Apparatus Visibility - Battenburg Reflective Blocking

[sklump]

Does anyone know where you can get the stripes in the bright yellow 3m does not show it.

[Lifeguard911]

We have a red/yellow chevron on our the back of our new (10/06) rescue units. They are the first two trucks in our department to have them. Personally, I hate the chevrons. After four or five months of seeing how well they work, I have noticed no change in the behavior of traffic while we are parked on scene compared to units that have no chevrons on them. Drivers do not slow down anymore when going around the scene. They still drive like s***heads.
Our new trucks are loaded with lots of flashing LED's and such and I think we have too many lights operating onscene. I am going to forward some of the links in this thread to my Officers that discuss using less lighting onscene.
We always position our apparatus defensively to protect the scene, place cones out to move the oncoming traffic around the rigs and have people on traffic control on each end of the scene to control traffic. All firefighters are ordered to wear lime-green vests at all times (that's a whole new thread!), except during fire incidents.
One problem I have noticed when chevrons are applied, is the ability to see lettering such as "STAY BACK". The letters are usually placed over the chevrons and get lost in the pattern. Where lettering is applied there should be an area cut out so the lettering has a solid color behind them for easy reading.
I would like to see a study done over the next couple of years to see if the chevrons or other markings make any significant improvement in our safety or whether they are just the latest gimmick to come along.

my 2 cents worth

[ADSNWFLD]

And that would be the key. We (the fireservice) are famous for just jumping into things or having NFPA make it a standard.
Europe has has these markings for some time now, but one thing you havent seen is the lights increase like they have over here.
A rig with tons of lights will blind drivers coming towards a scene and the stripes on our coats don't do anything.
I think an interesting study would be just an arrow bar with the reflective stripes on the rear.
I vote Battenburg, but I also thought that the slime green rigs were easier to see then red ones. (I didn't say I liked them better but they can be seen)

[BlitzfireSolo]

Well, for those of you who weren't aware, we finally chose to go ahead and install a Full Battenburg spec reflective package on our new rig. The job is completely out of 3M Diamond Grade reflective sheeting, and was completed this week by graphics professionals from SVI Graphics of Loveland, CO.

We believe that we now have the first Full Battenburg 'Livery' package in the U.S. - thanks to SVI and a great deal of trust by members of the HFD.

I'll provide better pictures over the weekend, but here's a couple of phone shots for now (I figured I had to bring this thread back for an update):

[skipatrol8]

Definetley not for everyone, but it looks awesome to me. I like how the inside of the bumper is marked, so at MVAs when the tools are deployed, you can still see it. Is there any material on the front of the bumper when the lid is closed?

[5alarmcooker]

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[Res343cue]

Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

im sorry but that stuff has to stay in Europe, fire trucks are red and can have white over it with a stripe down the side. Now that you got a 2 year old answer this is my true feeling and logic emergency workers get killed by drivers cause lets face it 90 percent of the worlds drivers just s$ck. Nothing will change that, a billion lights or a chess board in funny colors on the side of apparatus will not change how people drive. I can deal with the chevrons on the back and like the new miami dade velocity on the bumper but to do the sides and the rest of the truck like that is purely rediculous. When that doesnt work they're going to tell us to put chevrons on the trucks and inside each chevron stripe there has to be LEDs that flash making the truck like one of those huge billboards you see in vegas cmon people get real.

"Fire trucks are red and can have white over it with a stripe down the side". That really must make the truck do it's job. With that statement alone you are showing a bias towards the appearance of the apparatus and not increased visibility.

There is no way you can prove that having increased reflective material does not improve visibility. Paint, by default, isn't a reflective material. With the additional striping and patterns there is more surface area of reflective material that would INCREASE visiblity.

They never claimed that it would prevent drunk drivers or bad drivers from striking the apparatus, but it does give the "average Joe" something else to make it stand out from other vehicles.

[Pyroechidna1]

And it looks good too. Let's not forget that part.

[BlitzfireSolo]

Alright, here's some real pictures.













(That's better.)

[BlitzfireSolo]

Skipatrol - the entire bumper is black/gray reflective vinyl - you can see it a little in the photo below. I will take some night shots when I get a chance:

Originally Posted by Pyroechidna1

And it looks good too. Let's not forget that part.

You know, it's funny - when we first proposed this, some people flat out opposed it, but most reluctantly supported it in the name of firefighter safety. Now that it's done, it is really growing on people - most of the ones that hated it before have at least said that "it's not that bad" or that it's growing on them, and many others have started to really like it. There's a actually quite a bit of pride building around it now.

A couple of notes on the design:

- We were originally hoping to get a little bit more chevron coverage in the rear, but it's so busy with everything back there, it was not very possible. We are going to be adding some of the blue-border yellow stripes (like the ones on the front) to the rear, near the bottom.

- All shelf and tray edges will be fitted with yellow diamond grade shortly.

- Thanks again to the crew from SVI Graphics - they did this entire installation in two days. For those of you who have never seen it, 3M Diamond Grade sheeting is very difficult to work with - SVI specializes in working with the material, which is why we chose them for this project. SAFETEK - thanks for the recommendation!

[Ledebuhr1]

BlitzfireSolo,

When you put this rig out to bid, did you have a hard time getting builders to build it to your spec? it is definatly not an ordinary rig. What was the prices of the other bidders?

thanks

[Pyroechidna1]

I've gotta tell you personally, BlitzFire-that is one delightful truck.

I wish more police agencies in the US would pick up the green-and-blue battenburg colors of the UK. I also wish that some US fire department would give Netherlands colors a go:

http://proto5.thinkquest.nl/~kle0001.../brandweer.jpg
I always imagine that it would look nice stuck on a Rosenbauer Commander AT chassis. The Spartan derivative.

[5alarmcooker]

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[skipatrol8]

Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

First off im not bias towards anything fire trucks can be any color and have whatever striping the personel wish which if you read it was why i identified my sarcastic comment of that being a 2 year old answer to the question, what i am simply stating is that if someone is going to hit your apparatus its not goin to be because you didnt have reflective striping or some other visible warning to the driver. 99% of the time it is because the person is totally out of it not paying attention or what not because the copeous ammounts of lights most of us have on our apparatus are seen well further than the striping and people still hit apparatus. i have a bright orange vehicle and wouldnt you know it during the bright sunny days here on the highway i continue to have near misses because people simply take driving as a given right to them for living here. Im just stating that i feel no more safe with a glow in the dark truck as i do with how our truck are right now. Now my understanding is that the reflective striping is something for the night it really doesnt have a big effect during the day, then tell me why departments that have bright yellow, safety orange, and florecent green trucks with a minimum of 20 combinations of LED, strobe, and halogen warning lights still continue to lose people in bright daylight. Chevrons and checkers are not an answer to better safety, the answer is to make it harder for people to obtain drivers licenses and make stiffer penalties for people who break the law as a safety hazard. The govt and public is quick to jump on us about an emergency worker killing someone in an MVA where the emergency workers at fault, however i do not know this is just a guess but i bet more civilians kill emergency workers a year than the other way around so how bout making the civilians go through the same day to day training to be able to opperate their equipment.

Unfortunately it is rather difficult to make getting a license more difficult. The only difficult thing about getting your apparatus more visible is the small amount of funds needed and maybe the department and member's approval. Honestly, why not try anything to get the truck more visible. It isn't going to make the truck easier to hit is it? You probably will never know how effective it is for sure, but that's probably a good thing. Anything to keep the cars from hitting the apparatus is good.

Say, Blitz, what happened to the lasers?

[firetdriver99]

Just was curious I like the concept but the only problem I see with this particular apparatus is why is the striping so high on the vehicle. the striping to be effective should be place at headlight height for the average vehicle. The concept shown would work well on the highways with large trucks but I cant see it being very effective approaching an intersection with a regular size family car or mini van. Also when the compartment doors are up there is no refelctive tape on the shelving which poses a little problem. Nice concept and nice looking vehicle but I cant see it being effective at the height it was placed on this particular apparatus.

[5alarmcooker]

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[FyredUp]

I can't help but wonder, if the point of all this striping and the different pattern is to make the vehicle more visible, why this rescue pumper isn't lime green? Dr Solomon prooved almost 3 decades ago that lime green was far more visible than red for fire trucks. So maybe you should have lime green trucks AND this wonderful striping. Or is the striping being used to justify a less visible paint job on the truck in the first place?

Things that make you go hmmmm....

Again if you like this striping pattern more power to you. I personally think it is hideous, but then again this isn't my FD.

FyredUp

[DeputyChiefGonzo]

I am surprised that Dupont, Sherwin Williams, PPG, Glasurit, Rinshed Mason and other vehicle paint manufacturer's haven't figured out a way to make the entire paintwork on an emergency vehicle light reflective.

[skipatrol8]

Originally Posted by 5alarmcooker

i totally agree it wont hurt but you said it right there, the all mighty dollar bill. departments out there just dont have the money and i mean if it comes down to havin this exquisite reflective striping or equiping my truck sorry but ill do with my single reflective stripe and warning lights. My department is fortunate enough to get a chiefs car everytime the police beats up there crown vics, crash them 3 times, and put 100 thousand miles on them.

Agreed that it is a money factor...however, instead of the pretty 100% real gold leaf striping, why not get pseudo-gold leaf and battenburgs. I imagine the price can't be all that much different.

[redbaron]

A dip of the Redbarons wing to Blitzfire, keep up the good work.