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    Unhappy A Tragic Lesson To Be Learned:

    MASSILLON, OH., May 6, 2008. A man and a child were killed early this morning and four city firefighters were injured when their vehicles collided on Walnut Road SE in a crash that stretched nearly a block.

    Eyewitnesses said the child was thrown from the vehicle when it struck the pole. The fire truck had pushed the van...340ft. after impact...nearly an entire block to 13th Street SE.

    Anderson's distant cousin, Susan Toles, [18 year department vet.] was driving the 1999 E-1 Quint that struck Anderson's van, and was one of four firefighters who suffered minor injuries in the crash. The Quint was the second unit responding to a report of a vehicle fire.

    The firefighter involved in Tuesday’s fatal accident said six months ago that she did not feel qualified to drive the truck that struck and killed a Massillon man and his grandson. Firefighter Susan Toles, 47, signed a document dated Oct. 23, 2007, in which she indicates that she will not “be able to operate this truck in an emergency at this time and will require more training.” It is unclear whether she received more training in the operation of the vehicle since then.

    The Massillon Fire Department’s SOP's for vehicle operations state that; drivers should come to a complete stop at a red light only when directed to do so by a law enforcement officer, at blind intersections, when all lanes of traffic cannot be accounted for, or when encountering a stopped school bus with flashing warning lights. “DRIVE WITH DUE REGARD TO THE SAFETY OF ALL OTHERS shall be paramount at all times,” the guidelines state.

    Many unanswered questions here, and the accident is being investigated by the Ohio State Highway Patrol. However...this tragic accident should be a lesson to be learned by all emergency apparatus drivers when responding "hot," with four OLD standards;

    1. EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED
    2. SEE AND BE SEEN
    3. LEAVE YOURSELF AN OUT
    4. DRIVE WITH DUE REGARD TO THE SAFETY OF ALL OTHERS

    You will be NO assistance [whatsoever] to the person(s) who you are enroute to help, your fellow responders, and/or at the fire scene...IF YOU KILL or INJURE A CIVILIAN or SMASH YOUR VEHICLE ON THE WAY TO THE EMERGENCY.

    photo courtesy of the Canton Repository:
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    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Like you said too many unanswered questions there. Why was a quint responding to a vehicle fire ? Also being the second due apparatus they should of slowed their response if it was just a vehicle fire. Who had to stop at the intersection. Was the driver fully trained to operate the quint. Why wasn't the child restrained in the vehicle,that right there could of been the factor weather or not the child could of survived. Either way it's a tragedy that could of been avoided on both halves.

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    We're over here.
    http://forums.firehouse.com/showthread.php?t=100721
    Don't hang her, the facts haven't came out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wconlon53 View Post
    Like you said too many unanswered questions there. Why was a quint responding to a vehicle fire ? Also being the second due apparatus they should of slowed their response if it was just a vehicle fire. Who had to stop at the intersection. Was the driver fully trained to operate the quint. Why wasn't the child restrained in the vehicle,that right there could of been the factor weather or not the child could of survived. Either way it's a tragedy that could of been avoided on both halves.
    Why was a quint responding? Well in my career FD from 2 stations you get a quint as an engine for fires like this.

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    It has also come out that the driver of the mini van was hearing impaired!!

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    Is the lesson to be learned that old deaf people shouldn't drive in front of fire trucks????
    Or should we not be responding code 3 for nuisance calls in city traffic!

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Or should we not be responding code 3 for nuisance calls in city traffic!
    So, tell me again what a "nuisance" call is?


    Callers are not reliable sources of information, we make the determination of an emergency, after we're on scene.


    Why was a quint responding? Well in my career FD from 2 stations you get a quint as an engine for fires like this.
    The poster must have never heard about St. Louis' way of doing things.

    Many places use quints as an engine, or in an engine capacity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    It has also come out that the driver of the mini van was hearing impaired!!
    What does the driver being deaf (hearing impaired is a very derogatory term) have anything to do with the situation? My wife is deaf and has been all her life and she is an excellent driver. Infact as an EVOC instructor myself, I would say that she is by far a better and definately much MORE attentive driver than most people I know...including civillians and FD Driver/Operators. Most times when we are out driving around town, she spots emergency vehicles with their lights on long before I ever hear them.

    Next time before you make a very prejudiced comment you should probably put a bit more thought into it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Is the lesson to be learned that old deaf people shouldn't drive in front of fire trucks????
    Or should we not be responding code 3 for nuisance calls in city traffic!
    Did you listen to the audio? It was clearly stated by the caller in the audio recording that the car was either inside or next to a structure. i am not sure how an exposure problem is a a "Nuisance" call.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksfireman82 View Post
    What does the driver being deaf (hearing impaired is a very derogatory term) have anything to do with the situation? My wife is deaf and has been all her life and she is an excellent driver. Infact as an EVOC instructor myself, I would say that she is by far a better and definately much MORE attentive driver than most people I know...including civillians and FD Driver/Operators. Most times when we are out driving around town, she spots emergency vehicles with their lights on long before I ever hear them.

    Next time before you make a very prejudiced comment you should probably put a bit more thought into it!
    Really?????

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    Question D/O's DRIVING WITH IMPAIRED HEARING?

    Quote Originally Posted by HEYVERN View Post
    It has also come out that the driver of the mini van was hearing impaired!!
    My comment does not have a direct effect on THIS accident, but I think it is relative to the subject.

    I notice that many of the comments have focused on the "other driver" driving with impaired hearing. I have also noticed that some depts. have their D/O's wearing HEADSETs while driving apparatus. I've been told that this is for HEARING protection and radio communications...thus driving with impaired hearing.

    I do understand the hearing protection argument, however I do not agree that this (brilliant idea) is good for the D/O of emergency vehicles. Many commercial companies SAFETY depts. will NOT permit their drivers to wear ANY TYPE of EAR devices that will BLOCK the ambient sounds...or driving with impairing hearing.

    I also notice that many of the larger depts. D/O's DO NOT use them, i.e., FDNY; Chicago, etc., so I must assume that it is for the same reason(s), not to menion the cords constantly getting tangled and hung-up. If you cannot hear the sounds of OTHER approaching emerg. vehicles, the vehicle's engine, etc., it places the D/O in a very dangerous position. If the Cap. and "others" think that they NEED the headsets so be it, but in my humble opinion...not the D/O...for the SAFETY of his/her crew and the motoring public.

    Every solution breeds a new problem of concern.
    "we will bankrupt ourselves in the vain attempt at absolute security"
    Pres. / General Dwight D. Eisenhower

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    Quote Originally Posted by ksfireman82 View Post
    What does the driver being deaf (hearing impaired is a very derogatory term) have anything to do with the situation? My wife is deaf and has been all her life and she is an excellent driver. Infact as an EVOC instructor myself, I would say that she is by far a better and definately much MORE attentive driver than most people I know...including civillians and FD Driver/Operators. Most times when we are out driving around town, she spots emergency vehicles with their lights on long before I ever hear them.

    Next time before you make a very prejudiced comment you should probably put a bit more thought into it!
    The comment was not to be prejudice at all. It was a simple fact. By the way, I did not get the memo that you wife was the new poster child for the hearing impaired driver!!
    Last edited by HEYVERN; 05-29-2008 at 09:46 AM.

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