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  1. #1
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    Default What were they thinking?

    Mind has been changed and don't want to be seen as a wacko.
    Last edited by rcgregor; 05-08-2008 at 04:23 PM. Reason: They changed my mind and I dont want to come off as a basher.


  2. #2
    Forum Member MemphisE34a's Avatar
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    Yeah!! What could those incompetent bastards be thinking? Why in the world would they dare to do the job they are supposed to until they determined it was no longer safe and go defensive.

    These guys are giving all the armchair quarterbacking firefighters a bad name trying to save people's property. I bet they didn't think of that. Maybe they will try harder to stay at the curb and watch stuff burn up next time.

    Bastards, real bastards.
    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 05-07-2008 at 03:41 PM.
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    Management is making sure things are done right. Leadership is doing the right thing. The fire service needs alot more leaders and a lot less managers.

    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

  3. #3
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    How about: "What's the ****ing building industry thinking using that **** as insulation?"

    That's the million****ingdollar question.

  4. #4
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    I'm with you 100% johnny46

    I hate that ****** type of insulation. My department has had rekindles before because of this crap and it makes us look bad but thats just part of life I guess.
    MCFD Station 1- "The Second-Due Saviors."
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  5. #5
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    Default

    ______________
    Last edited by rcgregor; 05-08-2008 at 04:27 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnny46 View Post
    How about: "What's the ****ing building industry thinking using that **** as insulation?"

    That's the million****ingdollar question.
    Also a good question.

  7. #7
    Forum Member johnny46's Avatar
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    I've made more than one house with this crap and even with good overhaul, you can have a rekindle. The only option is to take it ALL out. That's ridiculous. We made a small fire--hardly anything in a corner of the attic from wiring. The next shift made a fire on the opposite end in the attic--eight hours after our fire.

    I've made one small rekindle from another shift due to this insulation. They'd pulled ceiling in what is normally an acceptable manner. Not long after, we made a kitchen fire and this crap was in the attic and we played hell dealing with it. It didn't burn again.

    I'm perfectly willing to accept that these guys did a regular overhaul job and this stuff bit them in the butt. I say outlaw this ****, just like wood shingles.

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    __________
    Last edited by rcgregor; 05-08-2008 at 04:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcgregor View Post
    You got me all wrong, I want to know where the effective salvage & overhaul was in the first place? If you read they were called back 3 times. From what I could tell the structure was heavily involved at the 3rd call back, and from overhaul the structual support was probably exposed, so why go interior on that situation? I don't mean to sound like blaming them for not doing their job, which I'm sure individual firefighters busted their arses on this fire. I would like discuss where things possibly went wrong in this so in future situations this can be prevented. Would you go interior on a heavily involved structure which has already been exposed to fire and water, and with protections such as dry wall having been possibly removed by overhaul for a 3rd time, with no percieved life safety issue?
    I'm sorry. I'm confused.

    I have to ask, what were they thinking going interior on this type of operation? Risking lives for property?
    Where was effective overhaul (and salvage)?
    You got me all wrong, I want to know where the effective salvage & overhaul was in the first place?
    Exactly how does "effective overhaul and salvage" take place unless you "go interior"? Seems like you are whining out of both sides of your mouth.

    I don't mean to sound like blaming them for not doing their job
    Yes you did.

    And why would they have turned control of the building back to the owner so soon?
    Because if they believed the fire was out, it is the building owner's responsibility to secure it. It is also the building owner's responsibility to get his insurance co. in there to start the claims process. Is the FD supposed to park outside the building for days "just in case"?

    Those are my "thougts".
    PROUD, HONORED AND HUMBLED RECIPIENT OF THE PURPLE HYDRANT AWARD - 10/2007.

  10. #10
    Forum Member Bones42's Avatar
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    The insulation was made up of a wood fiber
    Honestly can't say I have ever run into this...

    Who makes this? Is it common all over or just in areas?
    "This thread is being closed as it is off-topic and not related to the fire industry." - Isn't that what the Off Duty forum was for?

  11. #11
    Forum Member jlcooke3's Avatar
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    I believe its cellulose insulation. Cellulose insulation is typically recycled newspaper that has been "treated" in a fire retardant. It is used nationwide and is gaining popularity due to it being a "green" product, cost, and its coverage ability.

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    __________
    Last edited by rcgregor; 05-08-2008 at 04:28 PM.

  13. #13
    MembersZone Subscriber EFD840's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcgregor View Post
    I understand going in the first two times but the third time when it was "engulfed" as the article states? I guess its a you had to be there type deal. I am thinking that after the second flare up and overhaul that there was a potential for unlimited fire spread due to ripping out walls and pulling ceiling? Or am I way off here? I'm not trying to be whiny I am trying to do a mini-case study to think of ways to do the job and improve safety.
    A few random thoughts...

    What part of the operation can you say was unsafe based on this story?

    Was it unsafe because a reporter says it was "engulfed?" Ever seen a headline Fire engulfs local home only to find out it was a room an contents? Ever responded to a reported 'fully involved' only to find that the only real damage was to the evening meal?

    Was it unsafe because the porch fell? Better, but still nowhere near enough info. Did it share a common attic space or was it just a vanity attachment. Did it fall because of fire in the attic or weakened supports? Likewise, just because the three guys left via ladder in no way indicates that they were in immediate peril. It could have been simply that the crap from the porch blocked that door and the ladder was the nearest alternate exit.

    Sorry, but I think you're way off. The whole thing sounds like guys trying to do the job.

  14. #14
    MembersZone Subscriber JohnVBFD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcgregor View Post
    I understand going in the first two times but the third time when it was "engulfed" as the article states? I guess its a you had to be there type deal. I am thinking that after the second flare up and overhaul that there was a potential for unlimited fire spread due to ripping out walls and pulling ceiling? Or am I way off here? I'm not trying to be whiny I am trying to do a mini-case study to think of ways to do the job and improve safety.
    I think that whether to committ firefighters to interior operations in this instance would be based on building conditions as seen by the Incident Commander.

    What the IC is seeing before his eyes will be different than what is portrayed by the media.

    Not saying you are wrong or right. But until I see what the IC saw through his eyes and how the building was constructed, I will not second guess that IC.
    Co 11
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    Amateurs practice until they get it right; professionals practice until they cannot get it wrong. Which one are you?

    'The fire went out and nobody got hurt' is a poor excuse for a fireground critique.

  15. #15
    Back In Black ChiefKN's Avatar
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    With all the edits...might as well delete this thread.

    cripes!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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