1. #1
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    Default ISO and NFPA 1720

    I am looking for info on ISO and NFPA 1720. I volunteer on a dept that has contracted medics that are trying to run the show and we want to put a stop to it. Right now they drop an ambo and run 2 on each engine and 2 on a truck leaving the town unprotected EMS wise. All I have read on 1720 mirrors 1710 in the fact of 15 personnel on scene within a time frame 90 percent of the time. It is also up to the department to meet the response goals of the department based on life hazard. As for ISO it is vague on what type of equipment or personnel is needed on an initial alarm, AFA or otherwise. If anyone has some good info please let me know.

    Thanks

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    you could drop the contract. Or write and sop/sog on who can staff what like say medics firts priority is the ambulance and may not jump to an engine or truck until the ambulance is out the door. You could also (dempending on what the contract now says) rewrite the contract saying they may not leave the ambulance unattended.

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    You guys at should be lucky to have them. While you guys are out and about at Ali Babas they are the ones running your calls. Show up more and take pride in your department and maybe you wont have to worry about the "full timers" running the show. In the mean time Chris worry about yourself and your buddies. Once you know how to conduct yourselves on calls and act prefessional then you can worry about who is in charge. Maybe start with a power line class and go from there. Look forward to hearing from you Im sure i will. Let the crying begin.

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    Thumbs down Take your fight elsewhere

    limelieu,
    Take your backstabbing elsewhere. We don't alow your kind of posts on the Illinois forums. We didn't become the hands down most popular of the state forums by allowing personal attacks on another member. It is people like you that have ruined the once mighty Firehouse forums. You have been reported to the administrators.
    Last edited by pcfdcap1; 05-07-2008 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Adding additional
    Every silver lining's got a touch of grey...I wiilll get by....


    Proud to be IACOJ Flatlander Division

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    limelieu,
    I wish I had read this earlier so that I could have beat cap (now AC) to the punch. This is the only forum I read on Firehouse any more because of remarks like yours. If you can't offer something constructive without the smart remarks, keep it to yourself. We in Illinois are better than this.

    I see you've made one post. Hopefully it'll be your last here.
    Jack Boczek, Chief
    Ashley Community Fire Protection District

    FLATLANDERS FOREVER!

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    Quote Originally Posted by limelieu View Post
    You guys at should be lucky to have them. While you guys are out and about at Ali Babas they are the ones running your calls. Show up more and take pride in your department and maybe you wont have to worry about the "full timers" running the show. In the mean time Chris worry about yourself and your buddies. Once you know how to conduct yourselves on calls and act prefessional then you can worry about who is in charge. Maybe start with a power line class and go from there. Look forward to hearing from you Im sure i will. Let the crying begin.
    You wouldn't happen to be one of the CONTRACT medics taking over this guys department would ya?

    What do you mean take pride in your department? It sounds to me like this
    guy is only missing runs because the irresponsible medics are running calls with improperly staffed rigs. I believe he is tryiong to help his department by finding answers to fix the problem. Since we havn't heard from him I hope the problem is fixed.

    "Once you know how to conduct yourselves on calls and act prefessional then you can worry about who is in charge." Who are you to judge this man and his department's conduct? Do you know the department, or how they run calls?

    Why don't you go crawl in a hole and stay there like a good mole.

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    Ok, now im not picking fights with everybody. To answer some questions no im not with that department but I do know how they run. Yes there are contract guys there that would love to be district guys but the department wont go that direction. As for there running order the have 2 stations 4 personnel at each for fire calls the run 2 in the engine at station 1 and 2 in the ambulance. When they get to the scene the 2 from the ambulance jump to the engine. station 2 has all 4 personel all take the tower out to the call. An ambulance is also called for by a neighboring department automaticly for fire calls. So as for manning they are doing ok. At that point the P.O.C. come down and take whatever else is needed. All contract guys are FF II and EMS so they are well within there means to go to such calls. You also have to be an Engineer to get hire on the contract because they expect you to drive the apparatus. As for taking over, they try to work with the poc but only get negetive feed back from them. The fulltime guys want nothing more then to work with the poc. Out of the 24 fulltimers at least 6 to 8 are past poc members so they started there and continued there career there. Now I know everybody hates me right now but the get rid of the fulltimers at this department thing gets old. We want to work with them but the never show up unless its a good MVC or a fire. So for all the other basic AFA and little calls like that its john wayne time. They tried a part time program and the poc didnt sign up they tried a rotation of having certin members on call and the boycotted. They try really hard to work together but the poc care more about getting rid of them then working with them.

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    For the three people that replied out the state of Illinois I appologize to you. I wish you could see what those "contract" guys go through to make that Department look like a polished gem. They all would do anything for that department to make it look like the best in the state. They are there 24 hours a day serving and protecting the people of that town. All they ever get though from the poc are these plots to get rid of them. The poc's dont even have the ambulance tones in there pagers because they were being bothered at night for calls they didnt need to worry about. Thays why they have two separate tones fire and ems. Does that sound like a department that is worried about being over thrown buy fulltimers????? I leave you with this, all great departments have to part ways with the good old boys some day to move on and progress. You see it more and more everyday the move to more fulltime employees. Not saying the poc should go but they need to see the future. The town they live in is growing at a scarey rate, they need the people that want to work there to staff the station and respond. The people that are the fulltimers need the poc's to back them up and work with them not against them. Hope yo usee that im not some dick out to bash people, I truly love that department and want nothing but the best for it. When i was there it was a awesome place to be. I want nothing but the best for them and want them to grow and succeed. Going back to all poc isnt the answer. That is what upset me about the original entry here. If its a union thing they all would love the opp to test for that department and become union and end their careers there. trust me I wished that everyday I was there, until I had to leave to go get that dream.

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    What town are you talking about? If you don't mind me asking? And before I comment further I would like to hear a resopnse from the original poster.

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    First off, I want to welcome Limelieu to the forum. I see in his vast years of experience he finally found the forum section.


    I want to start off by saying this forum isn't about getting rid of people because they are contract or not. If I wanted that, I would give up my Volly status and rally the Union drum and use the arbitration that sits number one with the AFFI and state arbitrators for removing contracted medics from firehouses. Oh that's right I haven't done that once to you, have I LimeLieu? So let's say what it's really about, you didn't want to be stuck to an ambulance.

    As for having pride and acting professional. "Once you know how to conduct yourselves on calls and act prefessional then you can worry about who is in charge". Sorry to inform you that "prefessional" isn't given to you by filling out the application, it is earned, volly or paid. It is about providing the best service possible not getting all excited because you can take 2 engines, 1 truck and and ambulance with 8 people and show up on a scene and can't accomplish what 2 properly staffed vehicles could. Professionalism also isn't neglecting the primary role of your "Full-Time" JOB. That is EMS. If the public knew that you dropped an ambulance on all fire calls, AFA's included they'd scream and shout. You say that we can call mutual aid, Unfortunately, in your Professional world that wouldn't fly. The towns to the south and southwest can't get into areas of the district within 8 minutes, per NFPA 1710, and the town to the North is busier that all 3 towns combined good luck getting them available. See the problem with the "Full Time Guys" is they don't realize the jeopardy they are putting the residents at. I was personally told EMS calls don't happen during fire calls by one of the "Officers", I'd beg to differ.

    See what LimeLieu fails to mention is I offered up a solution, make the front line engines ALS that way, care can be given if an ambulance isn't available. The idea was dropped like a hot potato, not by the chief but the Contract Coordinator. So who is professional now???. I also brought up that fact that certain individuals hide behind ISO to justify running a Truck, Engine, Engine and a Ambulance with 8 people on AFA's, which no MA ambulance is called for , and reported fires. They state it helps points. WRONG, it actually hurts them. Call ISO and ask for Tom Geibel, he'll be more than happy to explain this to you Limelieu.


    I don't need to justify my pride and professionalism to you so I'll let that be. And as for having a beer at the corner, I'll be sure to buy you one because I'm sure you'll be in again.

    As for the town it is at the crossroads of America.
    Last edited by SectorB; 06-18-2008 at 10:39 PM.

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    FF2426,

    Limelieu is correct in the fact of volunteers only coming down for a wreck or fire. That is because they'd hold everybody except the "Full-time" crews in quarters. So what do you think happened to morale??

    As for resolving the problem, I got the info I was looking for and gave it to the appropriate people. We'll see what happens, if not I hear a drumming sound. LOL!
    Last edited by SectorB; 05-17-2008 at 01:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SectorB View Post
    FF2426,

    Limelieu is correct in the fact of volunteers only coming down for a wreck or fire. That is because they'd hold everybody except the "Full-time" crews in quarters. So what do you think happened to morale??

    As for resolving the problem, I got the info I was looking for and gave it to the appropriate people. We'll see what happens, if not I hear a drumming sound. LOL!
    I really hope you guys figure your stuff out. SectorB Could you pm me with what you got going on? We have had a falling off of staffing for medicals as well and are starting to get it turned around. I might be able to help a little more.

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    Thank you for the welcome sector b. I hope that "druming sound" we might be hearing is the sounds of the union helping out. Like I said there isnt anybody out there that wouldnt want to be part of the IAFF there. As for everything else you had mentioned above from the responce guidelines to the holding the poc's up on calls, you have to realize that everything we do is handed down to us. The Chief is the one that told us how to run things. He wrote an SOG on how to respond to calls and the man power. If there ever was a poc rider or happened to be a poc down at the station they were always brought with. Otherwise it's get to the call per 2201. He also told us to hold up the pocs if not needed so we can keep personel in quarters in case of another call. As you know we have seen that happen, one crew is out on the call and the pocs have to go to a call while waiting at the station. As for the ambulance thing I dont know what to tell you, they hire us as FFII EMT's that know how to drive fire apparatus for a reason, that is to go on fire calls. I dont know what to do, if your house is burning and your family is trapped you dont want 4 ambulances showing up lobbing saline bombs into the window, and at 11 am on a tuesday morning that is what you would get because all the poc's work jobs and turnout would be low. Thats just a fact, not trying to knock anybody. Thats why there is MABAS, if one town is busy then we go to another someone has to have an ambulane. The two towns to the south are the ones we call the most and they can usually provide als ambulances to us pretty easy. If you want to talk to someone talk to someone from frankfort. They just had there transition not to long ago. They went from pocs to contract and pocs, to union, contract, and pocs, to unoin and contract. So see how they did it. I hear its not a bad place to work at. Well always nice to visit and chat but got to go. Hope everybody has a nice rest of there sunday, keep me informed on those union drums sounding. Im sure someone as involved in the union like yourself sector b carries a big stick so pound it loud and take care of your brothers protecting your town.

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