1. #1

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    Default Rosenbauer - Comments?

    We are looking and considering a Rosenbauer Medium Rescue. Wondering what concerns or comments would be offered. A lot of manufacturers out there but in our little section of the world any insight is greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

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    Thumbs up

    Rosenbauer has really been aggressive in attacking their share of the market. As a result, they've seemed to be really good at getting what you need, how you need it. We're going through a process with them now, so I'll keep you posted. Our station back home also just took delivery of a Quint from Rosy and their warranty work seems quick and easy to get.


    Good luck.
    Ian "Eno" McLeod
    Senior Firefighter /EMT-A, A Shift
    HESD / OFD
    "To me, the charm of an encyclopedia is that it knows and I needn't."

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    Thumbs up

    We've got two General Division Engines and a General Division Heavy Rescue on order right now. I say General because there is a difference depending on what you want, need and can afford. We purchased Generals because we need the most robust model offered due to our high call volume.

    Great product, great guys!

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    I've had no personal experience with Rosenbauer other than looking over some while attending shows. They appear to build a good apparatus.

    The main thing to look for is a strong commitment from your dealer as they will be your point of contact for years to come.

    VanIsle,
    What are the differences between their Central and General divisions?

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    Deleted duplicate posting.
    Last edited by Command6; 05-29-2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason: Duplicate post

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    Reach out to Morristown, NJ for some good feedback. Their entire fleet is pretty much made up of Rosenbauer

    http://www.fdnytrucks.com/files/html...Morristown.htm

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    Never worked on one, but was offered a position as a sales rep in 2006 and did a bit of research. I was told that I would be pushing Generals. Central States is considered their lower end truck for departments that dont run much and dont have alot of money to spend. The body construction is different, with Central States using a "bolt on" design. Bottom line, as with any other manufacturer, some love them and some hate them.

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    I actually worked for a Rosenbauer dealer from 2005 to 2007, all I can say is they build a great product but like any custom manufacture there are/will be problems. They do an excellent job of correcting issues and giving you what you want. The thing that will continue to give Rosy a great edge is the global support of Rosenbauer International, both financially and from a design/innovation stand point. Good luck in your pursuit.
    Captain

    IACOJ Probie

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    Thank you all for the responses. We are looking and working towards a vehicle but just the way the process is going it tends to leave a bad taste in our mouths. We specced out a truck constructed of extrusions and 3/16 sheet, thinking that was "extruded' construction, more towards the general line. However when we bid, they came back with the "central" and stated that what our spec stated. True we did not specify "General" but we were trying to stay generic for outer bids. They came back with the lowest bid, mostly because everyone else bid a true "extruded" construction and now it is hard to argue and defend the other bids. The trucks seem pretty good but just the way this whole thing went down leaves you wondering.

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    Details and fit and finish are lacking in the Central division.
    BE A BACKBONE - NOT A JAWBONE

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    VanIsle,
    What are the differences between their Central and General divisions?
    Well before the partnership with Rosenbauer, Central States and General Safety were two completely different companies building completely different trucks and still build completely different trucks. The General division is the premium line built in both 12 gauge stainless steel and fully extruded 3/16" aluminum, both carry a 20 year transferable warranty. General also builds about 100 trucks a year, Central builds 800 a year. Central builds bodies in Galvaneal, stainless steel and a combination of extruded & formed aluminum. I think the Central warranty is 10 years.

    Did that answer your question?

    And no, I have no ties to Rosenbauer, just have thorough knowledge as an informed customer.
    Last edited by VanIsleEVT; 06-02-2008 at 10:46 PM.

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    Thanks VanIsle,

    Good information.

    According to the Rosenbauer site, they use huck-bolt fasteners to attach the body to the sub-frame. Do both Central and General do this?

    C6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ha11igan View Post
    Details and fit and finish are lacking in the Central division.
    Could you substaintate these claims please or at least add a little more specificity? Just curious.

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    No fit and finish issues with my three Centrals.Make sure you tell 'em to use locktite on the bolts.ONLY issue we've had is some small bolts and screws loosening up.Drop of Locktite and no more problem. T.C.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skipatrol8 View Post
    Could you substaintate these claims please or at least add a little more specificity? Just curious.

    During a tour of the Central facility in 2006, a friend of mine saw a worker cutting a hole in a truck body by hand, without a template, to mount a warning light. When asked about this, the worker said something to the effect that the hole would be covered by the light and no one would ever see it anyway. Could have been an isolated incident, but my friend decided not to deal with Central after that.

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    We just took delivery of a General rear-mount pumper and so far we are very happy with it. We went with the extruded aluminum body and it seems to be well built. We were at the factory prior to the tank being in our truck, so we were able to get inside the body and check out the sub-frame and pump. We spent 2 days at General on our inspection trip and they were excellent to work with. There are a few Central States pumpers around us and they have been good units. I think some of the early Centrals had a few bugs, but they now build a good truck.

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    DISCLAIMER: I work part time for a Rosenbauer dealer.

    The difference between a General and a Central body is $15-$20K. Central builds a basic body similar to many other manufacturers. The General body is built differently and warranted for 20 years. Write that into the spec and see how many bids you get. There is a lot more metal and labor in the General body. Everything is concealed behind the body panels, it's a much cleaner look and a much stronger body.

    Central certainly does a lot of trucks for smaller departments. They have a few larger cities, my home of Colorado Springs will be, with the delivery of six new interface pumpers, almost 100% CSFA. And the CSFD runs the hell out of them. They are willing to build more custom features on a truck than most custom builders. They are cheaper because the cost of doing business in South Dakota is cheaper and that gets passed to the customer. They have access to some different stuff because of the relationship with Rosenbauer.

    The huckbolts are on the new Revolution body. It a new style construction designed to keep costs down by being able to build the body quicker. My dealership has a demo being built on the Revolution, we'll see how that works near the end of summer, hopefully in time for IAFC.

    If the economy stays as it is, builders that can produce at lower costs are going to do OK. Many fire boards/city councils are going to really look at the cost of new trucks. It may become more difficult to defend the purchase of a truck that costs thousands more just because it's prettier.

    Fit and finish weren't the best when the company got busy fast. In my volly house I drive a Spartan/Central States, fit and finish are fine, and they get better every day.

    Fire 1625: I grew up in Western New York and contacted the dealer out there looking possibly to move. They seem like a good bunch of guys working hard in that market. If I can be of any more assistance, send me a e-mail: jim@maxfire.com

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    Thanks again for all the responses. You all have given me some confidence in pursueing the Rosenbauer line. Just first impressions were not solid. Now we have the wonderful task of working to get the truck down about 25k so we can be within our budget and still ahave a functioning unit that meets the company needs to serve our community. The sales group here seems very eager to get a truck into our company and with the, I think, inexperience and lack of knowledge of the gentleman we were originally working with, brought a bunch of small things to the table that made it uncomfortable but it is time to put that aside and move on.

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    C6,

    According to the Rosenbauer site, they use huck-bolt fasteners to attach the body to the sub-frame. Do both Central and General do this?
    Another difference between a Central and a General body is the sub-frame. Central uses a galvanized steel sub-frame where a General body is all aluminum and integrates it as part of the extruded body using full body width i-beams.See here http://www.rosenbaueramerica.com/pro...eral/index.php

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    Going through a lot of these posts, I don't see a lot of conversation regarding potential enviromental impacts on the subframe. We are located up in salt heaven when it comes winter time. Anyone have experience or insight regarding how the subframe of the central holds up to these conditions?

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    I believe the Central plant uses a hot dipped galvanized subframe with a lifetime warranty on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fire1625 View Post
    Going through a lot of these posts, I don't see a lot of conversation regarding potential enviromental impacts on the subframe. We are located up in salt heaven when it comes winter time. Anyone have experience or insight regarding how the subframe of the central holds up to these conditions?

    We have a 1991 Central states Rescue pumper 1000/1000 top mount Hale pump. The aluminum body has held up very well. Last time I was under the truck doing maintenance i gave the subframe and mounts a good looking over and all was well. We have not only road treatment chemicals but add in the salt air from being located on an island surrounded by the ocean.
    The overall fit & finish is good and the mechanical linkages still work fine, just like when it was delivered.
    We would consider them to bid a new truck for us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by firepiper1 View Post
    During a tour of the Central facility in 2006, a friend of mine saw a worker cutting a hole in a truck body by hand, without a template, to mount a warning light. When asked about this, the worker said something to the effect that the hole would be covered by the light and no one would ever see it anyway. Could have been an isolated incident, but my friend decided not to deal with Central after that.

    That is the type of thing I was talking about.
    BE A BACKBONE - NOT A JAWBONE

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    Wink Splitting bodies/paint issues

    I take it most of the responders have not asked a lot of New England based Fire Departments. A local repair center and paint center in Milford CT has working off a list of 21 units that need repainting, and he has worked on 10 stainless Centurion units that have had the rear bodies pull completely apart and had to weld the bodies back together, General builds a great piece of equipment, Central just a pumper 80k less than three other manufacturers, 80K less, same amount of clarifications and exceptions, where is the 80k, it has to be missing some where, the stainless body is 80% aluminum tradplate covered, good luck.

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    I take it most of the responders have not asked a lot of New England based Fire Departments
    Of course not....how can we speak for them. I think the responders thus far are speaking based on their own experience, which to me is what people want to hear.

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