Ohio Apparatus Crash- 2 Civilians Dead, 4 FF's Injured

[Catch22]

Look I agree that operators should not drive a truck like their car but I think you missed the point of what I was saying, and yes I did read that article as I get that newspaper delivered to my house daily. All I am saying is they found her speed to be acceptable :Forchione said there is “credible evidence” that Ronald Anderson, 72, pulled into the path of the truck.
“There’s no question the fire truck was operating with its lights and sirens on,” Forchione said. “The accident reconstruction evidence found the (truck’s) speed to be reasonable when responding to an accident.”
Forchione also confirmed that Anderson had hearing problems

I hope to God you don't think that just because Forchione's determination found insufficient evidence for criminal action does not mean there was no wrong doing in this incident. I don't know about Ohio, but most states have this statement in their laws that reads "due regard for the safety of the public." "Due Regard" in my mind is not blowing a four-way at 40-45 mph.

At the same time, I learned (and teach) if you hit a car, you had better be able to prove that they saw and heard you. This means making eye contact with every vehicle at an intersection. I also teach the worst thing to do is to blow an intersection right after another emergency vehicle does. Most people will relax and procede after the first one blows it.

I will also apologize if I came on a bit hard. I'm personnally sick of people that think because they have a light and siren going that they're entitled to exceed the speed limit and blow red lights. A new guy on my department learned my feelings on this when he asked me the other day "how fast can we go when we're running emergency."

I may not agree with that and you may not but the people who matter do. As for your comment about not feeling for the women driving the truck come on bro thats going to far. Its called an accident for a reason.

I believe 1oldtimer highlighted the part of the post you missed. Reread it and let me know where I said I didn't feel for her. She killed her cousin and I'm sure she realizes now how and why and will question that for the rest of her life. What sickens me is that I have yet to read anything saying that the chief has changed their procedures/policies.

I have read page after page of criticism of Chief Thomas after his reluctance to change things after 9 of his firefighters were killed. While tragic, at least these 9 knew the danger. What danger did the man and boy in this situation know about when they started through the intersection? Yet there's only a few of us that are critical of this department's actions and procedures. And God help us all; Nozz and I are in aggreeance on this one.

By the way, thanks for the additional info 1oldtimer. I'm working this into a case study for my EVOC class thats coming up for my vollie department as well as into the EVOC portion of my career department's driver's academy. Maybe we can save a few lives through prevention in those towns.

[ScareCrow57]

While there was no criminal intent proven, she still blew the intersection with excessive speed, and ended up striking an old man and a little boy, killing them, then dragging their vehicle the length of a football field. I don't know what their policies/SOG's/SOP's are at this department, but if they allow for this type of behavior, they need to be addressed. Youtube is chock full of videos demonstrating such recklessness.
Slow the **** down. This man and his grandson died, just so she could get the truck to a car fire a few seconds quicker.

A lot of people are charged with vehicular manslaughter even though there was no criminal intent. Just a thought

Matter of fact - look at the case of Hulk Hogans kid. Clearly this kid did not intend to hurt his friend.

[1OLDTIMER]

By the way, thanks for the additional info 1oldtimer. I'm working this into a case study for my EVOC class thats coming up for my vollie department as well as into the EVOC portion of my career department's driver's academy. Maybe we can save a few lives through prevention in those towns.

Maybe these aerial images will help............

[BryanLoader]

It looks from the photo that there is a hedge or at least tree growth on the corner which may have obscured both drivers from seeing each other.

Maybe this aerial image will help............

[1OLDTIMER]

It looks from the photo that there is a hedge or at least tree growth on the corner which may have obscured both drivers from seeing each other.

No...the 'hedge or tree growth' is on the OPPOSITE corner. The fire truck was coming from LEFT TO RIGHT. Mr. Anderson entered the intersection (from the street) BOTTOM UP...in relation to the aerial photo. His vehicle was pushed 300+ft. on the 'opposite side' of the street.

[MaryJane69]

That's awful! What a terrible thing to happen. The driver must be beside herself. I think fire engines are the coolest thing ever! But this shows how dangerous they can be. She must really have been putting her foot down to have travelled that far after the impact. Maybe she was too shocked to apply the brakes? I'm glad to hear no charges will be filed against her. I just hope she recovers alright from that accident. Her and the other injured guys.

[1OLDTIMER]

Update on this May 2008 accident:

Posted Sep 23, 2009 @ 05:26 PM

MASSILLON, Ohio

Reckless driving by a city firefighter caused a crash last year that killed a man and his stepgrandson, claims a wrongful-death lawsuit filed in Stark County Common Pleas Court.

The city, firefighter Susan Toles and her supervisor, Capt. Rick Annen, are named as defendants in the lawsuit, which seeks more than $25,000 in damages. The case is assigned to Judge Charles E. Brown Jr.

As the late Paul Harvey would have said, "this is the rest of the story".

http://www.cantonrep.com/crime/x5765...-van-collision

[GTRider245]

Very interesting...and only $25,000 saught?

[Rescue101]

I've been interested in the various responses on"only a car fire". Having been to a good many car fires in my career,there are a few memorable ones. "Bridgton Fire respond to xyz ave. for a vehicle fire".The KEY piece of information that was NOT recieved wac that the "vehicle"was FULLY involved................IN AN ATTACHED GARAGE! That will make life a little more interesting. While what I see here leaves me with questions,I think I'll wait for the report to come out before making any hard decisions.I'm just thankful it wasn't my jurisdiction nor rig.Best wishes and speedy recovery to those involved. T.C.

[ScareCrow57]

I've been interested in the various responses on"only a car fire". Having been to a good many car fires in my career,there are a few memorable ones. "Bridgton Fire respond to xyz ave. for a vehicle fire".The KEY piece of information that was NOT recieved wac that the "vehicle"was FULLY involved................IN AN ATTACHED GARAGE! That will make life a little more interesting. While what I see here leaves me with questions,I think I'll wait for the report to come out before making any hard decisions.I'm just thankful it wasn't my jurisdiction nor rig.Best wishes and speedy recovery to those involved. T.C.

Well this incident occurred a year ago, the reports are there.

I am surprised that the loss of two lives s only $25,000. Seems like there are a couple of zeroes missing.

We have all had those incidents were the dispatch call was close but left out a few details. We have had a couple of chimney fires that wee actually structure fires.

[ChiefKN]

From the article:

State troopers and then-Canton Prosecutor Frank Forchione investigated the crash and said there wasn’t enough evidence to charge Toles with a crime.

At the time, the prosecutor said there was “credible evidence” that Anderson drove in front of the engine, which had its lights and sirens activated, and was operating at reasonable speeds for an emergency.

Sounds like they are looking for a settlement, that's why the $$ are so low, I'm betting.

Cheaper to just pay 25k then to see it to court.

[GregMasters]

[QUOTE=ScareCrow57;1098884]I am surprised that the loss of two lives s only $25,000. Seems like there are a couple of zeroes missing.
QUOTE]

The article doesn't say anything about them seeking "only" $25,000. It says that they are seeking "at least" $25,000. There is a big difference. When the suit is filed, the only important thing is that they are seeking "more than" $25,000, because it places the suit in circuit court, rather than district court (or whatever the equivalent level of court is in that particular state). The actual amount they ask for at trial (if it gets that far) will be far higher.