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    Default What? Insurance Company sue the VFD? That can't be! That's just not fair!

    Insurance Company Sues Ohio Fire Dept; Company Not Happy With Firefighters Performance


    MAC CORDELL
    Courtesy of The Madison Press

    A Baltimore, Ohio-based insurance company was forced to pay after a 2003 house fire.

    Apparently, the company believes the Jefferson Township Fire Department is to blame.

    Farmers Insurance, of Ohio has sued the Jefferson Township Fire Department for its handling of a Thursday, Dec. 4, fire at the home of George and Beth Staton, 6118 North Road, West Jefferson.

    "The owner or the insurance company was apparently not happy with our performance," said Jefferson Township Fire Department Chief Bill Houk.

    The suit, filed Thursday, April 29, alleges that "defendants (JTFD and 12 firefighters individually named in the suit) failed to perform their services at subject property in a professional manner including, but not limited to, failing to take adequate steps to ensure that damages were minimized, running out of water to extinguish the blaze and failing to utilize close resources as an alternative water supply."

    The fire started in the attached garage, where George Staton was welding on a car about 4:30 p.m. The day after the fire, JTFD Chief Bill Houk said George Staton believed a spark flew from the welder onto a car seat.

    George Staton attempted to use a fire extinguisher to douse the fire, then went outside to get a garden hose to continue the effort, but was unable to enter the garage again, Houk said.

    The garage was fully engulfed in flames and the fire was spreading to the house when firefighters from JTFD arrived at the scene. The car in the garage was destroyed. A car in the driveway also was destroyed. A third vehicle, also in the driveway, was heavily damaged.

    The house and its attached garage were heavily damaged. Firefighters remained on the scene three hours and returned an hour later in response to a report that the fire had rekindled. They returned to the scene shortly after 7 a.m. the following day to deal with another rekindle.

    Houk was contacted about the suit. He would not comment about the specifics of the fire.

    Personnel from eight area fire departments assisted units from JTFD.

    Farmers Insurance provided coverage for the Statons at the time of the fire. The company filed suit, seeking a minimum of $185,000, from the fire department and the individual firefighters.

    "Jefferson Township Fire Department knew or should have known that the individual firefighters dispatched to Mr. and Mrs. Station's home did not possess the necessary and/or requisite skills to extinguish the fire and minimize the amount of damages sustained to the Staton home," according to the suit.

    Friday, Madison County Court of Common Pleas Judge Robert Nichols ruled to dismiss claims against the actual fire department, but did not dismiss claims against the firefighters, including Houk and Assistant Fire Chief Paul (Buck) Van Horn.

    According to the Ohio Revised Code a political subdivision, such as a township, in most instances is immune from liability in civil cases. Individual employees of the political subdivision are not immune.

    The suit alleges the firefighters handled the fire improperly and that their handling of the fire increased the amount of the claim the insurance company was forced to pay.

    "Defendant firefighters... individually and/or as employees of the Jefferson Township Fire Department, performed their professional firefighting duties/services in a reckless, willful and or wanton manner through their actions or omissions," according to the suit.

    "As a direct and proximate result of the reckless, willful and/or wanton actions and/or omissions of the defendant firefighters, individually and/or as employees of the Jefferson Township Fire Department, Plaintiff's insured sustained substantial damages."

    W. Charles Curley, attorney for the fire department, also represents the individual firefighters. He declined to comment about the specifics of the fire, but said he is confident the court will find his clients did not act with malice, recklessness or wanton neglect.

    He filed a letter with the court, seeking sanctions against the insurance company for having sought damages against the township.

    "We believe that it (the township's immunity) is so clear in the law, that we believe the suit against the township was a frivolous lawsuit and the insurance company and their attorneys ought to have to reimburse the township for attorney's fees and costs," Curley said.

    Curley said he is not seeking a specific dollar amount.

    No court date has been set for the suit.

    Repeated calls to the homeowner and the insurance company's attorney, Andrew Malone, were not returned.
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    Sadly this is not the first time this has happened.
    A "Good" fire is not measured by how big it is, but by the fact that everyone is going home safe, and that we possibly learned something new about firefighting. Member:IACOJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    Insurance Company Sues Ohio Fire Dept; Company Not Happy With Firefighters Performance


    MAC CORDELL
    Courtesy of The Madison Press

    A Baltimore, Ohio-based insurance company was forced to pay after a 2003 house fire.

    Apparently, the company believes the Jefferson Township Fire Department is to blame.

    Farmers Insurance, of Ohio has sued the Jefferson Township Fire Department for its handling of a Thursday, Dec. 4, fire at the home of George and Beth Staton, 6118 North Road, West Jefferson.

    "The owner or the insurance company was apparently not happy with our performance," said Jefferson Township Fire Department Chief Bill Houk.

    Going out on a limb but is anybody happy with the loss of property?

    The suit, filed Thursday, April 29, alleges that "defendants (JTFD and 12 firefighters individually named in the suit) failed to perform their services at subject property in a professional manner including, but not limited to, failing to take adequate steps to ensure that damages were minimized, running out of water to extinguish the blaze and failing to utilize close resources as an alternative water supply."

    The fire started in the attached garage, where George Staton was welding on a car about 4:30 p.m. The day after the fire, JTFD Chief Bill Houk said George Staton believed a spark flew from the welder onto a car seat.

    Lets not worry about the real cause at this time, lets blame others for there actions.

    George Staton attempted to use a fire extinguisher to douse the fire, then went outside to get a garden hose to continue the effort, but was unable to enter the garage again, Houk said.

    So the home owner wasted precious time trying to do the job that these professionals should have been doing? Did he call 911 first or did he try to be the hero first?

    The garage was fully engulfed in flames and the fire was spreading to the house when firefighters from JTFD arrived at the scene. The car in the garage was destroyed. A car in the driveway also was destroyed. A third vehicle, also in the driveway, was heavily damaged.

    Which car was he working on? that CAUSED the fire to begin with? oh thats right it was the fire departments fault for helping.

    The house and its attached garage were heavily damaged. Firefighters remained on the scene three hours and returned an hour later in response to a report that the fire had rekindled. They returned to the scene shortly after 7 a.m. the following day to deal with another rekindle.

    Houk was contacted about the suit. He would not comment about the specifics of the fire.

    Personnel from eight area fire departments assisted units from JTFD.

    Farmers Insurance provided coverage for the Statons at the time of the fire. The company filed suit, seeking a minimum of $185,000, from the fire department and the individual firefighters.

    "Jefferson Township Fire Department knew or should have known that the individual firefighters dispatched to Mr. and Mrs. Station's home did not possess the necessary and/or requisite skills to extinguish the fire and minimize the amount of damages sustained to the Staton home," according to the suit.

    ahh thats right fires are all the same just put the wet stuff on the red stuff its that simple.

    Friday, Madison County Court of Common Pleas Judge Robert Nichols ruled to dismiss claims against the actual fire department, but did not dismiss claims against the firefighters, including Houk and Assistant Fire Chief Paul (Buck) Van Horn.

    Looks like so far they dont have a case.. So lets go after the people that arnt dismissed? or Immune as stated below? Loop hole....

    According to the Ohio Revised Code a political subdivision, such as a township, in most instances is immune from liability in civil cases. Individual employees of the political subdivision are not immune.

    The suit alleges the firefighters handled the fire improperly and that their handling of the fire increased the amount of the claim the insurance company was forced to pay.

    Because it was the firefighters fault the owner was using a torch on combustable materials right? because we all know the owner had no intent of setting his own house of fire...

    "Defendant firefighters... individually and/or as employees of the Jefferson Township Fire Department, performed their professional firefighting duties/services in a reckless, willful and or wanton manner through their actions or omissions," according to the suit.

    Yea they were just there to roast some weener dogs and have a good time, missing dinner with there wifes, or play time with there kids. I am sure they admitted that it was just fun to be there.

    "As a direct and proximate result of the reckless, willful and/or wanton actions and/or omissions of the defendant firefighters, individually and/or as employees of the Jefferson Township Fire Department, Plaintiff's insured sustained substantial damages."

    Mainly cause the owner didnt do anything to start the problem, he was just working on his car.

    W. Charles Curley, attorney for the fire department, also represents the individual firefighters. He declined to comment about the specifics of the fire, but said he is confident the court will find his clients did not act with malice, recklessness or wanton neglect.

    Hopes that there attorney is right, cause its total BS.

    He filed a letter with the court, seeking sanctions against the insurance company for having sought damages against the township.

    Happy that somthing will come in return, specially considering there not going after the result of the reckless, willful and/or wanton actions and/or omissions of the home owner, for damages he caused.

    "We believe that it (the township's immunity) is so clear in the law, that we believe the suit against the township was a frivolous lawsuit and the insurance company and their attorneys ought to have to reimburse the township for attorney's fees and costs," Curley said.

    Curley said he is not seeking a specific dollar amount.

    No court date has been set for the suit.

    Repeated calls to the homeowner and the insurance company's attorney, Andrew Malone, were not returned.
    Sorry to rant, but as Station2Capt said its no the first time its happend. For chirst sake why not go after the wreakless home owner? because he dont have the money anyways? *sigh*
    Pere Marquette Fire Department
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    Quote Originally Posted by FWDbuff View Post
    The house and its attached garage were heavily damaged. Firefighters remained on the scene three hours and returned an hour later in response to a report that the fire had rekindled. They returned to the scene shortly after 7 a.m. the following day to deal with another rekindle.
    Ya know. I'm not one for attorneys. I was not on scene. I will not throw this department under the bus. Likewise I will NOT blame the owner. I weld and I braze. Done it in my own house or garage. Never set it on fire. However, the risk of a fire is inherent to hot work. I think it puts firefighters in a bad light to attempt to spin this to say that the home owner was at fault for this whole situation. Think it would be rather difficult to prove that this person got up that day and decided to set his garage and vehicles on fire.

    His side, their side, and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

    Having said that.....If the above quote IS true, which it may not be and I hope it is not, I could see where someone might question the qualifications of said department.

    Returning to a scene for ONE rekindle is bad enough. But IF they went back TWICE.....
    Co 11
    Virginia Beach FD

    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    I hope the town is standing behind their VOLUNTEER firefighters here. I do think this will be more of an issue in the future with insurance companies bringing lawsuits against firefighters and fire depts. Just think if they win and the firefighters have to pay for damages. Say good bye to just about every volunteer fire dept in the country. I dont think any volunteer would want to stick his/her own neck out for having liability on a fire that got out of control and destroyed a house.

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    I am also not going to comment on this case since I did not invetigate it. But, as far as the homeowner is concerned. the insurance co. has absolutely no recourse against him. They had a business contract with him to provide homeowners insurance. That business contract provides coverage for losses caused by virtually everything except fraud, including stupidity and carelessness.

    Also generally speaking, trial attorneys can only perpetuate their business by finding new people to sue and new classes of cases to litigate. (See lawsuits against the tobacco industry as a prime example). If this case is succesful, others will follow, opening up a whole new field of potential plaintiffs and defendants-all of who will need lawyers. Get it?

    Now, that said, I have investigated fires where it was clear the FD's actions were inconsistent with their training and made the loss worse. In the most extreme of those cases, if the insurance co. can prove gross negligence, I see no reason why the FD, and possibly the IC, should not be held legally accountable if what they did caused the loss to be financially worse.

    Before you start typing, gross negligence is a difficult legal standard to meet and would only be met in the most extreme cases.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DocVBFDE14 View Post
    Returning to a scene for ONE rekindle is bad enough. But IF they went back TWICE.....
    Same exact thing I thought!

    Maybe they can go in court and proudly proclaim, "But your honor, Everyone went home........3 times. It had to be a positive outcome.....right?"

    Then they can wait for the call from the attorney of the NFFA.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    You get what you pay for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    You get what you pay for.
    Ummm, do you really want to go down this road.

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    I don't know how it is where you guys live but here in sunny So.Fla we have an attorney commercial every 2 minuets. All kinds of dirt balls on TV saying things like "if you were somewhere that should have had an AED and they didn't.....", "not really sure if your injured, then call us and we'll decide for you" etc,etc,etc.

    I can just see the new ones now....."Had your house burned to the ground? Fire Department not there in 5 minuets or less because they're helping someone else? Booster tank on the first arriving engine only 99% full? Just want to sue the pants off the guys that made you 2 minuets late for lunch yesterday because you had to stop to let them pass? Call the law offices of Mutts, Trolls, Dirt bags and associates. Hell, well help you sue your father for that bald spot you inherited!"

    When will it end!
    If your going to cry about doing the job you signed up for do us all a favor and quit, there are plenty of dedicated people standing in line for the best job in the world.

    Firefighter/Paramedic

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    You get what you pay for.
    +000000001

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    You get what you pay for.
    If it really matters, they do pay. From the department's website:

    Jefferson Township Fire Department proudly protects 6,787 people living in an area of approximately 27 square miles and over 45 miles of roads. We operate out of 4 stations that protect a primarily residential area. Our department consists of paid in house professionals and paid on call volunteer professionals. We have an ISO rating of Rural 9 Hydrant 6.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebFire View Post
    If it really matters, they do pay. From the department's website:

    Jefferson Township Fire Department proudly protects 6,787 people living in an area of approximately 27 square miles and over 45 miles of roads. We operate out of 4 stations that protect a primarily residential area. Our department consists of paid in house professionals and paid on call volunteer professionals. We have an ISO rating of Rural 9 Hydrant 6.
    Then this proves it. Johnny is right. An ISO 9 is one step away from the worst you can get. An ISO 6 is 5 steps away from the best rating you can have.

    This is not a paid/volunteer issue. You DO get what you pay for.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    This whole thing was discussed here way back in 2004 when it was originally filed and settled. FWD, you really need to talk to your newspaper carrier about delivering your newspaper a little more quickly.

    Farmer's Insurance had sued the FD and the individual firefighters that had responded. The Prosecuting Attorney (the Township's legal officer by Ohio law) filed a motion to dismiss the Township due to statutory immunity, and for sanctions, including costs to defend and punitive damages against both Farmer's Insurance and the attorney for filing what they knew or should have known to be a frivolous lawsuit (you hafta love karma, don't ya?). The judge dismissed the suit against the Township, but let the suits against the individual firefighters stand.

    In the following days, the Prosecutor offered to drop the request for sanctions if the suit against the individual firefighters would be dropped, to which Farmer's agreed. My guess is that the sanctions far exceeded what they could have possibly recovered from the 12 firefighters named in the suit.

    Some may ask why they didn't just allow the suit to continue and collect against the insurance company. I'll just say that I know the guy that investigated this fire, and will only say that there were, in fact, major problems in the way this fire was handled. Like any jury trial you can't necessarily predict how they'll find, especially in civil cases. With the possibility of the private investigation report coming into court, they were wise in just walking away.
    Last edited by Steamer; 04-12-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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    I dont think its right that they insurance company is suing the individual FF's, but if they did go back twice for rekindles, then its obvious there is a serious lack of fire knowledge/training and they probably souldnt be fighting fire.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaytallica45 View Post
    I dont think its right that they insurance company is suing the individual FF's, but if they did go back twice for rekindles, then its obvious there is a serious lack of fire knowledge/training and they probably souldnt be fighting fire.
    Possibly, but what exactly was the rekindle. We've been called back for "rekindles" to find a whisp of smoke from a pile of ashes. Hardly a rekindle, but it goes in the books the same.

    Now, I am not saying that is what happened here. Just saying not to assume the worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MemphisE34a View Post
    Then this proves it. Johnny is right. An ISO 9 is one step away from the worst you can get. An ISO 6 is 5 steps away from the best rating you can have.

    This is not a paid/volunteer issue. You DO get what you pay for.
    Thanks Memphis. I actually didn't catch that when I read it the first time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    You get what you pay for.
    You want me to go down a list of the gems I have investigated involving career FD's who deserve to get sued?
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    You truely get what you pay for. They were a partial paid department mixed with vollies. And people wonder why there insurance is so high in a volunteer district. Is that extra couple of bucks you save in taxes really worth a delayed response to your home that is burning.

    Pay your firefighters, they deserve it.

    Now everyone feel free to berate me...

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    Yes, Sir could you please sign and return this waiver and then we will come and try to put out your fire.
    Hello 911 are you yourself or are you related to an attorney, no then how may we help you.
    Hello 911 who is your insurance company and what dose your policy cover.
    Yes, sir we will go up and get your cat just as soon as you show us notarized copies of his vaccination records.
    No sir we can't use any water on your fire because if we run out your insurance company might sue us.

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    Don't blame the volunteers or the towns and city for lack of pay and lack of paid staff its not all there fault. Blame the US Government for your cuts in pay and paid staff. Its only going to get worse for you guys as fuel prices rise and everything else, the towns and citys have to make cuts somewhere and it usually starts with you. The cost of doing buisness goes up for them and instead of raising taxes they fine areas to make cuts and it always seems to start with you.

    The volunteer guys will always be there no matter what because citys can't afford to add paid staff do to the cost. This is your Government at work for you. I believe you guys always get the short end of the stick sometimes do to cuts.

    So you get what you pay for every time you send in a payment to the US Government. Start the blame at the top not at the bottom.

    We have all gone back for a rekindle 1 time or another and nobody likes to here that but 2 or 3 times is alittle much.

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    Look whatever this case was about, it was settled a long time ago as was pointed out.

    Having said that, I would venture to say that most of us have little in the way to be worried about. If we preform our DUTIES and RESPONSIBILITIES to the best of our TRAINED abilities we will be fine.

    Now based solely on the information given in the article that FWD posted, and this is the preamble. That information COULD be WRONG, TILTED, or fabricated. However that information could also be RIGHT. I know not. I was not there as I said before.

    However based on the information given:
    • failing to take adequate steps to ensure that damages were minimized
    Can we say Salvage 101?
    • running out of water to extinguish the blaze
    Can we say Water Supply 101?
    • failing to utilize close resources as an alternative water supply
    Ok, this is more advanced, Water Supply 401.

    And just a friendly reminder: Called back twice for rekindles.

    IF the above is true, then this department would be in line for some serious training. IF it is true, I could see where a home owner or insurance company would be upset with the performance of the subject matter experts.

    However, they could be an outstanding (no, not OUT standing) department. I don't know. I am not a resident there so I am not inclined to research their abilities.

    Step back and look at the big picture. It is all about money. I know as a home owner myself I'd be a little upset if the fire department ran outta water and didn't have a clue how to acquire more.
    Co 11
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    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labador View Post
    Blame the US Government for your cuts in pay and paid staff
    How in the hell are the Feds at fault for this?

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    resQengine,

    Alot of it has to do with the cost of the war which was brought on by the president and government. Fuel prices are costing city towns and villages alot more on the cost of doing buisness take for an example if a city needs to pave some roads which use asphalt its costs now are double due to fuel prices. Cuts have to be made by town city or villages in order to do maintance and everyday services as prices go up from government spending which is out of controll. That reflects on what is more important fix the roads or hire some more paid staff for the fire department or better yet cut your pay in order to avoid raising taxes. I have seen it time and time again the first thing they look to cut is the fire service not always but most of the time.

    Anyways this is way off the subject which was posted [ sorry for that ]

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    Lab,

    Tell me what size shirt you wear and I'll send your official tie dyed Obama '08 t-shirt to you.

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