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    Default Live ammo at fires...

    The county my department serves has a lot of hunters and firearm owners. Several structure fires we have responded to has either live ammo or gun powder in the home and we are fighting fire with rounds going off. But I was always told that unless the round is chambered inside a firearm that there is little danger of being hit by a bullet or fragments. However I read today on firehouse where a firefighter was injured by ammunition at a fire. So is there really a danger of live rounds or the boxes of gunpowder used to reload ammo?

    Thanks for any information. Stay safe out there.

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    I've heard the same thing about the ammunition being ok unless in the barrel. However, even when the ammo may just be lying around, it still explodes, similiar to a small firecracker, in my limited experience during my teenage years. Depeding on the size of the round/amount of gunpowder, I'm sure that it could injure you if you were close enough to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KevinFFVFD View Post
    The county my department serves has a lot of hunters and firearm owners. Several structure fires we have responded to has either live ammo or gun powder in the home and we are fighting fire with rounds going off. But I was always told that unless the round is chambered inside a firearm that there is little danger of being hit by a bullet or fragments. However I read today on firehouse where a firefighter was injured by ammunition at a fire. So is there really a danger of live rounds or the boxes of gunpowder used to reload ammo?

    Thanks for any information. Stay safe out there.
    We have the same thing, many hunters in our area, its always a good time when you hear them popping off but I have never been hit by any fragments or heard of anyone being injured.
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    Ill be rescuing it! Especially if its 40 45 gap or 5.56!

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    The exploding ammuntion that injured the firefighter almost certainly exploded while in the chamber of a weapon.

    In more simple terms, the gun went off.

    Hearing rounds cook off doesn't really scare me. It does, however, always makes me jump.

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    I've been hit with shotgun shells during a fire in a sporting goods store. They were tumbling through the air & not at any high speed. It was more like "Wow, that was cool". Not something you see every day. I felt at least two hit me, but it wasn't anything hard, or something that created an injury.

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    I seem to remember a story in Firehouse many years ago about a chief that pulled up in front of a well involved SFD. As he got out and was donning his PPE, he started taking gunfire to his vehicle. After it was all over, they figured out that there was a WWII era M1 Carbine in the house with a loaded magazine and the muzzle pointing to the street. The chambered round cooked off first, and continued to cycle until the magazine was empty. There were pics of the chief's car with several bullet holes in it.
    I wondered how the rounds managed to delay detonation while in the magazine, and fired when they got in the chamber. It would seem to me that the more metal around the barrel/chamber would have withstood the heat longer than the lightweight metal of the magazine, and once a round went off in the magazine, the magazine would have failed.
    One thing to keep in mind is that not only do we find firearms in homes. Many people carry a loaded handgun in the glovebox of their vehicle, and the muzzle may be pointed in any direction.
    I've been around many ammunition detonations and never been concerned about the rounds that aren't in the chamber. Physics tells us that the bullet is heavier than the casing, and so the casing will be propelled by the burning of the powder. However, I did see a very impressive detonation of a quantity of black powder a primitive weapons enthusiast had in his home that was on fire. Raised the roof.

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    Shotgun shells are designed to just expand and burn, not explode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    45 gap
    Good luck finding much of that!

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    It is the gases that expand to create pressure inside the gun barrel which propels the bullet to lethal speeds. Without a barrel to build up pressure, it would be nothing more than shrapnel from fireworks.

    Had it happen to me a few times. Makes you jump and get nervous about it but it won't hurt ya. Just makes it a bit more interesting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffvic View Post
    Good luck finding much of that!
    Even too buy! Luckily NYSP uses it so its common, but not everywhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyirons2 View Post
    Even too buy! Luckily NYSP uses it so its common, but not everywhere.
    I guess I may sound stupid here but if you have any Gander Mountain stores near you they carry 45 GAP. (just trying to picture Gander Mountain in New York City)

    I guess the simple solution though would be to just go buy a nice 45 ACP. Something like a 1911 A1 Springfield Loaded. It has a ton of the bells and whistles on it from the factory and 45 ACP ammo is common as hell around here. But then again I may be a little prejudiced because I am very partial to 1911 A1's. Any design works that well for almost 100 years has got to be good enough for me.

    Nothing wrong with Glocks either by the way. I am just not a fan of them at this point.
    Last edited by FyredUp; 06-08-2008 at 11:20 AM.

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    Place by me is much much cheaper than Gander Mountain, Collector Rifle and Ammo, www.ammo4guns.com No one around comes near the prices on guns that they offer. And they have it all too! For common ammo, no one beats wal-mart, unless you want self defence ammo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    It is the gases that expand to create pressure inside the gun barrel which propels the bullet to lethal speeds. Without a barrel to build up pressure, it would be nothing more than shrapnel from fireworks.

    Had it happen to me a few times. Makes you jump and get nervous about it but it won't hurt ya. Just makes it a bit more interesting.
    Jason's right.

    If you want to understand why the round won't fly, look at a football. It goes a lot farther when you throw a spinning spiral.

    Every weapon that uses a cartridge (not shotguns generally) has a "rifled barrel". That means there are grooves in the barrel that spin the bullet as it travels down the barrel. When it comes out, it is a spiral. If you don't have a rifled barrel, I don't care what anyone says, the bullet will not travel more than a foot from the casing.
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    The reason why a round of ammunition will not project when subjected to fire is not because its not in a rifled barrel. It is due to a simple law of physics, Newton's third law: law of reciprocal actions. Every action has an equal opposite reaction. What does this mean? It means that when a cartridge in a firearm is fired the force that is the opposite equal reaction is the force that is absorbed by the action which cancels the reaction allowing the bullet to be projected. The other action that occurs from the cartridge firing is the opening of the action to chamber another cartridge. Rifling does nothing but make the bullet travel with a more linear trajectory.

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    You have to remember that it can be relative to the size of the round and the associated powder charge. Mythbusters demonstrated that on one of their shows when the ordinary rounds they placed in a fire kind of popped with little effect. Then they put a .50 BMG in the fire, and it went off with like a small pipe bomb. Luckily, I doubt many of us will run into much of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeWendtCFI View Post
    Jason's right.

    If you want to understand why the round won't fly, look at a football. It goes a lot farther when you throw a spinning spiral.

    Every weapon that uses a cartridge (not shotguns generally) has a "rifled barrel". That means there are grooves in the barrel that spin the bullet as it travels down the barrel. When it comes out, it is a spiral. If you don't have a rifled barrel, I don't care what anyone says, the bullet will not travel more than a foot from the casing.
    In the early days muskets and muzzle loaders were not rifled but still managed to put lead downrange several times further than a foot. . . .I think it was at least three feet!

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    Good God there is a lot of science in the last couple of posts!!!!


    I say we grab a twelve pack, a box of shells, and a can of gasoline to go do a few experiments in the name of science!!

    I'll drive!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Good God there is a lot of science in the last couple of posts!!!!


    I say we grab a twelve pack, a box of shells, and a can of gasoline to go do a few experiments in the name of science!!

    I'll drive!
    Sounds like a lot of fun. I'll go, but with the cost of ammo and the cost of gas...I'll buy the twelve pack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Good God there is a lot of science in the last couple of posts!!!!


    I say we grab a twelve pack, a box of shells, and a can of gasoline to go do a few experiments in the name of science!!

    I'll drive!
    Science? We call that a typical Saturday night around here!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dickey View Post
    Good God there is a lot of science in the last couple of posts!!!!


    I say we grab a twelve pack, a box of shells, and a can of gasoline to go do a few experiments in the name of science!!

    I'll drive!
    I like the way you think...

    I'll bring the venison jerky and we'll make this a true redneck olympic event!
    I am now a past chief and the views, opinions, and comments are mine and mine alone. I do not speak for any department or in any official capacity. Although, they would be smart to listen to me.

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    Oh Chief.....you just made me hungry for venison jerky!! Mine was gone by the time New Years rolled around.

    Give me time to line the back of my truck with plastic so we can have a hot tub party too!!








    I think we are going to need more beer!
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    I think you went to my school Dickey....Anyone for a keg stand?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frmboybuck View Post
    I think you went to my school Dickey....Anyone for a keg stand?
    Holy Lord.....my past is catching up with me! I was the keg stand king, we even made a crown for the best one out of Pabst and Shlitz cans...

    Anyone remember the Party Balls?
    Jason Knecht
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