1. #51
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    OK guys I figured out why the guy was driving the way he did. He didn't have a choice he used up all his air blowing the air horns and didn't have any left over for his brakes.
    Another scary concept is that they HAVE dash cameras and they STILL drive that way. I don't think the youngsters care at least not until it happens to them.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgiaEVT View Post
    OK guys I figured out why the guy was driving the way he did. He didn't have a choice he used up all his air blowing the air horns and didn't have any left over for his brakes.
    Another scary concept is that they HAVE dash cameras and they STILL drive that way. I don't think the youngsters care at least not until it happens to them.
    I hope you're being sarcastic there in the first bit. Because if you run out of brakes, regardless if you're going to a code, or a building fire or a cat up a tree, that's when you make your best attempt to stop the vehicle and place it out of service.

    As for the 'dash camera' - watch another video. It's somebody's personal camcorder wedged into the spot between the dash and the windshield. During another hot run, it repeatedly falls over and somebody (presumably the driver) keeps tilting it back up.
    --jay.

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    I do think that EVT is being sarcastic -- I'd like the presume that an EVT would know that if all of the air had been used on the air horns (which means the limiting valve didn't work) that the brakes would lock up, not cause the vehicle to run amok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoxAlarm187 View Post
    I do think that EVT is being sarcastic -- I'd like the presume that an EVT would know that if all of the air had been used on the air horns (which means the limiting valve didn't work) that the brakes would lock up, not cause the vehicle to run amok.
    Actually, if the air system is plumbed to meet DOT, the tank that the horns draw air from would be isolated by a limiting valve at somewhere between 60 and 90 psi. That way the rest of the system still has plenty of air to make normal brake applications.

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    Yes I was being sarcastic. And no I didn't realize that it was a camcorder.

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    Every appliance in our brigade is equipped with a forward facing camera (it's an identical model to that used by police traffic cars, just without the speed measuring equipment). I personally think it's a good idea...as has been said above, if you're not doing anything wrong, you've nothing to fear. It's just as good for proving you innocent as for screwing you over.
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    Exclamation The Video Is Modified

    The video is running at a accelerated(sp?) pace. The movements of the unit versus the surrounding stationary objects make it look very fast, but compared to other moving objects it does not. Even though it looks like he is flying it takes forever to overtake other moving traffic. At the intersections if the video was rolling at a more accurate speed I think he would be rolling the lights not blowing them.

    However why do you want to post something that makes it look like your department acts like that anyway???!?!?!?

  8. #58
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by 4bugsdad View Post
    The video is running at a accelerated(sp?) pace. The movements of the unit versus the surrounding stationary objects make it look very fast, but compared to other moving objects it does not. Even though it looks like he is flying it takes forever to overtake other moving traffic. At the intersections if the video was rolling at a more accurate speed I think he would be rolling the lights not blowing them.

    However why do you want to post something that makes it look like your department acts like that anyway???!?!?!?
    The audio seems to run at the right speed, and it fits in with what you see on screen (engine revving when he takes off).
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4bugsdad View Post
    The video is running at a accelerated(sp?) pace.
    No, the video is not modified or accelerated. The audio matches the video exactly and without distortion, which would not be possible even if the video was "sped up" and then the audio was dubbed back over top of it.

    They really ARE driving through the traffic lights that fast (take a look at the original video at 3:01).

    I can assure you that this happens, I've spent time in PG and have gotten to see how some of the FD's in the county drive to emergencies.
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    Default Lack of Frontal Lobes in Ritchie

    INCOMPREHENSIBLE!!

    I am in shock that folks claiming to be "Rescuers" have such a blatant lack of regard for human safety!

    Scientific studies indicate (this is true) that the males of the species really don't have fully developed Frontal Lobes (that part in charge of insight and forethought, result-and-consequence kind of stuff) until AT LEAST 21 years of age. Apparently in Ritchie it is somewhat older than that!

    Well, I too have logged my piece onto YouTube, for what it's worth but Dang! That sucks.
    A brother in spirit if no longer in body ...

  11. #61
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    Default Engine 371 crashes into woods

    Responsing on a shed fire Thursday, August 14. Ran into woods. No one injured. 2001 Seagrave.

    Quote Originally Posted by TJ
    It was a wild ride, yes we are all OK, and yes the fire truck is quite damaged. The "totaled" or "not totaled" decision is gonna depend on the insurance adjusters. Before the rumors start, it was a VERY experienced driver behind the wheel, we werent speeding, etc etc. It was a matter of physics.
    http://www.thewatchdesk.com/forum/sh...328#post502328

    Also, a response last summer to a possible cardiac arrest:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QYGhZFaUz0
    Edit to add: The cardiac arrest youtube is what wconlon53 used to start this thread.
    Last edited by MikeWard; 08-16-2008 at 12:40 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeWard View Post
    Responsing on a shed fire Thursday, August 14. Ran into woods. No one injured. 2001 Seagrave.



    http://www.thewatchdesk.com/forum/sh...328#post502328

    Also, a response last summer to a possible cardiac arrest:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QYGhZFaUz0
    That's the first time I've heard a "very qualified" driver using physics for a excuse that caused a crash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wconlon53 View Post
    That's the first time I've heard a "very qualified" driver using physics for a excuse that caused a crash.
    Well certainly it was physics! Actually, it was a failure to obey the laws of physics.

    The laws of physics are perfect and NEVER change. This is because the source of the laws of physics is way above, and far beyond control by the Congress or any other legislative body or regulatory agency.

    What does change is our understanding of the laws of physics and how we apply them.

    In this case someone failed to comply with the laws of physics so physics did what they invariably will do - punish the violator.

    Know and obey the laws of physics. Stay safe out there, everyone goes home!

  14. #64
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    Sounds more like the physics of testosterone to me

    CE11 is correct you can try but you will never change the basic laws of physics. Exceed them and you WILL be history!

    I wonder if their insurance broker has seen the videos on you tube? My guess would be no or else they wouldn't be insuring them. Definite high risk operators.

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    Quote Originally Posted by islandfire03 View Post
    Sounds more like the physics of testosterone to me

    CE11 is correct you can try but you will never change the basic laws of physics. Exceed them and you WILL be history!

    I wonder if their insurance broker has seen the videos on you tube? My guess would be no or else they wouldn't be insuring them. Definite high risk operators.
    I know I'd like to see the video of their off road adventure.

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    I notice the video has now been removed, must have a case of the guilts, or all the adults that posted a comment saying who bad the driving was finally got to him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pumper8032 View Post
    I notice the video has now been removed, must have a case of the guilts, or all the adults that posted a comment saying who bad the driving was finally got to him.
    Hopefully you had gotten to see it before it was taken down.

    Good to see you back in there. Have you quite recovered from your vacation here? How was the rest of it after leaving here?

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    This was posted over at www.thewatchdesk.com a couple of days ago. They're talking about the first video (not the Foote St one)....

    USER: pgtick20

    It amazes me how many people assume the fire truck is doing 80mph just because theyve watched a video. The fact of the matter is the engine in that video wont go over 65 mph. And another fact is that the camera angle severly limits what the viewer can see compared to the driver. I can attest to what happened in that video because I was driving. I can also tell you that if you think that video is bad dont come ride with some other folks Ive seen driving other apparatus in this county.

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  19. #69
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    Angry Driving like a bully

    I agree with TJ's point that the camera does not do justice to the driver's field of view. And I may concede that the speed is really hard to estimate on a video. I will however continue to state that you can get folks to listen to and respect your sirens without threatening to crush them beneath your wheels! The videos in question (now removed?) were really quite amazing, no perceivable slowing at red lights, nearly taking out that bus (on the Foote Street one) and using your Engine as a forced entry tool between oncoming cars! Just increadible! And then, you post this poor excuse for apparatus operation as some kind of medal of valor??

    Now, I never said that these drivers weren't elsewhere in the country. I never said any department I've ever associated with was perfect and always as careful as they could be ... but I have MANY other videos on my YouTube Favorites that show MUCH more appropriate driving techniques.

    I just find it some kind of justice that:
    1- We were discussing these videos,
    2- They have since been taken down,
    3- Right after that very apparatus was in a wreck.
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  20. #70
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    Giving people a hard time because they say you were doing 80 when you were only doing 65 = one thing.

    Not even letting off the accelerator as you barrel thru red lights = SOMETHING ELSE ENTIRELY.

    Finding is for the plaintiff. Next case, Your Honor.
    --jay.

  21. #71
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    Default Shocked

    Well no one saw that ending for them . I am just glad no one was badly hurt. Maybe a wake up?
    The opinions are mine alone, and do not represent the department I am with, or any firefighters I work with.

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by seagravedriver View Post
    Well no one saw that ending for them . I am just glad no one was badly hurt. Maybe a wake up?
    I think we all saw that ending coming at some point, maybe their insurer got wind of the videos and passed a few comments along to the county bosses. Hopefully these clowns are no longer driving fire trucks. The only good thing to come from this is they didn't kill any innocent civilians.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by pumper8032 View Post
    I notice the video has now been removed, must have a case of the guilts, or all the adults that posted a comment saying who bad the driving was finally got to him.
    That's one of the things we discuss in the Public Relations Class I teach. Just because you, as a firefighter, thinks it's cool what will the public reaction be. Too many people don't think before they put things on their website and it comes back to bite them time and time again.
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  24. #74
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    Default Another way not to drive a F/T:

    10-10-2008:

    ST. LOUIS -- Eight St. Louis firefighters were injured in the collision of two fire engines at Martin Luther King Drive and Taylor Avenue early this afternoon.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW VIDEO here - >

    http://www.wusa9.com/news/columnist/...ion-of-st.html
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    story and video here:

    http://cms.firehouse.com/content/art...Id=46&id=61266
    Last edited by 1OLDTIMER; 10-22-2008 at 07:41 AM.
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    When I see all the defensive remarks made about this ongoing issue on this & other forums, it is clear that it wouldn't even take a law school graduate to nail drivers to the wall.

    "Everybody else does it."

    "Do you think we're the only ones who do that?"

    "We've always done it that way."

    "Whaddya mean 80? It won't go faster than 65!"

    "Well, if they hadn't been there, I wouldn't have hit 'em!"

    "You weren't there so you don't know!"

    And on and on.

    Killing innocent folks hasn't changed the mindset.

    Financial settlements haven't changed it.

    Drivers who've talked to others about the incidents they've been involved in hasn't changed it.

    Accurate statistics haven't changed it.

    Screaming administrators haven't changed it.

    It won't improve until someone (whom I have yet to meet) is able to drive home (no pun intended) the subject of "due regard for the safety of others" such that the mindset changes from "speed" to "get there quickly but as safely as possible."

    Jack Ramsey
    Fletcher, NC

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