1. #1
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    Default Fire Strategy Scenarios 2



    It's 1300hrs on Saturday, your are dispatched to the above fire. 1 occupant is believed to be still missing, unknown if entrapped. The area is a small suburban area with hydrants, one being a green-top at least 1,000ft away, and another red top 50ft.

    Units available:

    3 pumper/engines
    1 Rescue/Engine
    1 Aerial/Ladder Platform (no tank, but is piped for master stream)
    1 command
    1 BLS only unit

    this was in the regular forum..sorry to all and the admin for the mistake.
    "Courage is the resistance to fear, the mastery of fear, not the lack of fear." Mark Twain
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    Two pumpcans and an axe.

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    This is a bit tough to tell from the photo, seems there should be more smoke/flames. That said:

    Fire on the second floor and attic, seems well involved. Possibly already self vented through the roof. I'd need to do a 360 to really make a sound decision.

    The construction is lightweight with some fabricated lumber. Won't hold up well to this kind of fire. Large open area at the front door.

    Probably go defensive on this... like I said, hard to say from this picture.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    Gotta agree with ChiefKN on this one. This roof will burn off shortly and collapse into the 2nd floor. Portable master stream/2.5 into the front window aimed at the ceiling and get into that attic space. Others in 2nd floor windows with same mission depending on water supply. Make it behave in the attic and 2nd floor and we may consider going in.

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    As Chief said, 2nd floor and attic seem well involved. Anything on the 2nd floor would be a recovery, rather than a rescue from the appearance of conditions.

    I'd have a 2 1/2 hitting the front window, assign the truck crew to VES division one for the missing occupant. If the searches come up empty, or conditions worsen, I'd go full defensive. Set the ladder up, master stream operations. Simply stated it doesn't appear that you're saving the 2nd floor of that house.

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    Based on the picture, what concerns me the most is the location of the fire and the type of construction. The fire is definatly in the attic space already, and has also involved the 2nd floor, since the large window above the front door has flames pushing from it and the other side of that window is likely a large foyer overlooking the 2nd floor hallway and staircase.

    That being said collapse of this roof is pretty much imminent since its likely a truss roof, normally I think I would go just straight up defensive if I pulled up on this, but with a report of people inside I think I would try to attempt some kind of 1st floor search while another crew puts a 2 1/2 through the large window over the front door. My district has hundreds of houses this size/type of construction and I've seen them go from looking like this to being a pile of toothpicks in the blink of an eye so this is defnatly a situation of risk alot to save alot, risk little to save a little.
    NJ FFII/EMT-B

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    My suggestion is this:

    If anyone is going to take this seriously, lets start using actual fireground photos of actual buildings that are really on fire.

    These made up things are just to unrealistic or to hard to interperet.


    See the difference?!



    Last edited by MemphisE34a; 06-09-2008 at 04:37 PM.
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    "Everyone goes home" is the mantra for the pussification of the modern, American fire service.


    Comments made are my own. They do not represent the official position or opinion of the Fire Department or the City for which I am employed. In fact, they are normally exactly the opposite.

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    It's a very un-uniform shaped roof for manufactured trusses. I'm sure the parallel chord between first and second floors is a truss...not so sure on the attic.

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    I like the idea of using actual photos.

    What would also add to it is if it's your jurisdiction, if you could provide the size up, water sources, etc..

    Then later in the thread what tactics were used and how it went.

    If the pics not from your department, then let's not name towns. No need to bash a department when the facts are all not known.
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

    "The last thing I want to do is hurt you. But it's still on the list."

    "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water."

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    OK well the second floor and attic look heavily involved, so like previously stated anyone up there is gone. Basic surround and drown with 2 1/2s and the TL working as much of the exterior as it can reach. Looks like new construction here (i.e truss)..so I'm not willing to jeapordize anyone by sending them into a well involved potential collapse without knowing for sure if I can get to anyone trapped in there. There's a hell of alot of fire up on that second floor and the whole attic seems to be well involved.
    1st engine-a couple of 2 1/2s for exterior operations
    2nd engine - water supply and feed the TL
    3rd Engine - water supply and support of 1 & 2
    TL - interior search and rescue if at all possible - defensive fire attack
    Rescue -utility control and RIT
    DC - CP in front yard
    BLS stand-by as needed

    As for the "real" photos;
    This house seems to be set back from the street, behind another so all lines would have to come in from the street. Let the DC have the space in front of the house.
    1st engine -2 1/2 to the front door. Any visible fire I would hit quick from outside and then interior with the 2 1/2
    2nd engine - water supply, then another 2 1/2 as back-up line
    3rd Engine - RIT
    Rescue - Primary search of the right side (uninvolved side) of the house
    TRK Co. Ladder the roof and uninvolved section of the house with ground ladders, vent roof and utility control
    DC - Look, listen and control scene..CP in driveway in front of house
    BLS - standby as needed

    Take care
    and as always
    Stay Safe

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