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  1. #1
    Forum Member Rescue2947's Avatar
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    Default Commercial Fire Strategy 1

    In this scenario, lets use what is available to your department, apparatus and manpower wise. Describe what units would arrive, how fast they would get there since most of us have a walgreens in our city's or towns. Explain how you would tackle this fire, and the resources that you would need.

    This fire is reported at 8:45 PM by a passer by that walgreens is on fire. When pulling on scene you find this:



    Initial reports state there maybe sombody inside in the stock room in the back of the building.
    Pere Marquette Fire Department
    "First in Last Out Crew"
    Engine 2911


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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue2947 View Post
    In this scenario, lets use what is available to your department, apparatus and manpower wise. Describe what units would arrive, how fast they would get there since most of us have a walgreens in our city's or towns. Explain how you would tackle this fire, and the resources that you would need.

    This fire is reported at 8:45 PM by a passer by that walgreens is on fire. When pulling on scene you find this:



    Initial reports state there maybe sombody inside in the stock room in the back of the building.
    Thanks for putting these up. I let someone else go first.

  3. #3
    Forum Member Rescue2947's Avatar
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    I'll go first then and get it started since I was more of a listener the first one and thanks for the kind words Geinandputitout.

    In our township this would be a dual response, and us and the city would get a full response. Our first engine out normally would be there with in 5 min's, second unit another engine would arrive within 7. Everything else, Pumper tanker and 75' Quint would be there all under 10 min's. With mutual aid from the city they could bring up to 3 engines, Rescue, 100' Truck and Command Center. Along with more if needed from other mutual aid (pretty much unlimited)

    With that being said First Engine which would have 2 men would be on scene and report a working fire, reporting to dispatch to "continue mutual aid". First engine would do a initial size up and pack up for 2nd Due engine, at this time they would stretch lines 1"3/4 to the front door and hit as much from out side as possible without pushing the fire back into the building until 2nd due arrives.

    As 2nd Due arrives with 3 more FF's, engine 2 would preform search while engine 1 goes inside to knock down extention. Pumper Tanker arriving on scene with 2 ff's would grab closest hydrant and supply engine one. When thats complete they would pull a back up line and knock down the car fire out front.

    75' Quint 4 ff's arriving on scene, 2 ff's would ladder up to roof to check for extensions and vent if nessesary. The other 2 ff's would back up where ever needed. Mutual aid would then arrive and help with what ever is nessesary, to complete the job.
    Last edited by Rescue2947; 04-21-2008 at 03:44 PM.
    Pere Marquette Fire Department
    "First in Last Out Crew"
    Engine 2911

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    reduced assignment..

    first due engine knocks car with 1 3/4 line
    first due truck checks for extension into structure, open up a window and place a smoke ejector into it and place a PPV at the front entrance as well.
    second due engine stands-by
    Last edited by somebody509; 04-21-2008 at 04:22 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Hmm

    Looks a lot like a car next to a building. In my area this would go out as a downgrade/ tactical box with 2 engines, 1 truck and a chief.

    First Engine: Lay out from hydrant and initiate an attack on the car

    1st Truck: First would enter the building and check for extension into building with thermal imagers if available, and removing ceiling tiles if equiped with a drop ceiling. If there was a significant smoke condition inside, one or two members would proceed to the roof to make sure that it was an air handling unit that was brining air in from the atmosphere, and not some involvement of the roof.

    2nd Engine: Either standby with the water supply for first engine if they were to need it and they may extend a line off the first engine into the store or roof if any further involvement was found.

    Chief: Command.

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    Also, for the record...Around here we have CVS, not Walgreens.
    Last edited by somebody509; 04-21-2008 at 04:20 PM.

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    put the car fire out, since that all it looks like.

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    1st engine in pulls an 1 3/4 line, officer can stick his head in the door to determine if the fire has extended into the building at all. If not then begin attack on the building and car.

    1st "rescue" would arrive to the front and begin search with the truck company and attempt to make the rescue.

    1st truck would report to the rear of the building and start opening up. Inside team would search the rear stock room. Exterior team would secure utilities , make the roof, and work thier way to the fire side to make to check for fire extension.

    2nd engine to foward lay a line and pull a second line inside to work potential fire inside the building.

  9. #9
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Very odd kind of looking fire... I would think a vehicle into the building or perhaps a gas service fire??

    Initial would be (in order of response):
    Chief Officers 1-3 depending on availablility
    CAFS Engine
    Aerial
    Squad (engine w/rescue tools)
    Engine
    1 tender (3000 gal)

    A working fire (if this is more than a car fire) would bring:
    Additional chief officers (1-3)
    Engine
    Tower
    Rescue
    Mutual Aid FAST
    Mutual Aid Engine


    This almost certainly looks like there is extension to the structure and while I would normally advocate a 2 1/2 inch line for a commercial property, I'd probably order the 1 3/4 CAFS be used. This doesn't look like a difficult fire to knock down, however, overhaul will be critical.

    2 lines (1 3/4), 1 to the interior, 1 to the exterior. I suspect the exterior line will extinguish the majority of this fire and interior will be for overhaul.

    Aerial to the roof to check for extension. These buildings have lots of voids and dead areas.

    Searches and secure the utilities asap.

    EDIT: I just noticed the car in that large volume of fire! This furthers my belief that this is mostly an exterior fire. Exterior line to address car fire. I'd probably not order a full working fire response, but would just ask for an additional engine co.
    Last edited by ChiefKN; 04-21-2008 at 05:04 PM.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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  10. #10
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    These are great, and i've used this type of software to run a strategy/tactics drill for the guys when i was an officer.

    Lots of fun and a great way to make some critical points.

    Thanks!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LeatherHed4Life View Post
    1st engine in pulls an 1 3/4 line, officer can stick his head in the door to determine if the fire has extended into the building at all. If not then begin attack on the building and car.

    1st "rescue" would arrive to the front and begin search with the truck company and attempt to make the rescue.

    1st truck would report to the rear of the building and start opening up. Inside team would search the rear stock room. Exterior team would secure utilities , make the roof, and work thier way to the fire side to make to check for fire extension.

    2nd engine to foward lay a line and pull a second line inside to work potential fire inside the building.
    Going to the rear is a priority. Around here, at 8:45 PM that store is likely to have been open. I would have a team force every exterior door they could find. If persons unfamiliar with the occupancy fled to the rear, you may find a stack of bodies at the exits.
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Going to the rear is a priority. Around here, at 8:45 PM that store is likely to have been open. I would have a team force every exterior door they could find. If persons unfamiliar with the occupancy fled to the rear, you may find a stack of bodies at the exits.

    would you say it would be more beneficial for the "Rescue" to report to the rear of the building with the ladder truck?

  13. #13
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    We don't have a Walgreen's in our town so we wouldn't respond to it if it was involved in a fire. We do, however, have a Walgreen's down one of our major roads a few towns so we may/may not be called for coverage of other fire company's in our area or maybe even mutual aid because we have special units in our company (F.A.S.T./R.I.T. Team, Technical Rescue Unit, etc.).

    Although we don't have a Walgreen's, we do have similar stores such as Rite Aid that are in our town and that would require just about the same type of response.

    Since it was reported at night, our township's fire companies would have a peak in manpower so that wouldn't be an issue with us. We have three companies in our town with mutual aid agreements with several bordering towns to assist. Our three companies consist of 5 stations with enough apparatus to deal with this type of response.

    Our company is automatic mutual aid for this type of response along with one other company so our entire township's fire department would be working a fully involved fire at this type of building. Since we are the mutual aid for this, we wouldn't be the IC so we would normally establish water supply (hook up to a hydrant, run whatever hose is requested, etc.) as well as assist with search & rescue, interior/exterior fire attacks, and so on.

    Our company is our township's F.A.S.T./R.I.T. Team so our 2nd/3rd due truck would most likely be our Technical Rescue Unit depending on if our Pumper/Tender(Tanker) rolled second or third. That would be one of our main duties to setup a F.A.S.T. Team.

    As for the other duties, it would really depend on what company's apparatus arrived first and what kind of manpower and situation they would be dealing with at the time of arrival that would dictate our next move.
    Pinewald Pioneer Vol. Fire Co. No. 1 Sta. 20
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  14. #14
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Wake up from dream, admire erection, remind myself bricks don't burn like that, go back to sleep.

    Not trying to be critical, but unrealistic scenario. The car fire would not extend to the outside of a bricked building like that and the interior could not have that much fire venting from that location with absolutely no smoke visible through any of the windows.
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  15. #15
    Forum Member Dave1983's Avatar
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    Easy enough...We have one that looks just like this one (except for the bricks).

    1st alarm gets 3 engines, a truck (quint) a squad (heavy rescue) and a DC. All rigs have a minimum of 3 (except the DC).

    First due engine and DC from the same station are about 3 1/2 minutes away, the truck a few seconds behind, the next two engines about 60 seconds after the truck. The squad about 4 minutes later.

    First engine takes an 1 3/4" (with foam) for fire attack on the car.

    The truck starts a search inside, checking for extension.

    2nd engine forward lays 5" LDH to the first engine (dry line for now) then pulls second line off into the store.

    3rd engine takes the sprinkler FDC then is RIT.

    DC does a 360, takes IC.

    Squad drops off their PPV fan at the front (unless one is already in place), then heads around back to take utilities and open a door for PPV vent if needed.

    A 4th engine would have been rolled on confirmed fire involving a commercial.
    Last edited by Dave1983; 04-21-2008 at 06:53 PM.
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    Since we have a Walgreens that looks exactly like that one in Engine 3's district...


    Roll the 1st alarm assignment (2 Engines, 1 Ladder, 1 Rescue and the Deputy) as a precaution. You can always send the troops back if they are not needed.

    Ours is sprinklered, with the FD connection at the C/D corner.

    First due engine attacks the car fire.

    Second due enigne, if it is a structure fire, would tag the hydrant and drop a 4" feeder into the FDC.

    Rescue personnel would enter the rear and ensure that everyone was out

    Ladder would be staged in the parklng lot, its personnel would be asssigned as the IC desires.
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  17. #17
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Going to the rear is a priority. Around here, at 8:45 PM that store is likely to have been open. I would have a team force every exterior door they could find. If persons unfamiliar with the occupancy fled to the rear, you may find a stack of bodies at the exits.
    I was just about to state this, but the exits are more than likely equipped with panic hardware and the building doesn't look all that involved in the interior.

    That said, it must be confirmed.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

  18. #18
    Forum Member Rescue2947's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiefKN View Post
    These are great, and i've used this type of software to run a strategy/tactics drill for the guys when i was an officer.

    Lots of fun and a great way to make some critical points.

    Thanks!

    Thanks chiefKN and many more to come, this is done with photoshop and made by hand. There will be alot harder ones to come just warming people up to my presents.. Carry on...
    Pere Marquette Fire Department
    "First in Last Out Crew"
    Engine 2911

  19. #19
    Forum Member Rescue2947's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Going to the rear is a priority. Around here, at 8:45 PM that store is likely to have been open. I would have a team force every exterior door they could find. If persons unfamiliar with the occupancy fled to the rear, you may find a stack of bodies at the exits.

    Very good point George, I find that people are finding this to be just a car and nothing more.... With the flames in the places they are there has to be extention right?
    Pere Marquette Fire Department
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    Engine 2911

  20. #20
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rescue2947 View Post
    Very good point George, I find that people are finding this to be just a car and nothing more.... With the flames in the places they are there has to be extention right?
    I think the problem is that because you are making them in Photoshop, you are putting flames in places where they really shouldn't/wouldn't be. A car would not extend to a brick veneer building in the manor you have depicted.

    I still give you an "E" for effort.
    RK
    cell #901-494-9437

    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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