes have open attics and this can stop horizontal spread. __________________ Proud to be honored with IACOJ membership. Blessed by TWO meals cooked by Cheffie - a true culinary goddess. Expressing my own views, not my organization's.

03-05-2004, 09:40 PM	#3
WTFDChief730 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 102	Great Job Moe !! Your thinking was right with mine, Great minds think a like...or in our case maybe its fools seldom differ..LOL But anyway, good observations, roof ventilation has already taken care of itself, so we wont have to worry about filling that functional sector (ventilation). Getting hand lines in and under the main body of fire and pull ceiling is a good initial tactic, and chances are on this one that may be enough to extinquish this fire. But the main thing was the unusual layout like you pointed out, from side A, it looks like a 1-story ranch, but as you can see from side C it could cause some confusion like you mentioned. This was the exact same layout as the fatal Bryclyn St. fire in Pittsburgh a few years back.

03-07-2004, 11:45 AM	#6
PFD109NFD107 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Jul 1999 Location: Northwood, Ohio, 43619 Posts: 356	If this home is designed like others I have been in, the fire are is the kitchen with extension into the living room. The front door should be located near the A-D corner. A quick aggressive interior attack from the front door should knock down the fire rather quickly. If the fire has extended into the attic start pulling the ceiling. The bedrooms should be at the other end of the residence so if there were occupants still inside they would be salvagable. Depending on the fire conditions on the A side, the search crews may have to enter via a bedroom window.

03-11-2004, 12:57 AM	#8
WTFD10 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,722	I've seen a department do this accidently on a chimney fire that extended to the attic. They threw a ladder to the vent, knocked the vent louvers out and shoved a fog nozzle in. The resulting steam put the fire out. __________________ FTM-PTB-DTRT

03-11-2004, 10:20 PM	#9
WTFDChief730 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 102	Moe, I was told Bedford FD had a structure fire the other day and two FF's were cought in a flashover, two sets of turnout gear were destroyed but fortunatly the two were not burned or hurt. The Bedford Chief stated that the two members used some of the techniques tought in our recent RIT class at Monroe Twp. FD and it helped them in this bad situation. One FF was totally on fire and had to be extinguished by the back up crew. This was the first I have heard that some of our RIT/save our own training may have payed off.

03-11-2004, 10:47 PM	#10
WTFD10 MembersZone Subscriber Join Date: Dec 2000 Posts: 1,722	That's great! __________________ FTM-PTB-DTRT

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