1. #1
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    Default Best CPR Breathing Barrier

    Whats the best CPR breathing barrier i can get?
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    None.
    Don't bother with that shiite.
    Do CPR until an equipped vehicle arrives.
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    The one that puts the most plastic between you and the victim as possible

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    The American Heart Assoc. are recomending compression only CPR now for the lay parson. Thats you if you didn't arrive of the responding unit, and if you did show up on the truck you have better tools to use then you mouth

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    Unless its family, or a damn close friend
    DONT DO MOUTH TO MOUTH!!

    I have a BVM that was going to be thrown out at work, because the packaging was broken, so I took it, and threw it in the back of my truck instead.
    It stays in my truck, and I have no intentions of taking it out unless something happens right in front of me.
    Don't be a wacker and carry some micro shield around on your keychain.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Unless its family, or a damn close friend
    DONT DO MOUTH TO MOUTH!!

    I have a BVM that was going to be thrown out at work, because the packaging was broken, so I took it, and threw it in the back of my truck instead.
    It stays in my truck, and I have no intentions of taking it out unless something happens right in front of me.
    Don't be a wacker and carry some micro shield around on your keychain.
    I was going to suggest that just to set someone up to make them look like a whacker, dangit.
    Just know, I chose my own fate. I drove by the fork in the road and went straight.

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    We can still tell the kid to get an intubation kit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLSboy View Post
    Unless its family, or a damn close friend
    DONT DO MOUTH TO MOUTH!!
    I disagree. Not doing CPR would make me feel irresponsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by elswappo View Post
    The American Heart Assoc. are recomending compression only CPR now for the lay parson. Thats you if you didn't arrive of the responding unit, and if you did show up on the truck you have better tools to use then you mouth
    Remember, do what you are trained to do or you are NOT protected by Good Samaritan laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    I disagree. Not doing CPR would make me feel irresponsible.
    Remember looking out for ourselves is our first priority....If you're not sure what nasties the down person may be carrying....just do compressions. Even doing compressions will cause some air exchange as discovered in CCR studies. I teach AHA CPR and advise my classes if they aren't comfortable putting the lip lock on a person, just do compressions...and CCR studies are showing that compressions are the most valuable part of CPR anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    Remember, do what you are trained to do or you are NOT protected by Good Samaritan laws.
    This may vary from state to state, but in Wisconsin, even as a trained responder you are protected by good samaritan laws when you are not acting/responding as a part of your EMS/Rescue service. But you are right, you should act within your scope of training no matter what, it is in everyone's best interest, especially the patient's.
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    I wouldn't. I didn't put them in the position that they are in.
    I damn sure am not going to put myself in a position that would expose me to bodily fluids....and guess what?
    Doing mouth to mouth IS an exposure. Have you learned about gastric distention yet? Have you ever done mouth to mouth on a person, then have them vomit in our mouth?

    CCR is a very effective tool, in fact, in some areas, CCR is more effective then CPR.

    Any CPR class you take will inform you that doing just compressions is effective, should you not have a barrier unavailable.
    But hey, its your life, if you want to get exposed to God knows what, knock yourself out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    Remember, do what you are trained to do or you are NOT protected by Good Samaritan laws.
    First - you are protected so long as you do not act in a grossly negilent way. This varies somewhat state to state but I would argue that mouth to mouth with NO barriers is grossly negligent. Its up to you to decide if compressions only is better than watching on the sidelines.

    You do what you can with what you have. If you have nothing, compressions is likely all you can do which is a damn site better than nothing. Once the truck gets there, then you have tools to work with.

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    I don't believe the OP is concerned about not having nothing with him. He asked what the best barrier device is.
    I personally do not find it wackerish if someone has a microshield on their key chain. I would be more than happy if someone pulled out a microshield in an attempt to save my life if I went down.

    In response to the original question, I have a pocket mask I got in EMT class in the door of my car. Hopefully I'll never use it. I like the pocket mask though, because it can hold a lot more vomit than a thin sheet of plastic.

    Also, in response to AHA teaching compression only CPR... that is for a witnessed arrest. That and if you don't feel comfortable with mouth to mouth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccfdblehman View Post
    Also, in response to AHA teaching compression only CPR... that is for a witnessed arrest. That and if you don't feel comfortable with mouth to mouth.
    Just to clarify, I never said AHA teaches compression only CPR for all situations, it is simply a recomendation I make to all my classes for the very reasons you gave above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccfdblehman View Post
    I don't believe the OP is concerned about not having nothing with him. He asked what the best barrier device is.
    I personally do not find it wackerish if someone has a microshield on their key chain. I would be more than happy if someone pulled out a microshield in an attempt to save my life if I went down.

    In response to the original question, I have a pocket mask I got in EMT class in the door of my car. Hopefully I'll never use it. I like the pocket mask though, because it can hold a lot more vomit than a thin sheet of plastic.

    Also, in response to AHA teaching compression only CPR... that is for a witnessed arrest. That and if you don't feel comfortable with mouth to mouth.
    Yeah, I never meant not to say to do CPR without a barrier.

    I meant that if you do CPR, do it how you are trained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNG View Post
    First - you are protected so long as you do not act in a grossly negilent way.
    Performing a skill that you are not trained in/ altering your training. Is being negligent. I'll try to find a case law later...

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    don't be an idiot.....CCR until the engine/rescue arrives...there is no one on this planet other than close family that is worth getting a disease from, especially someone that, the outcome is most likely going to be very grim, those are the facts....

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    If you are CPR trained!, you can purchase on of these little doo-dads online. Great little invention that separates you from the dead guy...lol



    Fairly cheap @ $10 or less.

    Just do a google search for MDI CPR Microshield.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    Performing a skill that you are not trained in/ altering your training. Is being negligent. I'll try to find a case law later...
    I'd love to see the case law. If its true - then you may have to sit back and watch someone die to avoid a lawsuit if you don't have a barrier. (I imagine that lawsuit from doing nothing would be worse though)

    I stand by my statement. Compression only CPR is better than no CPR (witnessed or not). If you don't have a barrier, then this is your option. Do something constructive or do nothing.

    With a truck and gear - I'd take a BVM with supplemental O2, airway adjuncts and suction with an AED on the side. Oh, add another person to do the compressions.
    Last edited by TheFNG; 05-23-2008 at 06:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    Performing a skill that you are not trained in/ altering your training. Is being negligent. I'll try to find a case law later...
    ITS CPR YOU DINGLEBERRY!!
    Laypeople who watch Baywatch can do it!
    There is VERY little that one can do without equipment that could be negligent!
    Save your 10 bucks, you're gonna need it for gas, do CCR, and dial 911.

    We are not talking ACLS, needle decompression, manual defibrillation, or intubating here.
    C
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFNG View Post
    I'd love to see the case law. If its true - then you may have to sit back and watch someone die to avoid a lawsuit if you don't have a barrier. (I imagine that lawsuit from doing nothing would be worse though)

    I stand by my statement. Compression only CPR is better than no CPR (witnessed or not). If you don't have a barrier, then this is your option. Do something constructive or do nothing.

    With a truck and gear - I'd take a BVM with supplemental O2, airway adjuncts and suction with an AED on the side. Oh, add another person to do the compressions.
    You can't sue me if I have no PPE (and off duty). My safety comes first. Ergo, I am acting within my training as an EMT-(almost P).
    Damn right compression only CPR is better then nothing. A precordial thump for witnessed collapse then CPR is even better (if you are trained in it)
    I'll take a 3 man Rescue, with full ACLS medications, intubation kit, and new Zoll monitor/defib, with a "thumper" for compressions.
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    I NEVER SAID DO CPR WITHOUT A BARRIER.

    I only said to do CPR the way you are trained.
    I think we are at a misunderstanding, without a barrier then yes, do CCR instead.

    Clear things up?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExplorerLt1991 View Post
    Performing a skill that you are not trained in/ altering your training. Is being negligent. I'll try to find a case law later...
    Yeah, I never meant not to say to do CPR without a barrier.

    I meant that if you do CPR, do it how you are trained.
    Clear things up?
    Still stand by that statement if you are trained in CPR but not specifically CCR?

    If so - see my response.
    Last edited by TheFNG; 05-24-2008 at 10:17 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elswappo View Post
    The American Heart Assoc. are recomending compression only CPR now for the lay parson. Thats you if you didn't arrive of the responding unit, and if you did show up on the truck you have better tools to use then you mouth


    So your pushing blood without oxygen throughout the body for what reason? BTW im certified with red cross.

    And im not going to sit back like some frightened b*stard while someone dies in front of me.
    Apparently you would. That sets the bar.

    AND FFS PEOPLE IM CERTIFIED
    i asked what kind of breathing barrier not what are you in the mood to bit*h about now..

    Grow up and start learning the value of life you ignorant retards.
    Last edited by MustanGT1964; 05-27-2008 at 12:04 AM.
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    I would say anything that covers both the nose and mouth and has a one way valve.

    I guess I am a whacker becuase I have a microshield on my keychain. So be it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MustanGT1964 View Post
    So your pushing blood without oxygen throughout the body for what reason? BTW im certified with red cross.

    And im not going to sit back like some frightened b*stard while someone dies in front of me.
    Apparently you would. That sets the bar.

    AND FFS PEOPLE IM CERTIFIED
    i asked what kind of breathing barrier not what are you in the mood to bit*h about now..

    Grow up and start learning the value of life you ignorant retards.
    The Human body is quite inefficient at gas exchange. Your blood, even when 'used' still contains a far bit of O2. By moving the blood, you are providing some o2 that otherwise wouldn't be available. Its not as good as breathing normally but in a CPR/CCR situation, the AHA research found little difference for witnessed events and its a LOT easier to teach a layperson this method. Its also a lot safer for the lay person as well with respect to biohazard exposure.

    Now, if I, as a first responder, arrive at a scene without 'tools' do you recommend I stand by doing nothing, do CPR without barriers or do CCR until proper tools arrive to do CPR.

    I personally have a pocket mask I have from diving. If I have access to it, I'd use it. More likely though, I'd either be on the truck with better tools or without it. One way is using a BVM the other is CCR until more help arrives.

    As for the rest of your rant - its false bravado and foolish machoism.

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